is sidious really the strongest sith

[Wolfninjajedi]

^This. Sidious is the culmination of thousands of years of Sith teachings. Everyone before him would be just the building blocks for his Empire, and those that come after him are just trying to imitate his Empire.

 

Sidious is the villain of the entire Star Wars universe. For him to be outdone by another Sith would be wrong.

 

More to that I don't get the obsession with people wanting a Sith being stronger then Sidious anyway...I mean eventually somewhere down the line, you are gonna reach the peak. Thats another thing I don't understand....if someone were to surpass him anyway, wouldn't said Sith be in the same boat as Sidious as being ripped on because he is powerful?

 

So....no logic sense this makes.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kaedusz]

If Sidious were knocked off his pedestal. It would feel wrong. This guy is the pinnacle of evil, the villain of all villains.

 

This right there,represents everything wrong with the SW franchise.I mean why? Why? Just because GL said so?Because he is in the original trilogy that started it all?

Anything Sidious did,even in the EU after episode 6 which is a joke,is nothing compared to the ambition to eat the whole galaxy.First of all,if you even think of something like that,you must have power beyond comprehension in the first place.As i said,while Sidious may be the strongest sith,he is just a sith.

 

More to that I don't get the obsession with people wanting a Sith being stronger then Sidious anyway

 

The exactly opposite phenomenon is much more stronger and noticable.

 

There is no obsession,Vitiate is just beyond the sith and beyond the jedi.Beyond Darth Nihilus even.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

This right there,represents everything wrong with the SW franchise.I mean why? Why? Just because GL said so?Because he is in the original trilogy that started it all?

Anything Sidious did,even in the EU after episode 6 which is a joke,is nothing compared to the ambition to eat the whole galaxy.First of all,if you even think of something like that,you must have power beyond comprehension in the first place.As i said,while Sidious may be the strongest sith,he is just a sith.

No, its because when I watched the movies, and experienced the lore. This is simply how it felt to me. Just like the Force feels mystical, Kenobi seems like a wizard, Vader an enforcer, Sidious feels like the ultimate evil.

[Beniboybling]

The exactly opposite phenomenon is much more stronger and noticable.

 

There is no obsession,Vitiate is just beyond the sith and beyond the jedi.Beyond Darth Nihilus even.

I wouldn't say so. He may have grand ideas but few have come into fruition.

[Hatefrenzy]

This right there,represents everything wrong with the SW franchise.I mean why? Why? Just because GL said so?Because he is in the original trilogy that started it all?

Anything Sidious did,even in the EU after episode 6 which is a joke,is nothing compared to the ambition to eat the whole galaxy.First of all,if you even think of something like that,you must have power beyond comprehension in the first place.As i said,while Sidious may be the strongest sith,he is just a sith..

 

What does "just a sith" mean, exactly? Say what you want, Vitiate is also "just a sith", despite how you're trying to paint him.

 

Also, having the ambition to consume the entire galaxy doesnt make him great, and doesnt mean he has "power beyond comprehension". It's an idea, and just cause he has that, doesnt mean he can do it. If anything, his grand plan just shows that he is insane, which would again, make him less than Palpatine, because Palpatine actually had a great idea, along with the intelligence and power to pull it off.

 

 

 

There is no obsession,Vitiate is just beyond the sith and beyond the jedi.Beyond Darth Nihilus even.

 

He may (though we don't know this for a fact) be above the Jedi and Sith of his era, but that doesnt mean he is beyond ALL Jedi and Sith, ever. What he has accomplished, is no doubt impressive, but he is still not as accomplished as Emporer Palpatine. If you do some research, you will see why

[Aurbere]

This right there,represents everything wrong with the SW franchise.I mean why? Why? Just because GL said so?Because he is in the original trilogy that started it all?

Anything Sidious did,even in the EU after episode 6 which is a joke,is nothing compared to the ambition to eat the whole galaxy.First of all,if you even think of something like that,you must have power beyond comprehension in the first place.As i said,while Sidious may be the strongest sith,he is just a sith.

 

Move past your biases and see the big picture. Everything established in Sith history has led to Darth Sidious. Several sourcebooks depict Sidious as such. He is the pinnacle of evil. Everything points to it, whether it is the Empire he formed, or what he does in the shadows.

 

The exactly opposite phenomenon is much more stronger and noticable.

 

There is no obsession,Vitiate is just beyond the sith and beyond the jedi.Beyond Darth Nihilus even.

 

Is this because he has galaxy-munching plans? I think we've all seen that before.

[Kaedusz]

No, its because when I watched the movies, and experienced the lore. This is simply how it felt to me. Just like the Force feels mystical, Kenobi seems like a wizard, Vader an enforcer, Sidious feels like the ultimate evil.

 

If you forget all you know about SW and the movies is not the first SW experience you have.And you start learning the SW lore from the beginning(before the creation of the Republic) ,which means the movies lore would be the last thing you read about,your opinion of Sidious and all movie characters,both jedi and sith,would not be as overinflated as it is now.

 

I think i am lucky not be introduced to the SW universe with the movies.Watching the movies must be a consequence of the fact that you are already a SW fan.This is the only way you can see how Sidious ,Anakin and all the terrible jedi in that era are not as awesome as most SW fans think they are.

 

Even with all that said Sidious is maybe the strongest sith,but as i said before Vitiate is beyond the sith.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

If you forget all you know about SW and the movies is not the first SW experience you have.And you start learning the SW lore from the beginning(before the creation of the Republic) ,which means the movies lore would be the last thing you read about,your opinion of Sidious and all movie characters,both jedi and sith,would not be as overinflated as it is now.

I think that's largely irrelevant.

 

I see the big picture, and the big picture to me is that Sidious is the pinnacle of the Sith. Everyone before him was a building block, heck, he may have even learned from the teachings Vitiate left behind. Everything that the Sith have achieved has culminated with him, everything. He is the only Sith to every succeed in their ultimate goal - to destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy. And everyone after him, is just struggling to keep up.

 

Feats aside, the overpowered EU aside, everything else aside. Such an individual, in any universe cannot help but be the most powerful of his kind. This is the only way it can make sense, and I'm happy to embrace it.

[Beniboybling]

I think i am lucky not be introduced to the SW universe with the movies.Watching the movies must be a consequence of the fact that you are already a SW fan.This is the only way you can see how Sidious ,Anakin and all the terrible jedi in that era are not as awesome as most SW fans think they are.

Does this not work both ways? If you were introduced to the Old Republic first and then the movies would you not have an over-inflated opinion of the Old Republic? Are you not equally biased?

 

If we really want to get technical, as the very first installment to the universe, the movies should be held in the highest regard. They are after all the source from which everything else followed. All Sith after Sidious and Vader are simply reflections of their many dimensions and possible dimensions.

[Kaedusz]

If we really want to get technical, as the very first installment to the universe, the movies should be held in the highest regard. They are after all the source from which everything else followed.

 

Then Warcaft 1 should be held in hightest regard,because it is the source from which everything else in the Warcraft universe follow?If you are familiar with this franchise you will know this is an absurd statement.The same can be said about many movie and gaming franchises.

 

The way i see it,the movies are just the basis upon which much greater and *better* lore and universe were created.And in that context Vitiate is not necessarily weaker than Sidious.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Aurbere]

If you forget all you know about SW and the movies is not the first SW experience you have.And you start learning the SW lore from the beginning(before the creation of the Republic) ,which means the movies lore would be the last thing you read about,your opinion of Sidious and all movie characters,both jedi and sith,would not be as overinflated as it is now.

 

I think i am lucky not be introduced to the SW universe with the movies.Watching the movies must be a consequence of the fact that you are already a SW fan.This is the only way you can see how Sidious ,Anakin and all the terrible jedi in that era are not as awesome as most SW fans think they are.

 

Even with all that said Sidious is maybe the strongest sith,but as i said before Vitiate is beyond the sith.

 

/facepalm

 

So this is what it's come down to? Beni, I think we should just move on. Pretty soon the words "Sidious fanboy" and "movie fanboy" are going to come out at this rate. Because apparently anyone who thinks Sidious is the strongest Sith or likes certain movie characters more than Old Republic characters is a "fanboy"

 

That word gets thrown around too much, and I know I'm the first one to say it, but I'm just making a prediction,

[Aurbere]

Then Warcaft 1 should be held in hightest regard,because it is the source from which everything else in the Warcraft universe follow?The same can be said about many movie and gaming franchises.

 

The way i see it,the movies are just the basis upon which much greater and *better* stories and universe were created.

 

Considering the canon system of Star Wars, the movies are suppose to be held in the highest regard.

[Beniboybling]

Then Warcaft 1 should be held in hightest regard,because it is the source from which everything else in the Warcraft universe follow?If you are familiar with this franchise you will know this is an absurd statement.The same can be said about many movie and gaming franchises.

 

The way i see it,the movies are just the basis upon which much greater and *better* lore and universe were created.And in that context Vitiate is not necessarily weaker than Sidious.

Every universe is different. Nonetheless I feel my arguments still stand.

[Wolfninjajedi]

/facepalm

 

So this is what it's come down to? Beni, I think we should just move on. Pretty soon the words "Sidious fanboy" and "movie fanboy" are going to come out at this rate. Because apparently anyone who thinks Sidious is the strongest Sith or likes certain movie characters more than Old Republic characters is a "fanboy"

 

That word gets thrown around too much, and I know I'm the first one to say it, but I'm just making a prediction,

 

Too many times, it has.

[Fyurii]

Then Warcaft 1 should be held in hightest regard,because it is the source from which everything else in the Warcraft universe follow?

 

You've taken that too literally.

The games (WC1-3 and expansions, and WoW) should be held to the highest regard, not one above all the others.

The games are the source , and books are an expansion of them that should work around the stories grown from the games.

[XantosCledwin]

Regardless, Vitiate hasn't really done anything that outdoes Sidious.

 

Except achieve actual immortality you mean? As far as anyone in our game world knows, Vitiate is effectively immortal. Despite claims to the contrary.

 

Vitiate has accomplished a fair bit. He has managed to keep an entire Empire consisting of hundreds (possibly thousands) of other Sith mostly in check. Palpatine on the other hand was one of two Sith in his Empire, any other force-sensitives were either slaughtered or prevented from learning the ways of the Force. A man who can keep hundreds to thousands of Sith in line, is a powerful man indeed. A man who can only handle keeping one other Sith in line and requires an army of Clones to kill all other force sensitives, is a weak man indeed.

Edited June 13, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Aurbere]

Except achieve actual immortality you mean? As far as anyone in our game world knows, Vitiate is effectively immortal. Despite claims to the contrary.

 

Vitiate has accomplished a fair bit. He has managed to keep an entire Empire consisting of hundreds (possibly thousands) of other Sith mostly in check. Palpatine on the other hand was one of two Sith in his Empire, any other force-sensitives were either slaughtered or prevented from learning the ways of the Force. A man who can keep hundreds to thousands of Sith in line, is a powerful man indeed. A man who can only handle keeping one other Sith in line and requires an army of Clones to kill all other force sensitives, is a weak man indeed.

 

Sidious was immortal too...

 

Vitiate kept most of his Sith in line because they thought he was a god. Also, Sidious had plenty of Force users in his Empire. The Inquisitorious, the Sovereign Protectors, the Prophets of the Dark Side, the Emperor's Hands.

 

Please tell me when Vitiate actually does something noteworthy such as massive Force Storms or mind-wiping Coruscant. Seeing as how this thread is about Sidious being the most powerful Sith, Vitiate's Empire doesn't really matter (not that it mattered in any discussion since his Empire is so much smaller).

[Euphrosyne]

Please tell me when Vitiate actually does something noteworthy such as massive Force Storms or mind-wiping Coruscant. Seeing as how this thread is about Sidious being the most powerful Sith, Vitiate's Empire doesn't really matter (not that it mattered in any discussion since his Empire is so much smaller).

I don't think a lot of people here realize how much smaller Vitiate's little tinpot dictatorship actually is, judging from all the whining about how the Empire hasn't conquered the Republic yet even though supposedly it'd be easy as all hell.

[XantosCledwin]

Sidious was immortal too...

 

Vitiate kept most of his Sith in line because they thought he was a god. Also, Sidious had plenty of Force users in his Empire. The Inquisitorious, the Sovereign Protectors, the Prophets of the Dark Side, the Emperor's Hands.

 

Please tell me when Vitiate actually does something noteworthy such as massive Force Storms or mind-wiping Coruscant. Seeing as how this thread is about Sidious being the most powerful Sith, Vitiate's Empire doesn't really matter (not that it mattered in any discussion since his Empire is so much smaller).

 

If by Immortal you mean that Sidious had a secret clone factory with strands of his DNA waiting to bring his genetic structure back into existence and a computer terminal were said clone could be taught everything that Emperor Palpatine knew. Then yes, I suppose he was immortal. But just because a Clone had all the knowledge of Palpatine, does not mean that said Clone is in fact Palpatine. I mean look how different the personalities between all the Clone Troopers were when compared to Jango Fett.

 

Most of those Force Users that Sidious had in his empire were either not trained in the ways of the Sith or Jedi, were from alternate schools of Force Use (such as the Night Sisters), or were not taught how to use the Force at all.

 

I will remind you that Vitiate is the sovereign leader of an entire nation of Dark Side Force Users. Sith are notoriously rebellious.

 

 

I mean look at Baras. He tried to name himself the Emperor's Voice. This would have if successful, placed Baras in a position of power second only to the Emperor. From which he would have potentially been able to overthrow the Emperor himself without the authorization of the Dark Council, or the Emperor's Hand. This would have allowed him to essentially become the only authority which decides Imperial Policy. The Emperor, via the Emperor's Wrath was able to stop this.

 

 

Just because Vitiate acts behind the scenes a great deal more than does Palpatine, does not mean that he is any weaker. In fact in alot of regards, the actions of Vitiate in the struggle of politics within the Empire actually mirror alot of the actions of Emperor Palpatine. They both work from behind the scenes for many years. Although Palpatine has been working to over throw the Republic from within, Vitiate is working to overthrow the republic from without. They work towards the same goals. But their efforts are united in common. The difference is that Vitiate basically starts with an entire army of Sith at his Disposal. Where as Palpatine basically has to grow his army of Sith, or Clones in his back yard so to speak.

Completely the opposite. If Sidious were knocked off his pedestal. It would feel wrong. This guy is the pinnacle of evil, the villain of all villains. Both in the movies and outside of it. He is the accumulation of countless study into the darkside, the apex of the Rule of Two. To think that he was only second best, would just not seem right. Especially seconded by another Emperor. I mean Sidious is the Emperor. Anyone not familiar with the EU would think such a thing laughable and like pass it off as 'fanfiction'.

 

Vitiate, to me, just comes across as insane.

 

Yoda's comment about the "Rule of Two" is completely nonsensical. It was based on an assumption that the Jedi Order of that time period had made, because they had long since stopped reading the Sith Holocrons, and thus all information regarding the Sith Culture was handed down from Master to Padawan via word of mouth. Even if you account for Yoda's knowledge of the Sith training methods by claiming that he is over 200 years old by the time he made that comment and could likely have heard of or seen Sith in his lifetime... that doesn't change the fact that Darth Tyranus, and Darth Maul were likely BOTH being trained in the ways of the Dark Side simultaneously by Darth Sidious, and that Darth Tyranus was very much likely to have already been training Asajj Ventress at the time of the Phantom Menace. So the entire concept that there were only TWO Sith at any given time was completely non-sensical even in the canon.

Edited June 13, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Beniboybling]

I'd just like to point out here people that canon dictates that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Not the smartest etc. So claims being made about Vitiate governing an Empire full of Sith for 1000 years is largely irrelevant.

 

Xanatos is making a huge leap in logic here by saying that because Vitiate successfully ruled over many powerful Force sensitives, and Sidious was smart enough not to, Sidious is therefore incapable of doing the former. We do not know that. If anything its merely an example of how Sidious was more intelligent than Vitiate for maintaining the Rule of Two and by doing so eliminating inefficiency.

 

Simply put, we can give no direct comparison. The Emperor was overthrown by Rebels, yes ultimately he was killed by his apprentice Darth Vader but the catalyst of such an action was caused by a third party - Luke Skywalker. We therefore cannot say for sure whether Sidious would be able to effectively govern the Sith Empire if no third parties were involved. Think I'm grasping at straws? Vitiate was almost killed when a third party - Revan and Meetra Surik - become involved in his Empire, simply by gaining the aid of a Sith Lord. Similarly, when Vitiate's Sith Empire finally revealed itself he was defeated by a Jedi Knight, a third party.

 

And finally, we should note that Vitiate did not keep control of his Empire through personal power. Created it perhaps but controlled it? No. The Emperor kept control over his Empire through paranoia. He put so many walls between himself and his subjects that it became impossible for them to touch him. Then effectively let his underlings run his Empire. Even more reason why a comparison cannot be made as Sidious ruled more openly.

[Beniboybling]

Yoda's comment about the "Rule of Two" is completely nonsensical. It was based on an assumption that the Jedi Order of that time period had made, because they had long since stopped reading the Sith Holocrons, and thus all information regarding the Sith Culture was handed down from Master to Padawan via word of mouth. Even if you account for Yoda's knowledge of the Sith training methods by claiming that he is over 200 years old by the time he made that comment and could likely have heard of or seen Sith in his lifetime... that doesn't change the fact that Darth Tyranus, and Darth Maul were likely BOTH being trained in the ways of the Dark Side simultaneously by Darth Sidious, and that Darth Tyranus was very much likely to have already been training Asajj Ventress at the time of the Phantom Menace. So the entire concept that there were only TWO Sith at any given time was completely non-sensical even in the canon.

Forgive me, but I fail to see what relevance this has to the debate.

 

Regardless, Yoda's brief statement about the Sith is hardly the most reliable source concerning the Rule of Two either way. We have far more reliable information by which we are aware of ,many members, and most of the important events in the lineage. It should be noted though that Yoda's source was not pure speculation, he gained the information from the dying words of a Jedi who had some kind of vision (don't quote me on that) but was presumed insane. Yoda obviously had some realisation that what he said may have been true, with the emergence of Sidious. That or it was a poor plot hole filler. Probably the latter.

 

Either way the Rule of Two does exist. For approximately 1000 years the Sith have been focused in two individuals, although at times this grew to three when a Master trained a possible replacement or an Apprentice his future pupil. Regardless the official 'Master' and 'Apprentice' barring 'infomal' apprentices remained apparent. So yes, technically, they're were ever only two Sith. But yeah, technically. Most of the time however there were literally only two.

 

And the notion that the knowledge of the master was passed down the the apprentice never changed, even when their were multiple apprentices, only one would ever inherit the title of 'Master' and so the Sith knowledge the former possessed. Although their was one point when much of the Sith knowledge that had been built up was lost when a certain Sith Lord turned back to the light. But I digress, this has no real relevance to the debate at hand. Sidious remains the pinnacle of the Rule of Two.

 

P.S. Darth Maul and Tyranus never existed at the same time... to my knowledge.

[Beniboybling]

I will give it to Vitiate that he achieved immortality. But does this point to much? Plagueis achieved immortality as well, yet we do not consider him as the most powerful Sith Lord in existence. (Though his is a close 4th at least.)

 

Knowledge = power, yes but not only metaphorically so to speak.

 

I mean, if Sidious discovered the ability but was unable to use it because he was not powerful enough. A point could be made here. But all this really points to is that Vitiate was very clever and read a lot of books. After-all his immortality was achieved through ritual, he didn't just become so powerful than he became immortal.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

I will give it to Vitiate that he achieved immortality. But does this point to much? Plagueis achieved immortality as well, yet we do not consider him as the most powerful Sith Lord in existence. (Though his is a close 4th at least.)

 

Knowledge = power, yes but not only metaphorically so to speak.

 

I mean, if Sidious discovered the ability but was unable to use it because he was not powerful enough. A point could be made here. But all this really points to is that Vitiate was very clever and read a lot of books. After-all his immortality was achieved through ritual, he didn't just become so powerful than he became immortal.

 

No matter what way its sliced, immortality is immortality. Essence Transfer is just another way.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[XantosCledwin]

I'd just like to point out here people that canon dictates that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Not the smartest etc. So claims being made about Vitiate governing an Empire full of Sith for 1000 years is largely irrelevant.

 

Xanatos is making a huge leap in logic here by saying that because Vitiate successfully ruled over many powerful Force sensitives, and Sidious was smart enough not to, Sidious is therefore incapable of doing the former. We do not know that. If anything its merely an example of how Sidious was more intelligent than Vitiate for maintaining the Rule of Two and by doing so eliminating inefficiency.

 

Simply put, we can give no direct comparison. The Emperor was overthrown by Rebels, yes ultimately he was killed by his apprentice Darth Vader but the catalyst of such an action was caused by a third party - Luke Skywalker. We therefore cannot say for sure whether Sidious would be able to effectively govern the Sith Empire if no third parties were involved. Think I'm grasping at straws? Vitiate was almost killed when a third party - Revan and Meetra Surik - become involved in his Empire, simply by gaining the aid of a Sith Lord. Similarly, when Vitiate's Sith Empire finally revealed itself he was defeated by a Jedi Knight, a third party.

 

And finally, we should note that Vitiate did not keep control of his Empire through personal power. Created it perhaps but controlled it? No. The Emperor kept control over his Empire through paranoia. He put so many walls between himself and his subjects that it became impossible for them to touch him. Then effectively let his underlings run his Empire. Even more reason why a comparison cannot be made as Sidious ruled more openly.

 

Actually, if anything Sidious practically invented this so called Rule of Two (though it had probably been around for 1 or 2 generations of Sith prior to him). Afterall, the word "SITH" refers to a SPECIES, not to a Religion. It would be quite stupid to claim that there were only two members of the Species of the Sith at any given time. You cannot maintain a species with only two members. Thus the Rule of Two was invented after the Sith became a Religion, not while it was a Race.

 

Additionally, the Sith only became a Religion after Humans exiled from the Republic first encountered the Sith species. These humans were actually former members of the Jedi Order. Bringing with them, the concept of "Master and Padawan" training methods. They incorporated these training methods into their religion that they named after the Sith Species, though they renamed the training method as "Master and Apprentice" instead. this is where the origin of the "Rule of Two" likely comes from... the Jedi use it too, it is not limited to the Sith. So unless we are to say that there can only be TWO JEDI at any given time, then there by proxy cannot only be two Sith at any given time. Unless the Dark Lord of the Sith (read: Emperor) decree's that no other Sith besides himself and his apprentice can exist.

 

Also, if we are going to say that Palpatine is the greatest Sith Lord EVER. Then we must consider ALL of the Dark Lords of the Sith, not just Palpatine.

 

Jen'ari Xendor (died circa 24,500 BBY)

Jen'ari Tulak Hord (Born before 5,500 BBY)

Jen'ari Marka Ragnos (Died 5,000 BBY)

Jen'ari Naga Sadow (died circa 4,400 BBY)

Jen'ari Exar Kun (died 3,996 BBY, Spirit died 11 ABY)

Jen'ari Ajunta Pall (Died 3,956 BBY after his spirit was released)

Jen'ari Vitiate (born 5,113 BBY, assumed dead circa 3,641 BBY)

(Between Vitiate and Palpatine there is a huge gap of time which is not accounted for, we do not know when Vitiate's rule ended exactly, but we know that there were Sith Lords between Vitiate and Palpatine, whether those Sith Lords ever claimed the title of "Jen'ari" or "Dark Lord of the Sith" which is not synonymous with the lesser title of "Darth" is unknown).

Jen'ari Sidious (Born 82 BBY, died (first time) 4 ABY)

 

Ignroing all these other Dark Lords of the Sith when discussing whether Sidious is in fact the strongest Dark Lord of the Sith, is doing the Sith throughout history a great injustice. Additionally the Rule of Two as it was understood by Yoda was not invented until the time of Darth Bane in 1,026 BBY which is centuries after Star Wars the Old Republic takes place. And yet at the same time it is Centuries before Sidious' time. So basically, because no Sith for basically 1,000 years has had the experience of ruling over hundreds of other Sith at the same time, Palpatine would have had a very hard time controlling an army of actual fully trained Sith Warriors.

 

EDIT: Dooku was born in 102 BBY. He was freaking older than Palpatine himself. Darth Maul was born in 54 BBY. So yes, they did exist simultaneously. The question is whether Dooku was being groomed as a Dark Side Adept during the events of the Phantom Menace or not. And given how powerful Dooku was in the Dark Side, I find it wholly illogical to assume that he wasn't.

Edited June 13, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Beniboybling]

No matter what way its sliced, immortality is immortality. So ya, Vitiate, Plagueis and Sidious achieved it...I guess Exar Kun achieved it aswell given he could remove his spirit and put it into the temple.

Yes, but it is a thing of knowledge, not of power. This is evident from the different ways it has been achieved:

 

Vitiate achieved it from performing large and complex rituals.

 

Plagueis achieved it my manipulating midichlorians.

 

Sidious achieved it by creating clones and transferring his essence.

 

But what feats are really being displayed here? An aptitude with Sith Magic? A knowledge of midichlorians? A clever application of the Force? Achieving immortality itself is not a testament to someones power but there intelligence, how they went about achieving it? Perhaps some feats can be garnered here. But not in the achievement itself.

 

And I wouldn't say Kun achieved immortality, he just became a Force ghost and well ya... that's kinda been done before, like a lot. He just happened to come across some putty to play with.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Beniboybling