[Guide/Video] Min-Maxing DPS, Stat / Gear Check

[thejollygreenone]

once u have your crit and surge rating to where it read crit rating 30% and surge rating of 70% and force accuaracy to 110% then you go with power not before

 

im sorry but the bit about crit is quite incorrect. the 285 crit rating has been shown to give the max possible dps. these are the stats for a shadow in best in slot gear of whatever tier. point is to get to 30% crit even with the smuggler buff would be at least 500 crit rating, probably more. this is a huge waste, and you will lack a lot of power. optimal crit% while fully buffed will end up around 24% if you have enough willpower.

[enabe]

im sorry but the bit about crit is quite incorrect. the 285 crit rating has been shown to give the max possible dps. these are the stats for a shadow in best in slot gear of whatever tier. point is to get to 30% crit even with the smuggler buff would be at least 500 crit rating, probably more. this is a huge waste, and you will lack a lot of power. optimal crit% while fully buffed will end up around 24% if you have enough willpower.

 

i am sorry to say i am running at 30% crit right now and when it hits with my surge as high as it is my crit hits are around 10k each time it is goes of with discharge and my stats are

str 148

pre 810

aim 94

cun 94

end 2944

will 2314

exp 109

 

there is no problem getting to a crit rating of 30%

[thejollygreenone]

i am sorry to say i am running at 30% crit right now and when it hits with my surge as high as it is my crit hits are around 10k each time it is goes of with discharge and my stats are

str 148

pre 810

aim 94

cun 94

end 2944

will 2314

exp 109

 

there is no problem getting to a crit rating of 30%

 

how high you hit doesnt matter. show me that you can do 2500 dps over 5 minutes and i'll tell you that you can use that much crit rating.

EDIT: this is strictly for pve. if you're talking about pvp then this argument is invalid.

Edited July 30, 2013 by thejollygreenone

[enabe]

how high you hit doesnt matter. show me that you can do 2500 dps over 5 minutes and i'll tell you that you can use that much crit rating.

EDIT: this is strictly for pve. if you're talking about pvp then this argument is invalid.

 

i am talking just pve what are you following noxxic's lay out and not learn the class yourself if you spend some time working on it you will figure out that the soft cap for crit is 30% unbuffed

Edited July 30, 2013 by enabe

[thejollygreenone]

i am talking just pve

 

then i'll restate. go to the operations training dummy, use a parser and find your dps over 5 minutes. i guarantee you it will be lacking. you can't base how well you do in pve off of just the damage you see yourself do, you need to look at the actual damage per second thats recorded.

by the way 70% surge is fine. i never said anything about that. 30% crit percent is way too much.

Edited July 30, 2013 by thejollygreenone

[enabe]

then i'll restate. go to the operations training dummy, use a parser and find your dps over 5 minutes. i guarantee you it will be lacking. you can't base how well you do in pve off of just the damage you see yourself do, you need to look at the actual damage per second thats recorded.

by the way 70% surge is fine. i never said anything about that. 30% crit percent is way too much.

 

show me you number on a real op boss my number on titan 6 are around 2k dps so what are your real numbers not just on a dummy that is just sitting there and your highest attack never goes off because you cant get it to 30% health

Edited July 30, 2013 by enabe

[thejollygreenone]

show me you number on a real op boss my number on titan 6 are around 2k dps so what are your real numbers not just on a dummy that is just sitting there and your highest attack never goes off because you cant get it to 30% health

 

your ability to keep up dps on a dummy will directly help you in any boss fight, but as you wish ill link you a boss fight of mine.

http://www.torparse.com/a/354970/32/0/Overview

i dont want this to turn into a pissing contest, but i'm telling you with the utmost certainty that having 30% crit chance is a huge detriment to your dps.

by the way titan 6 has many gaps in between dps when launch happens, its not a very good test of dps. thrasher tends to be the go to for shadows since they are allowed to sit on the boss the whole time.

[enabe]

your ability to keep up dps on a dummy will directly help you in any boss fight, but as you wish ill link you a boss fight of mine.

http://www.torparse.com/a/354970/32/0/Overview

i dont want this to turn into a pissing contest, but i'm telling you with the utmost certainty that having 30% crit chance is a huge detriment to your dps.

by the way titan 6 has many gaps in between dps when launch happens, its not a very good test of dps. thrasher tends to be the go to for shadows since they are allowed to sit on the boss the whole time.

 

that is my point on thrasher you are standing in one spot and dont have to move at all unless u get targeted by the fire bug so that is not a true boss fight. what matters is keeping your dps up durning a whole fight even if you have to move so titan 6 is a perfect fight to go with and not tharsher

[thejollygreenone]

that is my point on thrasher you are standing in one spot and dont have to move at all unless u get targeted by the fire bug so that is not a true boss fight. what matters is keeping your dps up durning a whole fight even if you have to move so titan 6 is a perfect fight to go with and not tharsher

 

lol you dont quite seem to understand the concept of static testing. you look at the encounters that you can do the best at for exactly that reason, to show your maximum potential. at this point you seem to be arguing for arguing sake? this point doesnt even matter because i showed you a parse of dread master styrak which should more than fit your expectations of moving around the whole fight. please get back to the discussion, with 30% crit you lack way too much power, diminishing returns does this. look at the math, look at the dps i just showed you. it's mathematically and practically better to have 285 crit rating.

[enabe]

lol you dont quite seem to understand the concept of static testing. you look at the encounters that you can do the best at for exactly that reason, to show your maximum potential. at this point you seem to be arguing for arguing sake? this point doesnt even matter because i showed you a parse of dread master styrak which should more than fit your expectations of moving around the whole fight. please get back to the discussion, with 30% crit you lack way too much power, diminishing returns does this. look at the math, look at the dps i just showed you. it's mathematically and practically better to have 285 crit rating.

 

can you post your log on http://www.fryingtime.com this site. never did like torparse i have noticed that it inflats the numbers

[thejollygreenone]

can you post your log on http://www.fryingtime.com this site. never did like torparse i have noticed that it inflats the numbers

 

that parse is from awhile ago, i couldnt find it in my logs if i wanted to, i only showed you the link off the leaderboards on torparse. idk why you're not just accepting what quite a few people have proven.

[enabe]

that parse is from awhile ago, i couldnt find it in my logs if i wanted to, i only showed you the link off the leaderboards on torparse. idk why you're not just accepting what quite a few people have proven.

 

because like i said i have notice torparse inflates the numbers

[thejollygreenone]

because like i said i have notice torparse inflates the numbers

 

that's what you think. if it does or does not, it matters not. the point remains. people have proven through solid math that having anywhere over 300 crit rating is a loss of dps. how about you start uploading to torparse if you want to be making comparisons? i promise you, you'll have a larger player base to compare with. all the points that you have been making are irrelevant to what i'm telling you. if you want to have a pissing contest lets do it somewhere besides a public forum where people are trying to be productive.

EDIT: the website you linked hasnt been updated in over a year, do you have ANY proof that it is more accurate than torparse or vise versa? no i dont think anyone has that proof because it probably doesnt exist.

EDIT:EDIT: i just uploaded a 5 minute dummy parse to this website of yours. it came out saying it was 2 minutes. this website of yours is screwed up man you should stop using it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by thejollygreenone

[enabe]

that's what you think. if it does or does not, it matters not. the point remains. people have proven through solid math that having anywhere over 300 crit rating is a loss of dps. how about you start uploading to torparse if you want to be making comparisons? i promise you, you'll have a larger player base to compare with. all the points that you have been making are irrelevant to what i'm telling you. if you want to have a pissing contest lets do it somewhere besides a public forum where people are trying to be productive.

EDIT: the website you linked hasnt been updated in over a year, do you have ANY proof that it is more accurate than torparse or vise versa? no i dont think anyone has that proof because it probably doesnt exist.

 

then i will still a quote for a movie but instead of "show me the money" show me the math that you are using for this because it does not add up on my end for what u are saying and also are u in full 72 gear if so there is some other thing.

[mmerry]

Im 99% sure you have no idea what your talking about enabe. These stat ratings were formulated using a spreadsheet that a guildie of mine made. After the sheet was done, the numbers on his sheets were verified by in game parses to verify the max theoretical dps numbers were accurate. Until you can show that you can consistently keep up with the highest dummy/raid parsing shadows and sins in the game, you probably shouldn't be trying to give out information, but should try and learn a thing or two from the information that is being presented by others.

 

Also here is a real fight. HM Thrasher is probably the most tank n spank single target fight in the game if you are on the ground tunneling him. AKA no target switches and limited movement.

 

Edit - here is the math https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjFKX4r0-jTxdFNWZWlGaDBmbTdBcDBGQmJjNFpCNWc#gid=8

Edited July 30, 2013 by mmerry

[thejollygreenone]

Im 99% sure you have no idea what your talking about enabe. These stat ratings were formulated using a spreadsheet that a guildie of mine made. After the sheet was done, the numbers on his sheets were verified by in game parses to verify the max theoretical dps numbers were accurate. Until you can show that you can consistently keep up with the highest dummy/raid parsing shadows and sins in the game, you probably shouldn't be trying to give out information, but should try and learn a thing or two from the information that is being presented by others.

 

Also here is a real fight. HM Thrasher is probably the most tank n spank single target fight in the game if you are on the ground tunneling him. AKA no target switches and limited movement.

 

Edit - here is the math https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjFKX4r0-jTxdFNWZWlGaDBmbTdBcDBGQmJjNFpCNWc#gid=8

 

to validate his point, mmerry is none other than wild-berry, currently the second best shadow dps on the torparse leaderboards.

[enabe]

to validate his point, mmerry is none other than wild-berry, currently the second best shadow dps on the torparse leaderboards.

 

like i said i can careless what torparse say to me it is inflating the numbers i just want to see the math behind what u are stating i am tring to open the math he has provde but still waiting for access so until then i am sticking with show me the math then once i see it and i run over the numbers that are provide and i can verify them. i will change my tone towards what you say

Edited July 30, 2013 by enabe

[enabe]

that's what you think. if it does or does not, it matters not. the point remains. people have proven through solid math that having anywhere over 300 crit rating is a loss of dps. how about you start uploading to torparse if you want to be making comparisons? i promise you, you'll have a larger player base to compare with. all the points that you have been making are irrelevant to what i'm telling you. if you want to have a pissing contest lets do it somewhere besides a public forum where people are trying to be productive.

EDIT: the website you linked hasnt been updated in over a year, do you have ANY proof that it is more accurate than torparse or vise versa? no i dont think anyone has that proof because it probably doesnt exist.

EDIT:EDIT: i just uploaded a 5 minute dummy parse to this website of yours. it came out saying it was 2 minutes. this website of yours is screwed up man you should stop using it.

 

it only should 2 min because that is all you did then because it works fine i log fights on it daily testing new things out on different toons and i have no problems with it

[thejollygreenone]

like i said i can careless what torparse say to me it is inflating the numbers i just want to see the math behind what u are stating i am tring to open the math he has provde but still waiting for access so until then i am sticking with show me the math then once i see it and i run over the numbers that are provide and i can verify them. i will change my tone towards what you say

 

...have fun with that. you could care less what torparse has to say, i could care less what you have to say. go look at the spreadsheet, see that you are wrong, keep thinking that your random website is better than torparse, and keep getting angry when someone opposes your opinion. we, on the other hand, will keep going as we had, with nothing changing from this conversation.

[thejollygreenone]

it only should 2 min because that is all you did then because it works fine i log fights on it daily testing new things out on different toons and i have no problems with it

 

lol it only showed 2 minutes because i only did 2 minutes? were you there? because i think i know how to count, and how much time has passed. i promise you, i looked at my stopwatch and it said 5 minutes, while your dinky website said 2:10. theres something wrong there.

[enabe]

...have fun with that. you could care less what torparse has to say, i could care less what you have to say. go look at the spreadsheet, see that you are wrong, keep thinking that your random website is better than torparse, and keep getting angry when someone opposes your opinion. we, on the other hand, will keep going as we had, with nothing changing from this conversation.

 

dude dont get mad because i want to see the math i am not getting mad i just want to see the math is all you are the one that is getting mad i just want to see the math so this way me and my guild can compare are math and see where we might have miss caluclated is all i want i am not mad someone has a different opinion then what i have i just like proof is all now my other question for you is there a problem with my tanking set up then as well

Edited July 30, 2013 by enabe

[thejollygreenone]

dud dont get mad because i want to see the math i am not getting mad i just want to see the math is all you are the one that is getting mad i just want to see the math so this way me and my guild can compare are math and see where we might have miss caluclated is all i want i am not mad someone has a different opinion then what i have i just like proof is all now my other question for you is there a problem with my tanking set up then as well

 

i've been calm this whole time buddy. all i'm trying to say is you need to stop boasting about this website that may very well bebroken since its been left un-updated for over a yea. just be logical, wait for the spreadsheet to be shown to you and you will have your proof. and now i'll say once again, get back to the matter at hand. if we're not talking about the proper level of crit to be using in pve there's no reason to contribute to the current conversation. hopefully this will put an end to this silliness.

[enabe]

now that i have seen the math you dont recieve DR until you hit a cit rating number of 1125 which is about 15% just from critrating. then you do get DR until you hit your main stat until about 3710 which is 8.75% then with your base stat for crit is 5% so if my math is correct with the numbers that was provide by you guys that comes to 28.75% which does not include the bonus crit you get from having all the datacrons for str.which gives you .5% so i am just going with the math you guys proved and my 30% crit rating looks right on Edited July 30, 2013 by enabe

[thejollygreenone]

now that i have seen the math you dont recieve DR until you hit a cite rating number of 1125 which is about 15% just from critrating. then you do get DR until you hit your main stat until about 3710 which is 8.75% then with your base stat for crit is 5% so if my math is correct with the numbers that was provide by you guys that comes to 28.75% which does not include the bonus crit you get from having all the datacrons for str.which gives you .5% so i am just going with the math you guys proved and my 30% crit rating looks right on

 

1125 would probably be the hard cap. we argue that shadows/sins arent suppose to get to the hard cap, we wouldnt have enough power. the math you should be looking at is the projected dps with different stats, go ahead and put in on the spreadsheet having 1125 crit rating and however much less power that would be than doing 285. i promise you it wont be pretty.

EDIT: if you look at the DR rate on a graph it shows you a curved line, that will better show you how inefficient it would be to go that high, the curve is much more drastic at 1000 than it is at 300.

Edited July 30, 2013 by thejollygreenone

[mmerry]

I went ahead and played around with the numbers. Here is what I came up with

 

at 1125 crit:

WP 3117
STR 155
PWR 618.67
Force Power 2083
Crit 1125
Surge 402
Acc 388
Alac 0

Balance Sustained	2,835.22
Balance Burn	3,018.57
Balance fight Avg	2,887.17

 

at optimal values

 

Value Used
WP 3117
STR 155
Power 1152
Force Power 2083
Crit 285
Surge 402
Accuracy 395
Alac 0

Balance Sustained	2,908.41
Balance Burn	3,145.28
Balance fight Avg	2,975.52

 

You can see that the optimal ratings are about 100 dps higher for a fight avg. The dps values assume perfect dot management and perfect execution. Obviously you wont see numbers this high unless you are playing absolutely perfectly, but you can see a good comparison between stat values.

 

edit- also these numbers factor in an Underworld PWR proc relic, an underworld click power relic, and a reusable adrenal.

Edited July 31, 2013 by mmerry