Remove vote kick

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

How about the fact that NOBODY, or almost nobody, ran them in 20 minutes until they started to well over gear them.

 

 

How many people do you know that were completing the level 50 HM FP's in 20 minutes in March of 2012, let alone as early as January of 2012?

 

So completely anecdotal like I thought, thanks for clearing that up.

 

The point, yes they take a bit while you're still gearing up but months into the content the people running them are 90% doing speed runs just to get dailies/weeklies done. If it takes more than 20 minutes then it's not worth the effort. That's the reality.

[Skodan]

I've been working on my tank guardian, in the mid 40s now.

 

I logged in the other day to do my FP dailies, and i was at the point where i had to queue up for Maelstrom Prison, Colicoid War Games, and Red Reaper to be able to get the daily comms. I knew I did not have the good gear, i was in like gear for level 38 or something, but had been advancing too quickly lol.

 

anyway i pop up the GF queue and i was praying i wouldnt get RR, but of course i did, so in advance of starting the FP, i let the group know that i was at the minimum level to do the fp and that i was undergeared. i asked the group if they'd like me to leave since i'd probably hinder them due to my level/gear. kindly, they let me stay, and we only died in the beginning during the first couple fights with all those strongs.

 

So for me, I have no sympathy for the OP's friend, if you want to be able to do all the content without being kicked, then get a sub or the artifact authorization so you can equip all the gear you get. regular FPs can be a pain in the tuckus sometimes depending on the groups level/gear, so dont expect any leniancy for HM FPs. nothing is more aggravating than having a member in the group who cannot fulfil their role because of being undergeared and causing the group to constantly die

[Ratajack]

So completely anecdotal like I thought, thanks for clearing that up.

 

The point, yes they take a bit while you're still gearing up but months into the content the people running them are 90% doing speed runs just to get dailies/weeklies done. If it takes more than 20 minutes then it's not worth the effort. That's the reality.

 

So, the elitists want speed runs, and woe to anyone who might hinder them. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

I've been working on my tank guardian, in the mid 40s now.

 

I logged in the other day to do my FP dailies, and i was at the point where i had to queue up for Maelstrom Prison, Colicoid War Games, and Red Reaper to be able to get the daily comms. I knew I did not have the good gear, i was in like gear for level 38 or something, but had been advancing too quickly lol.

 

anyway i pop up the GF queue and i was praying i wouldnt get RR, but of course i did, so in advance of starting the FP, i let the group know that i was at the minimum level to do the fp and that i was undergeared. i asked the group if they'd like me to leave since i'd probably hinder them due to my level/gear. kindly, they let me stay, and we only died in the beginning during the first couple fights with all those strongs.

 

So for me, I have no sympathy for the OP's friend, if you want to be able to do all the content without being kicked, then get a sub or the artifact authorization so you can equip all the gear you get. regular FPs can be a pain in the tuckus sometimes depending on the groups level/gear, so dont expect any leniancy for HM FPs. nothing is more aggravating than having a member in the group who cannot fulfil their role because of being undergeared and causing the group to constantly die

 

If someone is constantly causing the group to wipe, that is one thing, and a vote to kick is in order.

 

However, if no one in the group is dying and the mobs and bosses are dying, then what is the problem? Is that one player not living up to someone's elitist standards? Is that run going to take 25 minutes versus 20 minutes?

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

So, the elitists want speed runs, and woe to anyone who might hinder them. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Slander me all you want. I'm a big fan of Immanuel Kant and he had a check for if something was moral to do or not, it is called Kant's Ontological Imperative. It basically says that if everyone did the action in question, would it be practical, if the answer is no then it's immoral. If everyone were to kill 1 person all man kind would be wiped out. If everyone mooched of someone then no one would make money and we'd all starve.

 

So let's apply this to the OPs situation. So he want to run a flashpoint with gear that is from the developers (as it's listed what the gear requirement is) should not be done. If all 4 members of the group were geared to that same low standard, the group would fail to complete the content, therefore expecting the rest of the group to pull him through it is immoral.

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

Define "pulling their weight", please.

 

I'm just going to pull numbers out of the air here. If a boss requires an average of 1000 DPS to beat the enrage timer and one member of the group is in level 50 blues and is pulling 1100 DPS and the other members of the group are in the latest and greatest tier gear and are pulling 1900 DPS, does that mean that the player in blues is not "pulling his weight" even though his DPS is sufficient and the boss goes dies?

 

Ah, I don't pay that much attention to numbers and I used "pulling their weight" as a lazy generalisation of any kind of behavior that might make the rest of the group take a second look. Dying very quickly, for example. But generally anything disruptive - pulling mobs without waiting/jumping ahead of the tank as DPS even though the tank asked them not to/bosses dying at a significantly slower rate than "normally" which may end up causing problems for the healer... that sort of thing. Not all of that has to do with gear, obviously, but in my experience people are more likely to pay attention to someone's gear if they're behaving in a way that is somewhat different/disruptive.

 

What I was trying to express was slight doubt as to whether gear is the only reason the OP's friend keeps getting kicked, since as you say, gear and numbers aren't everything.

[Revenaught]

Actually, you need the Tionese lvl mods 126 rating I believe, that is the requirement for 50 HM Fps. They used to give you a full set of Tionese gear when you hit 50 pre2.0, now you have to buy mods and armorings with classic comms, its not hard to do either, you learn your class better while doing the dailies, and you get gear. You will need purples to do them, if you're in blues you need to hope your group can carry you, or that they don't kick you because you're a decent player.

I will only kick a person if he's underperforming, being an arse, or just running around pulling stuff like a tard.

 

No you don't need the Tionese lvl mods. They only started handing out the free set of Tionese gear because they were handing out free sets of PvP Recruit gear, not because the HMs required it. The initial lvl 50 HMs were and still are capable of being done with blue lvl 50 mods from the planetary commendation vendor with comms earned with Corellia dailies.

 

Mind you I'm not saying it would be easy with such a group. They were a good challenge and much harder than now with much stronger gear so easily available, but they were completable.

[Skodan]

If someone is constantly causing the group to wipe, that is one thing, and a vote to kick is in order.

 

However, if no one in the group is dying and the mobs and bosses are dying, then what is the problem? Is that one player not living up to someone's elitist standards? Is that run going to take 25 minutes versus 20 minutes?

 

did the OP state whether his friend was getting kicked right at the start, or due to too many deaths, i kinda skimmed thru the thread?

 

If no one is dying, then i wouldnt see a problem in keeping them in the group. the only time i actually look at what gear someone is wearing is IF the group wipes

[Revenaught]

So let's apply this to the OPs situation. So he want to run a flashpoint with gear that is from the developers (as it's listed what the gear requirement is) should not be done. If all 4 members of the group were geared to that same low standard, the group would fail to complete the content, therefore expecting the rest of the group to pull him through it is immoral.

 

But in the OPs situation the flashpoints in question are capable of being run and completed with teams of 4 wearing the exact same level of gear the OP's friend is in. So he is doing nothing immoral at all.

[Ratajack]

Ah, I don't pay that much attention to numbers and I used "pulling their weight" as a lazy generalisation of any kind of behavior that might make the rest of the group take a second look. Dying very quickly, for example. But generally anything disruptive - pulling mobs without waiting/jumping ahead of the tank as DPS even though the tank asked them not to/bosses dying at a significantly slower rate than "normally" which may end up causing problems for the healer... that sort of thing. Not all of that has to do with gear, obviously, but in my experience people are more likely to pay attention to someone's gear if they're behaving in a way that is somewhat different/disruptive.

 

What I was trying to express was slight doubt as to whether gear is the only reason the OP's friend keeps getting kicked, since as you say, gear and numbers aren't everything.

 

The problem is that many of the elitists who want speed runs DO focus on the numbers, almost to the exclusion of all else, and anyone who does not meet their "standards" is a "scrub" and gets kicked, even if they have done nothing wrong.

 

The OP did not mention whether or not his "friend" had been rude and obnoxious, dying to quickly, standing in the bad stuff or committed any other fault. The only thing we know from the OP is that his "friend" does not have purple gear or mods.

[Ratajack]

But in the OPs situation the flashpoints in question are capable of being run and completed with teams of 4 wearing the exact same level of gear the OP's friend is in. So he is doing nothing immoral at all.

 

I agree, but the elitists who want speed runs do not, as we have already seen.

[ronaldoking]

good idea

 

but my argument stands if they are going to restrict people with some stuff that was implemented pre F2P it needs to go

 

as for the other reply my point still stands if your not happy their is an exit area button to use , no need to humiliate someone

 

F2P is basically a free trial to lvl 10 then the restrictions come in. Honestly if you play the game to 50 F2P why not sub because the amount of time you played to get to 50 is 2x as long as it would if you'd subbed. My advice is just to get him to sub it makes the most sense because it seems like he is wanting to do end game things.

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

The problem is that many of the elitists who want speed runs DO focus on the numbers, almost to the exclusion of all else, and anyone who does not meet their "standards" is a "scrub" and gets kicked, even if they have done nothing wrong.

 

The OP did not mention whether or not his "friend" had been rude and obnoxious, dying to quickly, standing in the bad stuff or committed any other fault. The only thing we know from the OP is that his "friend" does not have purple gear or mods.

 

Yes, I don't like that sort of behavior, either and I hardly ever kick anyone unless they're being rude or won't listen to polite advice when it comes to tactics at all. (and in the latter case only if they're clearly the one hindering the group from progressing.) As long as we can get the FP done and people aren't insulting each other, I'm good.

 

Indeed. I know his gear might get him kicked more often than deserved, but I still doubt that he would get kicked for it regularly without having done anything else - but, as I said, that's only based on my experiences.

[Canmore]

HE is a mature old school player who grew up on mmos like everquest 1 and SWG

his reactions are not as quick as they where and clicks his skills

he pauses to check his situation , still cant get out of the habit of old style mobs you would find in eq where 1 broken cc would wipe you

his PC is not the best and under heavy graphics load it will lag slightly

 

generally he is slower than most and needs people to be patiant

 

he does not get kicked every FP i exagirated . sorry

 

because of his blue gear if he makes a mistake on which mob he should be on he drops fast . like a stray silver elite

 

he is not an idiot who abuses or harasses others

 

basicly he needs guidance and forbearance of his limitations but gets kicked by people who want to rush

[Icebergy]

Let me summarize. His friend is unable to get the gear REQUIRED to run these flashpoints. He is being kicked because of this.

He is not being kicked becuase he is F2P. He does not have the gear, pure and simple. He can either sub, or buy the unlock to get the gear.

 

If he does not have the gear required, then his group is perfectly justified in kicking him.

[ELRunninW]

Then the main problem is not the kicking or leaving, but luck of patience from other players. There is nothing you can do about this, and removing Vote Kick does not solve the problem because players in your group who can not get ride of you will abuse you to the point you chose to quit anyway. They will put you on ignore to make sure you are never grouped with them again.

 

You should rethink what is it that you want corrected, but I think you will have no luck. Running with a group of friends is the best choice. Join a large guild, there are plenty of people out there who are willing to help.

Edited June 28, 2013 by ELRunninW

[PlasmaJohn]

... people who want to rush

Unfortunately this seems to be the new normal especially for HM50's as most people will seriously overgear them. Friends or a F2P friendly guild can help a lot here.

[Roalmo]

Confused a tad. Can't ftpers wear Orange gear?

 

Wouldn't Orange gear be good enfu for Hm? Or do you really need Purps?

[Ratajack]

Confused a tad. Can't ftpers wear Orange gear?

 

Wouldn't Orange gear be good enfu for Hm? Or do you really need Purps?

 

Orange gear with level 50 blue mods appropriate for his class should be fine, unless he finds himself in a group that insists on all members way over gearing the instance.

[Marrkin]

I agree, but the elitists who want speed runs do not, as we have already seen.

 

Exactly how many times do you need to post the word "elitist" ? You aren't actually making a point by using the label that has an impact on the general mass here.

 

Not saying they don't exist, but most of what I have read here does not support this label.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Marrkin

[SithKoriandr]

that would work for me . but that still leaves the issue of people having the power to kick a person from a flashpoint who is trying to have fun . have gamers become so intolerant over the years we cant handle the fact that some people need more assistance doing content than others .

 

most people in the 50 plus bracket are not ******s who need to be vote kicked cause of bad behavour . most of those guys are on your ignore list long ago .

 

some of the posters are correct i try group with him with friends as much as possible but everytime he uses GF when we are not on its kick time .

 

Me personally? I just keep powering on through until we win, but other gamers. Oh yeah. They stopped playing for fun a long time ago, stuck a stick up their *** and became elitest because, likely because their RL sucks that much.

 

Nothing we can do about that really.

[CaptRavenous]

My problem is solved rather simply.

 

I don't PUG. I never use the LFG tool. Nothing but headaches and grief down that path.

 

I sometimes offer assistance when players ask for help over general chat, but when I need help, I have RL family and friends I can rely on. I just need to be patient in getting group content done. But all of it does get done, eventually.

 

But, removing vote kick? Why do you think they put it there in the first place? Players DEMANDED a vote kick system, and one was put in place. Personally, I miss just being able to remove idiot players as group leader, but the majority wanted a vote-kick, so other players could share the blame & guilt of kicking a player out of group.

 

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

[Szulla]

Sorry, but if my DPS has been sitting in the queue for 1+ hours and finally get a pop only to find an undergeared(not underskilled) player in the group, you are gone. There will be no way of finishing a HM FP without the correct gear. It has happened to me, and was explained before starting. It's nothing personal, that's the game.

[Atramar]

This is where the incentive to either sub or buy the corresponding unlock comes into play. Why should subscribers lose another tool to people too cheap to pay for the game?

 

And if your friend is repeatedly kicked from groups, there are bigger reasons than that he is F2P.

 

didn't go thro 13 pages, but this^^

 

I didn't see people kicked from L50 hms in L 47 greens, even LI is doable this way. Help him getting some augments to neutralize difference.

L50 blues is good enouth, and only reason for being kicked out is either having wrong stats (look at 'weird people you find in group finder' thread - like PT tank in dps gear and might stim) or acting stupid (same thread).

please don't remove the tool that is used to remove tools...

Edited July 1, 2013 by Atramar

[DarthTHC]

Me personally? I just keep powering on through until we win, but other gamers. Oh yeah. They stopped playing for fun a long time ago, stuck a stick up their *** and became elitest because, likely because their RL sucks that much.

 

Nothing we can do about that really.

 

How is it fun to carry someone who is obviously incapable of contributing meaningfully though a flash point?

 

It would be more fun to try to 3-man it or do it with a companion than to carry an anchor through it.