ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

Absolutely nothing. The leveling and stories are very fun in this game, but there should also be the option of class changing if you want it.

 

Fixed that for you

[Grayseven]

Fixed that for you

 

Yeah, because your argument has no merits to stand on you have to "fix" other peoples arguments to feel better about your stance?

 

Way to show off your maturity level instead of debating in an adult fashion.

 

Here's a thought for you. If you switched Combat Medic from the Commando AC spec's with Shield Specialist from Vanguard, what would change?

 

Nothing.

 

Why? Because the two AC's aren't individual classes, they are just a different set of spec's tacked on to the Commando class and given an arbitrary assignment to a specific group. Each spec has it's own set of special skills, but they can be plugged in to any AC without difficulty.

 

There is no more difference between Gunnery from Commando and Shield Specialist from Vanguard than their is between Gunnery and Combat Medic within Commando.

 

Your arguments that they are two different classes fail simply because it is the spec's themselves that are different, not the AC's they belong to.

[branmakmuffin]

Is there anything I can add to this discussion other than agreeing with a false belief that AC's are not different classes or that allowing class changes would not have a detrimental affect on this game that you would not find some excuse, no matter how flimsy, to dismiss it?

Is there anything you can add other than endlessly repeating your opinion and insisting that it's fact?

[Xeperi]

Which means if they change the game to allow AC change, that will be right, because the devs are always right.

 

 

Therefore "game" does not necessarily include the concept of "competition." You should perhaps look up the word "inherent" at this point. You should also look up "self-contradictory."

 

...many days later.

 

Ok- to be a "game" it neither must include or exclude competition. Some games are competitive, some are not competitive. I think everyone can agree on that.

 

What we are really arguing then is whether or not swtor is a competitive game.

 

I am willing to say that it IS a competitive game, and would rather discuss to what degree it should be competitive. I think most people who are against or who want to place restrictions on AC change feel the same way.

 

The people who argue against us seem to want AC change with no restrictions; they are essentially arguing that swtor is a non-competitive game.

 

That side is already playing a game that "to my side" is competitive. The less competitive it gets, the less interested in the game we become.

 

The only really relevant/productive point to all of this would be discussing to what degree should AC changes be restricted?

 

The "against ac change" group generally has compromised to become the "pro-restricted ac change" group. The "pro ac change" group seems to still just be the "pro-change ac group". And through all of the argument and baloney, that group doesn't seem to want to budge even an inch towards some compromise. So that group is essentially the "pro unrestricted ac change group".

 

aka pro-non-competition group.

 

We should all get to the meat of this.

[Xeperi]

Repeating myself but in a new post.

 

Should AC change have any restrictions at all?

 

To what degree should AC change be restricted?

 

I think those are the relevant issues.

[Snapsix]

And to think, all the time spent typing in this thread could have been spent levelling a new character in the AC you wanted....in some people's cases they would have got to 55 by now rendering this thread even more pointless than it already is...

 

Regardless of the opinions of the small player demographic these forums represent one important fact remains - if they can make money from it, then you can be sure it will be added to the game at some point.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Snapsix

[LordArtemis]

Repeating myself but in a new post.

 

Should AC change have any restrictions at all?

 

To what degree should AC change be restricted?

 

I think those are the relevant issues.

 

This is my suggestion as a compromise I can get behind.

 

 

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

[PeterTLJr]

Repeating myself but in a new post.

 

Should AC change have any restrictions at all?

 

To what degree should AC change be restricted?

 

I think those are the relevant issues.

 

As a person who is strongly for this feature, I would like to see restrictions to begin with. I dont believe this feature will cause P2W but theres others who do, so putting this in with limited changes, makes it so people who are sick of their AC or picked the wrong one, get the option of switching over. It also keeps your choices important, but gives flexibility, because as long as it remains within the base class, there shouldnt be an issue.

 

 

5 AC changes per character, give or take a few. After that, your choice because permanent because your trainer is sick of reteaching you things.

[PeterTLJr]

This is my suggestion as a compromise I can get behind.

 

 

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

IMO, that level time frame needs to go up, I doubt many people knew they were going to dislike their AC that early.

[Quraswren]

IMO, that level time frame needs to go up, I doubt many people knew they were going to dislike their AC that early.

 

Agreed, We have a guy that leveled a smuggler in our guild and hated it but others kept telling him, Oh it gets better when you get flechette round or when you get to higher levels. He never enjoyed it and spent a good bit of time leveling.

 

It never got better for him and how its a 50 level toon he wont play.

 

I see no reason he shouldn't be able to AC change it to a gunslinger if it means he has another toon he will spend time in game gearing and playing (and enjoying)

 

Thats one reason why I see putting a level cap on AC changes not wirth doing. I'd like to see soemthing like this.

 

• Any toon can AC change at any level.
  
• The CC cost is 1800 coins to buy an AC swap token. (roughly 3 months of coins)
  
• The token once used kicks in a 3 month cool down timer.
  
• The token can only ever be used twice on any toon. (Once to see the other AC and once to get back to your original AC should the grass not be as green as you hoped it would be. You would have to be the new AC for at least 3 months)
  

 

So there is no quick swapping, it's cost prohibitive and every gamer is open to use it, doesn't matter the personal reasons. After using it twice, you're done (elimination a FOTM problem) as well as keeping some form of consequences on the decision making.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Quraswren

[Anzel]

I should be able to switch AC's at will, just like I do when resetting my skill points. They are my characters. I pay for them. I can do whatever I want with them. It's nobody else's business what class or what AC or what spec they are or how often they change. IMEANREALLY

[Quraswren]

I should be able to switch AC's at will, just like I do when resetting my skill points. They are my characters. I pay for them. I can do whatever I want with them. It's nobody else's business what class or what AC or what spec they are or how often they change. IMEANREALLY

 

Fortunately, not many agree with your stance.

 

It would be too much of a good thing. To much FOTM chasing. Like bacon, while great, too much will cause problems and eventually kill you.

 

All things in moderation, even AC changes (with limitations) is a better way to go for the game.

 

ALSO, you own nothing. You pay for access and thats about it.

[Ratajack]

Yeah, because your argument has no merits to stand on you have to "fix" other peoples arguments to feel better about your stance?

 

Way to show off your maturity level instead of debating in an adult fashion.

 

Here's a thought for you. If you switched Combat Medic from the Commando AC spec's with Shield Specialist from Vanguard, what would change?

 

Nothing.

 

Why? Because the two AC's aren't individual classes, they are just a different set of spec's tacked on to the Commando class and given an arbitrary assignment to a specific group. Each spec has it's own set of special skills, but they can be plugged in to any AC without difficulty.

 

There is no more difference between Gunnery from Commando and Shield Specialist from Vanguard than their is between Gunnery and Combat Medic within Commando.

 

Your arguments that they are two different classes fail simply because it is the spec's themselves that are different, not the AC's they belong to.

 

Is the gunnery commando a ranged DPS? Is the shield specialist vanguard a melee tank? That seems to be a very fundamental game play mechanic changing, and much more of a change than going from a ranged healer to a ranged DPS.

 

It makes much more sense for a ranged healer to fire the gun he is already carrying from the same position, than it does for that healer to instantly know how to run up to the mob and keep the mob beating on him, especially since healer armor and tank armor are vastly different.

[Ratajack]

Agreed, We have a guy that leveled a smuggler in our guild and hated it but others kept telling him, Oh it gets better when you get flechette round or when you get to higher levels. He never enjoyed it and spent a good bit of time leveling.

 

It never got better for him and how its a 50 level toon he wont play.

 

I see no reason he shouldn't be able to AC change it to a gunslinger if it means he has another toon he will spend time in game gearing and playing (and enjoying)

 

Thats one reason why I see putting a level cap on AC changes not wirth doing. I'd like to see soemthing like this.

 

• Any toon can AC change at any level.
  
• The CC cost is 1800 coins to buy an AC swap token. (roughly 3 months of coins)
  
• The token once used kicks in a 3 month cool down timer.
  
• The token can only ever be used twice on any toon. (Once to see the other AC and once to get back to your original AC should the grass not be as green as you hoped it would be. You would have to be the new AC for at least 3 months)
  

 

So there is no quick swapping, it's cost prohibitive and every gamer is open to use it, doesn't matter the personal reasons. After using it twice, you're done (elimination a FOTM problem) as well as keeping some form of consequences on the decision making.

 

I can understand some of your points and would like to add/change some things in your suggestion.

 

First,IMO, the coin should cost around 3000 CC's and be ONE TIME USE only. I see no reason why they should allow a second change. I know the argument is to allow someone to back to the original class if they do not like the new one. But everyone seems to be forgetting that the player didn't like the old one, and that most people are claiming that the old class DOESN'T GET PLAYED. It's a crew skill mule, or some other thing. If a character is not going to be played, whether that be as a vanguard or commando, why allow a second AC change. If a character is being played, then the player should really think long and hard about making the class change.

 

Second, I go back to someone suggestion of a class change should reset your character back to level 10. The player should be able to keep all crew skills, characters, affection levels, etc., just have their level set to level 10. That allows the player to keep all those wonderful items they can no longer get in game, so they can play the new class without losing any of the things they have collected. It will also go a long way toward appeasing those against class changes, as the player will have the time to learn the new class as they level the now one. BW could easily implement a passive XP boost to make the leveling process quicker.

 

 

I know you will not agree with these suggestions, but I think that most of the anti class change people would find them acceptable. Most of the pro class change people will probably not, which goes back to an earlier post:

 

 

The "against ac change" group generally has compromised to become the "pro-restricted ac change" group. The "pro ac change" group seems to still just be the "pro-change ac group". And through all of the argument and baloney, that group doesn't seem to want to budge even an inch towards some compromise. So that group is essentially the "pro unrestricted ac change group".

 

[PeterTLJr]

I should be able to switch AC's at will, just like I do when resetting my skill points. They are my characters. I pay for them. I can do whatever I want with them. It's nobody else's business what class or what AC or what spec they are or how often they change. IMEANREALLY

 

I agree, but people like to make it seem that if affects them too. They should start with restrictions, then once people see its not any different then any other games, it'll be a whenever you want deal.

[PeterTLJr]

I can understand some of your points and would like to add/change some things in your suggestion.

 

First,IMO, the coin should cost around 3000 CC's and be ONE TIME USE only. I see no reason why they should allow a second change. I know the argument is to allow someone to back to the original class if they do not like the new one. But everyone seems to be forgetting that the player didn't like the old one, and that most people are claiming that the old class DOESN'T GET PLAYED. It's a crew skill mule, or some other thing. If a character is not going to be played, whether that be as a vanguard or commando, why allow a second AC change. If a character is being played, then the player should really think long and hard about making the class change.

 

Second, I go back to someone suggestion of a class change should reset your character back to level 10. The player should be able to keep all crew skills, characters, affection levels, etc., just have their level set to level 10. That allows the player to keep all those wonderful items they can no longer get in game, so they can play the new class without losing any of the things they have collected. It will also go a long way toward appeasing those against class changes, as the player will have the time to learn the new class as they level the now one. BW could easily implement a passive XP boost to make the leveling process quicker.

 

 

I know you will not agree with these suggestions, but I think that most of the anti class change people would find them acceptable. Most of the pro class change people will probably not, which goes back to an earlier post:

 

Thats a good point, if someones ac changing to get out of an AC they dont like, why allow to switch back?

Edited June 17, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[spectreclees]

I never said I had an issue with a one time change. But if you give someone a one time change then people will beg to continue to do it over and over.

[Ratajack]

I never said I had an issue with a one time change. But if you give someone a one time change then people will beg to continue to do it over and over.

 

This is true and has been brought up many times. If someone doubts that restrictions will not stop the begging for more, just look at the people begging for the existing restrictions to be lifted or changed. If restrictions would really help curb, or altogether stop, the constant begging for more, then we would not have so many people here begging for a chance to change their class.

[Hotomago]

Anybody ever had that "I don't want to go thru the same story AGAIN, to play a different class" moment?

If you want people that request that change, to go for rerolling instead, you should ask, for a different story line on second playthru.

Since that is less likely to happen than advanced class conversion... advance class switching is a perfectly valid claim.

Oh and if you need 50 lvls to learn how to play a class... well... nough said.

[Knockerz]

They should let this feature in game except it should work like pso2. When you switch classes you have to level it. If you switch from a max level bh pyro to bh merc, your merc starts off at lvl 1. Thus, your only advantage is you don't have to regrind rep, earn datacrons, and so forth. Edited June 18, 2013 by Knockerz

[PeterTLJr]

They should let this feature in game except it should work like pso2. When you switch classes you have to level it. If you switch from a max level bh pyro to bh merc, your merc starts off at lvl 1. Thus, your only advantage is you don't have to regrind rep, earn datacrons, and so forth.

 

It would require a lot of work on BWs part to put something like this in, and I dont think enough people would pay to do this.

[Ratajack]

They should let this feature in game except it should work like pso2. When you switch classes you have to level it. If you switch from a max level bh pyro to bh merc, your merc starts off at lvl 1. Thus, your only advantage is you don't have to regrind rep, earn datacrons, and so forth.

 

IF they were going to allow class changes, I think a player's character should be reset back to level 10, the point at which they made their "mistake" and chose the wrong class, despite the fact that they confirmed multiple times, via conformation check boxes, was the choice they wanted to make and they were sure they wanted to make that choice. A player cannot be two classes in this game. If a player changed their class from powertech to mercenary, they would no longer be a powertech, they would instantly and completely forget every powertech skill they ever knew and would begin learning new mercenary skills.

 

IF they allowed multiple class changes, then should that player who changed from powertech to mercenary decide they want to go back to powertech, they would once again be reset to level 10, would instantly and completely forget every mercenary skill they ever know and would begin to relearn the powertech skills.

 

There should be no way to keep your max level powertech and at the same time have a max level mercenary at the flip of a switch.

[SithInitiate]

this topic has been argued to death.. and in the sea of opinions on this issue.. i am on the side of the AC changers..

 

unfortunately, the comparison i have to make is with WoW.. but in this case i feel its relevant.

 

I havent played that much since the release of cata.. but the classes back then i feel help illustrate my point the best anyway..

 

lets take a look at pallies:

 

ret played way different than prot

prot played way different than holy

 

yet players could switch to what they wanted on the fly.

 

for priests:

 

disc/holy priest played way different than shadow.

 

yet players could switch at will

 

for rogue

 

subtly played way different than combat.

assassination played different than subtly or combat..

 

and again..players could switch at will.

 

point is.. the classes played differently depending on spec, as they do in TOR. i see no reason why players in TOR should be handicapped in choosing how they play their base class. i dont care if they are level 10 or 55.

 

as for the pay to win argument.. imo, if they do this. it should be an in game cost ONLY. make it part of the dual spec system. that way the pay to win argument is moot. everyone will have access to it.

 

again, i know im in the minority here (at least on this forum).. but i dont see a problem with AC change. sorry i dont. i got no issue with those that do. just give players like myself the same respect in return.

[astrobearx]

They should let this feature in game except it should work like pso2. When you switch classes you have to level it. If you switch from a max level bh pyro to bh merc, your merc starts off at lvl 1. Thus, your only advantage is you don't have to regrind rep, earn datacrons, and so forth.

 

 

YES, exactly the AC should have been like phantasy star AC system TBH

 

edit

 

LOL the ONE great idea that satisfy both side of the argument, yet both pro and con reject the idea

 

amazing

Edited June 18, 2013 by astrobearx

[I_Sithed_MyPants]

Er mer gerd my class' other ac is fotm, must.....change......ac.....asap!!