XP Overload

[Moormur]

Whoaah there, Bioware. Between the Rest XP, the 5% guild XP bonus, the NEW extra 5% XP bonus for guilds, and whatever else you get through consumables, I feel like the game has been literally cramming XP down my throat these days. I am outleveling content at ridiculous paces. To be fair, using an XP consumable is a choice (and I stopped using them very quickly when I found out how fast I was growing), as is a cantina for Rest XP (though I may point out that the Fleets are almost entirely Rest XP zones...you get it from just walking around in there), as is the now 10% bonus you get from guilds, but I feel like it's getting out of control. Am I supposed to quit my guild just to enjoy the content at-level? I enjoy playing my character, learning the skills, and being challenged. It's tough to do that when I am consistently 3 or 4 levels above the NPCs I fight against.

 

I'll give you an example. On my Trooper, I gained a whole level and a half doing just Hammer Station and Athiss. Then, I did the PVP daily and got almost all the way to the next level. Mind you, I was already a level above my story quest at that point, so now I was nearly 3. So when I went back to questing, I was pretty mindlessly hopping on a speeder and just motoring through from one place to the next, able to just fly right past most mobs because they were doing inconsequential damage. It really wasn't a challenge, and wasn't much fun.

 

Maybe I'm a bit crazy, but I like it when a game is tough. Too many crybabies will go out of their way to avoid a situation where their character might actually DIE once or twice while they figure out the best strategy. I also enjoy exploring the maps and the story, letting things unfold at a natural pace in line with my character's skill level. So when I am able to just bypass whole planets, I get a little sad. Yes, you could say that I could still do those quests, but if you are telling me that then you are missing the point. It's not just about seeing a planet or following a storyline; the game is meant to be a whole package, an 'experience.' They may as well just give people who already have a max-level a button to auto-level to 55 and be done with it, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy the game.

[Rankyn]

Use less than top-end gear and the challenge will remain.

Try it without your companion.

[Sepuljer]

Use less than top-end gear and the challenge will remain.

Try it without your companion.

 

This works. Additionally, you could try not doing those Dalies and FPs in between story missions. I, for example, have NEVER done a single FP, Daily, Warzone, or Heroic mission on any of the 3 level 50 characters I currently have. Even doing this, I manage to keep up with the story content quite fine, always being at just the right level to have the game be a challenge and not completely easy-mode.

[Greenify]

How the **** can you stand doing the side quests on multiple toons? I can only just stomach the flashpoints.

[Sepuljer]

How the **** can you stand doing the side quests on multiple toons? I can only just stomach the flashpoints.

 

Space bar ftw!

[OKandrew]

And what about us who are level 50 legacy, have several 55 toons already? We don't care about leveling. Getting to 55 as soon as possible is all that matters after a while.

[oaceen]

rest exp doesn't build that quickly, so as long as you don't log out in a cantina, on your ship, or on fleet, i don't see that being much of an issue.

 

but that has been in the game from the beginning and is a staple in many MMOs.

 

but you even said you stopped using the consumables and stopped getting rest exp.

 

so that just leaves guild exp, and honestly, i don't see how 5-10% is all that big of a deal. if someone told me they were going to quit my guild just so they could level 10% slower, i would probably think they were joking.

[annabethchase]

And what about us who are level 50 legacy, have several 55 toons already? We don't care about leveling. Getting to 55 as soon as possible is all that matters after a while.

 

That's what the boosts are for. But for those of us who enjoy playing the whole game, we do outlevel content quite quickly.

 

I don't guild up and avoid rested xp whenever possible.

[TrillOG-]

And what about us who are level 50 legacy, have several 55 toons already? We don't care about leveling. Getting to 55 as soon as possible is all that matters after a while.

This. After leveling countless alts this is a blessing. I couldn't level more without all the xp bonuses.

[ChuangTzu]

I personally can't wait for the double xp weekends, I have 8 50+ toons and I don't want to have to do all those side quests. So just being able to lvl through a planet doing ur class quest and sometimes the world quest is great for me.

[teclado]

No. It takes forever and a day to level a character. I don't see how anybody would actually enjoy doing all of the same side quests for the 5th time. Making it take even longer would make the side quests even more mandatory than they already are. If the goal is to make more people quit the game, you're on the right track. Double XP weekends are my only relief - otherwise I would not bother.

 

Just don't log off in a rest area. Don't worry, it will slow WAY down that way. You will be constantly under-leveled. When I leveled my first character (sentinel), it took me about 6 months (I didn't know about rested XP, so I always just logged off out in the field). I was constantly wondering how in the world I was supposed to keep up. At that rate, it would take me four years to level one of each class.

Edited June 17, 2013 by teclado

[Caelrie]

How bout we suggest a compromise to make both camps happy?

 

Bump the XP consumables to 200%. Get rid of rest and guild xp bonuses.

[branmakmuffin]

How the **** can you stand doing the side quests on multiple toons? I can only just stomach the flashpoints.

How the heck do you stand running the same few instances over and over and over and over ...?

 

Point is, everyone is different.

[OddballEasyEight]

Ok, so lets assume you dont use rested XP, XP boosts and legacy XP increases.

And lets assume that you are part of a guild large enough to give you +10% xp.

 

How is that "cramming xp down your throat" precisely. A 10% XP increase should be hardly noticable!

 

And if it really is that annoying for you, unsub.

As a Preferred player, you get less XP so you should get exactly the "challenge" you so crave. You will be able to play the game at the slowest leveling pace possible. Especially if you leave your guild, or make a smaller guild with your friends.

 

The challenge you seek is possible, but you will have to look for it since the game (thank god!) isnt made to level up as slowly as possible, unless you actively take steps to make it so.

 

The game wasnt designed to play ALL the sidequests, ALL the planetary quests and ALL the flashpoints every time you level up a toon. There is more content than needed simply so that you can level up without doing all of it, thus making it possible to get some variation in your next playthrough.

Edited June 17, 2013 by OddballEasyEight

[Aikura]

Many of the responses against the OP’s statement that xp gain is excessive come from players with whole platoons already at the level cap, with comments like “How can you stand doing only those quests for the 5th time?” Well, what about the first four times? What about players who are experiencing the core content for the first time? What about players with different playstyles who aren’t merely set on levelling every class to the cap and then sitting around on fleet? /hyperbole

 

Don’t get me wrong, to each her own, and if your playstyle requires you to race to the end game before you can “start playing”, then more power to you. As branmakmuffin said, everyone is different. But it is a curiosity to me, even kind of backwards, that the game should be engineered to that end.

 

I believe the xp gain is excessive. To those who cannot grasp why this is a problem, being overlevelled degrades the game experience by:

a) diminishing the level of challenge; and

b) diminishing the sense of reward.

 

I’ve seen quite a few of these threads now, and a host of helpful suggestions varying from “just do the gray quests, what are you complaining about” to “just equip low-level gear/dismiss you companion/deliberately play badly, what are you complaining about”. While those suggestions may achieve the end of being able to experience the content and still (technically) have a challenging game, it’s counter-intuitive to what makes playing a game fun. It actually takes the basics of gaming and flips them on their heads: typically, you spend time, effort and thought on improving your character to keep pace with the difficulty curve of the game. This tickles the reward centres in the brain and may be interpreted as ‘fun’. You’re instead asking us to spend time, effort and thought on handicapping our characters so that the difficulty curve keeps pace with us. See why it seems backwards?

 

TL;DR: The game should be balanced so that players are always creatively seeking an edge to progress faster, rather than having to dream up ways to handicap their characters to progress slower and keep pace with the difficulty curve.

 

Best suggestion I’ve seen: Give xp consumables a major boost for those who want to play that way, and ditch the double xp weekends and other imposed bonuses.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Aikura

[SithKoriandr]

If you forgo using XP Boosts, even with rested xp (which doesn't build up that quickly) and guild xp, you will level at a pace that keeps you just fine with side quests, class and planet storylines.

[Soluss]

10% xp boost is not that big. The game has always had a fast level pace. Part of its downfall, in the beginning, imo. Saying that, youll have to live with it. Either you can avoid some of the side quests or don't do the dungeons until later in level. I hit 50 as I hit illum today, on an alt. I didn't do any dungeons along the way and I skipped like 2 bonus series. I also skipped part of Corellia, not much but part of it. I personally cant stand doing the side quests again but you enjoy it so I can understand. The 10% thing isn't really that much though. Think about it... if you need 500k xp then its only 50k xp you got extra along the way to that level. That is peanuts. It is not whats over leveling you.

 

Whats over leveling you is doing the dungeons. Its always been this way. My first toon, and I started in beta, I did everything... solo quests, x2, x4, multiple dungeon runs. I was over leveled so much that I skipped the last 2 pre illum planets except story quests. If they did not design it this way then the solo players would have a real rough time. They would not be able to level enough without doing groups. Some people just cant stand doing groups so it has to be this way or they alienate a solo playstyle.

[Knockerz]

I need more xp. I hate to say it, but I can only stomach leveling my 50's as is without the double xp because they have nice level 50 gear and can run 50 dailies to make credits. However, my 42 lvl bounty hunter I'm having a very hard time leveling her. Today I log in and only spent like 15-20 minutes before I got bored and log off. This double xp is what I need to get through the leveling on my bh merc.

 

Speaking of leveling, it isn't that bad in this game. I just hit a brick wall in pso2 and I can tell you that leveling in swtor is like a paradise. I spent all day yesterday leveling on pso2 and I only managed like one or two levels from 23-25. Also the bosses are hard unlike in swtor where you can practically face roll through single player bosses, but in pso2 yesterday i quit early cause I got frustrated with a boss. Actually, I already killed the bosses two times, but I was redoing boss and instance for a third quest, but I screw up and got killed. A second attempted would have required a re-clear of the instance, which I didn't want to do so I quit. I never had that happen in swtor. Only in early bc did bosses and instance frustrate me. Thus, I personally think swtor is better for casual play, but pso2 is in Japanese so I'm using it to practice.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Knockerz

[Moormur]

Thank you all for some very constructive ideas in this thread! I appreciate this being an actually civil conversation, lol, as forums tend to degenerate. So well on ya!

 

Use less than top-end gear and the challenge will remain.

Try it without your companion.

 

This is a good idea. I hadn't thought of gear, to be honest. I will try that and see how it goes. In terms of companions, however it wouldn't necessarily work (and this is my personal playstyle, I can totally see why it would work for others and not me) as I tend to gravitate to healers and tanks, and it helps to have companions out. Plus, it sort of goes against the idea of experiencing the content as designed. But I love the gear idea! Gonna try greens only on my next toon!

 

How the **** can you stand doing the side quests on multiple toons? I can only just stomach the flashpoints.

 

Allow me to explain how I've been playing the game. In general, since launch until about the launch of the CM, I could do all the quests on a planet plus the story and have enough XP to essentially skip the next planet, just doing the story quests, and then be able to enjoy the story and quests on the third planet. This would let me sort of leap from around so that I wasn't doing _every_single_quest on every character. Throw in the bonus quests from time to time, and to be honest there are whole planets that I still haven't done, even now on my fifth character. Yeah, that would be annoying. How it is now, I seem to be completely outleveling content so that I'm hardly able to do any planets because, coming off the starter worlds and a round or two of Black Talon/Esseles, I've already practically outleveled Coruscant or DK, and that just snowballs with all the XP we get. And, as someone else said, doing the same FP over and over could be looked on the same way. Again, this my personal playstyle. I know not everyone plays the way I do.

 

And what about us who are level 50 legacy, have several 55 toons already? We don't care about leveling. Getting to 55 as soon as possible is all that matters after a while.

 

Yeah, that was something I mentioned in my original post. I totally sympathize with this playstyle, too. Perhaps some happy medium, as someone suggested:

 

How bout we suggest a compromise to make both camps happy?

 

Bump the XP consumables to 200%. Get rid of rest and guild xp bonuses.

 

Or, as I mentioned in my OP, some sort of auto-level button for those who really don't care and just want to be 55. Doesn't WOW do this? I haven't played it, but I had a roommate who did and I seem to remember something like that. My comment there is that you wouldn't necessarily know how to play your class when you get all those skills at once and haven't used them before, but that's a separate discussion.

 

Just don't log off in a rest area. Don't worry, it will slow WAY down that way. You will be constantly under-leveled. When I leveled my first character (sentinel), it took me about 6 months (I didn't know about rested XP, so I always just logged off out in the field). I was constantly wondering how in the world I was supposed to keep up. At that rate, it would take me four years to level one of each class.

 

I don't know your history, but I would assume you made that first character before we started getting all the XP bonuses. I would challenge you to try that same character again and not motor to level quickly. On my latest toon, I went from level 1 to nearly 30 in barely two weeks of casual play. And since then, Bioware added yet another XP guild bonus.

 

I really, really liked the idea of getting rid of bonuses, but giving consumables a MUCH higher bonus. That would make everyone happy (assuming Bioware made consumables a bit more freely available to subscribers...otherwise it wouldn't be fair to those who want to level quickly).

 

Heck, even getting a toggle for the +10% guild XP would make me happy. I can avoid rest XP and consumables, but I shouldn't be punished for being social.

 

Thanks for the discussion. Great stuff!

[Xeperi]

And if it really is that annoying for you, unsub.

As a Preferred player, you get less XP so you should get exactly the "challenge" you so crave. You will be able to play the game at the slowest leveling pace possible. Especially if you leave your guild, or make a smaller guild with your friends.

 

The challenge you seek is possible, but you will have to look for it since the game (thank god!) isnt made to level up as slowly as possible, unless you actively take steps to make it so.

 

 

^^^^This.

[chuuuuucky]

I am not shure if you only get rest xp from standing in rest areas. I abandoned my soldier which was my first character with nearly no rest xp in the middle of nowhere on tattooin. When i picked him up again he had full rest xp.

Has anyone experienced the same?

[Xeperi]

Odd, I find my toons do not level fast enough. I would consider my gaming style to be a mix of heavy story + light rp + powergaming. That said, I enjoy exploring the little details on planets once I have finished them and can spend some "off time" going around gathering crafting materials. Kind of like tor toon tourism. (I said it first ).

 

But when I am into the story I am not feeling like being a tourist, I am feeling like getting to the next part of the story. Because it is that good. You don't see James Bond, Frodo, Luke Skywalker, or whoever doing every little possible mission they can. Imagine how boring it would be to watch 8 hours of Luke killing a bunch of things between point a and b, so he can click on point b, and run back to point a to hear some officer or npc tell him how great he is.

 

So I just do the storyline and the odd fp, and help friends with heroics- mainly because they are my friends. I never complete any planet unless I am running with my friends. The social element with everything that swtor gives you as context, is to me, one of the best parts of the game. That is true for any game but especially so with swtor because it is a superior game (imo) with really much more to talk about in terms of the game its self, the movies, the details on the planets. My main stood with a friend for about an hour once at a window on the Imperial Fleet, just talking and gazing at the stars and the ships that make up the fleet as they orbit around the central station.

 

I am subbed, in a large guild, and get a ton of rest xp. Yet, sticking mainly to the storyline, my character is consistently under leveled. No complaints there, yes the challenge is fun.

 

I think if you do some of the side quests, the heroics, the fps, some pvp, you level right on schedule or a little beneath. I think that is how the game balances people who like to do every quest with people who don't.

[Knockerz]

I am not shure if you only get rest xp from standing in rest areas. I abandoned my soldier which was my first character with nearly no rest xp in the middle of nowhere on tattooin. When i picked him up again he had full rest xp.

Has anyone experienced the same?

 

You get rested xp bonus regardless of where you log off, except in a rested area you gain rested bonus faster.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Knockerz

[idnewton]

One of these days, you and everyone else is going to have to realize that doing every single existing quest on every single toon is a terrible mistake. You have nothing to look forward to whatsoever on any new toon of the same faction, besides class quests. Leaving quests for the next toons is definitely a wise choice, unless you prefer to level solely through PvP and flashpoints (which some do). You're outleveling content because you're doing it all. It's like saying "I know I spacebar every convo, but this game's story sucks!" Self-inflicted. The game does not have to adapt to you. "I can't survive when I keep holding my breath, life is broken, please patch it!" Well ya know, maybe if you didn't hold your breath, you'd find that 'surviving' kind of thing a whole lot easier. When you reach a new level, move on to another area. It's not complicated. You'll find yourself enjoying the game a whole lot more, and leveling a whole lot faster.

[SethMorganaa]

Hi there,

 

I think to keep everyone happy, and this has been mentioned in another thread I have read some weeks ago, although i cant remember where, what about an XP on/off button?

 

You could even have XP off/half/on etc...

 

I think that way, everyone can be happy, and if you dont want to use, you can have to click on it.

 

I understand the OP feeling very well, but can also see other peoples points also.

 

An interesting topic, and I hope Bio sees this, and thinks on it.

 

Cheers