The Sage/Sorcerer Lightsaber needs to stop being just a "stat stick"

[dscount]

I'd like to see some sort of Force Leech attached to that saber instead.

 

Maybe Thrown or just casting with some animation around that. Would go a long way to help Sage/Sorc regain FORCE.

[swtonewbie]

In opposition to common belief, I'm actually putting strength, attack and corresponding Mods into my Sage's Light Sabre (and the Gamorrean Axe which I had originally bought for Qysen before I realized that he couldn't handle it),

which means in result that my Sage is really able to defend himself to some degree.

 

However, this is in total opposition to common belief. I will get a vote kick if people find this out in an FP (which is why I don't play FPs with him right now).

 

Since my main Sage is a healer, getting a vote kick is even more likely, since people expect me to pump every possible thing into healing, AND NOTHING ELSE.

 

Let me get this straight...you actually put strength hilts and mods into your sages lightsaber because you think it helps them defend better? I seriously hope you are trolling. Is this your first MMO or something? This isn't like most SP games or other MMOs where you gain a benefit from every stat. Here you gain almost nothing from stats which are not your primary.

 

You are correct that this is in opposition to common belief. There is a reason JK's stack strength, consulars willpower, troopers aim and smugglers cunning. You stack your primary stat because that is what gives you the most bonuses to your attacks. An Operative has quite a few melee attacks, but they still stack cunning. Cunning will benefit those melee attacks because they are classified as 'tech' attacks, which cunning will buff. While in game hit C to open your character window. Mouseover Strength, Willpower, Aim and Cunning...see how much each one gives you. As a Sage willpower gives you the most bonuses.

 

Your stats as a sage are willpower, power, and either alacrity/crit/surge (ask the sage forums for more advice).

 

Strength does nothing for your defenses

Edited July 1, 2013 by swtonewbie

[Rhalius]

Would be nice if they where given some short range abilities with the saber.

 

Alternatively, jedi shadows and sith assasins should be able to use all their abilities with a single saber. That way you can have a consular or inquisitor in melee with a single saber. Not a fan of double bladed sabers myself, especially not for jedi.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Let me get this straight...you actually put strength hilts and mods into your sages lightsaber because you think it helps them defend better? I seriously hope you are trolling. Is this your first MMO or something? This isn't like most SP games or other MMOs where you gain a benefit from every stat. Here you gain almost nothing from stats which are not your primary.

 

You are correct that this is in opposition to common belief. There is a reason JK's stack strength, consulars willpower, troopers aim and smugglers cunning. You stack your primary stat because that is what gives you the most bonuses to your attacks. An Operative has quite a few melee attacks, but they still stack cunning. Cunning will benefit those melee attacks because they are classified as 'tech' attacks, which cunning will buff. While in game hit C to open your character window. Mouseover Strength, Willpower, Aim and Cunning...see how much each one gives you. As a Sage willpower gives you the most bonuses.

 

Your stats as a sage are willpower, power, and either alacrity/crit/surge (ask the sage forums for more advice).

 

Strength does nothing for your defenses

 

So, Willpower lets me strike harder with my Lightsabre ? I hurt enemies much more with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ? I actually do more damage with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ?

 

To put it mildly, that's not very logical.

 

And even worse, to think that Bioware programmed this game with this non-logic ...

 

And yes, I have had several occations where I had to defend myself - as a Sage. For example when I was out of energy, and the enemy suddenly went towards me (class missions). When my Force Armor is no more, then I'm vulnerable.

 

What does a SAge do in a class mission with - let's say - the companion dead, the fight still on, out of energy and the enemy attacking the Sage ? Run away ?

 

In my case, I attack the enemy. It's just like that. There is nowhere to run to, and in the cases when I'm out of energy, my compantion is still alive and the enemy is still there, then I'm helping my companion by using my Lightsabre (Taris, for example).

 

 

What shocks me rather is the close-mindedness of people who firmly believe that th Holy Trinity must be followed AT ALL COSTS; and that everyone else who isn't following THe Rules by the book is just a Troll .

 

This closed-mindedness has led to people here simply reacting with

 

- first reaction : disbelief

- second reaction : ignorance

 

to the developers' announcement that Alacrity should play a bigger role in SWTOR since 2.0.

This has led to people completely ignoring this change, und even to the strong belief that tank armor with alacrity Mods in it is outright WRONG.

 

Cooking after the Book never leads to anything else than to meals everyone knows.

Anything new just isn't there.

 

Me, I've been experimenting quite a lot today when I was cooking my meal. I often do so, because I just do what I see fitting.

 

But you will say : "But this is a GAME !"

 

Right. It's a game. You rarely see children experiment when they play games, do you ? I at least remember how much I was experimenting with Lego. And we didn't have these pre-defined stones. Everything was possible - in our imagination.

 

Rules ? Unimportant, when the environment changes, when the setting changes. How and why do you apply rules when your home is flooded (Europe) or burned away (USA) ?

 

What's important to me is the result.

 

The way towards it - is unimportant to me. (As long as I'm doing nothing illegal.)

 

 

And - to make this clear - I can very much decide to play with a certain set of rules. Because it's more fun to me. I always do so with my pen & paper RPG group I meet once in a month. I decide : It's part of the fun to use these rules, and, besides, it wouldn't make much sense to use a different set of rules, because then I wouldn't play the same game anymore - and we're all playing together anyway.

 

In SWTOR, the rules aren't as strict as they appear to you. As long as they aren't explaind so much that I can REALLY understand them (read : are explained like pen & paper rules are explained), I'm experimenting to get the best results.

 

 

My current question is : If I use a tech weapon, and cunning supports the damage of tech weapons - would it help to have more cunning that my non-tech-supporting main stat ?

[swtonewbie]

So, Willpower lets me strike harder with my Lightsabre ? I hurt enemies much more with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ? I actually do more damage with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ?

 

To put it mildly, that's not very logical

 

Does it make sense that Cunning benefits a sniper who is ranged dps, an operative that does melee damage, and an operative that is specc'ed into healing?

 

Does it make sense that Aim benefits a Mercenary that shoots from far, a Pyrotech that gets right in your face and throws napalm on you?

 

Does it make sense that Willpower gives Sorcs and Sages bonuses to +force damage, +force crit, and +healing? BUT on Assassins and Shadows Willpower gives you bonuses to +melee bonus, +melee crit, +force damage, +force crit and +healing?

 

Of course that doesnt make sense, but i dont worry about if something makes sense or not in this game. I find out how the system operates and i play according to the rules of that system. I dont play a chess game and start making up my own rules. I'm not Neo and this isnt the Matrix, and i cant do whatever i want and expect better results then someone abiding by the system.

 

You can play however you want, but anybody that knows how to play will tell you that you are doing it wrong. You say you are trying to experiment to get better results? well from what you are saying your results show, and they are poor. You mention Taris, and having trouble with class missions, your comp dying and running out of force power?

 

I'm not going to answer every little thing you posted about because part of it is you rambling. But if you need help with your class then visit the class forums. If not to ask for help, at least share with them your method of gameplay and see how they respond.

 

Jedi Consular Forums

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=20

[Vinjar]

So, Willpower lets me strike harder with my Lightsabre ? I hurt enemies much more with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ? I actually do more damage with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ?

 

To put it mildly, that's not very logical.

 

And even worse, to think that Bioware programmed this game with this non-logic ...

 

And yes, I have had several occations where I had to defend myself - as a Sage. For example when I was out of energy, and the enemy suddenly went towards me (class missions). When my Force Armor is no more, then I'm vulnerable.

 

What does a SAge do in a class mission with - let's say - the companion dead, the fight still on, out of energy and the enemy attacking the Sage ? Run away ?

 

In my case, I attack the enemy. It's just like that. There is nowhere to run to, and in the cases when I'm out of energy, my compantion is still alive and the enemy is still there, then I'm helping my companion by using my Lightsabre (Taris, for example).

 

 

What shocks me rather is the close-mindedness of people who firmly believe that th Holy Trinity must be followed AT ALL COSTS; and that everyone else who isn't following THe Rules by the book is just a Troll .

 

This closed-mindedness has led to people here simply reacting with

 

- first reaction : disbelief

- second reaction : ignorance

 

to the developers' announcement that Alacrity should play a bigger role in SWTOR since 2.0.

This has led to people completely ignoring this change, und even to the strong belief that tank armor with alacrity Mods in it is outright WRONG.

 

Cooking after the Book never leads to anything else than to meals everyone knows.

Anything new just isn't there.

 

Me, I've been experimenting quite a lot today when I was cooking my meal. I often do so, because I just do what I see fitting.

 

But you will say : "But this is a GAME !"

 

Right. It's a game. You rarely see children experiment when they play games, do you ? I at least remember how much I was experimenting with Lego. And we didn't have these pre-defined stones. Everything was possible - in our imagination.

 

Rules ? Unimportant, when the environment changes, when the setting changes. How and why do you apply rules when your home is flooded (Europe) or burned away (USA) ?

 

What's important to me is the result.

 

The way towards it - is unimportant to me. (As long as I'm doing nothing illegal.)

 

 

And - to make this clear - I can very much decide to play with a certain set of rules. Because it's more fun to me. I always do so with my pen & paper RPG group I meet once in a month. I decide : It's part of the fun to use these rules, and, besides, it wouldn't make much sense to use a different set of rules, because then I wouldn't play the same game anymore - and we're all playing together anyway.

 

In SWTOR, the rules aren't as strict as they appear to you. As long as they aren't explaind so much that I can REALLY understand them (read : are explained like pen & paper rules are explained), I'm experimenting to get the best results.

 

 

My current question is : If I use a tech weapon, and cunning supports the damage of tech weapons - would it help to have more cunning that my non-tech-supporting main stat ?

 

 

I am almost certain you are trolling. If you are not, let me help shed a little light on how willpower affects a sorcerer/sage. Open your character sheet. Place the cursor over Willpower. You will see what bonus your current willpower gives you to Force attacks. Now, look at every one of your abilities. Do you see the base power? For you it says Force. Yes, even saber attacks ( I forget what it is called) use Force.

 

If you have Guardian, Juggernaut, Marauder, or Sentinel you place the cursor over Strength and see what benefit you get to melee attacks. Then look at your abilities and see they are melee.

 

I sincerely hope this helps.

[Kenj]

While I admit it's not exactly a big deal it is odd how this is the only ranged class who's, for lack of a better term 'auto-attack' is limited to melee range. In a good rotation I don't find myself lacking the ability to use it as some 'padding' and as far as I can tell damage wise even if I were to get in close and use it there wouldn't be a real point since it does such weak damage and seems like a GCD waste when if I'm absolutely out of force I'd probably risk the noble sacrifice and a self-heal cast over two/three hits with the current ability even if it were ranged.

 

That being said, an ability that just serves as a ranged animation of the same attack, or something as drastic as making the ability outright ranged are options (I'll admit it would be interesting if the ranged saber strike carried over to shadows in a diminished form if that route was chosen). Though then there might be more people using the stalker armor for the shadow 2-piece set bonus on a sage, which could be overpowered, or more likely would just be a joke to see people try it.

[Kuronan]

What are you talking about ? Kinetic Combat do not have any ability that look like to a throw, even slightly.

 

If you're talking about Clairvoyant Strike (Infiltration), then I hope you're not serious, because the ability is ugly as hell.

Kinetic Combat: The name of a Force Technique used by Kreia in KOTOR 2, where she levitates and controls lightsabers using the Force. It's also identified in the Star Wars Saga rulebooks as a legitimate technique.

 

Also, Clairvolyant Strike is a good example, throwing your lightsaber forward and spinning it in their face clearly demonstrates you can move the lightsaber telekinetically.

 

Darth Traya was another exceptional Force user.

For the Sorcerer...

 

So I can survive a Dark Councilor's attack (Strongest Sith in the Galaxy, save the Dread Masters and the Emperor according to lore) control 5 (maybe 6) Force Apparitions fueled by hatred, anger and pride, and eventually KILL the Councilor after a fully sustained attack? All that and I'm NOT exceptional?!

 

Or, for the Consular...

 

I can learn a technique that drains me of my own energy, use it on 6 people, still have the power to strike down the Sith that caused these diseases, then (after babysitting the Rift Alliance) Go out and kill 2 Children of the Emperor, then go to Corellia and kill two more and kill the First Son?

 

I kinda like your idea but still have to disagree as it is something that just doesn't fit. If you want to look at it from a realistic perspective, it would take a lot of concentration to have a lightsaber chase someone around, much less than casting a spell.

It would also take a lot of concentration to lift a pebble off of the ground through sheer force of will, but Consulars can throw giant chunks of earth and astromechs at people every six seconds...

 

A smart Sorc/sage would just pick up a blaster pistol, gives him the 30 meter range most of his other attacks are at with no real disadvantage. Personally I would like the option to use different weapons.

It's actually been said in Lore that Sith consider the Lightsaber to be a more elegant weapon, due to many factors, likely including training, but also...

A) A Lightsaber does not need to be reloaded, and usually requires little to no maintenance.

B) Can cut an object with precision, unlike a blaster, which you'll likely waste a few clips and ten seconds auto-firing to cut what would take a Lightsaber two seconds of a swing.

C) Lightsabers can be used defensively to deflect blaster bolts and other Lightsabers.

D) A Lightsaber is the mark of a Sith or Jedi. MANY Sith and Jedi alike are seen openly carrying it on their hip, that's why you always see your character reach to their hip (Open Carry) and not instead reaching into their robes (Concealed Carry)

[Jeebbers]

Not going to read all the posts to see if anyone already said this, but think back to the movies. Did Palpatine stand there shooting lightning at Yoda and Mace the whole time? No, he threw in saber attacks, and mixed them in with his lightnings. Sorc/Sage should get something like that. Even like a ranged master strike, where you leap into melee, then leap back out, like what Palpatine did. I think that would be cool.

[darthwretch]

you should have saberstrike in your abillity bar at all times and with any spec,at higher lvl it does do a relative amound of dmg and it doesnt cost no force.when it comes to double strike that one you dont need when u become an full sage or sorcerer it costs force and it does practicly the same dmg as saberstrike,

2nd of all you should never run out of force anyway if so change your rotation you are doing something wrong.

as with all classes you wanna keep force up and try to never go down lower 55% of your force for beter incombat regeneration of force,apart from saber strike and deflecting white hits the saber is more of an estatic kind of thing like an talisman in other games it does still provide you with additional stats±endurance,willpower ,power crit surge or alacrity,depending on mods in your weapon,

if you do run out of force in that case i suggest you run op to the boss,mob,or enemy player then to just stand like afk waiting to regain force and saber strike the target and you will see that your force comes back slightly faster,after all that little bit of saberstrike dmg might be meaning just the amount of dmg that is needed to kill the boss at the end??

[Jeebbers]

you should have saberstrike in your abillity bar at all times and with any spec,at higher lvl it does do a relative amound of dmg and it doesnt cost no force.when it comes to double strike that one you dont need when u become an full sage or sorcerer it costs force and it does practicly the same dmg as saberstrike,

2nd of all you should never run out of force anyway if so change your rotation you are doing something wrong.

as with all classes you wanna keep force up and try to never go down lower 55% of your force for beter incombat regeneration of force,apart from saber strike and deflecting white hits the saber is more of an estatic kind of thing like an talisman in other games it does still provide you with additional stats±endurance,willpower ,power crit surge or alacrity,depending on mods in your weapon,

if you do run out of force in that case i suggest you run op to the boss,mob,or enemy player then to just stand like afk waiting to regain force and saber strike the target and you will see that your force comes back slightly faster,after all that little bit of saberstrike dmg might be meaning just the amount of dmg that is needed to kill the boss at the end??

 

They're not saying that they don't know what the saber is for, they're saying it should be used for more than just a stat stick.

[Darthalargus]

Hey! How about the Sage/Sorcerer get their very own lightsaber form? It would be like a very elegant kind of lightsaber form. Something to use when the opponent comes too close, and you can use the lightsaber form to either damage and stun, or push back him/her. Wouldn't that be cool?

[NovemberAllthing]

not bad ideas but personally i rather have a covert lightsaber so i can just use my force ablities on my sorc without my saber out

 

I would like to either not have my saber out or if it is there for the deflect chance give me a visual option like a staff.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/obiwanhood.png

(Obi-Wan Original concept art....) for those about to cry that staves shouldn't be in the game.

[branmakmuffin]

So, Willpower lets me strike harder with my Lightsabre ? I hurt enemies much more with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ? I actually do more damage with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ?

 

To put it mildly, that's not very logical.

So then what's your answer re: Assassins? What stats are called is irrelevant, just the arbitrary label the game uses. They could have just called them "Endurance and The Other One."

[Master-Nala]

So, Willpower lets me strike harder with my Lightsabre ? I hurt enemies much more with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ? I actually do more damage with my Lightsabre when I put Willpower into it ?

 

To put it mildly, that's not very logical.

 

It's your main stat. It could be called anything. It would be better IMO, if you had a more generic name like "Force Aptitude" but it really doesn't matter.

 

And even worse, to think that Bioware programmed this game with this non-logic ...

 

Most MMOs do this now, while I agree its silly, it's fairly common.

 

My current question is : If I use a tech weapon, and cunning supports the damage of tech weapons - would it help to have more cunning that my non-tech-supporting main stat ?

 

Cunning supports tech ABILITIES for Troopers, but not weapon damage. But since Aim improves both tech abilities and all damage for troopers, it's better to just stack Aim. Any Cunning you have should be ancillary. For Smugglers it is the exact opposite. They get an improvement in ranged damage from Aim, but they get an improvement in both damage and tech abilities from Cunning so they should always just stack that. Any Aim should be from ancillary sources such as datacrons.

 

Force users get no benefit from Cunning or Aim at all.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Master-Nala

[gorstram]

Good idea.

 

Replace Project/Shock with a saber throw. Shadows/Sins can boomerang theirs.

 

This is the best idea out of this thread. I don't think sages/sorcs would miss their insta-cast boulder/zap, if they could throw their saber through the enemy's chest.

[J-Sheridan]

The Jedi Sage could end up using the saber as a replacement for a saber entirely. Their entire concept is the use of force TK. Instead of throwing pebbles at someone or pulling magic rocks out of the floor. Have them use TK to control the lightsaber at range.

 

As for the lightsaber in general: I would not mind seeing some sort of execution style attack being added that mimics Yoda hurling a lightsaber through the chest but gameplay wise that is going to be an issue.

Personally, I find the lightsabers in this game completely underwhelming because they are relegated to being glowing bats rather than the movie awesome cut-through-anything and deflect-everything style.

 

If you changed them to a staff like Gandalf's it would not make a difference and you could have animations where the player is channeling abilities through the staff.