ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Superman_AZ]

But the reason I have a hard time arguing against AC changes is that I just don’t see how it affects me.

 

For instance: If you are a raider, and you play a Sith Inquisitor Assassin (DPS). Someone else has a Sith Assassin (DPS) as well. Now, they need a tank. The person who bought the AC unlock, and specc'd into a tank now has more utility than you. So you have spent 2 years playing a game where you went from a guaranteed raid slot to a 2nd option player who likely gets overlooked for people with an AC swap setup and geared.

 

Now, I am not a raider, for reason just like that. But I can assure you, the 60+ people in favor of this feature vs the millions who never come to the forum vs the devs who took the option completely out of the launch leads me to believe there were bigger reasons at hand to scrap it, and someone knows what those reasons were. Devs would not just develop an entire system, guarantee it at launch, and then scrap it without some sort of justification. Now, the teams are even smaller and the ones who pulled the trigger on dumping it likely aren't even around anymore to fully explain "why".

[Superman_AZ]

What you think they are, affects what they are.

 

That makes you a PHILOSOPHER... not a realist.

[ZahirS]

That makes you a PHILOSOPHER... not a realist.

 

explain difference between the two?

[Khevar]

So, if the topic is NOT volatile... he has no excuse for NOT answering Which brings me back to, why the silence?

That's the question of the hour isn't it? Which is why I proposed the theory that he doesn't know.

 

Perhaps "doesn't know" is too strong. Maybe "Isn't certain", instead?

[Superman_AZ]

That's the question of the hour isn't it? Which is why I proposed the theory that he doesn't know.

 

Perhaps "doesn't know" is too strong. Maybe "Isn't certain", instead?

 

Isn't certain is on par with "maybe", a state of ambiguousness and being unable to lean one way or another. Which is what brings me back to "Maybe". Maybe "Possible" is a better answer from him. Since anything is "possible" and never say never... right?

Edited May 14, 2014 by Superman_AZ

[Superman_AZ]

explain difference between the two?

 

A Realist bases things on facts, the way things are. The philosopher is a person who offers views or theories.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philosopher

 

As a realist, I see the way the situation is. I can hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. But I do not know what the actual outcome is until it happens.

 

As a philosopher, you offer some metaphysical entanglement to your view stating "It will be a yes because the power of positive thinking will make it a yes."

 

The power of positive thinking has absolutely nothing to do with FACTS, and everything to do with HOPE. So if you want to HOPE for a yes, that is your prerogative. As a realist, I prefer to look at the evidence presented to me and try to predict the outcome based on the facts in the matter.

[Thoronmir]

For instance: If you are a raider, and you play a Sith Inquisitor Assassin (DPS). Someone else has a Sith Assassin (DPS) as well. Now, they need a tank. The person who bought the AC unlock, and specc'd into a tank now has more utility than you. So you have spent 2 years playing a game where you went from a guaranteed raid slot to a 2nd option player who likely gets overlooked for people with an AC swap setup and geared.

Still doesn't affect me. I don't raid either (or do any end game group content). That's probably why I don't buy this argument. To me, it seems that the only "guaranteed" raid slots are with friends and guildmates. If they relegate you to the bench as you suggest may happen, you need to find new friends and a new guild.

 

Also can't the same argument be made about anything that advantages one character over another? When they add a new tier of gear mods, I don't see anyone argue against it because I just spent two years "earning" my raid spot and now I'm being benched because this other guy already has the new stuff. Maybe raiders do make that argument ... I just haven't seen it. Because I don't raid and pay little attention to the SWTOR Raid-verse.

 

I realize you're not making this argument. You're simply providing an example of what others might argue. It just seems a tad flimsy to support denying a feature people want. Personally, I don't want it. And you make a decent point about why it's not in the game now. The crux of my post was intended to highlight the fact that, unless a change affects how I like to play, I don't care.

[ZahirS]

A Realist bases things on facts, the way things are. The philosopher is a person who offers views or theories.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philosopher

 

As a realist, I see the way the situation is. I can hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. But I do not know what the actual outcome is until it happens.

 

As a philosopher, you offer some metaphysical entanglement to your view stating "It will be a yes because the power of positive thinking will make it a yes."

 

The power of positive thinking has absolutely nothing to do with FACTS, and everything to do with HOPE. So if you want to HOPE for a yes, that is your prerogative. As a realist, I prefer to look at the evidence presented to me and try to predict the outcome based on the facts in the matter.

 

Philosophy and Realism is the same deal, you cant think of reality without delving in philosophy, hence why Philosophers were realists.

 

A realist in this thread would value the "weight" of the pettition by the amount, quality and pros,cons, after he will use philosophy or his own view of reality to know if its a YES or a NO or a MAYBE.

 

Also been 100% real like me has an advantage, I know essense of things of reality which people don't so my comments have more "weight" than the other person.

[Superman_AZ]

Philosophy and Realism is the same deal, you cant think of reality without delving in philosophy, hence why Philosophers were realists.

 

A realist in this thread would value the "weight" of the pettition by the amount, quality and pros,cons, after he will use philosophy or his own view of reality to know if its a YES or a NO or a MAYBE.

 

Also been 100% real like me has an advantage, I know essense of things of reality which people don't so my comments have more "weight" than the other person.

 

Again, you are using a personal view of Philosophy and Realism... which makes you an optimist

I am using the ACTUAL definitions of each word and showing how they apply... which makes me a realist

 

Being an optimist is not a bad thing, but the power of positive thinking is hardly an argument for how things are answered.

[ZahirS]

Again, you are using a personal view of Philosophy and Realism... which makes you an optimist

I am using the ACTUAL definitions of each word and showing how they apply... which makes me a realist

 

Being an optimist is not a bad thing, but the power of positive thinking is hardly an argument for how things are answered.

 

Again your point of view

[Superman_AZ]

Still doesn't affect me. I don't raid either (or do any end game group content). That's probably why I don't buy this argument. To me, it seems that the only "guaranteed" raid slots are with friends and guildmates. If they relegate you to the bench as you suggest may happen, you need to find new friends and a new guild.

 

Also can't the same argument be made about anything that advantages one character over another? When they add a new tier of gear mods, I don't see anyone argue against it because I just spent two years "earning" my raid spot and now I'm being benched because this other guy already has the new stuff. Maybe raiders do make that argument ... I just haven't seen it. Because I don't raid and pay little attention to the SWTOR Raid-verse.

 

I realize you're not making this argument. You're simply providing an example of what others might argue. It just seems a tad flimsy to support denying a feature people want. Personally, I don't want it. And you make a decent point about why it's not in the game now. The crux of my post was intended to highlight the fact that, unless a change affects how I like to play, I don't care.

 

The main reason I object to the AC swap is because you are, in some cases, taking on an essentially different class. A Sith Sorc Healer is greatly different from a Sith Assassin tank. Being able to just click a button and switch ACs, when we can't even do that with talent trees, is kinda scary. It gives someone who plays a sorc dps to queue as a sith assassin just to skip the long queue and now you have a run with one healer and all DPS. The imbalance and abuse over all needs to be heavily regulated, and Dual spec added, long before this notion is even entertained.

[Superman_AZ]

Again your point of view

 

It's hardly a point of view when only facts and legitimate definitions are used. I am sorry that you thought you would trip me up when asking me to explain the difference between the two, but definitions and facts don't lie. Hopes and dreams are another story.

[ZahirS]

It's hardly a point of view when only facts and legitimate definitions are used. I am sorry that you thought you would trip me up when asking me to explain the difference between the two, but definitions and facts don't lie. Hopes and dreams are another story.

 

why make a pettition fi you dont have hope in it?

 

Are you really that pessimistic and unreal....

[LordArtemis]

I think the majority of players really don't care one way or the other.

 

You sir win the internet.

[Superman_AZ]

why make a pettition fi you dont have hope in it?

 

Are you really that pessimistic and unreal....

 

Again, wrong definitions. A realist makes a petition knowing it could go either way. They are more interested in a real outcome, not an anticipated outcome. An OPTIMIST will make a petition and hope for the best and even expect the answer to sway in his favor. A Pessimist would make a poll and say "Not sure why I did this since everyone will just vote against me anyways."

 

You are an optimist, and somewhat of a philosopher. But a realist you are not.

[Thoronmir]

It gives someone who plays a sorc dps to queue as a sith assassin just to skip the long queue and now you have a run with one healer and all DPS. The imbalance and abuse over all needs to be heavily regulated, and Dual spec added, long before this notion is even entertained.

Again, I'm not in favor of AC changes either, but still can't see how it affects me. To skip the long queue, the Assassin would have to queue as a tank. Your concern presupposes the ability to switch AC after the group is formed. This seems self-regulating. If I was in the group and the Assassin who joined as our tank wants to switch to Sage DPS, the answer is easy. One of us is leaving the group. The Sage/Assassin is definitely going on /Ignore. Also, maybe the AC button can be set up to not work if you're grouped. That would prevent the abuse you mention.

 

I agree in principle that changing ACs is changing classes. But it seems that, assuming enough players really want the option, any rational arguments against it can be overcome either in the implementation by the developers or regulation among the community.

[ZahirS]

Again, wrong definitions. A realist makes a petition knowing it could go either way. They are more interested in a real outcome, not an anticipated outcome. An OPTIMIST will make a petition and hope for the best and even expect the answer to sway in his favor. A Pessimist would make a poll and say "Not sure why I did this since everyone will just vote against me anyways."

 

You are an optimist, and somewhat of a philosopher. But a realist you are not.

 

Wrong, you cant split perception of reality from reality itself.

 

an Optimist, is someone with unrealistic wishes not based on reality

a Pessimist is someone with unrealistic wishes not based on reality.

 

A realist knows reality is complex hence his mind is complex and knows he can alter the world.

 

You act as u were a robot? no real perception or wishes, intentions?

Edited May 14, 2014 by ZahirS

[Superman_AZ]

Again, I'm not in favor of AC changes either, but still can't see how it affects me. To skip the long queue, the Assassin would have to queue as a tank. Your concern presupposes the ability to switch AC after the group is formed. This seems self-regulating. If I was in the group and the Assassin who joined as our tank wants to switch to Sage DPS, the answer is easy. One of us is leaving the group. The Sage/Assassin is definitely going on /Ignore. Also, maybe the AC button can be set up to not work if you're grouped. That would prevent the abuse you mention.

 

I agree in principle that changing ACs is changing classes. But it seems that, assuming enough players really want the option, any rational arguments against it can be overcome either in the implementation by the developers or regulation among the community.

 

With that, I will just agree with have varied views on the matter, Since there are a small handful of people on a fan forum asking for it, and not a vast majority in game clamoring away, it is my assessment this topic will not likely make it into the game any time soon, and if it shows no additional momentum aside from objections, rather than support, maybe never.

[ZahirS]

Devs please tell this fake superman is wrong and tell us Advanced Class is coming

[Superman_AZ]

Wrong, you cant split perception of reality from reality itself.

 

an Optimist, is someone with unrealistic wishes not based on reality

a Pessimist is someone with unrealistic wishes not based on reality.

 

A realist knows reality is complex hence his mind is complex and knows he can alter the world.

 

You act as u were a robot? no real perception or wishes, intentions?

 

I am more like Spock... and you are more like McCoy Or in this case... you are Luke... and I am Yoda. Emotion clouds perception. I'm looking for what is realistic, not what will have a Positive/Negative outcome.

[Superman_AZ]

Devs please tell this fake superman is wrong and tell us Advanced Class is coming

 

You are being quite optimistic they will answer. The realist in me knows the topic will get a response, long before this comment

[LordArtemis]

Yea, in this case I think no response is a response. Meaning "no comment".

 

If I were them Id probably avoid this one like the plague as well.

[Dayshadow]

I levelled through the eight story classes the same way (and am now working through to one of each AC because I like the stories so much, but from the play style of my friends, 8 characters, 1 of each class, is a more realistic goal)

 

If you levelled your Sentinel to 55 first and then found that having levelled your Juggernaut to 55 you just didn't enjoy it as much as the Sentinel (many reasons for this, might even be lack of opportunity to get into guild Ops) would you be opposed to a convenience feature that allowed you to relatively painlessly swap over to the Marauders ability set (a little regearing may be required, but that's not uncommon when changing spec.)?

Or, would you feel duty bound to sit down and grind out a third character (a marauder) to 55 from scratch?

Or, play a character you didn't enjoy just to complete content, participate in guild activities?

Or, just put the Juggernaut into hibernation never to be played again?

 

Allowing an AC swap feature adds to the range of options a player has, it takes nothing away.

 

In terms of PvE I personally would have figured it out ahead of time. I can't see leveling to 55 with an AC and then, only then after all that time, finally realizing that I can't stand it. That doesn't make any sense to me. I played a gunslinger some time back. I finished Ord Mantell and realized I didn't too much care for it. Switched to Scoundrel. If I make it all the way through the story and all the levels to reach 55... I'm OK with the AC at that point.

 

I don't particularly care either way. If someone wants to change ACs I wouldn't mind. I just don't see the necessity, but I'm not opposed to anyone else's happiness if it's not hurting me.

[Dayshadow]

There is just one story line per class for both ACs. We're talking about Commando/Vanguard, not Commando/Powertech like you did

 

Vanguard/Powertech are the same thing. You play one you're playing the other in terms of play game mecahnics.

 

So if I'm playing a commando and want to do vanguard, I'd play a Powertech. I don't need to switch between Vanguard and Commando. If you've gotten so far down the line that starting over is too much of a hassle then clearly you didn't dislike the AC enough to warrant a change. Clearly, you were fine with it otherwise you'd have started over much earlier.

 

Now, I don't care one way or the other. I just don't think AC change is necessary. But if people wanted it I haven't heard why exactly it would be a bad thing. Sometimes it seems people just want to oppose stuff for the sake of opposing stuff.

[ZahirS]

Not not opposing for sake of it, I made a Gunslinger Smuggler but everytime I mod and fight as a scoundrel up close and bad at keeping at distance some mobs.

 

So for me and many other AC swap makes sense.