Confusion on macros

[Sedonavortex]

I have a friend who fighting with SWTOR about using macro’s. They keep saying macro’s are not allowed and he keeps asking why are they promoting a keyboard and mouse that does macros.

So far the only thing they keep telling him is macro’s are not allowed in game and he keeps sending them the selling points off their website for the keyboard that can be macroed . I am confused ,so who is right the customer that uses the product to its full capability or the company that just wants you to spend the money on the product and not use it.

[Tatile]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6455899&postcount=94

 

-That's the official Bioware word on it.

 

Also, as far as I'm aware, Bioware does not sell keyboards on their website (SWTOR.com) so I would be interested to see this keyboard your friend is referring to. Is it perhaps one of the Razr promotions?

[Lithy]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6459925&postcount=205

 

a dif post with clear examples.

[Skodan]

a macro that would do ONE thing is fine. ie. pressing one button to perform one skill

 

a macro that does multiple things, is not. ie. pressing one button to perform multiple skills in a row

[enabe]

I have a friend who fighting with SWTOR about using macro’s. They keep saying macro’s are not allowed and he keeps asking why are they promoting a keyboard and mouse that does macros.

So far the only thing they keep telling him is macro’s are not allowed in game and he keeps sending them the selling points off their website for the keyboard that can be macroed . I am confused ,so who is right the customer that uses the product to its full capability or the company that just wants you to spend the money on the product and not use it.

 

http://gamerant.com/e3-2011-razer-star-wars-old-republic-keyboard-mouse-jw-91005/

as you can see for this article they team up with razer to have this keyboard made for the game and its big selling point is that u can macro the keys to do many task at once so like the OP ask is the customer right for using it to its full function or is the company right in not wanting u to use it after u buy it

And as far as them promoting the item u can get a Razor crystal in-game as far as I see they are promoting this keyboard, mouse, and headset.

 

then the only other question i have about this is what if this person is handicap and only has the use of one hand and has to run a macro to play

Edited July 2, 2013 by enabe
adding more

[Woodynz]

http://gamerant.com/e3-2011-razer-star-wars-old-republic-keyboard-mouse-jw-91005/

as you can see for this article they team up with razer to have this keyboard made for the game and its big selling point is that u can macro the keys to do many task at once so like the OP ask is the customer right for using it to its full function or is the company right in not wanting u to use it after u buy it

And as far as them promoting the item u can get a Razor crystal in-game as far as I see they are promoting this keyboard, mouse, and headset.

 

then the only other question i have about this is what if this person is handicap and only has the use of one hand and has to run a macro to play

 

This raises many questions, as I am sure the US has laws that would mirror those in NZ

 

ie: Consumer Guarantees Act 1993

 

9 Guarantee that goods comply with description

(1) Subject to section 41, where goods are supplied by description to a consumer, there is a guarantee that the goods correspond with the description.

(2) A supply of goods is not prevented from being a supply by description by reason only that, being exposed for sale or hire, they are selected by a consumer.

(3) If the goods are supplied by reference to a sample or demonstration model as well as by description, the guarantees in this section and in section 10 will both apply.

(4) Where the goods fail to comply with the guarantee in this section,—

(a) Part 2 gives the consumer a right of redress against the supplier; and

(b) Part 3 may give the consumer a right of redress against the manufacturer.

Compare: 1908 No 168 s 15; 1971 No 147 s 14(2); Trade Practices Act 1974 s 70(2) (Aust)

 

It would then be fair to ask, do we request Full Compensation/Refund from Razor? EA? or Bioware, aswell as damages. (*ya for NZ Law stating that internet sales are still required to abide by NZ Law)

 

The RoC

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

"You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate".

 

The key wording here is "Accelerated Rate", as this is the measurement for which this rule applies, a speed hack increases the rate at which information is sent, ergo a no no.

 

A keyboard or mouse macro, which is utilised in the promotional links above still adhere to the Global Cool Down of 1.5 seconds, so therefore there is no accelerated rate being applied

 

This is an area of concern, as it illustrates a failure of departmental heads to communicate openly amongst themselves not to mention the community moderators on the factory floor enforcing their unclear understanding of the rules.

 

Did no one in Promotions/Sales talk to the lads upstairs hey Razors wanting our Corporate Name and Logo on their new Mouse n Keyboard, it does this, this and this... is that all cool with everyone here in Austin?

 

The ship has sailed on all that though, so the only real question that should be asked is, "This functionality is clearly something that 'many' players want for their game, so what is Bioware looking to do to here; Facilitate or hampen this?

 

Will we get the go ahead from Bioware to use these simple tools for ease of life, or will someone put their hand up and say "yeup sorry we goofed with these Keyboards and Mice, we are clearly in breach of common sense & good business practices, so send them all back for full refunds"?...

 

*not likely to happen, but I am still interested to see.

[Gyronamics]

then the only other question i have about this is what if this person is handicap and only has the use of one hand and has to run a macro to play

 

You are forcing an example out of thin air and I'm not seeing a reason to allow an exception which can be maliciously abused by perfectly able players.

 

And underestimating what people can control with one hand when they are used to it.

 

I actually have gamed for about 4 years with someone who did, as you say have one hand.

[falcon_Xtreme]

a macro that would do ONE thing is fine. ie. pressing one button to perform one skill

a macro that does multiple things, is not. ie. pressing one button to perform multiple skills in a row

 

well than thats not a macro. thats a keybind. a macro is a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions, which is what Official Swtor hardware does , (naga mouse and keyboard), and its a feature that they also used as a selling point. If im not allowed to use a product that was promoted and endorsed "to do this and that" then thats just garbage. I didn't see any amendments/clauses mentioned when I purchased the product advertised referring the appropriate TOS considerations.

 

its not as if bioware can tell the difference anyway. latency & combat interrupts, and other game variables make full rotation macros useless, and they would be very hard to detect even if they were used.

Edited July 2, 2013 by falcon_Xtreme

[enabe]

save for later uses Edited July 2, 2013 by enabe
delete

[ufarax]

well than thats not a macro. thats a keybind. a macro is a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions, which is what Official Swtor hardware does , (naga mouse and keyboard), and its a feature that they also used as a selling point. If im not allowed to use a product that was promoted and endorsed "to do this and that" then thats just garbage. I didn't see any amendments/clauses mentioned when I purchased the product advertised referring the appropriate TOS considerations.

 

its not as if bioware can tell the difference anyway. latency & combat interrupts, and other game variables make full rotation macros useless, and they would be very hard to detect even if they were used.

 

 

What he said:):)

[Selethar]

Razor got permission to put the SWTOR name on their products. As their own disclaimer states, they are not affiliated with SWTOR, EA or BW. THEY decided how they were going to market the items. THEY are responsible for not checking with EA / BW about what they would allow.

 

BW, amazingly, has been rock steady on this point that I am aware of, NO MACROS that perform multiple actions. This goes back to launch when people were screaming for in-game macros. Many people asked back then about keyboards that allowed programming and the SAME answers were given then. I followed those threads closely as I also have a programmable keyboard.

 

Furthermore, as posted above, BW has once again replied to this in detail just recently so the "I didn't know" clause doesn't work.

[enabe]

Razor got permission to put the SWTOR name on their products. As their own disclaimer states, they are not affiliated with SWTOR, EA or BW. THEY decided how they were going to market the items. THEY are responsible for not checking with EA / BW about what they would allow.

 

BW, amazingly, has been rock steady on this point that I am aware of, NO MACROS that perform multiple actions. This goes back to launch when people were screaming for in-game macros. Many people asked back then about keyboards that allowed programming and the SAME answers were given then. I followed those threads closely as I also have a programmable keyboard.

 

Furthermore, as posted above, BW has once again replied to this in detail just recently so the "I didn't know" clause doesn't work.

 

http://gamerant.com/e3-2011-razer-st...ouse-jw-91005/

if u look at this article both BW and lucas arts joined up with razer to bring this product line out

[uniz]

a macro that would do ONE thing is fine. ie. pressing one button to perform one skill

 

a macro that does multiple things, is not. ie. pressing one button to perform multiple skills in a row

 

I agree.

 

this game doesn't need the "one button raid monkeys " which blizzard produced.

 

however it would be nice to be able to macro a message with a ability for the group/ops to see. this was a "standard' raid mechanic in eq2 for aa and a few other abilities.

[Furiel]

I agree.

 

this game doesn't need the "one button raid monkeys " which blizzard produced.

 

however it would be nice to be able to macro a message with a ability for the group/ops to see. this was a "standard' raid mechanic in eq2 for aa and a few other abilities.

 

That's what i would like for macros too. I just want the ability to be able to link specific abilities to an announcement in chat. Like when I'm tanking and using a cooldown I'd like to be able to tell the healers automatically. Would make PUG raiding with no voice chat much easier. Same thing with things like Inspiration.

 

I would like mouseover macros at some point as well to make healing easier with those still linked to 1 ability as well, but asking for either feels like wishing for the moon most days.

[Selethar]

http://gamerant.com/e3-2011-razer-st...ouse-jw-91005/

if u look at this article both BW and lucas arts joined up with razer to bring this product line out

 

Then I would still say that Razor chose to move ahead with the capabilities it had. Which I can understand as there would be an expectation that the keyboard would be used for other games where "full" macroing would be allowed.

 

Bottom line, BW has been very consistent with their stance. They do not allow multi task to one key press macroing. You chose to buy the keyboard and you chose to not understand or to ignore the limitations placed on it by BW. That doesn't make this EA / BWs fault.

[Skodan]

My car is made to go faster than 65 mph, so if i get a ticket for going 90 mph im sending that to toyota. they made the car with the capability to drive fast, i'll be damned if i'll have to pay for it

[enabe]

Then I would still say that Razor chose to move ahead with the capabilities it had. Which I can understand as there would be an expectation that the keyboard would be used for other games where "full" macroing would be allowed.

 

Bottom line, BW has been very consistent with their stance. They do not allow multi task to one key press macroing. You chose to buy the keyboard and you chose to not understand or to ignore the limitations placed on it by BW. That doesn't make this EA / BWs fault.

 

No you are missing the point how can it be a cheat when no matter what you still have a global cool down on your abilities of 1.5 seconds I can sit here and hit my keys every 1.5 second or just mash them down and it does the same thing as a macro i still have to deal with the Global Cool Down that is built into the game. No matter what there is no way around the Global Cool Down of the abilities unless you are going into the game files and removing the line from it.

 

I am also sorry to say that in any business set up between business they talk and find out what a product can do before they say yes Razor u can make that product for us and put our game logo on it so BW and Lucas Arts know exactly what the hardware Razor was making for them. And if they did not know what these products can do then they should not have joined forces with Razor for it. But that cat is out of the bag so in the Long run the ToS and the RoC needs to be looked at again. For the reason no matter what a macro does or a person just massing the keys down or a person with fast fingers you still have to deal with the Global Cool Down of the abilities.

Edited July 2, 2013 by enabe

[Skodan]

No you are missing the point how can it be a cheat when no matter what you still have a global cool down on your abilities of 1.5 seconds I can sit here and hit my keys every 1.5 second or just mash them down and it does the same thing as a macro i still have to deal with the Global Cool Down that is built into the game. No matter what there is no way around the Global Cool Down of the abilities unless you are going into the game files and removing the line from it.

 

I am also sorry to say that in any business set up between business they talk and find out what a product can do before they say yes Razor u can make that product for us and put our game logo on it so BW and Lucas Arts know exactly what the hardware Razor was making for them. And if they did not know what these products can do then they should not have joined forces with Razor for it. But that cat is out of the bag so in the Long run the ToS and the RoC needs to be looked at again. For the reason no matter what a macro does or a person just massing the keys down or a person with fast fingers you still have to deal with the Global Cool Down of the abilities.

 

except without a macro, everytime you want to use a skill you need to hit the button to use it; with a macro you can hit one key, which could go thru your whole rotation.

 

 

i remember in swg i had a macro set up so i could kill creatures, loot them, harvest them, and repeat. actually i had lots of macros, some as basic as saying a message, to changing out gear for when i wanted to change my looks, to extensive ones that automated my crafting leveling

[falcon_Xtreme]

My car is made to go faster than 65 mph, so if i get a ticket for going 90 mph im sending that to toyota. they made the car with the capability to drive fast, i'll be damned if i'll have to pay for it

 

Im so tired of this poor analogy. The car companies didnt give you the fine for driving fast a third party did( the law) swtor however sold and endorsed a product and its features and now swtor is trying to punish you if you using it.

Edited July 2, 2013 by falcon_Xtreme

[enabe]

found this in the pvp forums

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6500022#post6500022

Use case 4

 

keycode to ability bindings (guardian class)

1 - riposte (off GCD)

2 - guardian slash

3 - strike

user presses the '1' key on his device, macro system sends keycode 1, riposte is executed

as quickly as possible (0.011 seconds later?), user presses '1' again, macros system sends keycode 2, guardian slash is not executed because it is on cooldown

as quickly as possible (0.011 seconds later?), user presses '1' again, macro system sends keycode 3, strike ability is executed (it is never on cooldown, riposte did not trigger a GCD, it requires no mana)

 

[X] allowed by ToS

[ ] prohibited by ToS

[ ] example to clear enough to give a ruling

 

This is still a macro that is allowed by ToS according to Phillip that has chimed in a couple of times it still has to go by the Global Cool downs of the game so again i stat no matter what i set a keyboard or mouse to hit the buttons it still has to go by the Global Cool Downs of the abilities if i have one button that hits seven keys it still only going to get one ability that is not on a cool down no matter what.

 

So please people lets try to get some greater clarification of this from a DEV