branmakmuffin Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Nothing in a game is permanent. As I have stated more than once, the argument they use goes like this: "You can't raise the speed limit on this street to 35 because it has always been 25." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 This This is the bottom line. People need to mind their own business and not worry so much about what others are doing. I mean seriously...this impacts those of you who are so concerned about it 0%!!!! Let it go. Again, MMOs are fluid enough that there's no reason this shouldn't be the norm in the industry. There's NO rational reason not to allow it. Nobody has presented even ONE valid reason that allowing this would be a negative to the game or the community. And yet, allowing class changes is NOT the industry norm. I wonder why. Is it possibly because allowing class changes has negative impacts? Is it possibly because allowing class changes is one of those unwritten "no-no's" in the world of MMO's? Is it because the devs see no rational or valid reason to allow it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Kindly point out exactly which statements I am dismissing. You mean the statement that has been quoted all over this thread about the fact that they were looking at allowing AC switching? The one you keep ignoring because you are on a personal crusade because you think that all decisions are final and permanent just because of ONE old statement about one dev saying that AC's are separate classes. Your arguments are weak and are nothing but repetitions of the same old stuff you've been spewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) And yet, allowing class changes is NOT the industry norm. I wonder why. Is it possibly because allowing class changes has negative impacts? Is it possibly because allowing class changes is one of those unwritten "no-no's" in the world of MMO's? Is it because the devs see no rational or valid reason to allow it? It isn't class change. It is AC change. No one is asking for Trooper to Counselor. There are more similarities between AC's than there are differences, but you are too narrow minded to see that and cling to the argument that AC's are different classes just because one Dev said it a long time ago. Edited August 3, 2013 by Grayseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) And yet, allowing class changes is NOT the industry norm. I wonder why. Is it possibly because allowing class changes has negative impacts? Is it possibly because allowing class changes is one of those unwritten "no-no's" in the world of MMO's? Is it because the devs see no rational or valid reason to allow it? Huh...the other Star Wars MMO allowed it. Not every MMO is W0W Rat. Also, what negative? You keep avoiding that question. I don't think you really have one lol. Edited August 3, 2013 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) If someone knows how to play a Marauder, that means they are fairly astute. Which means if they were to switch to Juggernaut, they'd most likely be aware that they needed to make certain adjustments. If they had no idea how to play a Marauder and they were to switch to Juggernaut, they would then be a player who had no idea how to play a Juggernaut rather than a player who had no idea how to play a Marauder. So for the most part the only people who will fall into the category of being unable to play their class correctly post-AC change are those who don't know how to play their class pre-AC change. Edited August 3, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 You mean the statement that has been quoted all over this thread about the fact that they were looking at allowing AC switching? The one you keep ignoring because you are on a personal crusade because you think that all decisions are final and permanent just because of ONE old statement about one dev saying that AC's are separate classes. Your arguments are weak and are nothing but repetitions of the same old stuff you've been spewing. Do you mean the one I have repeatedly mentioned in which they state that AC changes will "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future? Do you mean the one? If so, I am not dismissing it. I fully acknowledge that the devs said AC changes would "likely happen". I also acknowledge that they gave no definite time frame, they did NOT say that AC changes WOULD happen and that there has been absolutely NOTHING further from the devs regarding AC changes since that statement last November 2012. They also mentioned that allowing race changes would "likely happen" in that same statement, and those are now available. But although they did implement race changes, they still have not implemented, or even mentioned again, AC changes. I wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Huh...the other Star Wars MMO allowed it. Not every MMO is W0W Rat. Also, what negative? You keep avoiding that question. I don't think you really have one lol. There are plenty of negatives that have already been posted ad nauseum. You have simply continually chosen to dismiss and ignore them because they do not mesh with your desire for a class change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTLJr Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 There are plenty of negatives that have already been posted ad nauseum. You have simply continually chosen to dismiss and ignore them because they do not mesh with your desire for a class change. Advance class change* Sorry you keep getting confused with classes and advance classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 They also mentioned that allowing race changes would "likely happen" in that same statement, and those are now available. But although they did implement race changes, they still have not implemented, or even mentioned again, AC changes. I wonder why. Because AC change is more technically difficult than species change. Which may very well be enough to keep it from ever happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Do you mean the one I have repeatedly mentioned in which they state that AC changes will "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future? Do you mean the one? If so, I am not dismissing it. I fully acknowledge that the devs said AC changes would "likely happen". I also acknowledge that they gave no definite time frame, they did NOT say that AC changes WOULD happen and that there has been absolutely NOTHING further from the devs regarding AC changes since that statement last November 2012. They also mentioned that allowing race changes would "likely happen" in that same statement, and those are now available. But although they did implement race changes, they still have not implemented, or even mentioned again, AC changes. I wonder why. Probably the same reason we haven't heard anything about the SSSP, or NA to EU server transfers, or a bunch of other stuff people want to know about. Yet here you come, constantly arguing against AC change for no other reason than "a dev said they were different classes" one upon a time? Basically you are saying we should all ignore your comments because you don't have a real argument against an AC change system. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) There are plenty of negatives that have already been posted ad nauseum. You have simply continually chosen to dismiss and ignore them because they do not mesh with your desire for a class change. Give me ONE. Seriously, we have 282 pages. If you know that there's a good reason, give it to me. Edited August 3, 2013 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Huh...the other Star Wars MMO allowed it. Not every MMO is W0W Rat. Also, what negative? You keep avoiding that question. I don't think you really have one lol. The other Star Wars MMO? Do you mean the one that no longer exists? I said allowing class changes was NOT the industry norm. How many MMO's allow CLASS changes? How many MMO's do NOT allow CLASS changes? If you can provide a list of more MMO's that allow CLASS changes than those that do not, then maybe there could be a case made for class changes to be an industry norm. I doubt that you can do that, though. I think you will find that NOT allowing CLASS changes is, in fact, the industry norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 The other Star Wars MMO? Do you mean the one that no longer exists? I said allowing class changes was NOT the industry norm. How many MMO's allow CLASS changes? How many MMO's do NOT allow CLASS changes? If you can provide a list of more MMO's that allow CLASS changes than those that do not, then maybe there could be a case made for class changes to be an industry norm. I doubt that you can do that, though. I think you will find that NOT allowing CLASS changes is, in fact, the industry norm. Do your own homework, that's your claim, not mine. I'm talking about AC change in THIS game Rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Give me ONE. Seriously, we have 282 pages. If you know that there's a good reason, give it to me. There are 282 pages. Go back and read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 There are 282 pages. Go back and read them. Got it. You don't have even ONE you're willing to defend. Nice to know lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 There are 282 pages. Go back and read them. And every argument against has been refuted. There are no good reasons to not allow it, while the very best argument to allow it...that being it gives players an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Is daniel erickson still here? NO, but that doesn't change the fact that the Creative Director and Lead Developer at the time the game was designed stated emphatically that ACs were separate classes and not meant to be interchangeable. Whether he still works there or not is irrelevant. Special Relativity didn't stop being important just because Albert Einstein passed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Do your own homework, that's your claim, not mine. I'm talking about AC change in THIS game Rat. You were the one who brought up industry norms. I did not. I simply pointed out that CLASS changes were NOT the norm in the industry, which by your own quote you acknowledge. This This is the bottom line. People need to mind their own business and not worry so much about what others are doing. I mean seriously...this impacts those of you who are so concerned about it 0%!!!! Let it go. Again, MMOs are fluid enough that there's no reason this shouldn't be the norm in the industry. There's NO rational reason not to allow it. Nobody has presented even ONE valid reason that allowing this would be a negative to the game or the community. Since I had the audacity to point out that CLASS changes were not the industry norm, you want to narrow your focus to this one game, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 And every argument against has been refuted. There are no good reasons to not allow it, while the very best argument to allow it...that being it gives players an option. Thank you for your contributions to this debate Gray. I appreciate you posting on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 And every argument against has been refuted. There are no good reasons to not allow it, while the very best argument to allow it...that being it gives players an option. Each and every player ALREADY has the choice and option to play that other class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 That's a nice straw man you've created, there. LMAO! That is not a Straw-man argument. No real shocker there though. You also improperly tried to use "Slippery Slope Fallacy" last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Thank you for your contributions to this debate Gray. I appreciate you posting on this subject. I tried to stay away from it after around page...hundred and something I think...but I couldn't help myself. I have too much free time right now...besides, while I like my Commando I would like to give Vanguard a go at some point but have no interest in leveling up another toon after the first 15 or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 You were the one who brought up industry norms. I did not. I simply pointed out that CLASS changes were NOT the norm in the industry, which by your own quote you acknowledge. Since I had the audacity to point out that CLASS changes were not the industry norm, you want to narrow your focus to this one game, again. I mentioned that I think it should be the industry norm and I pointed out that the previous Star Wars MMO allowed it. And Rat, the only MMO I'm interested in debating in this forum, is THIS game - my rational for mentioning SWG was to refute your proclamation that it wasn't allowed in any other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Each and every player ALREADY has the choice and option to play that other class. AC, not class, and yes they do but some people don't want to have to level yet one more toon...or have a beloved main that they simply don't like the AC of and would like to try the other side. Reroll is an option, but does not have to be the only option considering how freaking boring leveling gets after you've done it 8 times to see all the story arcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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