ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

Thanks for point out that typo for me.

 

So now for the original quote- Since you like to put words in my mouth. I present to you the ultimate debunk.

 

 

 

 

Yup those were totally "MY" words.

 

Thanks for proving the following:

1. You don't do your research.

2. You aren't actually reading what people type.

3. You make things up to try to defraud someone.

4. You still can't provide a point but instead resort to personal attacks.

 

You pretty much did wonders for me, I was hoping you would make a slip up like this. Thanks for handing me that. I'm gonna keep it safe to use later.

 

I love the way you edited that post after I used your own words against you. I can't prove it as I did not quote the entire post, but we both know that's exactly what you did.

[TridusSWTOR]

We have had multiple threads about this obviously very hot topic, including this almost 250 page thread. I would think if the devs had ANY intention of really considering allowing class changes there would be a gold post at least indicating that it was still being considered, or even "worked on". Wouldn't you?

 

I'm not saying that the devs absolutely do not have any intention of allowing class changes, but I do think that their TOTAL SILENCE on this hot topic says something.

 

The PVP forums have yet to see any major dev responses for them. Regardless what you might think of them, there are so many issues around each section of the forum, they can't comment on each one.

 

Also the price for them commenting on something invites a huge RISK. Every time yellow text comes up, people will pick apart every single word and fires will flare up. No matter what the topic. They know this is an issue, just gotta see how it plays out.

[TridusSWTOR]

I love the way you edited that post after I used your own words against you. I can't prove it as I did not quote the entire post, but we both know that's exactly what you did.

 

That's why I said "thanks for helping with the typo.".

 

Because it was supposed to be quoting a poster I was responding to. Which is why I provided the direct quote for you, since you are intent on using personal attacks instead of offering any sort of point to the discussion. You have displayed what type of character you are though.

[Ratajack]

I can actually see why you would say that. It's very reasonable to me. I don't agree with it, but the point is fair.

 

This is where we fall back to the whole - "Why does it matter what other players do?".

 

Now you are naturally going to respond- "because I don't want people who don't know there class around me.". That's fine, quite a few people don't enjoy dealing with new people.

 

The thing is, even with our current system, there are people who are new to there class due to trying out a different spec. You will get newbies in either situation, so I don't see how this would make it a big deal? If a sorc was DPS from 10-55 and then randomly changed to heals at 55. He's going to be bad at his class, even though he put in all the effort.

 

So, you're back to the "I want it and I say it won't affect you, so I should get it" argument?

 

Yes, we all know that there are players now who are not leet at playing their class and there are players who will violate "social convention" when it comes to loot rolling.

 

Those people exist now even without allowing class changes. You might call it an assumption, but I will bet the farm that the numbers of those types of players will go up if they allow class changes.

 

There will almost definitely be more players who do not know how to play their class because they were always ranged DPS and now they're ranged DPS, etc. There will also likely be more players rolling on gear to build a set for that possible upcoming class change, for example, the vanguard tank rolling on healing gear.

 

The fact that situation A exists is not a compelling argument for adding feature B when adding feature B will likely exacerbate situation A.

[Ratajack]

 

The thing is, even with our current system, there are people who are new to there class due to trying out a different spec. You will get newbies in either situation, so I don't see how this would make it a big deal? If a sorc was DPS from 10-55 and then randomly changed to heals at 55. He's going to be bad at his class, even though he put in all the effort.

 

At least he put the effort into leveling that sorcerer to level 55. Even if he was DPS the entire time he was leveling, he likely at least used a heal spell or two to keep himself or his companion alive, unlike the assassin who has NO heal spells and has NO experience in using them with a sorcerer.

[Soluss]

So now he doesn't want me to post, and only he can share his views.

 

Another example for the court- Enforcing his own beliefs on others.

 

Amazing, he doesn't want people disagreeing with him, he even admits it.

 

Nope, that's not what I said. I said if you cant take people disagreeing with you then you shouldn't post. IOW, learn to post better instead of the childish drivel that you have been posting.... such as this post itself. You talk as if I am not here. If you want to address something with me then address it with me instead of posting as if its a call out.

[Soluss]

Talk about tantrum.

 

Someone needs a time-out.

 

You think that's a tantrum?

[Soluss]

This is what he got out of what I was saying.

 

Seems critical thinking is a little too much to ask.

 

That's what you got out of what I was saying?

 

Seems critical thinking is a little too much to ask.

[Soluss]

Wow you really are grasping at straws now, aren't you?

 

Oh well, I guess you rather the game be unplayable than offer a choice to another player that doesn't affect you at all.

 

You have been debunked.

 

Now the game is unplayable? Talk about a first world problem.

[Soluss]

And we are back to people who are new to MMO's not being considered at all by you. God forbid those new players, try to get into a game.

 

I love how this cycle goes, once I prove you wrong in one thing, then you move on to the next subject that I can prove you wrong again.

 

I think the pattern goes for you: Ignoring new MMO players--> Comparing this game to other MMO's and making that the standard-->saying level 10 shows you all the abilities you need just as you would at level 55--->Hrmm, you can fill in the last one for me.

 

 

You haven't proved me wrong on anything. Stop thinking so highly of yourself as if your opinion is the only one that matters.

[LordArtemis]

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

 

I love arguments over semantics.

 

I could buy perhaps the notion that the quote was a soft "no", though I think it's more likely it means just what it says.

 

Now, obviously this is no guarantee AC change is coming...one dev simply expressed that they had been in serious talks lately over this and HE thought it would likely happen eventually.

 

He thought. Not it was coming for sure, not it was on the list of future additions....he believed it was coming eventually.

 

Just the very notion that they would be talking about adding it takes most of the wind out of the "it's permanent, Bioware said so, that's it" argument. It seems Bioware is considering almost anything now a days.

 

Note that race change did come....but AC change did not. I think that is noteworthy.

[Soluss]

I know, that's why I labeled you a troll. Since you have no interest in a discussion, only providing insults.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Point out my insult please. You have insulted quite a bit in this thread.

[Soluss]

As usual, you miss the point. Nothing new there and it's to be expected.

 

Yea people have a choice, usually that choice is determined at around level 45. You know, when you start getting talents that matter? Oh but you would know that, wouldn't you?

 

Then they find out healing isn't for them on their sorc. Then they don't care for their style of ranged DPS. You do know there are different styles of ranged DPS? Don't you?

 

Oh, but you want them to delete all that effort because they didn't "earn" those levels. Nope, they just came out of thin air, it's like magic!

 

Take a grasp on reality bud, you really need it.

 

You have been debunked.

 

If they don't like healing on their sorc then they can DPS on their sorc. AC change doesn't effect anything you talk about here, unless of course you cant decide between tank or healing. You should know that before you even roll a character.

[Soluss]

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

 

I love arguments over semantics.

 

I could buy perhaps the notion that the quote was a soft "no", though I think it's more likely it means just what it says.

 

Now, obviously this is no guarantee AC change is coming...one dev simply expressed that they had been in serious talks lately over this and HE thought it would likely happen eventually.

 

He thought. Not it was coming for sure, not it was on the list of future additions....he believed it was coming eventually.

 

Just the very notion that they would be talking about adding it takes most of the wind out of the "it's permanent, Bioware said so, that's it" argument. It seems Bioware is considering almost anything now a days.

 

Note that race change did come....but AC change did not. I think that is noteworthy.

 

Everything has always been open for debate. The devs talked about AC change during beta. In fact they said there were going to put in a 1 time option early on and it never happened. I feel they are looking at the logistics of it all. How many people will it piss off versus how much money they can make on it.

[MajikMyst]

 

Direct quote from you bud. Thanks for doing the work for me.

 

You have been debunked.

 

I do not see the word skills.. Hooked on Phonics might help with that..

 

You have been debunked.. Again.. And you did it yourself..

[MajikMyst]

As usual, you miss the point. Nothing new there and it's to be expected.

 

Yea people have a choice, usually that choice is determined at around level 45. You know, when you start getting talents that matter? Oh but you would know that, wouldn't you?

 

Then they find out healing isn't for them on their sorc. Then they don't care for their style of ranged DPS. You do know there are different styles of ranged DPS? Don't you?

 

Oh, but you want them to delete all that effort because they didn't "earn" those levels. Nope, they just came out of thin air, it's like magic!

 

Take a grasp on reality bud, you really need it.

 

You have been debunked.

 

Nope.. Again.. I am not the one missing the point..

 

As for you post.. More babble and meaningless stuff.. Trolling again as usual I see.. There really isn't much to say to you at this point..

 

I mean seriously.. You think at level 45 is when you get the talents that matter?? Really?? Because from level's 20-55 is about 95% upgrades to existing skills.. Most skill trees on average only give you about 2 or 3 skills that are tree specific.. End talent being one of them.. As for the trainer.. You get some skills, but none of which have any impact on how your chosen class plays.. Slow time does not define what a shadow tank is.. Master strike does not define what a Sentinel is.. Let's face it.. From 50 to 55, most classes only got 1 new skill.. Just one.. Using your logic, someone could decide that they don't like a shadow any more because they don't like phase walk.. Sorry but that is just plain stupid..

 

Classes are much more than the sum of their skills and talents.. You need to come to terms with that.. If it takes someone 45 levels to decide they don't like a character or class.. That is their problem.. I have no sympathy.. They can roll a new character.. All classes play at level 10 when they get their AC plays exactly the same as it does at level 55.. Your skills from the skill tree and trainer do not change the way your class functions and operates..

 

Then they find out healing isn't for them on their sorc. Then they don't care for their style of ranged DPS. You do know there are different styles of ranged DPS? Don't you?

 

Take this statement here.. You question my understanding of the game and then you make a statement like this.. What you are describing here isn't even an AC swap.. In order for someone that is a sorc to go to another ranged DPS class is to become an Agent or Bounty Hunter.. Assassins are mele dps and not ranged.. So I just have to wonder.. What game are you talking about?? If you are a Sorc and you want to go to another ranged DPS class, you are not swapping your AC..

 

I never said I wanted anyone to delete anything.. They can if they want or they can keep the toon to monkey around with later.. Perhaps use it to be a bank alt.. Again you are misrepresenting what I said because of your proven reading disorder..

 

Odd that you make statements like the one above and call me the troll..

 

As for reality?? You are not even close.. Sorry..

Edited July 28, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Note that race change did come....but AC change did not. I think that is noteworthy.

 

Why?? Race changing is cosmetic and has no impact on game play.. AC changing will have a major impact on game play and is not cosmetic..

 

Seems to me you are trying to compare apples to oranges..

[Soluss]

Why?? Race changing is cosmetic and has no impact on game play.. AC changing will have a major impact on game play and is not cosmetic..

 

Seems to me you are trying to compare apples to oranges..

 

I think he is trying to say that its probably about as easy to code in an AC change as it is a race change. The fact that they did code in a race change and not an AC change may mean they don't have plans to do so. Atleast not yet.

[MajikMyst]

I think he is trying to say that its probably about as easy to code in an AC change as it is a race change. The fact that they did code in a race change and not an AC change may mean they don't have plans to do so. Atleast not yet.

 

Perhaps.. But I think it would be common knowledge and understanding to know that programming an AC change is far different than a race change..

 

You would have to change weapon permissions as most classes do not use the same weapons..

 

You would have to give them access to a separate set of talent trees..

 

And then you would have to deal with the armor restrictions..

 

There is probably much more to it than that.. I know with computers, it isn't always simple and easy.. Just look at the issues they have nailing down some bugs.. Like the recent jumping bug..

 

I am sure you know this.. I don't know what Bioware has plans for or not.. I do know that during the beta, the community was pretty against AC swapping.. Also Bioware made a point to mention that they didn't want a single class having access to both healing and tanking specs.. AC swapping would eliminate that rule..

Edited July 28, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Soluss]

Perhaps.. But I think it would be common knowledge and understanding to know that programming an AC change is far different than a race change..

 

You would have to change weapon permissions as most classes do not use the same weapons..

 

You would have to give them access to a separate set of talent trees..

 

And then you would have to deal with the armor restrictions..

 

There is probably much more to it than that.. I know with computers, it isn't always simple and easy.. Just look at the issues they have nailing down some bugs.. Like the recent jumping bug..

 

I am sure you know this.. I don't know what Bioware has plans for or not.. I do know that during the beta, the community was pretty against AC swapping.. Also Bioware made a point to mention that they didn't want a single class having access to both healing and tanking specs.. AC swapping would eliminate that rule..

 

true

 

/10 char

[ForsakenKing]

i am amazed that this thread is still around lol. incase BW is still reading this, i vote to not allow AC changes...ever

[MajikMyst]

i am amazed that this thread is still around lol. incase BW is still reading this, i vote to not allow AC changes...ever

 

^^

 

/thread

[MajikMyst]

I changed my AC at level 45 and I don't like the other AC... Why cant I switch back just this once. It isn't fair!

 

I saw what you did there.. lol

[Anosa]

i think an AC respec isnt a bad idea. I have toonsi wish were not the AC i have picked and i do not want to reroll. I absolutely hate rerolling.

[Hockaday]

 

Yea people have a choice, usually that choice is determined at around level 45. You know, when you start getting talents that matter? Oh but you would know that, wouldn't you?

 

 

You have been debunked.

 

You need to leave this thread, now. This is so factually inaccurate, I'm literally LMAO in RL. Pretty sure I just lost a few pounds...thanks!

 

But really, no, in the only other game I know of that used a similar system (EQ2), you had to choose at level 19 or 20. Your actual class...far before your claimed "level 45". Infact, back then you started out as nothing, then chose fighter, then crusader, then sk / pal. from 1-20.

 

Now, they did do away with this, and you might be thinking "see! I was right"...but you're not. Because you'd still be complaining and now asking for a class change (you are already...) even if we started as Sorc or Sin at level 1.

 

When you decide an AC, it is CLEAR what that AC will be doing. In perfect detail? Not exactly, but most who play MMOs wouldn't understand that detail anyway. Plus, most people...ya know...do actual research into the game they'll play. Watch videos, read forums...

 

If someone doesn't do any of that, we shouldn't lower things to their level, they should raise to our level.

 

Also, you realise if we go with the "you don't get talents that matter until later levels"...that happens with any class pretty much, on any game. Should all games have class switching? at any time they want? Because people can't read?

Edited July 28, 2013 by Hockaday