Dread Guards Nightmare overtuned

[FridgeLM]

Also, *I* am hitting 4800 at the beginning of the encounter...

 

rofl

 

Okay, for 2.5 seconds with bloodthirst and an adrenal when your tracer missile or whatever crits, you'll have 4800 dps. Super useful to know, thanks, good luck sustaining that.

 

The fact stays the same: Your DPS isn't sufficient and that is the main complaint in this thread.

 

wrong, the enrage timer is too short, and we're putting out perfectly reasonable numbers for an 8 man group. The issue is the boss is tuned to be impossible with current enrage timer.

 

Top DPS of 2400 is low. Very low.

 

For a 16 man with double the healing but not double the incoming damage and with less of a chance of being targeted by effects that force the player to move, sure (also it wasn't 2400).

 

For an 8 man it's pretty much in line with what can be expected.

 

When Lightning fields happen, you move unnecessarily.

 

If I move it's because the boss uses a knockback. I'm in range to be hit by the knockback because healing is so tight in 8 man that I need to be in a sorc puddle and in range for recuperative nanotech. The only other time I move for lightning field is when I roll to avoid damage.

 

Instead of being pre-positioned (and turreting), you're next to some people and you choose to literally run through someone to get away from him. Why?

 

Don't know who you're talking about here, but it's not me.

 

Making excuses to somehow justify lower DPS is incredibly childish.

 

It's not excuses, it's the realities of 8 man. You're not going to be pulling the same numbers when you have half (or less if you're running 5) the amount of healers because you will have to heavily adjust your strategy to compensate - I guarantee you our players are not being hit half as hard as yours.

 

How about you at least prove me wrong and take my advice?

 

Here's my challenge to you: try 8 man tonight and come try to justify your previous position.

 

I'd caution against speaking from your high horse if you don't know the playing experience of people you're talking to. I've been raiding since 2006-7 with a pretty good resume in WoW, DNT has raiders who have been raiding longer than that and I guarantee our GM has better raiding "credentials" (if you want to call them that) than you do. We all used our judgment guided by experience to say this fight was undoable, or so close to it as to make our efforts wasted this week.

 

You coming here and trying to conflate your 16 man experience with ours in 8 man doesn't hold a lot of weight. Sorry.

[varietasplus]

Every developer has to make a decision who they wish to please. Casual, regular (normal, "classical") or dedicated (hard core) players. There is no game that could please all. Depending on the game, focusing on casuals or regular players usually results higher profit while focusing on HC grants reputation. Softening up role playing or tycoon games is a good example how the market changes direction towards more potential players, leaving displeased minority (former players) behind.

 

The way I see it, there are 3 different type of guilds in SWTOR.

1. HC guilds with the best players already having been geared up, waiting for new content .

2. Semi-HC guilds with very good players geared up quite good, but not full set.

3. Casual (social) guilds with average players, falling behind in gear.

 

Now, which players does Bioware wish to please? My guess is HC players are in minority, while dedicated players will end up sooner or later in semi-HC guilds if they are dissatisfied with their progression in a casual guild. In my oppinion, a good balance means that semi-HC guilds can kill 2/3 of the bosses with their current gear. With every week passing, they gear themselves up with tokens and commendations and after two months, they start to progress, ultimately killing the last boss with a mixture of previous and new tier of gear. They should be able to gear their progression group as much as possible before the new content comes.

 

I believe a dedicated casual player may become a semi-HC without difficulties in the right guild, so if I was the developer, I would focus on semi-HC players. To please them, the price must be paid though: HC players will finish the new content in a week, while casual guilds will find it too difficult. It is not an objective truth, only my oppinion, but from this perspective TFB HM and S&V HM was balanced well.

 

As for TFB NM, I do believe HC guilds should be able to clear it in a week. Also, the balance between enrage timer and proper execution of a fight is very important, the difference between HM and NM should never be solely about one or the other. We will know soon enough if we were simply unaware of a certain mechanism in the fight or the enrage timer was flawed by design. If the case turned out to be the latter, it would really look bad on Bioware though and would definitely raise questions about the efficiency of PTS. Regardless, a response from the developers would be nice, the least I would expect they confirm their team manages to do the bossfight in full 72 gear.

[countpopeula]

If you watch my stream you'll notice it, but you're too naive to believe that anyone can outperform your ragtag crew.

 

Blah Blah Blah Blah

 

Showing that HM SV was cleared does not provide any value to the thread or any sort of justification as to why DPS is low. Now it seems people are just flinging mud hoping something will stick. Dps is low. That is the entirety of the thread. /discuss.

 

All of your so called solid fact based counterpoints are straight opinions with no substantial backing.

 

I burst to 6k on my sentinel in Combat for 15 seconds, what's your point? That doesn't mean you're suddenly a big deal that you bursted that high out of the holeshot. Are you trying to say that Bioware actually has intended or tested any of this? They have a Public Test Server for a reason, so they don't have to test it and can get free feedback. It's smart, but without a dedicated and elite level in house testing team (which they can't afford because hell, they can't even pay for a 10 man developer team anymore) you're going to get skewed feedback because along with the top tier players, you're going to get really, really bad ones testing things. I can throw out a bunch of reasons why napkin math isn't reliable, I went with the simplistic version of "Hey I did this simple calc, it was wrong" as a one stop shop to back up my point. It's not the only one I have, you want more?

EDIT: Some of us DO in fact put in hours upon hours of parsing and testing to figure out what works best not theoretically but live in game. I do a little math but again, it's just to establish a baseline for my actual parsing. If someone recommends something, I try it. Not once, but for hours. If it doesn't work, I discard it and report my findings. You can sim rotations forever, if you can't actually do that rotation it's worthless data. Parsing gets you the OMG RL XP to actually be able to practice what you preach.

 

I'm referencing our previous achievements to show that we do in fact actually know what we're doing as players. You missed the part where TGO was World third for the Warstalker title by the way and skipped right to trying to "win" this thread with a S/V irrelevance reference.

Edited June 13, 2013 by countpopeula

[Astarica]

There's no way any high end encounter is tested internally. That'd imply that all MMORPG companies secretly employ teams of players that are better than the best known MMORPG players, as these guys would have to be able to beat absolutely every encounter while testing, including stuff that's obviously broken. The alternative would be that this super secret team is useless as if there exists some encounter they cannot beat and yet pushed live anyway, that'd mean clearly nobody actually cares what they have to say internally. Either way the conclusion is that internal tuning is impossible.

 

Now being a good developer means you can make better armchair decisions about things you ought to be able to do, but in the end they're still just guesses. Throughout MMORPG history you can see raids that totally miss the mark on either side of the spectrum. There's no grand plan in tuning these encounters. If they exist it implies the guys who designed these encounter can also beat them, which is absurd as it is totally not the job of the developer to actually beat the said content. Now you can argue whether something should be beatable by 1% or 5% or 50% of the population and that determines how exactly you tweak those parameters, but 0% is definitely the wrong number. Keep in mind 0% might be borderilne okay for a challenge encounter (like say Yogg+0), but there's no way this encounter qualifies for such. The fact that people can beat the encounters after this one is definitive proof that there's no way this encounter is intended to be beaten by 0%.

[Aerro]

Get some sleep.

 

I want to see that stream and no dozy merc napping halfway through it.

 

I didn't get any sleep. Took a cold shower because its hot here... then my girlfriend came home with her friend so sleep is something I will get tonight after the raid.

 

Fixing pizza rolls. Let the games begin.

[Aerro]

Okay, for 2.5 seconds with bloodthirst and an adrenal when your tracer missile or whatever crits, you'll have 4800 dps. Super useful to know, thanks, good luck sustaining that.

 

So you jump to conclusions and deem yet another concept impossible just because *you* can't do it. Stop being childish.

 

wrong, the enrage timer is too short, and we're putting out perfectly reasonable numbers for an 8 man group. The issue is the boss is tuned to be impossible with current enrage timer.

 

No, you're putting out subpar numbers. If comparing your DPS to other 8man streams, you're still under. Whats the excuse now? That its because you're not EU?

 

 

For a 16 man with double the healing but not double the incoming damage and with less of a chance of being targeted by effects that force the player to move, sure (also it wasn't 2400).

 

For an 8 man it's pretty much in line with what can be expected.

 

Yes, go watch the wipes you had. Top DPS being around 2400 is a clear indication that DPS is not sufficient for the current content. It is not in line, as another 8man guild is outparsing you by the numbers I've even indicated. Notice that the same 8man is not here claiming things are impossible.

 

 

If I move it's because the boss uses a knockback. I'm in range to be hit by the knockback because healing is so tight in 8 man that I need to be in a sorc puddle and in range for recuperative nanotech. The only other time I move for lightning field is when I roll to avoid damage.

 

Stop bringing up "its because its 8man." People have already pointed out that you're making unnecessary movements. I'm not the only one aware of your incapability of understanding a simple notion.

 

 

 

Don't know who you're talking about here, but it's not me.

 

Delusional.

 

 

 

It's not excuses, it's the realities of 8 man. You're not going to be pulling the same numbers when you have half (or less if you're running 5) the amount of healers because you will have to heavily adjust your strategy to compensate - I guarantee you our players are not being hit half as hard as yours.

 

Heavily adjust what strategy? What are you adjusting because you have less healers? Its less people overall so clearly you will have less healers. Also, a lot of our wipes are due to tanks because 2 shot. 10k slashes + 2 other abilities going off within a single timeframe. Stop making assumptions when you can't even understand a simple concept such as low DPS = hitting enrage.

 

Here's my challenge to you: try 8 man tonight and come try to justify your previous position.

 

I'd caution against speaking from your high horse if you don't know the playing experience of people you're talking to. I've been raiding since 2006-7 with a pretty good resume in WoW, DNT has raiders who have been raiding longer than that and I guarantee our GM has better raiding "credentials" (if you want to call them that) than you do. We all used our judgment guided by experience to say this fight was undoable, or so close to it as to make our efforts wasted this week.

 

Your judgement was because *you* guys couldn't do it that it was impossible. You guys had a 44% enrage with low DPS. Pick it up and its a success. Also, I guarantee your GM does not have better raiding credentials than I do, but that isn't the point of this discussion. We are pointing out *your* mistakes and incapability of doing sufficient DPS for the class you play. If your GM wants to join the fray and have an epeen content- have at it. Having a handful of world first kills (though not clears) with top world finishes (as in top 10 or 15 every tier) is actually larger than 99.7% of the MMO community, as indicated by blizzard last year during a conference- specifying why LFR and now Flexible Content is coming out, because the overall end game wasn't accessibly by nearly all of the player base.

 

Being within the top .3% in progression as a past history kind of puts my points above yours- which seem to be childish remarks that try to take shots at the dark at myself. This is not a matter of 8 vs 16, and I never made it out to be. You keep bringing it up.

 

You coming here and trying to conflate your 16 man experience with ours in 8 man doesn't hold a lot of weight. Sorry.

 

Again, when have I came in and said "lol 16 is harder you guys are bad."? At first I said I didn't want to get involved and that I see a kill in the near future for you guys if you step up the DPS. Again, the first minute of the fight is near identical regardless of raid size, however, you try keeping all 16 raiders 12m a part during a phase that *will* one shot you... compared to having 8 people who seem to run through each other on an overly large playing field.

 

Your DPS is low. Its that simple. Please, give a valid explanation as to how 8man is hindering your DPS. Is it hard to multi-task for you? If so, raiding is not for you. HM SV was an illusion. It was false success given to your ego that you seemed to feed off of. Even then, your numbers in SV didn't compare to the majority of snipers, as indicated by TorParse. If you're so "great" and the golden child of your class- then please explain why so many others out perform you on any given basis? Is it because your 8man is special and gets a 20% DPS reduction?

 

No. You're just ignorant of the fact that you need to improve, and I feel sorry for your guild that someone like you is holding them back. Dom is always trying to up his DPS. Nothing is good enough for him. Hes always striving to succeed, and thats what raiding is all about. You are happy with your performance and want content to meld around *your* capabilities. That is the battle cry of a casual.

[Korse]

I'm sure nobody is going to give 2 c***ps about what I say here, but what the heck.

 

The problem with this thread is the infighting and the attitude.

 

The first couple of pages sound like, "Well if WE can't do it, then it's impossible"

 

I went into NM TfB last night. Our group made it to the Dread Guard and failed hard. I can say with certainty that my group isn't capable of beating it at this time. But I'm not going to jump in this thread and proclaim that this means that nobody can.

 

Tam came in with some math. If anyone has read his posts in this forum, it's pretty obvious that he likes math and likes to figure things out in this game. Rather than providing more data (which is like food for mathematicians) the general response was, "you haven't been in the instance so your opinion is worthless"

 

Someone even snidely commented (Karl I think) that Tam's group would probably never even see enrage (implying that his group must be so bad that they wouldn't be able to handle the mechanics to even get to that point).

 

How much better would it have been to provide more actual DATA. Combat logs, or something? And less sniping and generally being nasty. Somehow that seems more productive than, "if WE can't do it, then all you poor fools are going to die in a fire, ha ha ha"

 

Well said.

[DJ_Sicosis]

rofl

 

Okay, for 2.5 seconds with bloodthirst and an adrenal when your tracer missile or whatever crits, you'll have 4800 dps. Super useful to know, thanks, good luck sustaining that.

 

 

 

wrong, the enrage timer is too short, and we're putting out perfectly reasonable numbers for an 8 man group. The issue is the boss is tuned to be impossible with current enrage timer.

 

 

 

For a 16 man with double the healing but not double the incoming damage and with less of a chance of being targeted by effects that force the player to move, sure (also it wasn't 2400).

 

For an 8 man it's pretty much in line with what can be expected.

 

 

 

If I move it's because the boss uses a knockback. I'm in range to be hit by the knockback because healing is so tight in 8 man that I need to be in a sorc puddle and in range for recuperative nanotech. The only other time I move for lightning field is when I roll to avoid damage.

 

 

 

Don't know who you're talking about here, but it's not me.

 

 

 

It's not excuses, it's the realities of 8 man. You're not going to be pulling the same numbers when you have half (or less if you're running 5) the amount of healers because you will have to heavily adjust your strategy to compensate - I guarantee you our players are not being hit half as hard as yours.

 

 

 

Here's my challenge to you: try 8 man tonight and come try to justify your previous position.

 

I'd caution against speaking from your high horse if you don't know the playing experience of people you're talking to. I've been raiding since 2006-7 with a pretty good resume in WoW, DNT has raiders who have been raiding longer than that and I guarantee our GM has better raiding "credentials" (if you want to call them that) than you do. We all used our judgment guided by experience to say this fight was undoable, or so close to it as to make our efforts wasted this week.

 

You coming here and trying to conflate your 16 man experience with ours in 8 man doesn't hold a lot of weight. Sorry.

 

Don't feed the trolls who think they can push better numbers. Your sustained DPS on Heirad was 2700-2800, MORE THAN REASONABLE, for this encounter. All the counter arguments to this thread and seriously coming down to ignorance of the fight and denial that their wee little teams are not going to clear this. There is no way in hell, you can expect DPS in a mechanically heavy fight such as the DGs to sustain over 3k DPS, which is CLEARLY needed to by the end, meet this theoretical number of 2600 or some ****.

 

KBN, Take your theories and go plug yourself into Torparse or Mox and please show us YOUR incredibly based numbers in this fight, so that your estimate on what YOU THINK the DPS should be sustaining during the fight will finally be justified by your complete and utter failure to clear them -.-.

Edited June 14, 2013 by DJ_Sicosis

[e_nk_ay]

Your judgement was because *you* guys couldn't do it that it was impossible. You guys had a 44% enrage with low DPS. Pick it up and its a success. Also, I guarantee your GM does not have better raiding credentials than I do, but that isn't the point of this discussion. We are pointing out *your* mistakes and incapability of doing sufficient DPS for the class you play. If your GM wants to join the fray and have an epeen content- have at it. Having a handful of world first kills (though not clears) with top world finishes (as in top 10 or 15 every tier) is actually larger than 99.7% of the MMO community, as indicated by blizzard last year during a conference- specifying why LFR and now Flexible Content is coming out, because the overall end game wasn't accessibly by nearly all of the player base.

.

 

Yay, I love epeen contests. 16 US Firsts with Death and Taxes in WoW, 15 World Firsts. After DnT died, we rerolled horde for fun and cleared the rest of the content until ICC. In ICC we merged with Aurora to form <Vigil>, which I had been a part of for every tier until SWTOR came out. Vigil, as you can see on WoWProgress for those tiers, was consistently World top 20, peaking at World 3rd (with an exception during Dragon Soul).

 

Yay epeen. But why are we discussing this?

Edited June 14, 2013 by e_nk_ay

[DJ_Sicosis]

Yay, I love epeen contests. 16 US Firsts with Death and Taxes in WoW, 15 World Firsts. After DnT died, we rerolled horde for fun and cleared the rest of the content until ICC. In ICC we merged with Aurora to form <Vigil>, which I had been a part of for every tier until SWTOR came out. Vigil, as you can see on WoWProgress for those tiers, was consistently World top 20, peaking at World 3rd (with an exception during Dragon Soul).

 

Yay epeen. But why are we discussing this?

 

Again, the trolls are running out of fodder to nom nom on, due to their ignorance on that ACTUAL topic of this thread. They are now just trying to cause some pissing match because they are backed into a corner when someone with a video finally validated sustained DPS during the fight minus drop off on enrage 2500-2600 DPS....completely nullifying their idiotic attempts to "theorize" some fairy tale numbers because they consider themselves "number crunchers".

[Aerro]

Yay, I love epeen contents. 14 US Firsts with Death and Taxes in WoW, 15 World Firsts. After DnT died, we rerolled horde for fun and cleared the rest of the content until ICC. In ICC we merged with Auroro to form <Vigil>, which I had been a part of for every tier until SWTOR came out. Vigil, as you can see on WoWProgress for those tiers, was consistently World top 20, peaking at World 3rd (with an exception during Dragon Soul).

 

Yay epeen. But why are we discussing this?

 

Its hard to steal someone elses guild name. The true DnT was actually much more skilled. Knock-offs who weesled their way in means nothing.

 

If you managed to actually do that, then maybe you would realize what true progression means... especially after downing H Rag. Fine tuning DPS? That was necessary. Apparently that slipped the mind of your sniper when you "came" to swtor.

 

Also, his sustained DPS was ~2400... it was only higher when you guys wiped earlier and that was still ~2700. His max DPS was ~1000 less than other snipers. TorParse has over 30 snipers ranked above him on some fights. Yeah. Hes the best.

 

I'm done, because clearly you expect content to just drop while performing with mediocrity. Its not an epeen content. Your guild keeps trying to make that. Instead of looking for solutions, you're shouting that its impossible and giving up. Thats what casuals do. They just quit when something presents a challenge.

 

Its fine, continue what you're doing while everyone else passes you up. I'm sure you'll end up making excuses then, too.

 

There have been plenty of posters trying to figure things out- but your guild just shuts them down as if they're insignificant. Its a shame that a guild exists among this community. WoW lost its community, so I was hoping SWTOR would at least remain positive and work together. Clearly you are proving me wrong, because every simple suggestion given to you is tossed back full force as if no one should even consider questioning the excellence of a mediocre guild.

 

 

(Also I'll point out that your claim to 16 world firsts while your other "DnT member" only raided from 2006-2007.)

 

We all know the story behind your current guild. Also, there exists a Blood Legion on our server. I'm sure its the same people, too.

 

I guess casual is the new hardcore. Have fun.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Aerro

[FridgeLM]

Aerroh, your entire post indicates you haven't watched the video with anything approaching reasonable attention and your reading comprehension sucks.

 

Again, when have I came in and said "lol 16 is harder you guys are bad."?

 

You haven't, but you have said things that indicate you don't understand the differences between the two raid sizes.

 

Specifically, you compared the numbers you're capable of generating to ours, when you're in a situation where your raiders have to move far less than ours because you have at least double our healing but your players aren't being hit anywhere close to twice as hard.

 

If your ranged dps is required to stack on Heirad because of healing I'll be very surprised.

 

This is why I'm disregarding your opinion: you're trying to conflate your experience with something that is not alike it and you're completely missing the point of the thread. Players will not pull the same numbers in 8 man that they can in 16 for a number of reasons: positional requirements due to healing, less green motes during doom, higher chance of being targeted by dps-reducing effects (doom, marked for death), and so on.

 

I'm also disregarding your opinion because you seem to think I'm supposed to bow down to your raiding accomplishments (that you don't list).

 

I killed Kil'jaeden and LK Heroic 25 pre-expansion patches. I can't claim any firsts to my memory but I had a good raiding career in WoW - an infinitesimally small portion of the population accomplished those bosses before the wrath and cata patch respectively. I've been ranged dps for all my raiding career and I know what I'm doing - the attempt in the video was not perfect but all mechanics were executed to a point that a kill should have happened. It didn't because the enrage timer is too short. That's the message of this thread.

 

(Also I'll point out that your claim to 16 world firsts while your other "DnT member" only raided from 2006-2007.)

 

I never claimed to be a member of WoW DNT. I also said I started raiding in 2006, I stopped in 2011.

 

If your guildies can pull so much better numbers than ours, why did we get the server first/World 4th Warstalker and you didn't?

Edited June 14, 2013 by FridgeLM

[umbak]

I actually believe this fight is mathematically possible, if un-probable. On 8 man Nim our best attempt was 16% at the eventual wipe 12s after the enrage.

I estimate we needed another 35s to defeat the encounter at the current raid dps we were pushing.

That said on that particular attempt we only had Heriad at 1k hp before the 3rd surging chain/shield (usually we can push him down. If he had died we'd have gained an extra 14s (the bubble was a slow one).

In addition of the 2 of the dooms were on our 2 melee dps instead of the sorc or sniper losing us alot of effective dps up time. Given good RNG we theoretically could have pushed her sub 10% though atm i think the fight requires almost perfect execution in addition to good luck on doom casts and DPS RNG.

I love the progress we've made and its the most fun i've had raiding progression in swtor for a long time and i'd really like it to be kept how it is until some guild manages to down it purely to see how far swtor raiders can push it. That said if a change is in order an extra 25-30s added to the enrage timer would mean the fight is still top notch in tuning but less about lucky RNG streaks to push it down.

Just my 2 cents

Edited June 14, 2013 by umbak

[Ansalem]

Aerro the fight is simply different in 8m to 16m. In 16m because of the extra healing you dont have to run in and stack with melee for them to get heals too like we have to. Also you will notice kolto missiles going out to assist as well as spot heals as needed in emergencies during the fight. You dont have to do that crap in 16m because you have double the healers. As for your dps I watched a couple of pulls chosen did last night in 16m not impressed at all. You didnt even come close to hitting any kind of enrage because you were wiping to mechanics...pretty sad. A dead dpser does zero dps there champ. Also I checked torparse for your recent parses I didnt find any of your attempts last night but saw some from HM SV and TFB from a week ago...again not impressed you arent even pulling the numbers you are claiming in nightmare for your HM parses. By all means though aerro please enter 8m mode and see the differences. In 16m you can blow through the first 2 bosses pretty easily as you didnt seem to be getting targeted with poison puddles or Doom while every single dps in our raid was. Its not fun when a melee gets DOOM and has that dps loss while running around or when an arsenal merc has to go run around in puddles to clear DOOM.

[e_nk_ay]

Its hard to steal someone elses guild name. The true DnT was actually much more skilled. Knock-offs who weesled their way in means nothing.

 

If you managed to actually do that, then maybe you would realize what true progression means... especially after downing H Rag. Fine tuning DPS? That was necessary. Apparently that slipped the mind of your sniper when you "came" to swtor.

 

Also, his sustained DPS was ~2400... it was only higher when you guys wiped earlier and that was still ~2700. His max DPS was ~1000 less than other snipers. TorParse has over 30 snipers ranked above him on some fights. Yeah. Hes the best.

 

I'm done, because clearly you expect content to just drop while performing with mediocrity. Its not an epeen content. Your guild keeps trying to make that. Instead of looking for solutions, you're shouting that its impossible and giving up. Thats what casuals do. They just quit when something presents a challenge.

 

Its fine, continue what you're doing while everyone else passes you up. I'm sure you'll end up making excuses then, too.

 

There have been plenty of posters trying to figure things out- but your guild just shuts them down as if they're insignificant. Its a shame that a guild exists among this community. WoW lost its community, so I was hoping SWTOR would at least remain positive and work together. Clearly you are proving me wrong, because every simple suggestion given to you is tossed back full force as if no one should even consider questioning the excellence of a mediocre guild.

 

 

(Also I'll point out that your claim to 16 world firsts while your other "DnT member" only raided from 2006-2007.)

 

We all know the story behind your current guild. Also, there exists a Blood Legion on our server. I'm sure its the same people, too.

 

I guess casual is the new hardcore. Have fun.

 

Now you're just delusional. Same website, same name I've always had, and in fact I think my Shaman is still tagged to Vigil. I was an officer in DnT for 2 years, as well.

 

After achieving as many firsts as I have in my "raiding career", I've gotten a good gauge of when to skip bosses and when to keep trying them. We made a judgment call. Good luck in your raid tonight, and keep lying to yourself that we're some knockoff. I'm not sure what's more pathetic - someone who WOULD actually pretend to be another guild, or someone who accuses a guild of doing so.

[Applicator]

Why must bosses be able to be killed first week they are out in existing gear? Perhaps they want you to get a bit more gear from the first boss, optimise mods/enhancements in existing gear, or heaven forbid play better? I'm happy that there are bosses that are actually making people work for them instead of facerolling through them then having people complain that there is not enough content

[countpopeula]

Again, the trolls are running out of fodder to nom nom on, due to their ignorance on that ACTUAL topic of this thread. They are now just trying to cause some pissing match because they are backed into a corner when someone with a video finally validated sustained DPS during the fight minus drop off on enrage 2500-2600 DPS....completely nullifying their idiotic attempts to "theorize" some fairy tale numbers because they consider themselves "number crunchers".

 

Get this man a beer.

[Aerro]

Aerro the fight is simply different in 8m to 16m. In 16m because of the extra healing you dont have to run in and stack with melee for them to get heals too like we have to. Also you will notice kolto missiles going out to assist as well as spot heals as needed in emergencies during the fight. You dont have to do that crap in 16m because you have double the healers. As for your dps I watched a couple of pulls chosen did last night in 16m not impressed at all. You didnt even come close to hitting any kind of enrage because you were wiping to mechanics...pretty sad. A dead dpser does zero dps there champ. Also I checked torparse for your recent parses I didnt find any of your attempts last night but saw some from HM SV and TFB from a week ago...again not impressed you arent even pulling the numbers you are claiming in nightmare for your HM parses. By all means though aerro please enter 8m mode and see the differences. In 16m you can blow through the first 2 bosses pretty easily as you didnt seem to be getting targeted with poison puddles or Doom while every single dps in our raid was. Its not fun when a melee gets DOOM and has that dps loss while running around or when an arsenal merc has to go run around in puddles to clear DOOM.

 

Dom, this conversation is over. Your guild (and yourself) has no place here. If you want to parade around talking about being the best with mediocre DPS- go for it. DnT's level of comprehension is far inferior to what I had originally believed. I leave it at that, as talking to you guys has made me feel even more like a fool that you managed to string me along for this long in hopes of you guys understanding how weak you are in comparison to other guilds.

 

Someone just posted that they nearly had a kill with some bad luck and minor mistakes. You guys did not even come close to that guilds performance, yet you're claiming to be the top.

 

 

Good day, and enjoy skipping bosses to inflate your ego. Also, I sure hope your DPS at least jumps up past 2400 with all the new gear, because its kind of sad that people can play at that low of a skill level.

[FridgeLM]

Dom, this conversation is over. Your guild (and yourself) has no place here. If you want to parade around talking about being the best with mediocre DPS- go for it. DnT's level of comprehension is far inferior to what I had originally believed. I leave it at that, as talking to you guys has made me feel even more like a fool that you managed to string me along for this long in hopes of you guys understanding how weak you are in comparison to other guilds.

 

Someone just posted that they nearly had a kill with some bad luck and minor mistakes. You guys did not even come close to that guilds performance, yet you're claiming to be the top.

 

 

Good day, and enjoy skipping bosses to inflate your ego. Also, I sure hope your DPS at least jumps up past 2400 with all the new gear, because its kind of sad that people can play at that low of a skill level.

 

See above: if we're this bad why did we beat you to warstalker?

 

If we're not the real DNT what is this gallery doing on our website: http://www.dtguilds.com/dntgallery/m/6563285/album/75507

 

Are you this delusional? Or do all your brains go flying out your ears when you're not on your fiefdom on mmo champion?

Edited June 14, 2013 by FridgeLM

[Ansalem]

Dom, this conversation is over. Your guild (and yourself) has no place here. If you want to parade around talking about being the best with mediocre DPS- go for it. DnT's level of comprehension is far inferior to what I had originally believed. I leave it at that, as talking to you guys has made me feel even more like a fool that you managed to string me along for this long in hopes of you guys understanding how weak you are in comparison to other guilds.

 

Someone just posted that they nearly had a kill with some bad luck and minor mistakes. You guys did not even come close to that guilds performance, yet you're claiming to be the top.

 

 

Good day, and enjoy skipping bosses to inflate your ego. Also, I sure hope your DPS at least jumps up past 2400 with all the new gear, because its kind of sad that people can play at that low of a skill level.

 

Nice deflection aerroh. Your parses don't lie and you are not anywhere near the numbers you are claiming in your HM clears on june 5th. I don't see your guild coming anywhere close to downing this. Keep enjoying that laid back carry 16m

[Aerro]

See above: if we're this bad why did we beat you to warstalker?

 

Too busy being a top world guild in WoW.

 

 

Enjoy your day.

[Ansalem]

Hey aerroh....

http://www.torparse.com/a/244570

 

look its that 2400 dps you are mocking...

[dannikj]

I actually believe this fight is mathematically possible, if un-probable. On 8 man Nim our best attempt was 16% at the eventual wipe 12s after the enrage.

I estimate we needed another 35s to defeat the encounter at the current raid dps we were pushing.

That said on that particular attempt we only had Heriad at 1k hp before the 3rd surging chain/shield (usually we can push him down. If he had died we'd have gained an extra 14s (the bubble was a slow one).

In addition of the 2 of the dooms were on our 2 melee dps instead of the sorc or sniper losing us alot of effective dps up time. Given good RNG we theoretically could have pushed her sub 10% though atm i think the fight requires almost perfect execution in addition to good luck on doom casts and DPS RNG.

I love the progress we've made and its the most fun i've had raiding progression in swtor for a long time and i'd really like it to be kept how it is until some guild manages to down it purely to see how far swtor raiders can push it. That said if a change is in order an extra 25-30s added to the enrage timer would mean the fight is still top notch in tuning but less about lucky RNG streaks to push it down.

Just my 2 cents

 

Good job on 16%, I'm sure the "pro guilds" with flawless dps won't believe you though, since this encounter is mathematically impossible, and if you got to 16% that actually sounds completely doable, for the reasons you illustrated.

[Donalj]

Nice to see community and amazing friendship between the apparent "best players".

 

I'm amazed that people are already calling for nerfs on this "impossible" fight.

 

"Oh but the 2nd fight shouldn't be hard hurr durr. I want NIGHTMARE to be easy mode because I'm too casual to improve"

 

Something like 10 days with 6+ hours each day is what it took to kill Firebrand & Stormcaller on 16 man nightmare. We didn't give up and go straight to hard mode because on 1 night of attempts we didn't kill it. We bucked the **** up and played the best we could and used everything we had to kill it.

 

Its pathetic seeing D&T crying about DG being impossible. 16% is the best attempt I've heard of and you "bestguildworld" give up after a best attempt of 44%. Nice.

[dannikj]

Nice to see community and amazing friendship between the apparent "best players".

 

I'm amazed that people are already calling for nerfs on this "impossible" fight.

 

"Oh but the 2nd fight shouldn't be hard hurr durr. I want NIGHTMARE to be easy mode because I'm too casual to improve"

 

Something like 10 days with 6+ hours each day is what it took to kill Firebrand & Stormcaller on 16 man nightmare. We didn't give up and go straight to hard mode because on 1 night of attempts we didn't kill it. We bucked the **** up and played the best we could and used everything we had to kill it.

 

Its pathetic seeing D&T crying about DG being impossible. 16% is the best attempt I've heard of and you "bestguildworld" give up after a best attempt of 44%. Nice.

 

Amazing guilds have no room for improvement.