Should I even bother? Shadow...

[Liwilliams]

With double xp weekends, should I even bother to keep playing my beloved shadow or simply reroll? I'm a fairly new player, and when I try to research my class to get better, all I see are post like:

 

Shadows reroll or quit?

How many are giving up on Shadow tanks?

Exploring Tank Spikiness (Which is actually an incredible read)

Well, It was fun while it lasted...

attention eric musco!!

Fixing Shadow Tank Spikiness

 

I just wonder if I've put all this time into a game for nothing. I see comments here and there about my spikeness compared to the other tank classes in-game, and I can't help but apologize. I'm still gearing, but should it really be this bad? I go to forums for guidance, and instead I see mass threads about how horrible our situation is.

 

Worse yet, there's not even a response for a fix -- hell, even acknowledgement that it's an issue.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Liwilliams

[astrobearx]

WELL....yeah being a shadow or a sin sucks tbh.

 

our dps is so average that its hurts, we are perhaps the squishiest tank out there (i was amazed when i roll a powertech and jugg. holy crap those guys and take alot of heat)

 

 

to me, it depends on whether or not you want to be a stealth tank/dps or enjoy the story....if your answer to no to both then reroll sage, he or she are fun to play with

[Hockaday]

It's always best to level all the tanks a game has. Sins are fun and all, but you'll have an easier time on a Jug. Unless you plan to do NM content, you should be ok. That being said, Jugs / PTs are a bit better shape atm.

[Liwilliams]

It's always best to level all the tanks a game has. Sins are fun and all, but you'll have an easier time on a Jug. Unless you plan to do NM content, you should be ok. That being said, Jugs / PTs are a bit better shape atm.

 

I'm sure it is best; however, I'm fairly casual. Used to be a hard core gamer for years. With a husband and a 60 hour-a-week job; it's near impossible to do that. Being new, I don't want to level 3 classes just in hopes I gear the right one out for end-game content.

[Hockaday]

I'm sure it is best; however, I'm fairly casual. Used to be a hard core gamer for years. With a husband and a 60 hour-a-week job; it's near impossible to do that. Being new, I don't want to level 3 classes just in hopes I gear the right one out for end-game content.

 

Well, I'll say this. In its current state, if you plan to do Higher end game content (Nightmare modes specifically) You should make a Jug (Guardian). If you just plan to do Story mode, and maybe Hard mode, a Sin (Shadow) Will be fine. Though, You will have an easier time (currently...?) on a Jug. They are over tuned currently and need to be balanced.

 

This is not to say, Sins aren't doing Nightmare, but a lot aren't, and guilds are moving away from them for that. Due to the fact they can die from RNG.

 

All this being said, Sin is still my favourite tank class to play. But currently a Jug is a sure thing.

[GrimAce]

Also keep in mind that balance is a constantly evolving landscape. Shadows may be in poor shape right now, but in a few patches time they might be flavour of the month again. So personally I would worry about what class you like to play first and foremost, and go from there.

 

Additionally, at the end of the day even with double XP weekend you're not going to be tanking Nightmare modes for a while yet unless you really grind it out, so IMHO considering the particular specifications of your playstyle you've outlined so far, don't be too concerned for now.

Edited July 2, 2013 by GrimAce

[SithKoriandr]

Shadow Tank Specs have the ability to become DPS Specs!

 

My first 50 was a Sith Assassin, my last 50 is now my level 31 Jedi Shadow

 

How could anyone give up on a Shadow/Assassin?! Some of the best combos of attack animations

[MeisterBabylon]

Play! Because you love to.

 

As a little boy I wanted to grow up to be a 2x-bladed saber guy. Now I'm doing just that. And I get to turn invisible. And tank. And teleport. And then vanish, again.

 

PVE is a pain... Solo-wise, start as Deception spec and use your 1st comp (its always a tank) to keep mobs facing him then blow them down fast. Once I got my DPS companion I stayed in tank spec all the way. Tanking in groupfinder will make you feel really important and motivated to keep going.

 

Yes, there are issues with endgame pve. Tanking is a struggle. It always is. But as dps you will make enrage timers without having to overgear, and for me, throwing yo-yo saber strikes, spinning blows, and shadow stabbidity looks cool enough to overlook that for now. Its what you get when there's balancing. There comes a day when you have your fun in the sun.

 

Get enough levels and PVP is where you rule with all your cooldowns, mobility and tactical advantage (unless you run into a OP/SC... then, bring another OP/SC to the fight!)

 

Enjoy your Shadowsin. I know I have. Because a wz is won in parts by having enough healers and then having enough shadowsins!

[SithKoriandr]

Play! Because you love to.

 

As a little boy I wanted to grow up to be a 2x-bladed saber guy. Now I'm doing just that. And I get to turn invisible. And tank. And teleport. And then vanish, again.

 

PVE is a pain... Solo-wise, start as Deception spec and use your 1st comp (its always a tank) to keep mobs facing him then blow them down fast. Once I got my DPS companion I stayed in tank spec all the way. Tanking in groupfinder will make you feel really important and motivated to keep going.

 

Yes, there are issues with endgame pve. Tanking is a struggle. It always is. But as dps you will make enrage timers without having to overgear, and for me, throwing yo-yo saber strikes, spinning blows, and shadow stabbidity looks cool enough to overlook that for now. Its what you get when there's balancing. There comes a day when you have your fun in the sun.

 

Get enough levels and PVP is where you rule with all your cooldowns, mobility and tactical advantage (unless you run into a OP/SC... then, bring another OP/SC to the fight!)

 

Enjoy your Shadowsin. I know I have. Because a wz is won in parts by having enough healers and then having enough shadowsins!

 

But our melee tanks we start with are the suckie!

[Soluss]

Unless you are doing NiM modes then I don't think you will have a problem. The other thing is that rebalancing happens all the time. Play the class you enjoy.

[Hockaday]

Shadow Tank Specs have the ability to become DPS Specs!

 

My first 50 was a Sith Assassin, my last 50 is now my level 31 Jedi Shadow

 

How could anyone give up on a Shadow/Assassin?! Some of the best combos of attack animations

 

Yes, and so do the other tanks, which also do significantly higher dps (in their dps specs)

[SithKoriandr]

Yes, and so do the other tanks, which also do significantly higher dps (in their dps specs)

 

But they don't look as good! Though I admit...Shadows/Assassins lack the Force Leap all the double bladed light saber/staff using companions have (Come on devs! Give Consular/Inquisitor Force Leap or just give it to Infiltration/Deception Specs!)!!!

[Hockaday]

But they don't look as good! Though I admit...Shadows/Assassins lack the Force Leap all the double bladed light saber/staff using companions have (Come on devs! Give Consular/Inquisitor Force Leap or just give it to Infiltration/Deception Specs!)!!!

 

I personally don't like Force leap. It's fun, I do like it (I know what I said) but I find greater utility in -most- cases from force speed. Well, more flexibility. I also hate double bladed sabres, and find the melee portion of our combat slow. I'd take a marauder or sorc tank any day though.

 

Edited for spelling. I'm tired :/

Edited July 2, 2013 by Hockaday

[CKHelseth]

I have a Juggernaut, Powertech and Assassin. So far I have found the Juggernaut to be the all around best tank for ops but not the best for every fight.

 

Many of the Assassin abilities make up for taking a bit more damage and for some fights the assassins takes less damage due to cool downs and the type of attacks being dealt out due to their resistances. Abilities that reduce armor do not hurt the assassin as much as they already live with little compared to the Jugg and especially the PT.

 

In addition the healing buff provided by phase walk makes up for a lot of the damage taken, helping to heal the entire raid as well. Assassins can also manage adds a little better as they can knock back multiple mobs and area damage, something that Juggernauts are not as well suited to.

 

While some tweaks could be made I haven't found the class to be a detriment when used effectively. I would not give up on them, but I would ensure that you are making the best use of an assassin's skills in a raid.

Edited July 2, 2013 by CKHelseth

[Knockerz]

If you don't plan on pvping guarding nodes, then the short answer is no.

 

Shadow underperformed in every role compared to other classes and are inferior in dps compared to sages. It's a bit depressing playing my shadow now compared to what it used to be pre 2.0. I'm still leveling it to guard nodes and just be a pain in pvp.

[Knockerz]

Shadow Tank Specs have the ability to become DPS Specs!

 

My first 50 was a Sith Assassin, my last 50 is now my level 31 Jedi Shadow

 

How could anyone give up on a Shadow/Assassin?! Some of the best combos of attack animations

 

I agree the animations are pretty nice.

[Avicii]

If you don't plan on pvping guarding nodes, then the short answer is no.

 

Shadow underperformed in every role compared to other classes and are inferior in dps compared to sages. It's a bit depressing playing my shadow now compared to what it used to be pre 2.0. I'm still leveling it to guard nodes and just be a pain in pvp.

 

Pretty much this..

 

Although some times I like node guarding in particular when I can get a couple stragglers either 1 by 1 or 2 at a time. It's fun to see how long I can hold out sap rotating on them. As well as ninja a node or pylon. The thing I live the best is flipping a pylon with 25 secs left in round 3. Granted in RWZs that doesn't happen but being a regstar can be fun at times. As well as HB trolling with fire pulls and knock backs.

 

Despite the burst we are not a preferred class in RWZs for the main fight as we need to exit combat to reset our CDs which doesn't happen often in Rateds other then death or force cloak. Hence go guard your node!

[Neoforcer]

depend on what your doing with your shadow or sin if it pve we bring not just tanking or dps we bring utility as well.

 

If its pvp as a deception sin we can keep up with all the other dps classes if your not putting out 800k to 1mil as a shadow or sin in a wz then your doing it wrong. As tanks we can peel like no other class to keep dps off healers we can node guard with the best of them. Should you continue to roll a shadow depend on what your plan is for that toon.

[Helig]

I'm sure it is best; however, I'm fairly casual. Used to be a hard core gamer for years. With a husband and a 60 hour-a-week job; it's near impossible to do that. Being new, I don't want to level 3 classes just in hopes I gear the right one out for end-game content.

If you're mainly a casual player, don't fret. It's the Nightmare modes that cause all the commotion. Essentially, Shadow tank is so spiky it's unreasonably hard to heal, and it could literally die for no good reason, if the wrong stars align. Other than that, Shadows are viable. They are not the best, currently, but they are viable.

 

Worth noting that MMO balance always shifts and changes. If you just abandon the class you like in favour of a stronger class, you'd likely end up with an underpowered character that you don't really like at some point in the future.

If you don't plan on pvping guarding nodes, then the short answer is no.

 

Shadow underperformed in every role compared to other classes and are inferior in dps compared to sages. It's a bit depressing playing my shadow now compared to what it used to be pre 2.0. I'm still leveling it to guard nodes and just be a pain in pvp.

They're the best 1v1 class at the moment. If the only thing you can think of is "guarding nodes", then I believe you are not exploring the possibilities fully. Call me a FOTM, but I rolled an Infil shadow alt for the very purpose of lonewolfing Warzones. Got full satisfaction because of how efficiently I can turn tides capping nodes all on my own, creating choke points and dispersing enemy reinforcements with mind mazes, or just stalking the person I don't like.

 

Also, it's still the best tank class to solo 4-man content with.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Helig

[Hockaday]

I have a Juggernaut, Powertech and Assassin. So far I have found the Juggernaut to be the all around best tank for ops but not the best for every fight.

 

At this stage in the game, I'm not sure what fight that is. I can't think of one in S/V or TFB where a sin shines compared to a Jug.

 

In addition the healing buff provided by phase walk makes up for a lot of the damage taken, helping to heal the entire raid as well. Assassins can also manage adds a little better as they can knock back multiple mobs and area damage, something that Juggernauts are not as well suited to.

 

This is half, if not a quarter true. Assassin's Shelter isn't all that great of a utility imho. Not the worst, but you won't be placing it on your healers every fight, nor will you be able to refresh it on your healers. (dragging the boss to them is rarely smart). So it is often used as a self heal boost / a teleport. The time duration for each use is lacking imho, and I don't believe strong enough to be considered a real cool down.

 

Now to the aoe part, if you want aoe agro, go Powertech (Vanguard),. agro is by far easier for that aoe speaking. Not to mention, sabre reflect is godly for holding adds that start ranged (well, have ranged attacks)

 

While some tweaks could be made I haven't found the class to be a detriment when used effectively. I would not give up on them, but I would ensure that you are making the best use of an assassin's skills in a raid.

 

In italics.

[Hockaday]

They're the best 1v1 class at the moment. If the only thing you can think of is "guarding nodes", then I believe you are not exploring the possibilities fully. Call me a FOTM, but I rolled an Infil shadow alt for the very purpose of lonewolfing Warzones. Got full satisfaction because of how efficiently I can turn tides capping nodes all on my own, creating choke points and dispersing enemy reinforcements with mind mazes, or just stalking the person I don't like.

 

 

This is slightly incorrect. Since we are talking about Darkness sins, they (afaik) are far from the best 1v1, and yes, are still node only guards. You're thinking deception (middle tree) which is -not- a tank tree.

[Helig]

This is slightly incorrect. Since we are talking about Darkness sins, they (afaik) are far from the best 1v1, and yes, are still node only guards. You're thinking deception (middle tree) which is -not- a tank tree.

My bad. However, my experience with Kinetic has also been overwhelmingly positive. You can outgun a lot of stuff, and what you can't outgun, you can outrun and come back and kick them while they're down.

 

It also has a pull, which adds to the fun you can have in geometry-heavy environment (like Huttball), enabling either instant kills, or taking enemies out of the fight for prolonged periods of time. Good for setting up push, too.

[Hockaday]

My bad. However, my experience with Kinetic has also been overwhelmingly positive. You can outgun a lot of stuff, and what you can't outgun, you can outrun and come back and kick them while they're down.

 

It also has a pull, which adds to the fun you can have in geometry-heavy environment (like Huttball), enabling either instant kills, or taking enemies out of the fight for prolonged periods of time. Good for setting up push, too.

 

I know pre 2.0, it was a nightmare in PvP imho, well, just not like a Jug or PT. I still did great damage (for a tank) and protection (I pug pvp, so 200-400k protection is about all I could get). But I know when I'd 1v1, I didn't feel tanky at all. I believe this has changed with the new shield mechanics...but I haven't pvp'd much past launch of 2.0. I know there I felt godly lol.

[Helig]

I know pre 2.0, it was a nightmare in PvP imho, well, just not like a Jug or PT. I still did great damage (for a tank) and protection (I pug pvp, so 200-400k protection is about all I could get). But I know when I'd 1v1, I didn't feel tanky at all. I believe this has changed with the new shield mechanics...but I haven't pvp'd much past launch of 2.0. I know there I felt godly lol.

That's why a lot of Kinetic shadows went Kinetic/Balance hybrid and used a Focus. They had tank in-combat CC, they had respectable DPS and very decent on-demand burst. And they ran in Combat technique.

[ReordaN]

I dare Devs to look at those links provided by OP.

I really want to hear some acknowledgement from the Devs like " Yeah, we'll gather meeting soon and discuss shadow spikeness problem to find some solutions".

Even if we get an answer like "working as intended" i'd like to hear some reply according to the math provided by ninja and other comrades. They've spent a lot of their time explaining the source of the problem and I find this silence (ingorance?) extremely rude.