/facepalms & Community Development

[DarthBror]

As you may know there has been a push for competitive PVP on this server. I have taken some personal responsibility for this, and have had mixed results. About 1/3 of the people I contacted were excited about the proposition. Another 1/3 didn't bother responding, which doesn't really say much other than not everyone checks their PMs. The last 1/3 however responded a bit more hostile than I would have guessed.

 

(proceed to the TLDR)

 

The next few sentences are going to make somebody go bananas,, but **** it.. Ive never been one to keep my thoughts to myself..

 

You wanna know why the have'nots in the in world always have nothing.. Its NOT because of lack of opportunity. Its because every time they are presented with a chance to improve their condition,

..They choose to pick apart every flaw in the offer. Presenting "what ifs" and "if only". Passing at everything waiting for the Perfect offer.

..They choose to bring up past indiscretions and wallow in misery of the memory. After all Its much easier to point fingers and place blame than it is to organize and push for real results.

..OR they simply choose the path of least resistance and continue the status quo.

 

I bring this up because it applies to RL and In Game dynamics. If you wanna go through life as a casual player then please don't complain you don't drive a brand new SUV and live in a big house on a hill. Please don't complain that you have 1st tier gear and get ROFL stomped by organization and combined skill.

THEN turn around and spray hatorade on those who do because it makes you feel better.

 

I can hear it now.. The "This is an RP server",, "It just a game".. etc etc.. ok.. well go back and read some of the BS on these forums,, or god forbid I post some quotes received in PM over the last few days. It will quickly become evident that the aforementioned statements are simply a way for individuals on the fringe to justify and feel comfortable with themselves. Much the same as the poor say money cant buy happiness.

 

Ive had my fill of trying to make things better. Ive improved my personal enjoyment by x100 fold. Although at this time taking my experience to the next level relies heavily upon the community and their participation in Ranked PVP. Unfortunately due to multiple factors that looks to be an impossibility. I see no choice but to move on to greener pastures, and if I spend 40 nights wandering in the desert starving to death then so be it.

 

Ive met metric **** ton of people in this game. Each, in their own way, have helped to shape my gaming experience . I want to thank all of you for being a part of that, and Sincerely wish all your hopes and dreams for this game come.

 

Well.. I could continue but its time to drop the TLDR:

 

I will be transferring off this mess as soon as it becomes available. I wish you all the best of luck and don't hesitate to whisper me or /wave should we meet again on a PVP server.

[Satedbuffalo]

Although at this time taking my experience to the next level relies heavily upon the community and their participation in Ranked PVP. Unfortunately due to multiple factors that looks to be an impossibility.

 

I thought things were looking pretty hopeful, with many games played over the last several days, a new (and relatively well-organized) spurt of interest, Luddott's TS, an enjin site, a new and experienced guild (Watchmen) looking to get in on ranked, as well as several top-end PvE guilds looking into putting semi-competitive ranked teams together.

 

I absolutely support people moving off the server if it's not a good fit. However, I do think it's unhelpful -- even if you've given up on TEH ranked -- to poopoo the efforts of others. Ranked on TEH is always going to need an abundance of enthusiasm, and especially at this critical juncture. I absolutely, 100% understand the frustration with attitudes or the quality of players or the lack of respect the server holds for your guild. I would just ask that you not bring demoralizing sentiments into a public forum like this. We need people to step up and get things off the ground.

 

Just like in an operation or a warzone, when someone decides we're going to lose/die before we even start, very often we will. Attitudes are contagious and negative ones especially so.

 

Announcing your departure from the server: I am sad to see you go and you will be missed. Seriously, I have always appreciated your efforts at organizing, perhaps most especially prior to your joining Guerrilla.

Telling everyone still on TEH that ranked here is an impossibility: Not appreciated. I imagine this post coming from a place of frustration and strong emotion and I understand it. But please think about the message you want to send.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Satedbuffalo

[ML_DoubleTap]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I can also see both sides. Maybe its because I grew up watching Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah...all those guys that wanted to compete like crazy against one another to show who was best. They didn't want to join together to make a 'big 3' or whatever...they wanted to be the beat the other 2, not join them. I think it's just a change in competitive philosophy with the younger generation...jeez and I'm not even that old Instead of trying to beat the best, the best are starting to choose to band together. The LeBron's and DWade's of our server merged together instead of trying to beat one another. You mentioned the path of least resistance in your post in reference to those that don't try to become a "have"...but you can just as easily argue that these folks have taken that path to success. There's nothing wrong with it, but you can't blame the community for being frustrated in becoming the Magic and Hornets of the server losing their talent to the bigger programs.

 

It will be a shame to see you go, I always enjoyed you in the forums! I appreciated your attempts at fostering a better community and don't blame your for your own frustrations. I'd really like to find a ranked team and help create more competition, but I've just not had much luck on that front.

[DarthBror]

 

1. -- to poopoo the efforts of others.

 

.....

 

2. I would just ask that you not bring demoralizing sentiments into a public forum like this. We need people to step up and get things off the ground.

 

......

 

 

3. Announcing your departure from the server: I am sad to see you go and you will be missed. Seriously, I have always appreciated your efforts at organizing, perhaps most especially prior to your joining Guerrilla.

Telling everyone still on TEH that ranked here is an impossibility: Not appreciated. I imagine this post coming from a place of frustration and strong emotion and I understand it. But please think about the message you want to send.

 

1. I mentioned only my own efforts... PLEASE PLEASE someone metion other efforts besided QQ.. please.

 

2. Fair enough.. But Ive had more than one person tell me that this server will be much better off once we are gone.. So excuse me if "go **** yourself" comes to mind.. lol.. but Im just pissed too. How far does a person need to step before its considered "UP".. For god sake man..

 

3. My joining Guerrilla changed nothing!. I Still attempted to be the same person and make the same efforts. But there is so much anger and ******** that everything I say lands on deaf ears..

Impossibility:

Perhaps not.. but so long as the animosity exists, that's the truth.

 

PS.. I did think about this message. All weekend in fact.. Rest assured I had a much longer *******r message that's been cut down to fit. lol

[DarthBror]

Honestly I appreciate both of your comments.. I too have enjoyed in game and forum interactions with you..

 

Its just super frustrating trying to build something when the people you need to help you are stuck on the hateroade, refusing to change their mindset.

 

The truth is this is an RP server.. And while Ranked may be inevitable here. It will only come to fruition after server transfers.

 

Until then.. even a handful of ROFL stomps will open old wounds and destroy the foundation before the building construction starts.

[DarthBror]

In the end... the phrase..

 

"no one wants to be farmed"

 

comes up over and over..

 

If that's your mindset.. then well.. I have nothing for you.. to all those who responded to my PMs in that fashion..

 

you know who you are..

 

Pull you big boy panties up or uninstall.. Or go raid and sing kumbye yah..

 

I got "farmed".. but I saw it as learning experiences. Now I guess im Farmer *********** John.. Go figure. lol

[ML_DoubleTap]

I think you need to be fair and not place all the blame on those drinking the 'hatorade'. First, don't forget, you were fairly outspoken at one point as well on the other side. And, second, don't imply that your own guild doesn't bring much of it on themselves.

 

I think you overvalue the significance and worth of yourself and other baddies. To the likes of GG, you are nothing but flies on a wall, spittle in a can, worm slime, ...

 

In jest or not, it certainly wasn't the best choice to post something like that when working to rebuild the competitive community. Similarly one of the last bouts at building the community the big 3 decided to create the 'Gamepirella' guild and post a troll recruitment post displaying their supiority.

 

So, while I appreciate your efforts and will miss you if/when you move on, I would ask that you not imply your guild doesn't have a little to do with the issues.

[DarthBror]

I think you need to be fair and not place all the blame on those drinking the 'hatorade'. First, don't forget, you were fairly outspoken at one point as well on the other side. And, second, don't imply that your own guild doesn't bring much of it on themselves.

 

 

 

In jest or not, it certainly wasn't the best choice to post something like that when working to rebuild the competitive community. Similarly one of the last bouts at building the community the big 3 decided to create the 'Gamepirella' guild and post a troll recruitment post displaying their supiority.

 

So, while I appreciate your efforts and will miss you if/when you move on, I would ask that you not imply your guild doesn't have a little to do with the issues.

 

Dude put the guild aside... This is the **** im talking about.. You think for 1 minute that anyone came to me and said...

"Hey Mort, On behalf of the guild I would like you to attempt reconciliation and a rebuild of competitive PVP"..

 

Give me a freaking break.. Truth is most of the people in my "guild" hardly read these forums.. They play the game with the time they have and call it. I don't think they give a **** what I say here, and its certainly not by proxy.

 

I do this stuff because I enjoy it. But now that that haterode is getting splashed on me too.. Im not a fan..

 

You might say I brought it on my self by joining them, but that's my point. Until people stop QQing, people wont stop Trolling.. And vice versa... Its a vicious cycle that prob wont stop till one party leaves.

 

All Im saying is that Im done being a part of it.. I don't see any more ways to attempt improvement without running into the same barriers that have plagued my previous efforts.

[Satedbuffalo]

1. I mentioned only my own efforts... PLEASE PLEASE someone metion other efforts besided QQ.. please.

 

I did. :/ 1) Not only are ranked matches happening, with new teams, the games played over the last several days have reportedly been fun for all involved. I haven't heard any QQ from those actually involved. 2) In my opinion, there's a groundswell of interest in ranked on the server (the number of PUGs who've signed up on the ranked forum is already pretty impressive). 3) Luddott's TS has been offered and has been actually used. This is a huge step. 4) Averth is moderating an enjin site, fishing for help administrating, etc. So far we've already seen groups of PUGs getting together for ranked. 5) A new and experienced guild (Watchmen) looking to get in on ranked. That is awesome. 6) Several top-end PvE guilds looking into putting semi-competitive ranked teams together. including ones rep sides. That is also awesome.

 

2. Fair enough.. But Ive had more than one person tell me that this server will be much better off once we are gone.. So excuse me if "go **** yourself" comes to mind.. lol.. but Im just pissed too. How far does a person need to step before its considered "UP".. For god sake man..

 

I can definitely understand the sentiment. I don't understand why this feeling pisses you off, though. I was under the impression that many Guerrilla members felt that they'd be better served on a PvP server, given the more vibrant ranked scene. On TEH there are no teams that are seriously competitive with Guerrilla: I can absolutely understand wanting to find a more interesting PvP scene.

 

I definitely also see the point made by some of the old hands on the server that the 'meta-guild' phenomenon, whether or not it has a practical impact on the server, clearly has a psychological one. Dislodging that impediment might be really good. Buuut, I think there's definitely room for Game Genie/Guerrila/Empire/Gampirella on TEH and in TEH ranked. Many of their best players have left he game, and I think the newer teams are growing more competitive: it may simply be a matter of overcoming a lack of self-confidence.

 

3. My joining Guerrilla changed nothing!. I Still attempted to be the same person and make the same efforts. But there is so much anger and ******** that everything I say lands on deaf ears..

Impossibility:

Perhaps not.. but so long as the animosity exists, that's the truth.

I didn't mean that as an insult. I just meant that since joining, I've read your posts as more frustrated with the server than I remember. Probably this is just that your enthusiasm has generally dwindled over time and has no relation to your position in Guerrilla. From my perspective there was a sharp change in your tone pre- and post-Guerrilla, but I'm just an outside observer.

 

 

PS.. I did think about this message. All weekend in fact.. Rest assured I had a much longer *******r message that's been cut down to fit. lol

Understood. As I said, I still consider you an important part of the server and the PvP community and I have a great deal of respect for your opinions and the work you've done in the past. You'll be sorely missed. I wish you the best of luck leveling.

 

P.S. - whoever the **** is giving you such a hard time is an absolute tool.

[ML_DoubleTap]

P.S. - whoever the **** is giving you such a hard time is an absolute tool.

 

I agree, I was vey positive in my post and Mort even mentioned in reply that I should contact Pax(Infidel) about potentially joining them for a ranked team...unfortunately he never replied

[VarekRayth]

As a heads up, the last two nights have had ranked games rolling if only for a few games. Imp side me and a few others have been throwing together a PUG squad to play against Republic and AB, but really against anyone that'll queue against us. It's been fun, even with DC's and the pubbies leaving after two games.

 

So it's not nearly as dead as it was, and I know for damn sure on Imp side there are some people trying to make it happen.

[AsiriusNazriel]

In the end... the phrase..

 

"no one wants to be farmed"

 

comes up over and over..

 

If that's your mindset.. then well.. I have nothing for you.. to all those who responded to my PMs in that fashion..

 

you know who you are..

 

Pull you big boy panties up or uninstall.. Or go raid and sing kumbye yah..

 

I got "farmed".. but I saw it as learning experiences. Now I guess im Farmer *********** John.. Go figure. lol

 

Mort, stop being a drama llama, it's embarrassing.

 

Obviously there are people who have reservations, who have limited game time, who don't care as much about ranked as you would think even if they are hardcore PVP only players.

 

If you think it'll take you 40 days, it took Moses 40 years, and even then he never saw the promised land... (and even then the land of Milk & Honey was all kinds of dangerous, a center for struggle of control for thousands of years).

 

Your efforts are appreciated, but just cause you want it to happen doesn't mean that it will happen in your exact image (get the reference).

 

If Ranked becomes a farmfest, if it is uncompetitive, if teams field only their A-teams, if the cluster-FQ that is multi-guilding continues, then Ranked may not work out.

 

Unless players have split personalities, they will always have a hierarchy of allegiance. That's just the way it is in RL. So if someone is multi-guilding, they'll have some guild priority, and if **** hits the fan they'll revert to the guild that they are most connected to. So anyone who says that well on Republic side I'm here and Imperial side I'm here, unless it is the exact same guild (without multi-guilding), then there are loyalties.

 

Personally, I don't understand how you can have toons in 3-4 different guilds and NOT call it a league. If you want to do 3-4 guilds for your toons, organize a league, otherwise Ranked is a cluster-FQ.

[DarthBror]

I suppose the tone of my posts have changed a bit.. Mainly its due to the nature of my relationship with the Gameparilla people.

 

The more I interact with them the more I see they are people just like the rest of you. I see that they react to the negativity the same way I do.. The same way everyone does. Which is.... Time to double down.

 

This only perpetuates more negativity.

 

For a person like me,, its MADDENING!! I try to reach across the isle only to get an earful about how my guild this.. and my guild that.. It makes me negative and want to bask in the QQ of some random person.. Their misery is an extremely effective emotional band aid. Once it gets to that point,, its time to make a change. Sometimes that means turning and walking out.

 

You say that the Ranked thing is happening.. That's GREAT!.. I wouldn't know as I took most of the weekend AFK to breath a little and collect my thoughts. so BEST OF LUCK really. Im not tryin to be an ******e..

[AsiriusNazriel]

I agree, I was vey positive in my post and Mort even mentioned in reply that I should contact Pax(Infidel) about potentially joining them for a ranked team...unfortunately he never replied

 

Infidel was gone for about a week. He took one of them Jamaican 5 minutes.

[DarthBror]

Mort, stop being a drama llama, it's embarrassing.

 

Obviously there are people who have reservations, who have limited game time, who don't care as much about ranked as you would think even if they are hardcore PVP only players.

 

If you think it'll take you 40 days, it took Moses 40 years, and even then he never saw the promised land... (and even then the land of Milk & Honey was all kinds of dangerous, a center for struggle of control for thousands of years).

 

Your efforts are appreciated, but just cause you want it to happen doesn't mean that it will happen in your exact image (get the reference).

 

If Ranked becomes a farmfest, if it is uncompetitive, if teams field only their A-teams, if the cluster-FQ that is multi-guilding continues, then Ranked may not work out.

 

Unless players have split personalities, they will always have a hierarchy of allegiance. That's just the way it is in RL. So if someone is multi-guilding, they'll have some guild priority, and if **** hits the fan they'll revert to the guild that they are most connected to. So anyone who says that well on Republic side I'm here and Imperial side I'm here, unless it is the exact same guild (without multi-guilding), then there are loyalties.

 

Personally, I don't understand how you can have toons in 3-4 different guilds and NOT call it a league. If you want to do 3-4 guilds for your toons, organize a league, otherwise Ranked is a cluster-FQ.

 

/embarrassed.. yea slightly.. but only due to the fact that I have invested so much of myself. And should have uninstalled long ago. The fact that Im even writing all this is more so I can get this **** off my chest than it is for anyone else's benefit.

 

I don't have 40 years.. so nights will have to do.. As for your reference. When referring to me, feel free to capitalize the H in He and Him if you choose..

 

There's no such thing as being farmed. There's people who should be trying to improve.. Analyze outcomes.. etc.. Farming ONLY occurs when the Devs put PVE content in symbiosis with PVP. Such as making Relics BIS or Armor plates being REable for BIS crafting mats. Then its a mutual Farm.. The PVP people get to ROFL stomp, while the CareBears get their Easy items.

 

but so long as 2 teams go in... Both should come out with some sort of learned experience. If you get KTFO'd in RL it you double up on your stand up at the gym, not go back to rolling because its what your comfortable with.

[DarthBror]

As a heads up, the last two nights have had ranked games rolling if only for a few games. Imp side me and a few others have been throwing together a PUG squad to play against Republic and AB, but really against anyone that'll queue against us. It's been fun, even with DC's and the pubbies leaving after two games.

 

So it's not nearly as dead as it was, and I know for damn sure on Imp side there are some people trying to make it happen.

 

Im glad to hear that.. +1 ... +1 indeed

[Hellhorn]

Mort, sorry to see you so frustrated you're a solid dude. Hope you are happy on your new server and it's what you're looking for. If it doesn't work out you always have a place back here. Thanks for the effort bud.

[AsiriusNazriel]

/embarrassed.. yea slightly.. but only due to the fact that I have invested so much of myself. And should have uninstalled long ago. The fact that Im even writing all this is more so I can get this **** off my chest than it is for anyone else's benefit.

 

I don't have 40 years.. so nights will have to do.. As for your reference. When referring to me, feel free to capitalize the H in He and Him if you choose..

 

There's no such thing as being farmed. There's people who should be trying to improve.. Analyze outcomes.. etc.. Farming ONLY occurs when the Devs put PVE content in symbiosis with PVP. Such as making Relics BIS or Armor plates being REable for BIS crafting mats. Then its a mutual Farm.. The PVP people get to ROFL stomp, while the CareBears get their Easy items.

 

but so long as 2 teams go in... Both should come out with some sort of learned experience. If you get KTFO'd in RL it you double up on your stand up at the gym, not go back to rolling because its what your comfortable with.

 

You're probably right, maybe farmed isn't the right word. Spending $15 to get ROFL stomped doesn't sound like an enticing way to spend time.

[DarthBror]

You're probably right, maybe farmed isn't the right word. Spending $15 to get ROFL stomped doesn't sound like an enticing way to spend time.

 

I was going to leave this alone.. but.. to hell with it.

 

This statement sounds more like a Carebear who got his cheerios pissed in.. Not very Norris of you there Chuck.

 

I do find it funny how among the "this isn't going to work cuz Im eating sour grapes" responses I got to my Development PMs YOUR's Ranked Right up there.. Yet here you are chastising me for being a Drama Llama and STILL citing ROFL stomps as the primary barrier.

 

I just don't get it man.. Your the person who should be doing this.. YOUR supposed to be the Chuck *********** Norris of TEH for gods sake.. people look up to you and would gladly jump on your Ranked team..

 

Yet ,,

 

You just roll with the QQ and point fingers at Gameperilla.. Even if the ENTIRE guild was full of Dbags, and there wasn't a decent person among them, WHY on earth havnt you done something to combat them.

 

Maybe you should put your own team together. If that's seems too much, maybe you could take some of the effort you used to say im embarrassing myself to write a post offering realistic alternatives.

Edited June 4, 2013 by DarthBror

[Satedbuffalo]

You just roll with the QQ and point fingers at Gameperilla.. Even if the ENTIRE guild was full of Dbags, and there wasn't a decent person among them, WHY on earth havnt you done something to combat them.

 

This thread was your announcement that you're leaving. It sucks that we've gone down the same old 'blame Gamepirella' rabbit hole the server enjoys so much. The forums have been over and over what Guerrilla et al could do to improve PvP on the server. Those discussions (when they don't descend into meme-worthy recriminations) can be profitable, but they've already been had. I propose we just let this one lie.

 

Things on the server are good. Last I checked, Pax had tentatively offered 4 strong and 4 up-and-coming PvPers to maybe round out a ranked team in the near future. Arash has posted his availability as a solo PUG in the meantime. These are awesome steps forward.

 

While PvP is clearly about combat, I think it's exactly the wrong tact to take in organizing ranked on the server. Guerrilla is not anyone's enemy (except for us worms or whatever...>_>) and it's really important that they're involved as partners in the endeavor. We all have the same stated goal: vibrant, fun, inclusive ranked PvP on TEH.

 

The resentment some feel for what is now ancient history gets inflamed when that history gets denied. Fine. But let's be forward looking. Those who've noted historical impediments to ranked also want ranked. Those who feel that there's no support for novice teams to put a toe in the door also want ranked. Every person who feels some kind of frustration over this issue ultimately wants widespread, healthy ranked on the server. Acknowledge that those frustrations stem from real things that happened and move on.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Satedbuffalo

[silvershadows]

I wish you wouldn't give up, Mort.

 

Your efforts have spawned a whole host of people who are interested in ranked, who are interested in improving themselves and their gameplay, and whodo want to be competitive.

 

So what if there's some haters. Dude, let me tell you about haters.

 

About 6 years ago, my RL phone number, address, pictures, you name it, were made public on the Dark Age of Camelot forums by a group of individuals dead set on driving me (and by proxy, my guild since I was GM) off the server, out of the game, out of my life. My phone rang at all sorts of odd hours, I had weird messages left, my MySpace was vandalized as well as my YouTube channel. Photoshopped pictures of me cropped up all over the place.

 

Why? Because I was only one of two successful female GM's of a hardcore pvp guild, and the little babies couldn't stand being curbstomped by a girl.

 

Sounds stupid and petty doesn't it? Just like people getting all down on you for being part of Guerrilla is stupid and petty. You should do what I did back then... you know what I did? I ignored it and did what I was doing anyway. I worked for the Camelot Vault on IGN and wrote a bi-weekly column reflecting the state of "elite" pvp in the game, I kept my guild running and running over every other guild out there. I did my thing, because that's what I was good at. I encouraged other players to learn to challenge themselves, I helped spawn several other elite pvp guilds even while I had all this hate piled on my head and piled on my guildies, who didn't deserve any of the crap they got just because they were good at the game.

 

My point is this -

 

You are a great guy. You have a real desire to help and a real desire to see things improve. Don't let the vocal minority (and trust me, they're a minority - like you said most of your guild doesnt read the forums, that holds true for almost all guilds) get you down and knock you off track.

 

Don't let them discourage you. They're pissy, they're whiny, and they aren't worth your time, but everyone else is.

[NadirPalo]

The resentment some feel for what is now ancient history gets inflamed when that history gets denied. Fine. But let's be forward looking. Those who've noted historical impediments to ranked also want ranked. Those who feel that there's no support for novice teams to put a toe in the door also want ranked. Every person who feels some kind of frustration over this issue ultimately wants widespread, healthy ranked on the server. Acknowledge that those frustrations stem from real things that happened and move on.

 

Well said. Exactly what I've been thinking and trying to communicate for the past month.

[Satedbuffalo]

Well said. Exactly what I've been thinking and trying to communicate for the past month.

 

I'm just super eloquent, is 'kay.

 

[TheronFett]

Mort, I could at least applaud your efforts in the past. You've been somewhat of an ambassador and have helped bring players together for events, which is no small task. Kudos for that much. However...you're now part of the biggest multi-guild/cross faction conglomerate, and they're not very well liked. You knew that going in, so you should've expected people to respond the way they did. And frankly, this entire rant thread and ripping on Arash, who IS well liked, just adds fuel to an already burning fire.

 

Honestly, I don't know why this is so hard to understand: ranked isn't going to happen on TEH under the current circumstances. It just isn't. The reasons why have been explained by numerous people in several different threads, and no PR push by you (or anyone in your megaguild) is going to change anyone's mind.

 

If you REALLY want ranked to happen, if you REALLY want to save PvP on this server, then you're preaching to the wrong crowd. Disband the megaguild. Problem solved.

[DarthBror]

 

So what if there's some haters. Dude, let me tell you about haters.

 

 

Wow.. that sux.. That really is some Bull **** right there.

Edited June 4, 2013 by DarthBror