ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Jeweledleah]

when I play my jugg - I open with leap then smash (unless I'm trying not to break cc) when I'm playing my marauder - I open with leap then smash (unless I'm trying not to break cc) I then hit a few buttons that make me swing my lightsaber(or savers) at things I'm attacking. I also watch out for cast abilities and use interrupts/stuns ( and this particular strategy apply to all characters i deal damage with, including the ones I play as tanks) similar attacks get similar placement, shared abilities - definitely get same button placement. oh there are differences here and there, but they don't play as differently as you'd think.

 

on the other hand - the difference between healing on my sorc, versus dpsing as lightning, versus dpsing as madness... oooh boy. and difference between operative healing and operative dps is even bigger.

 

interesting thing is, and obviously this may not work the same way for everyone.. but I actually have easier time learning new playstyle (like when switching from spec I leveled with to one of the trees I haven't done much with) at at least lvl 45, preferably at max. why? because at that point, abilities actually come together, finally, because you get all the talents that are supposed to harmonize with each other, abilities finally start making perfect sense and you can actually develop some sort of rotation and plan of action.

 

ymmv, naturally, but IMO? learning each and every spec, let alone AC starting with lvl 1 (or 10) is highly overrated. they don't even start to emerge into somewhat more distinct playstyles, until mid 20ties.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Aries_cz]

Like I said, Knights/Warriors AC are probably the least differentiated, as they both are up close swinging their sabers.

But other classes are much more different (Operative vs Sniper, Shadow vs Sage, Commando vs Vanguard, they all play very different)

[Xeperi]

I am sure people would want a god mode button.. Is that enough reason?? People wanting something is the basis for the discussion.. It has to be good for the game and Bioware's pocket book for it to happen..

 

Now that is an unreasonable response from you. You took the quote out of context. A good reason is because people want to. It is enough of a reason. It should be implemented in a way that does not break the game- as I said. Why are you not responding to the part where I say "It should only happen if it can be implemented in a way that does not break the game"?

 

What "breaking the game" means, as a discussion, is topical and productive. People just saying yes or no, period, is not productive.

[LordArtemis]

To bring it back to base, here are the current proposals discussed in this thread.

 

 

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7

 

No AC change allowed.

 

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

 

There may be more, if others want to add pros and cons I can compile lists for both and add it to the post block for the proposals. Only serious, logical, non-insulting pros and cons please.

 

If I have missed anyone else's proposal or wish please let me know so I can correct or add it.

[astrobearx]

Now that is an unreasonable response from you. You took the quote out of context. A good reason is because people want to. It is enough of a reason. It should be implemented in a way that does not break the game- as I said. Why are you not responding to the part where I say "It should only happen if it can be implemented in a way that does not break the game"?

 

What "breaking the game" means, as a discussion, is topical and productive. People just saying yes or no, period, is not productive.

dude, that guy is a straight troll, i would just ignore him tbh. he is damaging his side with his stupidity

Edited June 24, 2013 by astrobearx

[Never_Hesitate]

I hope they never allow an AC change.

An Advanced Class is not like a spec, which changes the way the class is played a bit.

It's a whole new class.

[Jeweledleah]

Like I said, Knights/Warriors AC are probably the least differentiated, as they both are up close swinging their sabers.

But other classes are much more different (Operative vs Sniper, Shadow vs Sage, Commando vs Vanguard, they all play very different)

 

your mileage may vary, but to me at least switching between roles is a much more challenging concept, because you are completely changing your mental approach. dps is dps, whether you dps up close or from far away - your objective is to kill weak to strong mobs, do your best not to pull aggro off tank and do your best to deal as much damage as possible. but mentality between dps and healing and tanking is a lot more different, abilities and mechanics aside. and yet... we are already allowed to do that - switch between roles. just not all 3 roles on the same character. so... why not?

[Aries_cz]

your mileage may vary, but to me at least switching between roles is a much more challenging concept, because you are completely changing your mental approach. dps is dps, whether you dps up close or from far away - your objective is to kill weak to strong mobs, do your best not to pull aggro off tank and do your best to deal as much damage as possible. but mentality between dps and healing and tanking is a lot more different, abilities and mechanics aside. and yet... we are already allowed to do that - switch between roles. just not all 3 roles on the same character. so... why not?

 

The mental approach of roles is not something radical as changing class. When you play at least one healer/tank, you are pretty much up on the "how to heal/tank" stuff.

I for example, leveled my Sage as purely TK, so I did not know a squat about how to heal with that class. My second was a healer Commando, and with her, I gained some basic insight into how to heal (I never healed in any MMO before this one). Getting into healing Sage (when group finder needs it) was then really fast, I just had to read tooltips of my new abilities and I was all set.

 

But, while you might be a two (or three) flavors of DPS on each class, DPS Operative or Shadow will still play completely differently than DPS Sniper or Sage.

Just because you might be an awesome DPS Sage does not mean you would be instantly awesome Shadow DPS, as they have very few abilities in common, or use completely different abilities from their basic set (for example, Project, which I use only while running on bosses on Sage, is very much used in many Shadow rotations). Even when you go with the "shared" skills tree (which, in reality, is different for each class), they still play differently.

 

So, while I am greatly against AC switching, as in my mind, Advanced class IS your class, I could go with something like "oh hey, you played consular to level 55, so your next consular gets double XP (like on Double XP weekends)" legacy trait. So you still have to play that class, but it can be done quicker

[Jeweledleah]

The mental approach of roles is not something radical as changing class. When you play at least one healer/tank, you are pretty much up on the "how to heal/tank" stuff.

I for example, leveled my Sage as purely TK, so I did not know a squat about how to heal with that class. My second was a healer Commando, and with her, I gained some basic insight into how to heal (I never healed in any MMO before this one). Getting into healing Sage (when group finder needs it) was then really fast, I just had to read tooltips of my new abilities and I was all set.

 

But, while you might be a two (or three) flavors of DPS on each class, DPS Operative or Shadow will still play completely differently than DPS Sniper or Sage.

Just because you might be an awesome DPS Sage does not mean you would be instantly awesome Shadow DPS, as they have very few abilities in common, or use completely different abilities from their basic set (for example, Project, which I use only while running on bosses on Sage, is very much used in many Shadow rotations). Even when you go with the "shared" skills tree (which, in reality, is different for each class), they still play differently.

 

So, while I am greatly against AC switching, as in my mind, Advanced class IS your class, I could go with something like "oh hey, you played consular to level 55, so your next consular gets double XP (like on Double XP weekends)" legacy trait. So you still have to play that class, but it can be done quicker

 

by that reasoning, I could also say that if I played one melee dps - I played them all, or if I played one ranged - I played them all.

 

every role and advanced class have unique nuances to them that have to be learned. healing on a sage/sorc is not like healing on a commando/merc is not like healing on a scoundrel/operative. I have all three btw, so I'm not just saying it.

 

mentality switch though from dps to healing to tanking? from when you've been playing as one role and then switch to another because thats' what you got as flashpoint queue, or whatever other reason? I'm not saying is hard, I'm saying its not THAT different than switching between melee and ranged and possibly slightly bigger.

 

I will continue to maintain that assertion of AC being a separate class is nothing more than personal opinion and perception and no more valid than calling it 2 specializations of a single class.

[branmakmuffin]

I hope they never allow an AC change.

An Advanced Class is not like a spec, which changes the way the class is played a bit.

It's a whole new class.

And if they ever do allow it, no one will make you do it, thus making your opposition nothing more than "I don't want anyone else to be able to do it because I would never do it." That's a rather egocentric attitude to take.

Edited June 24, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Ratajack]

however, that would mean that they have to redo the story - entire story, reacquire companions.. at which point one of the main reasons to want AC switch - not having to replay the story they already played through- is rendered moot.

 

so no, that is not a compromise, that's an insult disguised as a compromise..

 

they can already reroll. yeah, they don't get to keep some of the unique items they had on an old character, but at least that way they STILL have an old character if they want to go back to them, in addition to the new one.

 

if you say - but they can keep companions and the ship too - that's even worse. because now you are saying that they have to grind their way back to the level they were before switching AC, seeing as quests would have been completed already.

 

lets be serious here.

 

and also - when you create a character? it doesn't say "chose your story" it says "choose your class"

 

P.S. on issue of diversity. ability to switch AC will actually add diversity. because it doesn't remove any of the advanced classes or their unique trees, all it does is allow people more flexibility in which talent tree to play.

 

flash of the month? make classes/advanced classes/specs balanced and voila - no more flash of the month because there IS no flash of the month. instead of a bandaid, you actually have a cure.

 

that or limit number of times character/ account can switch AC, rendering FOTM concerns moot, since pretty soon, you are going to be locked to AC again.

 

 

If they allowed class changes with a reduction in level to level 10, they could do so and reset the planetary quests without resetting the class quests, meaning that going back through the story line would not be necessary, and give a passive XP boost to make up for the loss of XP from the class quests. Would that mean doing the planetary quests again if you already did them once? Yes, but you would have to them again anyway if you re-rolled.

 

Yes, the game says pick your class when you create a character, but how does the game list your class after you choose an AC? It does not list your class as your story line, it lists your class as your AC.

 

I find the insistence of being able to change class at any level with no "penalties" to be indicative of an unwillingness to compromise, no matter how many "restrictions" you want to put on changing your class. There would be no end to the numbers of people clamoring for "just one more class change" and then "one more" after that, and so on and so on. After all, we all know how well the current restrictions worked to keep the clamoring for class changes down.

[Jeweledleah]

If they allowed class changes with a reduction in level to level 10, they could do so and reset the planetary quests without resetting the class quests, meaning that going back through the story line would not be necessary, and give a passive XP boost to make up for the loss of XP from the class quests. Would that mean doing the planetary quests again if you already did them once? Yes, but you would have to them again anyway if you re-rolled.

 

Yes, the game says pick your class when you create a character, but how does the game list your class after you choose an AC? It does not list your class as your story line, it lists your class as your AC.

 

I find the insistence of being able to change class at any level with no "penalties" to be indicative of an unwillingness to compromise, no matter how many "restrictions" you want to put on changing your class. There would be no end to the numbers of people clamoring for "just one more class change" and then "one more" after that, and so on and so on. After all, we all know how well the current restrictions worked to keep the clamoring for class changes down.

 

because repeating the story you have to replay more than once even if you play a different class is somehow better then replaying the story you don't have to see more than once? really? people who don't like replaying through stories because they already know them - don't like replaying through stories because they already know them. and you most certainly get to know planetary story when playing your class. and then you roll a new character on the same faction - and you see that story.. again. even I'm tired of planetary story at this point and have resorted to supplementing it with flashpoints and occasionally pvp when leveling yet another alt.

 

again whether advanced class is unequivocal separate class is your personal opinion. not a fact. people are not asking to change from jedi to trooper, even when asking for ability to faction change, vast majority of people looks at it as ability to defect, not change class. people are asking for ability to change playstyles within their base class. you are attempting to create a slippery slope where there isn't one.

 

your insistence for heavy penalties rather than added costs and restrictions (not the same thing as penalty) shows your unwillingness to compromise, that you are merely trying to disguise. its not working.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

because repeating the story you have to replay more than once even if you play a different class is somehow better then replaying the story you don't have to see more than once? really?

 

again whether advanced class is unequivocal separate class is your personal opinion. not a fact. people are not asking to change from jedi to trooper, even when asking for ability to faction change, vast majority of people looks at it as ability to defect, not change class. people are asking for ability to change playstyles within their base class. you are attempting to create a slippery slope where there isn't one.

 

your insistence for heavy penalties rather than added costs and restrictions (not the same thing as penalty) shows your unwillingness to compromise, that you are merely trying to disguise. its not working.

 

And wanting to be able to change your class at any level with no drawbacks and dismissing any suggestion that would include a drawback for changing your class is really willing to compromise? NOT.

 

You mention wanting restrictions on the number of times you would be able to change your class. Tell me, how are the current restrictions working out with keeping the demand for class changes down and off the forums?

 

I believe I am much more willing to compromise than those who wish to simply be able to change their class at any level with no drawbacks for doing so.

[Hizoka]

because repeating the story you have to replay more than once even if you play a different class is somehow better then replaying the story you don't have to see more than once? really? people who don't like replaying through stories because they already know them - don't like replaying through stories because they already know them. and you most certainly get to know planetary story when playing your class. and then you roll a new character on the same faction - and you see that story.. again. even I'm tired of planetary story at this point and have resorted to supplementing it with flashpoints and occasionally pvp when leveling yet another alt.

 

again whether advanced class is unequivocal separate class is your personal opinion. not a fact. people are not asking to change from jedi to trooper, even when asking for ability to faction change, vast majority of people looks at it as ability to defect, not change class. people are asking for ability to change playstyles within their base class. you are attempting to create a slippery slope where there isn't one.

 

your insistence for heavy penalties rather than added costs and restrictions (not the same thing as penalty) shows your unwillingness to compromise, that you are merely trying to disguise. its not working.

you have such a close minded view.

 

In every other MMO you see the same quests EVERY time you level anything... this game gives you 4 different stories for each side 2 classes per side per story. Not to mention no matter how you try to justify it, a sage is not even close to the same class as a shadow. Just like a powertech is not even close to a mercenary and a sniper is nothing like an operative.

 

Everyone knows they are different classes and everyone knows this. People want to use some lame excuse to try to say they aren't but thats them proving their stupidity and hoping others are just as stupid as they are.

 

The only reason people want a class change is because they are too lazy to level a new class, they want the pay to win option of skipping all leveling content. However as soon as you allow people to skip leveling they will want to skip gearing and it will never end.

 

If you want another class earn it.

[LordArtemis]

your insistence for heavy penalties rather than added costs and restrictions (not the same thing as penalty) shows your unwillingness to compromise, that you are merely trying to disguise. its not working.

 

I don't think that is really a fair contention Jeweledleah. I think I am willing to compromise and I support the heavy penalties as you call them...which could be valid in your point of view, I'm not dismissing that.

 

You've shown acceptance for my stance though it differs with yours, why be so closed minded with this forum member?

 

I am willing to begrudgingly accept ANY form of AC change, since it really isn't fair for me to try and dictate how others play. I feel strongly that it will demean the AC choice further, and would still campaign for at least option 1, still preferring for it to remain as is, but I am open to discuss other options (as you can see) and I am not closed minded to the arguments of the other side.

 

Just for my support, which means next to nothing, I am unwilling to support anything more than option 1 at this time...though I'm thinking about a few other options, considering the impact, etc.

 

In other words, this particular member probably is supporting what they are willing to accept, and that is everyone's right. As long as they do not try to interfere with the discussion and respect your views I don't think supporting one or two options outside of no AC change is being closed minded.

 

I do think the "All or nothing" and "nothing but how it is now" crowd could be said to be closed minded, but even that is their right (which I do not think you dispute). I think anyone else willing to look at even one more option is open minded.

 

Just my slant.

Edited June 24, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Anzel]

And if they ever do allow it, no one will make you do it, thus making your opposition nothing more than "I don't want anyone else to be able to do it because I would never do it." That's a rather egocentric attitude to take.

 

I love how people are always so concerned with what everyone else is doing. OMG you changed your class!!!!! But but but I don't have any control over that!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!

 

Everyone gets like 20 some slots per server anyway. Who cares if you change class, AC, species, etc? I mean really. Who cares? It's a game. Why do you care what someone ELSE is doing?

[Aries_cz]

by that reasoning, I could also say that if I played one melee dps - I played them all, or if I played one ranged - I played them all.

 

every role and advanced class have unique nuances to them that have to be learned. healing on a sage/sorc is not like healing on a commando/merc is not like healing on a scoundrel/operative. I have all three btw, so I'm not just saying it.

 

mentality switch though from dps to healing to tanking? from when you've been playing as one role and then switch to another because thats' what you got as flashpoint queue, or whatever other reason? I'm not saying is hard, I'm saying its not THAT different than switching between melee and ranged and possibly slightly bigger.

 

I will continue to maintain that assertion of AC being a separate class is nothing more than personal opinion and perception and no more valid than calling it 2 specializations of a single class.

 

I did not apply that logic, if you understood it that way, I do apologize, it was not meant in that way.

 

I was saying that understanding how to heal/tank (the basic, like you said in dps case "do not draw aggro, stay behind boss" etc) takes only one class to understand the basic (see previous parenthesis). Again, it does not mean that if you are awesome Vanguard tank, that you will be awesome Shadow tank right of the bat, it will take some time to get accustomed.

 

The claim that AC = spec hits several major bumps, like the fact that ACs use completely different abilities and equipment.

While some abilities can be shared (for example, Project), they are often used in completely different way (Sage = emergency only, Shadow = one of the main force attacks). Same goes for gear. While it might have same main stats, the secondary stats are often different. So, in theory, you would need to carry around 3 or 4 sets of gear (2 per AC, or maybe heal/tank/dps).

 

Still, being a good Telekinetics DPS (Sage) does not equal to being a good Infiltration DPS (Shadow). Hell, being a good TK DPS does not make you good Balance DPS most of the times, and you retain most of your core abilities.

 

Simply put AC != spec.

No,w as I said, I can imagine getting a legacy unlock after levelling one consular to level 55 that gives all subsequent consulars double xp weekend forever, so you still have to play and learn that class, but you can do so much quicker.

[LordArtemis]

No,w as I said, I can imagine getting a legacy unlock after levelling one consular to level 55 that gives all subsequent consulars double xp weekend forever, so you still have to play and learn that class, but you can do so much quicker.

 

I like this, or another idea, a slight change, is an unlock for AC change that you get when you level one character to 55 in that AC.

 

So, say you level a Sorc to 55. You then get an unlock to allow an AC change from Assassin to Sorc. Same goes for leveling an Assassin to 55...then you unlock an AC change from Sorc to Assassin. It is account wide and a legacy perk, so you can do that from now on if you wish, but only a certain amount of times per individual characters.

 

First, you know how to play the class...you leveled it to 55. Second, you earned it because you worked it up to 55. That means you can correct a mistake, change an AC to what you like since you already earned that AC...you did the work. Your just not stuck with one you don't like.

 

Now, grant it, that would give you perhaps two Sorcs or two Assassins....but one could say a delete and reroll would do that anyway.

 

If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, I'm going to add this and the limited universal unlocks to the suggestion list.

Edited June 24, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Vhaegrant]

I was going to stay away from this thread once I realised it doesn't and never will affect me in any way what so ever. You see I'm an altoholic and while most players view the end of the game to be getting Best in Slot for their preferred style of play (PvP or PvE) I've always seen it as getting the most out of the class stories. At a bare minimum this means I would be looking at levelling eight characters. The other day I finally succeeded at that very task I am now the proud player of the following eight classes at level 55:

 

Imperial: Powertech, Marauder, Sniper, Sorcerer

Republic: Commando, Guardian, Scoundrel, Shadow

 

I planed it so that I would also have one of each character class to minimise any boredom that might occur from having to play the same class mechanics over two characters. So, I am set. I don't have to worry about getting that other class, I've already put the effort in. At most the option to have an AC change would allow me to dabble my commando clicking tendancies while on my powertech (mercenary).

 

On that note I have to say the perceived level of difficulty in swapping over your playstyle from dps to tank, or dps to healer is being overplayed a tad. I've played about as I've levelled, I've changed spec numerous times, on my main I have field respecialisation so I can change spec at the drop of a hat. A good player (and I'm not labelling myself a good player) will be able to adapt very quickly to the new abilities and figure out a new rotation in maybe half an hour tops. The proposed AC change would be no more drastic and in many cases easier than the current situation of those ACs that have the tanking/ DPS options which already forces you to carry two sets of gear around.

Besides which, from the time spent in Pick Up Groups there are enough people that don't know how their single class and chosen spec work to even consider worrying about those that may stumble around for an afternoon while learning a new set of mechanics.

 

I wonder if this perceived level of difficulty is related to how protective players feel about their main class and the skill level needed to play one properly?

 

I would imagine that should the AC change be put in place the vast majority of players that would seek to take advantage of it would be casual player who didn't appreciate how time consuming an MMO can become. Not the hardcore player who is working on a full set of 72s from the top end raids.

This point negates much of the argument about the skill adjustment as the game is pretty forgiving in story mode, and lets be honest very few would make an AC change and then jump headfirst into a Nightmare Mode Operation to see what their new abilities are.

 

Eight level 55 characters should also tell you I have plenty of time on my hands and can afford to duplicate my efforts (it should be noted I only consider the Powertech to be my main and it is the only guilded character for gearing purposes). Many players are not so fortunate to have this time window to play a game and would find it advantageous if, a long way into the game they had the option to alter their advanced class to one that was more to their liking or one that fitted better to their guild composition.

 

For the individual player the ability to change AC is one of convenience and curiosity. It lets them experience a different aspect of play without having to regurgitate all of the same content. And this has no impact on any one else.

 

Within a guild environment there may be pressures for players to adopt certain roles or try to leap frog into the primary raiding group by choosing a more favourable role. That has always been the case. Allowing for an AC change should not really alter this dynamic either. If you are a good guildmaster you should have a handle on your guildies and what they can and can't manage (and if the guild is big enough that this may be a struggle for the guildmaster to know them all then they should have class leaders/ raid leaders for exactly this task)

 

At worst an AC change mid to late game may be seen as a way to swap over to a new feature of the month class and spec. Once again this is nothing new and already sits as an issue in certain advanced classes.

 

If I was to propose a rule-set for AC changes it would be on the following grounds:

 

1) Have to be reset at a certain location not just by accessing an in-game tab. Ideally this would be the original AC trainers back on fleet, it is a central location that is free to travel to, failing that the same NPCs that currently provide the option to respect could also offer the option to change AC.

 

2) Have a timer lock out. This is about as harsh a penalty/ restriction I would personally apply to AC changes. I don't think a set limit of changes would be workable, you'd just see customer support inundated with excuses as to why that last change was a mistake and shouldn't really count. I think a week is perfectly acceptable time restriction, it means it is not a casual enough change to be implemented at a whim and carries with it a realistic waiting time.

 

3) Have an in-game cost. I would have it as a character perk unlock somewhat similar to the way Field Respecialisation works. You have a one off cost per character to enable the AC change option for them, then every AC change has a lesser cost. Lets say for arguments sake 600 cartel coins (or 1.5 million credits to unlock the option) and then 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits per change).

 

These three restrictions place an AC change as giving some additional utility to a characters class without overly influencing the power. You can play as a Powertech or a Mercenary but not some hybrid AC that gets the best ability sets from both.

 

A player could theoretically gear up to maximum in DPS gear and then be able to flip between a ranged DPS (mercenary) and melee DPS (powertech) but aside from a small time saving (and a very understanding guild) would not be able to exploit it in a game situation such as a warzone due to the need to travel to fleet and wait at least a week between AC changes.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Vhaegrant

[Jeweledleah]

I don't think that is really a fair contention Jeweledleah. I think I am willing to compromise and I support the heavy penalties as you call them...which could be valid in your point of view, I'm not dismissing that.

 

You've shown acceptance for my stance though it differs with yours, why be so closed minded with this forum member?

 

I am willing to begrudgingly accept ANY form of AC change, since it really isn't fair for me to try and dictate how others play. I feel strongly that it will demean the AC choice further, and would still campaign for at least option 1, still preferring for it to remain as is, but I am open to discuss other options (as you can see) and I am not closed minded to the arguments of the other side.

 

Just for my support, which means next to nothing, I am unwilling to support anything more than option 1 at this time...though I'm thinking about a few other options, considering the impact, etc.

 

In other words, this particular member probably is supporting what they are willing to accept, and that is everyone's right. As long as they do not try to interfere with the discussion and respect your views I don't think supporting one or two options outside of no AC change is being closed minded.

 

I do think the "All or nothing" and "nothing but how it is now" crowd could be said to be closed minded, but even that is their right (which I do not think you dispute). I think anyone else willing to look at even one more option is open minded.

 

Just my slant.

 

I didn't call him close minded, I called him unwilling to compromise. and lets face it - its true. you are willing to consider variety of options even if you don't personally support them. the post by Vhaegrant btw, perfectly illustrates my own personal stance.

 

but it seems I have to explain what I mean by difference between a restriction and a penalty.

 

having to level a character as a particular advanced class in order to be able to switch another character to that AC - is a restriction (and if I understood you correctly, this also applies to mirror AC's so for instance, I'd be able to switch my shadow to sage, because I already have a sorc at max level) its a heavy restriction, and not the one I think is called for, but its still merely a restriction, not much different from having to level a character to 50 before being able to use their race for any class in a game (although, honestly? it shouldn't be 55, it should be 45 - why? because at that point is when you get all your keystone abilities and spec fully comes together - any added talents are there as buffs to existing abilities, not gameplay changes)

 

having your already level character demoted to lvl 10? is a penalty. you are being punished for changing your mind and its essentially worse then reroll, because with reroll you end up with 2 characters, while with this level down, you just level the same character twice.

 

promoting it as a legitimate compromise is... I'm sorry, but its not. its not a compromise, i don't even know what to call it really.

 

restrictions stop AC from being as easy changed as we can currently change specs. having to pay for it is a restriction, having to go to fleet to change it is a restriction, being limited by how often, or how many times is a restriction.

 

and yes, I'm aware that other games have the same stories for every class. interestingly enough, many of the people who play those games? don't have a lot of alts. imagine that. not to mention we're talking about this game, not those other games.

 

but in the end, it really comes down to how we view a class. to me, advanced class? is not a class. its specialization, that's only currently permanent, because they just arbitrarily said so. not because its in any way necessary.

 

so I'm not asking for class change, like people keep claiming I and others are. we're asking for flexibility in playing our already existing class.

[TridusSWTOR]

With AC changes. It should be allowed since people will be given a choice either or not they want to do it.

 

If they don't believe in AC change, they don't have to do it.

 

If they believe in AC change, they have the option to do it.

 

It's all about one side wanting more QoL options and the other side not wanting them for selfish reasons.

[Hizoka]

With AC changes. It should be allowed since people will be given a choice either or not they want to do it.

 

If they don't believe in AC change, they don't have to do it.

 

If they believe in AC change, they have the option to do it.

 

It's all about one side wanting more QoL options and the other side not wanting them for selfish reasons.

 

thats no different then saying they should just give a max level toon of every class but you do not have to take it.

 

Giving people a new max level character is not a quality of life change its a pay to win option.

 

The sad thing is you guys do not know the difference in quality of life option and giving someone the option of skipping the game. Quality of life like making a UI change so something is easier to see, that is far and away different then giving someone a class they have never played at max level.

[LordArtemis]

I don't think not wanting my AC choice to have even less meaning than it does right now is selfish. Especially considering I don't want to deny the majority the choice to change AC if it is in fact a majority that wishes to do so.

 

It's the way I like to play. I like my choices to mean something. That doesn't make me selfish. I don't need your choices to mean something. That is why I am in this discussion.

 

Painting everyone that lacks a desire for AC change as "selfish", or painting all that wish for AC change as "lazy" is about as silly as one can get. Unless of course they wear a clown suit while doing it. That is probably more silly.

[Ratajack]

I didn't call him close minded, I called him unwilling to compromise. and lets face it - its true. you are willing to consider variety of options even if you don't personally support them. the post by Vhaegrant btw, perfectly illustrates my own personal stance.

 

but it seems I have to explain what I mean by difference between a restriction and a penalty.

 

having to level a character as a particular advanced class in order to be able to switch another character to that AC - is a restriction (and if I understood you correctly, this also applies to mirror AC's so for instance, I'd be able to switch my shadow to sage, because I already have a sorc at max level) its a heavy restriction, and not the one I think is called for, but its still merely a restriction, not much different from having to level a character to 50 before being able to use their race for any class in a game (although, honestly? it shouldn't be 55, it should be 45 - why? because at that point is when you get all your keystone abilities and spec fully comes together - any added talents are there as buffs to existing abilities, not gameplay changes)

 

having your already level character demoted to lvl 10? is a penalty. you are being punished for changing your mind and its essentially worse then reroll, because with reroll you end up with 2 characters, while with this level down, you just level the same character twice.

 

promoting it as a legitimate compromise is... I'm sorry, but its not. its not a compromise, i don't even know what to call it really.

 

restrictions stop AC from being as easy changed as we can currently change specs. having to pay for it is a restriction, having to go to fleet to change it is a restriction, being limited by how often, or how many times is a restriction.

 

and yes, I'm aware that other games have the same stories for every class. interestingly enough, many of the people who play those games? don't have a lot of alts. imagine that. not to mention we're talking about this game, not those other games.

 

but in the end, it really comes down to how we view a class. to me, advanced class? is not a class. its specialization, that's only currently permanent, because they just arbitrarily said so. not because its in any way necessary.

 

so I'm not asking for class change, like people keep claiming I and others are. we're asking for flexibility in playing our already existing class.

 

 

If I am so unwilling to compromise, then those who want to play another class can level the other class and stop asking for a class change, especially since they knew up front that the choice was PERMANENT and acknowledged that they KNEW the choice was PERMANENT.

 

If you leveled an assassin, your already existing class is assassin, not sorcerer, so asking to change that charactger to a sorcerer IS asking for a class change. It makes no difference if you've leveled a sage, so you think you know how to play a sorcerer. The fact is that assassin is an assassin, not a sorcerer.

 

I do not know anyone who plays WOW, guild wars 2 or any other MMO on the market that does not have a stable full of alts. I know that is only my personal experience, but it is just as valid as your claim that many players of other games do not have many alts, as if this is the only game on the market in which people play alts.

 

IF they allow class changes, they need to do it in such a way that it will give those wishing to change their class serious cause for thought if they wish to have any hope of retaining the subs of those against allowing class changes. Restrictions are not going to be enough to keep those who are against class changes playing if they allow class changes.

 

You want to be able to change your class at any level with no drawbacks, and even LordArtemis' suggestions are not enough for you. If it doesn't fit in with exactly the way you want it to be, it's not good enough and not even a reasonable compromise.

 

Compromise does not mean "Do it the way I want". It means give and take.

[Igax]

AC class change has been available since Early access, roll an alt like the rest of us!