Leia Discrempincy

[TyboJames]

This is an old topic, and I'm sure it has come up before...

 

What is everyone's theory on why Leia reminisces about her mother to Luke?

 

This is my take. Leia is force sensitive at this time, but doesn't realize it. In the Empire Strikes Back novel/movie (can't exactly recall,) Yoda tells Luke something along the line of through the Force, you will see friends and loved ones. Wish I could find the exact line. This to me means that you can draw upon images and visions of people using the Force. I believe Leia has this ability, and has done it with Padme, and because she is untrained in the Force, she mistakes them for memories.

Edited July 2, 2013 by TyboJames

[AlexDougherty]

The scene were Leia reminisces to luke was before the Prequel trilogy was made, so it's probably just continuity error.

 

Or possibly she was remembering her adoptive mother, especially if her adoptive mother died, and her adoptive father remarried (after all loads of people die in Star wars for no real reason (Exile for example)).

[TyboJames]

Breha was her adoptive mother and died after the Battle of Yavin.

[Skodan]

Its probably just a continuity error.

 

just like how leia kisses luke, and then in ep. 6 she says somehow she always knew they were related *yuck*

[Beniboybling]

I don't really understand the discrepancy, to me it seems very simple.

 

Leia, a Force-sensitive child, had an image of her mother imprinted on her brain, the memory retained through the Force. After all Padme did look at her children before she died. Alternatively she simply saw her mother through visions of some kind, but that seems more unlikely.

 

This is why Leia knows so little about her mother, only very vague feelings or 'images', nothing about her being a Senator or anything like that. And in reality, who is sad all the time? Padme certainly wasn't. It is a very peculiar description. However if the above is true it makes perfect sense, Leia's image of Padme would be a beautiful woman and loving mother, but with a broken heart. So the description: "Very beautiful. Kind, but...sad" works perfectly.

[TheronFett]

Plot error, nothing more, nothing less. There are lots of them in the movies, even the original trilogy.

 

Leia has the plans to the Death Star. Instead of, I dunno, making copies, sending it out over the holo, she stuffs them into a droid and hopes it survives the harsh desert planet below? Mkay?

 

Luke keeps the Skywalker name and grows up on Anakin's home planet. And Vader couldn't find him? Huh?

 

Stormtroopers: the galaxy's premier soldiers. Wear armor made of paper and can't hit a stationary target from 5 feet away. Yet their blaster fire is "so precise". Alrighty then.

 

Luke's Jedi training. Okay, sure he's awesome later on. But what takes other Jedi a lifetime, Luke does...at Yoda's Weekend Express Training Program for Farmboy Whiners?

 

Yoda vs. Sideous: The old green guy was matching Palps blow for blow, but just kinda gives up and leaves. Maybe he had to go to the bathroom?

 

Leia watches her homeworld get vaporized and shrugs it off like a boss. Later on, she's just laying in her cell posing like a Playmate, waiting to be rescued. No tears, no vow of revenge, nothing. 2 billion people killed in an instant, and the feisty princess nary bats an eyelash.

[Beniboybling]

Plot error, nothing more, nothing less. There are lots of them in the movies, even the original trilogy.

 

Leia has the plans to the Death Star. Instead of, I dunno, making copies, sending it out over the holo, she stuffs them into a droid and hopes it survives the harsh desert planet below? Mkay?

 

Luke keeps the Skywalker name and grows up on Anakin's home planet. And Vader couldn't find him? Huh?

 

Stormtroopers: the galaxy's premier soldiers. Wear armor made of paper and can't hit a stationary target from 5 feet away. Yet their blaster fire is "so precise". Alrighty then.

 

Luke's Jedi training. Okay, sure he's awesome later on. But what takes other Jedi a lifetime, Luke does...at Yoda's Weekend Express Training Program for Farmboy Whiners?

 

Yoda vs. Sideous: The old green guy was matching Palps blow for blow, but just kinda gives up and leaves. Maybe he had to go to the bathroom?

 

Leia watches her homeworld get vaporized and shrugs it off like a boss. Later on, she's just laying in her cell posing like a Playmate, waiting to be rescued. No tears, no vow of revenge, nothing. 2 billion people killed in an instant, and the feisty princess nary bats an eyelash.

Lol, you have some points with these ones. But this really isn't a plot hole. I don't see why people see it that way when I see it as a plot filler. Allow me to explain.

 

We are told in the Original Trilogy that Leia's mother is beautiful, kind but sad, that she died when Leia was very young and that all Leia can remember are images and feelings. That seems a little odd. Firstly who is sad all the time? Did she suffer from depression? And secondly, surely you would remember more about your own mother? I dunno, what her name was? Were she lived? What she did for a living? Sure you might not remember what she looked like and her personality but come on. I know more about grandparents I've never met! Alone, it doesn't really make sense.

 

Then its revealed in RotS that Padme died in child birth from a broken heart and Leia only saw her when she was newborn. This pretty much clears up all the above. She couldn't have known anything about her, because she was a baby, and when she was adopted straight after, likely with the instructions not to tell her about her real mother. She was very sad because she had a broken heart, and that's all Leia knew of her. Leia only has 'images' and 'feelings' of her because she was too young to remember anything else, and likely felt her sadness and retained memories of her through the Force. You know the mystical energy that surrounds us, penetrates us and binds the galaxy together? Yeah, stuff like that can happen.

 

Plot hole filled, not made.

[Skodan]

Luke keeps the Skywalker name and grows up on Anakin's home planet. And Vader couldn't find him? Huh?

 

you know, i never thought of this, he should have been Luke Lars to better protect him

[Beniboybling]

you know, i never thought of this, he should have been Luke Lars to better protect him

Well, there are like trillions and trillions of people in the galaxy. I doubt Vader's going to get a call saying some kid called Skywalker is living on Tatooine. And I think Vader never visited that planet because of the memories it held.

 

Let's also remember Vader didn't even know he had a son. So its like looking for a needle in the haystack except you aren't even looking just waiting for it to jump out at you.

 

Of course, when Luke appeared on the galactic stage word did get out.

[TheronFett]

RE: Leia's memories of her mother.

 

I can buy that she remembers Padme from birth, being a force sensitive and all. Sure. But that was a moment in time that took exactly 2 seconds. What about her adopted mother who raised her? Maybe Leia knew she was adopted, I don't know enough about the EU to speculate on that. Did the Organa's ever tell Leia that she wasn't really their daughter? It just seems that a lifetime of memories compared to a 2 second glimpse of Padme, doesn't fit.

 

Not to mention that Luke, who was born first and far more attuned to the force, has no recollection of Padme.

Edited July 3, 2013 by TheronFett

[Wolfninjajedi]

Plot error, nothing more, nothing less. There are lots of them in the movies, even the original trilogy.

 

Leia has the plans to the Death Star. Instead of, I dunno, making copies, sending it out over the holo, she stuffs them into a droid and hopes it survives the harsh desert planet below? Mkay?

 

 

Stormtroopers: the galaxy's premier soldiers. Wear armor made of paper and can't hit a stationary target from 5 feet away. Yet their blaster fire is "so precise". Alrighty then.

 

Luke's Jedi training. Okay, sure he's awesome later on. But what takes other Jedi a lifetime, Luke does...at Yoda's Weekend Express Training Program for Farmboy Whiners?

 

Yoda vs. Sideous: The old green guy was matching Palps blow for blow, but just kinda gives up and leaves. Maybe he had to go to the bathroom?

 

1. Her ship was being boarded, doubt she would have time to make copies. Besides who is to say the Imperials weren't monitoring the holonet? They could intercept the plans if she decided to do that.

 

2. Main characters have plot armor, so of course Stormtroopers are gonna suck at aiming. Though even then its shown that they are good by the two scenes on Endor wounding Leia and breaking R2.

 

3. No, Luke's training with Yoda was more then a weekend it was actually about a month or so(maybe weeks). After that, he self trained...and remember Luke had a ridiculous learning curve much like Anakin had, make no mistake Luke was a powerful Jedi Knight during the movie timeframe.

 

4. He couldn't win.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

RE: Leia's memories of her mother.

 

I can buy that she remembers Padme from birth, being a force sensitive and all. Sure. But that was a moment in time that took exactly 2 seconds. What about her adopted mother who raised her? Maybe Leia knew she was adopted, I don't know enough about the EU to speculate on that. Did the Organa's ever tell Leia that she wasn't really their daughter? It just seems that a lifetime of memories compared to a 2 second glimpse of Padme, doesn't fit.

 

Not to mention that Luke, who was born first and far more attuned to the force, has no recollection of Padme.

Well Leia says her mother died when she was very young, so that means she must have known she was adopted to know that. I doubt they ever told her anything about her though - else she would have imparted that to Luke.

 

And yes it was only a few seconds, but that's enough time for an imprint to be made on her memory through the Force. And explains why her memory of her mother is just images and feelings. And that's it, no life time of memories. She's beautiful, kind, but sad, that's all she remembers. Pretty fleeting to say the least.

 

Why did Luke not remember? *shrug* I wouldn't call it a plot hole but more of a plot device, if Luke remembered his mother as well then the big reveal would be spoiled. And you can't really call it an error because Luke and Leia were twins, so even before the prequels were made it was still established they were born from the same woman and therefore should have had similar experiences.

[TheronFett]

3. No, Luke's training with Yoda was more then a weekend it was actually about a month or so(maybe weeks). After that, he self trained...and remember Luke had a ridiculous learning curve much like Anakin had, make no mistake Luke was a powerful Jedi Knight during the movie timeframe.

 

Okay, I can buy the others. Especially the part about plot armor, bad guys can't aim in any movie/tv show ever, but the heroes can shoot from the hip and kill 10 with a single shot. I get it. But this one above...no.

 

Given that Luke lands on Dagobah just about the same time that the others land on Bespin, the time frame is established. As the plot progresses, Vader and Fett have according to Lando, "arrived shortly before you did", and set the trap for Skywalker. At best, this all takes place over a couple days. To stretch it beyond that is really pushing the boundaries of reality. Even sci-fi movie reality.

 

We're not talking about Luke's self-training between ANH and ESB, or even ESB and ROTJ. We're talking about going from Obi-Wan's Express Training and force one-liners on the Falcon en route to Alderaan, and Yoda's Express Training on Dagobah being Luke's only formal training that prepares him to face Vader. Granted, Luke gets his *** kicked (and loses a hand) by Vader who barely puts forth any effort, but still.

Edited July 3, 2013 by TheronFett

[Aurbere]

Okay, I can buy the others. Especially the part about plot armor, bad guys can't aim in any movie/tv show ever, but the heroes can shoot from the hip and kill 10 with a single shot. I get it. But this one above...no.

 

Given that Luke lands on Dagobah just about the same time that the others land on Bespin, the time frame is established. As the plot progresses, Vader and Fett have according to Lando, "arrived shortly before you did", and set the trap for Skywalker. At best, this all takes place over a couple days. To stretch it beyond that is really pushing the boundaries of reality. Even sci-fi movie reality.

 

We're not talking about Luke's self-training between ANH and ESB, or even ESB and ROTJ. We're talking about going from Obi-Wan's Express Training and force one-liners on the Falcon en route to Alderaan, and Yoda's Express Training on Dagobah being Luke's only formal training that prepares him to face Vader. Granted, Luke gets his *** kicked (and loses a hand) by Vader who barely puts forth any effort, but still.

 

Remember that the Falcon had no hyperdrive, meaning they had to fly the old fashioned way.

[TheronFett]

Remember that the Falcon had no hyperdrive, meaning they had to fly the old fashioned way.

 

A valid point, sir. Touche.

 

So we have to assume that Boba Fett, who was tracking them after the Falcon floated away with the garbage dump, had the greatest sense of intuition ever and arrived at the Cloud City ahead of them to lay the trap?

[Aurbere]

A valid point, sir. Touche.

 

So we have to assume that Boba Fett, who was tracking them after the Falcon floated away with the garbage dump, had the greatest sense of intuition ever and arrived at the Cloud City ahead of them to lay the trap?

 

Or he figured out where they were headed based on their trajectory and alerted Vader, who then arrived shortly before they did and set a trap.

 

We should also remember that Han and Leia were on Bespin for some time before the trap.

[Beniboybling]

Remember that the Falcon had no hyperdrive, meaning they had to fly the old fashioned way.

...the old fashioned way being floating through space and hoping to reach your destination. You need a hyperdrive to traverse hyperspace. Edited July 3, 2013 by Beniboybling

[TheronFett]

Or he figured out where they were headed based on their trajectory and alerted Vader, who then arrived shortly before they did and set a trap.

 

We should also remember that Han and Leia were on Bespin for some time before the trap.

 

Remember, Han was searching for nearby systems they could go to:

 

Han: "What's this? Lando?"

Leia: "The Lando system?"

Han: "Lando's not a system, he's a man."

 

Even under propulsion power (sans hyperdrive), nearby implies that it didn't take them long to get there. It's not like they were just sputtering through space for days, weeks, or months on end for Luke to perform his expedited Jedi training. It's all speculative how long Luke's training with Yoda actually took, but I'll always hold to the premise that it was merely a few days at best.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Okay, I can buy the others. Especially the part about plot armor, bad guys can't aim in any movie/tv show ever, but the heroes can shoot from the hip and kill 10 with a single shot. I get it. But this one above...no.

 

Given that Luke lands on Dagobah just about the same time that the others land on Bespin, the time frame is established. As the plot progresses, Vader and Fett have according to Lando, "arrived shortly before you did", and set the trap for Skywalker. At best, this all takes place over a couple days. To stretch it beyond that is really pushing the boundaries of reality. Even sci-fi movie reality.

 

We're not talking about Luke's self-training between ANH and ESB, or even ESB and ROTJ. We're talking about going from Obi-Wan's Express Training and force one-liners on the Falcon en route to Alderaan, and Yoda's Express Training on Dagobah being Luke's only formal training that prepares him to face Vader. Granted, Luke gets his *** kicked (and loses a hand) by Vader who barely puts forth any effort, but still.

 

Luke didn't land on Dagobah about the same time as the others landed on Bespin...the Empire was still chasing the Falcon through space, if you recall. However source here from Star Wars Insider say about a month.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[VigDiath]

Remember, Han was searching for nearby systems they could go to:

 

Han: "What's this? Lando?"

Leia: "The Lando system?"

Han: "Lando's not a system, he's a man."

 

Even under propulsion power (sans hyperdrive), nearby implies that it didn't take them long to get there. It's not like they were just sputtering through space for days, weeks, or months on end for Luke to perform his expedited Jedi training. It's all speculative how long Luke's training with Yoda actually took, but I'll always hold to the premise that it was merely a few days at best.

 

But they were also stranded on an asteroid for an unknown period of time as well trying to repair the Falcon and that's before plotting a course to Bespin.

All of this is time Luke has to get to Dagobah and train under Yoda before leaving and heading to Bespin. I've seen various sources specify that this time was at minimum 2 weeks and maximum a month or more.

 

Keep in mind, we also only get what they show us on the screen and what we read in the books with some details left out for time, space, and to move the plot forward quickly.

[TalonVII]

RE: Leia's memories of her mother.

 

I can buy that she remembers Padme from birth, being a force sensitive and all. Sure. But that was a moment in time that took exactly 2 seconds. What about her adopted mother who raised her? Maybe Leia knew she was adopted, I don't know enough about the EU to speculate on that. Did the Organa's ever tell Leia that she wasn't really their daughter? It just seems that a lifetime of memories compared to a 2 second glimpse of Padme, doesn't fit.

 

Not to mention that Luke, who was born first and far more attuned to the force, has no recollection of Padme.

 

more attuned to the force AFTER HAVING TRAINING. Luke was no more attuned to the force than Leia was as a newborn. Maybe back then Leia was more attuned. We know not.

[Jovanion]

Its probably just a continuity error.

 

just like how leia kisses luke, and then in ep. 6 she says somehow she always knew they were related *yuck*

 

It wasn't a kiss... they were... exchanging midichlorians... hmm