Anzel Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 They would have to be closer to 6,000-10,000 for it to be acceptable. I think you're going to be really really disappointed. This feature is coming, it will cost Cartel Coins. People will use it. I'm sure there will be endless amounts of debate in this thread and others but EA will choose the option that they feel will give them the most short-term Cartel Coin purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I think you're going to be really really disappointed. This feature is coming, it will cost Cartel Coins. People will use it. I'm sure there will be endless amounts of debate in this thread and others but EA will choose the option that they feel will give them the most short-term Cartel Coin purchases. I will most likely quit the game if/when that happens and I am sure I am not the only one. EA will have to decide if our subs make them more or less money than giving people the option to pay to change their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I will most likely quit the game if/when that happens and I am sure I am not the only one. EA will have to decide if our subs make them more or less money than giving people the option to pay to change their class. Very few people would quit over something as trivial as this. Threaten to quit? Sure. People threaten to quit over every little change that they claim will "ruin the game." Then the change is implemented and, yet again, the sky does not fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Very few people would quit over something as trivial as this. Threaten to quit? Sure. People threaten to quit over every little change that they claim will "ruin the game." Then the change is implemented and, yet again, the sky does not fall. Pay to win is not trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Pay to win is not trivial. AC change is not P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 AC change is not P2W. Paying for it with CC is pay to win.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 AC change is not P2W. indeed lol pay to win, ok sure bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Paying for it with CC is pay to win.. by that defintion , most legacy perks are p2w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) indeed Glad you agree. by that defintion , most legacy perks are p2w Yup. Buying the Human race legacy to get +100 Presence on all your characters, for example. Edited June 10, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimex Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Ok, I see the above posters are trying to niggle over insults and semantics, so let's draw this back, shall we. A question for those who are wanting AC changes, please explain clearly: 1) Why do you want it? 2) What practical purpose does this serve? 3) What limitations (if any) do you consider as reasonable? 4) Seeing as AC choices are currently permanent, what have been your work arounds for this? I'm asking, because I'm from the point of view of they should not be implemented. If they are, they should at least carry heavy restrictions. However, in the spirit of general discussion, maybe the questions I have asked might shed some light on something I (and others) have not considered. ok, gogogoggo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Back to what I posted earlier, skill trees dont make the class, the class is the class. If I went from vanguard to commando, and gain a couple different skill trees, I'm still the trooper. Keep in mind every class shares 1 skill tree, theres only 2 unique ones between each AC. If you allow class change from Commando to Vanguard, why not Commando to Gunslinger? It's the same evil. Edited June 10, 2013 by Bomyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Yes, you are 100% correct. Which is why I am against the idea of AC change. It states permanent, therefore, expect permanent. I also agree that if BW implemented the once change (and once more, back) to begin with, this would likely be a moot point. If it were up to me, this would not even be a topic of discussion, there would be no AC changes what so ever. However, it is not up to me. Also, it is not up to the people who would like to throw cash at the problem and change AC's more times than their own socks. There is, however, a middle ground. That is the point of view I am trying to reach. A way the people who say "it says permanent" and "it can lead to AC swapping more than a kardashians marrage" can be appeased with the knowledge that with a twice in a lifetime change (swap once, with an option to swap once more, back) that there is still a backbone (however bendy) in the notion that AC's and the choices regarding them still mean something. Also, it allows that small amount of flexibility in offering those who do wish to swap AC's the chance to do so. Of course, there are some arguments which ring true such as achievements and event items (rackgoul plague crystals) which a reroll simply cannot accommodate for. With that in mind, I do (however reluctantly) see an honest and legitimate reason for want of an AC change. That said, I will fight tooth and nail to see the number of changes minimized. Again.. The problem is, there is no flexibility in permanent.. There is no such thing as permanent as long as people ask that Bioware be flexible.. The harm is simply, that the rules of the game mean nothing.. People can get anything they want just by complaining about it on the forums.. There has to be some rules that remain sacred.. What is next?? God mode?? Perhaps not having to level a character?? There is no reason to allow AC changing.. People can roll new characters.. That is why we can have alts.. The argument for AC swapping would have more validity if we were only allowed a single character.. But we aren't.. This issue would also most likely be moot if we chose our AC during character creation.. Instead of at level 10.. For some reason choosing it at level 10 gives people the idea that it is ok to change or it or you should be allowed to change it.. That is simply wrong... I understand the desire to change it.. But on the same token when you rolled a warlock in WOW and decided you wanted a mage.. What did you do?? You rolled a new character.. That was just the reality of that game.. It should be the same with this game.. Changing your class should not be allowed.. Period.. Edited June 10, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Pay to win is not trivial. I'm anti class change and I think calling it pay to win is a little extreme. It's a change that would cause chaos, both within the player base and in the database. It'll cause arguments over gear, and cause flavour of the month classes to appear... But if anything, a class changer would be at a disadvantage due to not knowig how to play the new class, being ungeared, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 by that defintion , most legacy perks are p2w That is actually not true in the slightest.. The only real stat you can get from legacy is presence and that has no real impact on your character.. So no.. Legacy is no pay to win.. Nice try though.. The only real pay to win thing we have in the game right now are the ship upgrades can be bought in the CC market.. Bioware has already admitted to this mistake.. Still, it isn't a big issue cause it doesn't really effect your player in competition with other players.. It doesn't effect balance.. Like presence, in the areas that matter, it doesn't effect balance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I'm anti class change and I think calling it pay to win is a little extreme.. The reason it was called pay to win, was the idea to purchase it in the market was brought up.. Hence pay to win.. Nobody called AC swapping pay to win.. The idea of buying it is pay to win and it is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 AC change is not P2W. No it's P2L because it will allow people to change AC and have no clue how to play after the changes. Can't wait, it will be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Ok, I see the above posters are trying to niggle over insults and semantics, so let's draw this back, shall we. A question for those who are wanting AC changes, please explain clearly: 1) Why do you want it? 2) What practical purpose does this serve? 3) What limitations (if any) do you consider as reasonable? 4) Seeing as AC choices are currently permanent, what have been your work arounds for this? I'm asking, because I'm from the point of view of they should not be implemented. If they are, they should at least carry heavy restrictions. However, in the spirit of general discussion, maybe the questions I have asked might shed some light on something I (and others) have not considered. ok, gogogoggo I actually liked your suggestion of making it possible to switch twice - once to new AC and once back to old if new didn't work out. but to answer your questions (even though at this point I don't see myself using it, whether it becomes available or not) 1) why do I want it. originally because I thought I would enjoy shadow and then realized that I didn't after playing it for a bit. I eventually ended up rerolling her as a sage anyways (and reroll character is far more progressed than shadow at this point), losing character perks i invested into as well as couple of items that can no longer be acquired (including a pet) however, just because I'm not going to use something is no reason to deny it to others 2) what practical purpose does it serve? giving people a second chance to enjoy the story with gamplay mechanics that are more enjoyable to them. giving people a second chance to enjoy a character they may have gotten attached to. 3) what limitations do you consider as reasonable. see above. I do think it should be limited, it should not be as open and accessible as switching between talent trees. I do think there should be a price tag attached to it. I think it should be a choice between cartel coins and in game credits. I'd say about same amount as rocket boosts. 4) seeing as AC choices are permanent now, what has been your work around? re-rolling and doing extra dailies on a main, to earn back the credits that were lost on buying conveniences and perks for the original character. buying extra character slot so that I don't have to delete original character out of sentiment (at least I can do that now, before they implemented extra character slots, I couldn't play that character at all, no space for rerolling). consoling myself with the fact, that at least I'm happy with AC for my main and can still enjoy rare pets and crystal colors on her. P.S. seriously folks. you have to relearn your class mechanics even when you are switching between talent trees. and people already fail at that, especially when they leveled as dps and then decide to switch to tanking or healing at max level. it won't be all that different from what we are already dealing with. Edited June 10, 2013 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) The reason it was called pay to win, was the idea to purchase it in the market was brought up.. Hence pay to win.. Nobody called AC swapping pay to win.. The idea of buying it is pay to win and it is.. Buying gear is pay to win. Buying ship components is pay to win. Getting a +41 endurance crystal in a pack is pay to win. Changing your class doesn't put you at any kind of advantage. Edited June 10, 2013 by Bomyne Terrible spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Buying gear is pay to win. Buying ship components is pay to win. Getting a +41 endurance crystal in a pack is pay to win. Changing your class doesn't put you at any kind of advantage. Ship components was an admitted mistake by Bioware.. Did you miss that or something?? I also mentioned it in another post.. Getting a +41 crystal in a pack is not P2W because of the availability of those.. You can get them anywhere.. They are dirt cheap on the GTN.. Even a F2P players can easily buy them on the GTN.. They also aren't hard to make with Artifice.. My guild bank has tons of them.. Let me know if you need some.. You do not however get a choice on color.. You need to think a little more.. The advantage is being able to do it.. Nobody buys end game gear, for PVE or PVP.. At best you can buy mods that are crafted.. Nice try though.. Please.. Before you post.. Give things some thought.. You are grasping at straws and it shows.. Edited June 10, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) No it's P2L because it will allow people to change AC and have no clue how to play after the changes. Can't wait, it will be awesome That happens now. It will continue to happen without AC swap. Non-issue. Buying gear is pay to win. Buying ship components is pay to win. Getting a +41 endurance crystal in a pack is pay to win. Changing your class doesn't put you at any kind of advantage. Apparently some people think some ACs are inherently superior. Perhaps they think they have chosen the secret optimal AC and if AC swap is allowed, undeserving noobs (who didn't do all the "hard work" to level character with the "proper" AC) will jump on the FOTM bandwagon. Edited June 10, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) That happens now. It will continue to happen without AC swap. Non-issue. Really? Cause right now there's no "magically change my class completely" button currently. Yes people are bad now, but this will just increase it exponentially. Edited June 10, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I bet if all the people qqing about no AC change spent the time they spent on the forums qqing about it, they could have rolled the AC they want to 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 AC change is not P2W. Yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I bet if all the people qqing about no AC change spent the time they spent on the forums qqing about it, they could have rolled the AC they want to 55. Wow.. This is so true.. I have a shadow tank right now.. I am currently leveling a sage because I want a rage dps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Yes it is. No it's not. Your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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