Juggernaut AOE Threat Problems? Help is here

[Toymaker]

Hey all,

 

A common theme on this forum among the lower level Juggernauts seems to be that AoE threat is a problem.

 

I imagine most of you are struggling with keeping AoE threat in Hammer Station and Black Talon. A few of you are probably poking into the higher level dungeons and noticing that all you have is smash. Frowny Face.

 

Here are some solutions:

 

Tank only mobs that pose a real threat

 

This one's a pretty easy mental shift you can make that will help you a lot. Do not try to tank normals and strongs in Flash points. These mobs generally don't do enough damage to cause problems for healers. In good strategy, these mobs will be killed off first because they have low health anyway.

 

Use your group's crowd control effects

 

Tanks are often the ones who have to assign CCs, because we're the ones who choose to break them. Know who can do CCs. Sorcerors can Whirlwind anything, Operatives can Sap non droids, Marauders can Disable Droids. Right click the portrait of the mob you want CC'd and set it's mark to something then tell your group to do it. After you do this make sure you don't smash after you charge.

 

Choose a Taunt Target and a Threat Target

 

A great strategy for holding aggro on 2 mobs is to pour most of your threat generating abilities and attacks into a single mob and just taunt another mob on cooldown. Most packs don't have more than 2 mobs worth tanking, so in general you'll be able to get a lot of mileage out of this strategy. If there are more than 2 mobs worth tanking, maybe you should use a crowd control effect... =)

 

Stand with the mobs between you and the rest of the group

 

A lot of the problems with AoE threat are actually due to targeting visibility. It's hard to known when a mob isn't attacking you (especially without Target of target frames). Since mobs face the target they are attacking, if you stand on the opposite side of the mobs it will be vastly easier to notice which mobs are not attacking you.

 

Do not expect Smash to do your job for you

 

Smash, even with the Soresu bonus, doesn't do enough threat to keep a mob on you through nearly any DPS. You will need to use your taunt and change targets frequently to hold aggro on more than 1 mob. Even if you're using the threat-target/taunt-target strategy, your taunt target will need an occasional Sundering Strike or normal attack.

 

Put Guard on the highest Ranged DPS threat

 

Choosing a good Guard Target is a big deal. In general I suggest putting it on the highest ranged DPS threat party member. The reason for this is that if your ranged DPS pulls aggro, the mob is going to run away from you. If your melee DPS pulls aggro, the mob will still be in range to target switch and threat dump as well as pick up glancing threat from Smash. An aggressive healer is also a decent choice if you notice they're picking up mobs frequently.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Toymaker

[Squidwalker]

All good tips I ended using in Hammer. If there was no elite I hit a strong and the group just do their thing, and stuff went down fast. If more than one elite I had the sorcerer we one. I had the mercy handle the adds and keep them off of the heal. Being ranged the have an easier time doing that. I did the trick of taunt one and damage other, but I'm not sure how much threat taunt generates on its own. I ended up fishing out damage to both back and forth, and taunting the one the group was burning down, only when it turned off of me.

[Toymaker]

Im still not 100% sure the exact threat mechanics of this game.

 

If Taunt behaves the same way it does in World of Warcraft and other MMOGs, it's function is this:

 

You become the top of the threat list. No other aggro is generated. An example:

 

Player A Threat on Mob A is 100.

Tank A Threat on Mob A is 50.

Tank A taunts Mob A.

Player A Threat on Mob A is 100.

Tank A Threat on Mob A is 101.

 

The other things that affect this strategy is threat thresholds.

 

In World of Warcraft, you must be at 110% of the current target's threat to become the new current target if you are in melee range and 130% of the current target's threat to become the new current target. If it behaves like this, the taunt strategy is even better because it gives you a 10% threat threshold every time you taunt.

[NoseNuggets]

very good tips, and well written and laid out.

[Banivisa]

Well written and good tips for the WoW players and newbs who are crying about aggro issues.

 

Unfortunatly they're nothing new these are tactics good tanks have been using for a decade which would be the reason you see a number of us having no problems tanking and a number of players having nothing but problems tanking.

 

Good job and thank you for taking the time out of your day to help.

[Toymaker]

Well written and good tips for the WoW players and newbs who are crying about aggro issues.

 

Unfortunatly they're nothing new these are tactics good tanks have been using for a decade which would be the reason you see a number of us having no problems tanking and a number of players having nothing but problems tanking.

 

Good job and thank you for taking the time out of your day to help.

 

Tanking is often more about strategy, and understanding the way the threat system works than knowing which buttons to push. Since these can be complex topics to explain and understand I think many MMOGs (such as WoW) just skip it altogether and provide high impact AoE abilities to absolve the players of needing to dig deep to figure this stuff out.

 

Maybe we can keep tanking dynamic and interesting by teaching rather than nerfing... =)

[Banivisa]

Tanking is often more about strategy, and understanding the way the threat system works than knowing which buttons to push. Since these can be complex topics to explain and understand I think many MMOGs (such as WoW) just skip it altogether and provide high impact AoE abilities to absolve the players of needing to dig deep to figure this stuff out.

 

Maybe we can keep tanking dynamic and interesting by teaching rather than nerfing... =)

 

We can only hope I know that if I end up being able to tank using nothing other the force charge and smash on cd I'm going to switch to dps or another class.

[Beowooolf]

i have tanked in almost every game i have played i agree with all the stuff said here i think the game is design to make you choose who to tank and who to let run free which is cool because it makes us tanks think more

 

my only thing is i notice that no matter what i do sometimes i still loose agro on mobs

 

example

 

was doing mandalorians i charged in used forced scream and taunted one mob beban rotation to build agro

 

about 3 seconds in it gets loose and runs to my bounty hunter (yes i had him guarded and he was in range)

 

i taunted right back and nothing happened but i dont get how i can loose agro on mob i taunted dpsed and runs to target i had gaurded

[Toymaker]

I have noticed that some bosses seem to wipe threat occasionally.

 

Also, until we can get a better idea of threat generation from other classes things will be a bit unpredictable.

[LrdStryfe]

I've had 0 problems with my threat and and keeping aggro as a Jugg tank. You just have to be smart with who you choose to tank.

 

Obviously if there's no Champion, tank the Elite, no Elite, tank the Strong, and so forth. Don't feel like you need to get aggro from absolutely everything. In Flashpoints I only take aggro from the hardest opponent, and let the rest of the group deal with the regulars. Don't get upset if the group bashes on you for not grabbing the aggro of even the regulars, that's a ****** group if they do that.

 

Manage your cool downs. It may take a run or two to learn abilities of the Champions but once you do you can start managing your Disruption to run with their cooldowns.

 

It's important to have a large amount of hate generated at all times but since Juggs really don't have a lot of threat generators, especially pre-level 30 you need to be conservative with your Taunt. I only use taunt in cases where I lose aggro. That way you're not spamming it everytime it's ready to use, and are left with it still on a 10 second cooldown if your mob breaks aggro. This is especially true in Mandalorian Radiers, the Jedi with the red lightsabers uses a force push ability which instantly breaks threat with you, and so you'll immediately need to get Taunt on her to get her aggro back or you're group gets ****ed.

[Emgro]

I have noticed that some bosses seem to wipe threat occasionally.

 

Also, until we can get a better idea of threat generation from other classes things will be a bit unpredictable.

 

I agree on the bosses behaving oddly. For instance, the mining droid boss on Hammer Station tends to use his big laser on a random target, while still directing his standard attacks on me. The same seems to apply to many targeted abilities; while the standard melee attacks are still going against me, force using enemies will drop Lightning Storm elsewhere.

[KurganNazzir]

Choose a Taunt Target and a Threat Target

 

A great strategy for holding aggro on 2 mobs is to pour most of your threat generating abilities and attacks into a single mob and just taunt another mob on cooldown. Most packs don't have more than 2 mobs worth tanking, so in general you'll be able to get a lot of mileage out of this strategy. If there are more than 2 mobs worth tanking, maybe you should use a crowd control effect... =)

 

Pretty much all your points is what I was doing out of instinct, and this is the first time I've played a true tank in a group in any game. I picked quote this because it can be a very important one if you have two elites or more. Depending on if it's a full group or companions are out depends on what I do. If we have companions, I can send Vette to tank one mob while I grab another one (or two, if needed) if I choose; I would use Vette to grab initial aggro during boss fights when I was 'duoing' Hammer Station last night. I also pay attention to who is fighting what around me and if their struggling, I can run over and grab aggro while still holding aggro on the mob I was already fighting.

 

As for the bosses in Hammer Station, they seem to be like bosses in other games where, even though you do have the aggro, they will toss out attacks on other players. Nothing new there.

 

AoE taunt would be nice, but it's not necessary if one pays attention to what is going on and thinks things through.

[bassfu]

I was about to make a thread asking what the deal was with AOE threat. Tanking bosses are fine and dandy on my Jug but a small group will be running amok every time, glad to see some of it is due to the classes short comings and not entirely on my skill.