ETA on Advanced Class change?

[imperialmerc]

Why? Why would this not be good? Why???? Give me ONE compelling reason jack...cuz so far, NOBODY has. "people won't know how to play" isn't a reason...plenty of people hit 55 and have no clue. So please...why on earth is this NOT good for the game?

 

I'll tell you why: what if you switch from a Guardian/Juggernaut to a Sentinel/Marauder? You now cannot use ANY of your gear (it will be deequipped since you can't use heavy armor) except your mainhand, earpiece, relics, and implants. And I don't know about you, but anybody who comes into a flashpoint or operation with me NAKED, is getting the boot rather quickly.

Edited July 31, 2013 by imperialmerc

[TUXs]

They share SOME things, not everything. They share story, they share a tree in the skills. They share armor, but not main/off hand sets. They play completely differently, sharing only the non AC skills.....but it's AC skills that define the AC and the optimal skill rotations, not the base skills.

 

So.. no.. again.. please stop using ABSOLUTES. They share some things, not all things.

 

Uh...no...again...they do not play completely differently and they do NOT only share "non AC skills"...stop exaggerating. They share MOST things, INCLUDING AC skills. Look at the Vanguard and the Commando Assault tree. MOST skills are EXACTLY the same...those are AC skills, not shared Trooper abilities.

 

Allowing AC change should be allowed. If someone wants to change AC's so they can fill a role in their guild or to better enjoy the game, there's NO REASON not to allow it. NONE!

[TUXs]

I'll tell you why: what if you switch from a Guardian/Juggernaut to a Sentinel/Marauder? You now cannot use ANY of your gear (it will be deequipped since you can't use heavy armor) except your mainhand, earpiece, relics, and implants. And I don't know about you, but anybody who comes into a flashpoint or operation with me NAKED, is getting the boot rather quickly.

 

That's actually a good point...naked players tend to creep me out...so...give me TWO reasons...

 

[Kilora]

That's actually a good point...naked players tend to creep me out...so...give me TWO reasons...

 

 

I don't consider the gear a problem -- but thats because:

 

You are stuck with the same issue if you're swapping from tanking to DPSing -- at least, to some extent. Can't you pull the mods + enhancements out, and just have to buy armorings?

 

Regardless -- that is one of the prices you "pay" when swapping ACs. I *might* be ok with it giving you a set of lvl 30 gear or something (if you're lvl 55 with lvl 50+ gear already), so you can go out and grind some stuff.

 

Or, just be good and start gathering the pieces you need before you swap =D

[imperialmerc]

I don't consider the gear a problem -- but thats because:

 

You are stuck with the same issue if you're swapping from tanking to DPSing -- at least, to some extent. Can't you pull the mods + enhancements out, and just have to buy armorings?

 

Regardless -- that is one of the prices you "pay" when swapping ACs. I *might* be ok with it giving you a set of lvl 30 gear or something (if you're lvl 55 with lvl 50+ gear already), so you can go out and grind some stuff.

 

Or, just be good and start gathering the pieces you need before you swap =D

 

The gear isn't a huge issue when you're switching to an AC whose gear you can use, you can still perform ok and fill in the slots. I'm going to revert back to my previous Guardian/Juggernaut to Sentinel/Marauder argument, you can't get geared if you're naked or even in level 30s because if a newly switched Sentinel shows up with 10k hp in a run of HM Cad, I won't be able to hit that vote kick button fast enough, and that just isn't fair both to me and to that sentinel.

[L-RANDLE]

That's actually a good point...naked players tend to creep me out...so...give me TWO reasons...

 

 

Have to disagree... There is no problem with armor because all you have to change is the armoring slot on most gear.. Plus if you are planning a change there is nothing wrong with carrying another entire set for the alt AC in storage... If you are at a point where you are switching ACs, armor shouldn't be a problem.

Edited July 31, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[TUXs]

Have to disagree... There is no problem with armor because all you have to change is the armoring slot on most gear.. Plus if you are planning a change there is nothing wrong with carrying another entire set for the alt AC in storage... If you are at a point where you are switching ACs, armor shouldn't be a problem.

 

Guys...we were kidding...we were making fun of having to play with naked players. Buying new armor is not only a GOOD thing for the game economy (selling more armor, mods, augments), it has the potential to increase sales in the CM as well.

[L-RANDLE]

Guys...we were kidding...we were making fun of having to play with naked players. Buying new armor is not only a GOOD thing for the game economy (selling more armor, mods, augments), it has the potential to increase sales in the CM as well.

 

**** my sarcasm radar is in the shop... My bad...:-)

[branmakmuffin]

I'll tell you why: what if you switch from a Guardian/Juggernaut to a Sentinel/Marauder? You now cannot use ANY of your gear (it will be deequipped since you can't use heavy armor) except your mainhand, earpiece, relics, and implants. And I don't know about you, but anybody who comes into a flashpoint or operation with me NAKED, is getting the boot rather quickly.

That's their problem, not yours.

 

Yes I am. I think I made that clear already.

Which, of course, makes no sense.

Edited July 31, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Jimvinny]

Uh...no...again...they do not play completely differently and they do NOT only share "non AC skills"...stop exaggerating. They share MOST things, INCLUDING AC skills. Look at the Vanguard and the Commando Assault tree. MOST skills are EXACTLY the same...those are AC skills, not shared Trooper abilities.

 

Allowing AC change should be allowed. If someone wants to change AC's so they can fill a role in their guild or to better enjoy the game, there's NO REASON not to allow it. NONE!

 

I can't believe someone is actually comparing Vanguard Assault to Commando Assault. Clearly, you've never played at least one of these AC's, if you think they are even remotely alike.

 

Also, your final paragraph is inherently false. There are plenty of reasons not to allow it; Your refusal to recognize them does not prevent these reasons from existing.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jimvinny

[TUXs]

I can't believe someone is actually comparing Vanguard Assault to Commando Assault. Clearly, you've never played at least one of these AC's, if you think they are even remotely alike.

 

Also, your final paragraph is inherently false. There are plenty of reasons not to allow it; Your refusal to recognize them does not prevent these reasons from existing.

 

I play both. They are remarkably similar.

 

What are the reasons then? If there are "plenty", give me your best two reasons why this shouldn't be allowed. Just two. Your best two...you have "plenty" to choose from, gimme two.

Edited July 31, 2013 by TUXs

[Ratajack]

I play both. They are remarkably similar.

 

What are the reasons then? If there are "plenty", give me your best two reasons why this shouldn't be allowed. Just two. Your best two...you have "plenty" to choose from, gimme two.

 

You want to talk about classes changing and being nerfed? If warrior gets nerfed in WOW, do warriors get to change class to pally or DK? Classes change all the time. This month's OP class is next month's ugly stepchild. Class changes are not something that you will find in most mainstream successful MMO's, and there is a reason for that.

 

Allowing class changes will definitely cost BW some subscribers and even some of the F2P or premium players will stop playing. We have no way of knowing how many. Will they lose more than they "regain"? You can claim that they will not lose players, but you have no more proof that they will not lose players than you do that they will "regain" or "keep" players they might lose if they do not allow class changes.

 

We've already shown that allowing class changes will drastically increase the numbers of players that cannot play their class and also the numbers of players that will roll on gear better suited for another member of the party. The fact that problem A already exists is not reason to increase the frequency of problem A by introducing feature B.

 

The predominate reason for wanting class change is "an aversion to work or effort". There is a word for that. If a player wants to play a new class, then they can make use of the mechanics already in place to play that new class.

 

Allowing class changes would probably cost BW some sales on the CM. People will often buy unlocks for alts, as well as other items, whether that be dyes, XP boosts, new gear sets, new mounts or whatever.

[TUXs]

Class changes are not something that you will find in most mainstream successful MMO's, and there is a reason for that.

 

Allowing class changes will definitely cost BW some subscribers and even some of the F2P or premium players will stop playing.

 

We've already shown that allowing class changes will drastically increase the numbers of players that cannot play their class

 

The predominate reason for wanting class change is "an aversion to work or effort".

 

Allowing class changes would probably cost BW some sales on the CM.

 

O M G L O L!

 

Then give me your freaking REASON!!!!!!

 

If there's a "reason", give it to me. All you've put up there is stupid speculation and completely baseless assumptions. You've proven nothing except your intolerance to change and your desire to control what other people do.

 

There's NO valid reason (plenty of stupid ones) to not allow it. NONE! It's all about control lol.

[Ratajack]

O M G L O L!

 

Then give me your freaking REASON!!!!!!

 

If there's a "reason", give it to me. All you've put up there is stupid speculation and completely baseless assumptions. You've proven nothing except your intolerance to change and your desire to control what other people do.

 

There's NO valid reason (plenty of stupid ones) to not allow it. NONE! It's all about control lol.

 

You can dismiss those REASONS if you wish. By your logic in dismissing those REASONS, you have provided NO reason to allow it. The "reasons" you have provided for implementing class changes have no more proof or validity than the ones I provided as to why the game mechanics should remain as they are, the way the devs designed and implemented them. All you have done is put up baseless speculation and assumption.

[Ratajack]

O M G L O L!

 

Then give me your freaking REASON!!!!!!

 

If there's a "reason", give it to me. All you've put up there is stupid speculation and completely baseless assumptions. You've proven nothing except your intolerance to change and your desire to control what other people do.

 

There's NO valid reason (plenty of stupid ones) to not allow it. NONE! It's all about control lol.

 

In the end, one of us is arguing for an existing game mechanic, designed and implemented by the devs, to be changed and one of us is asking that the game mechanic in question not be changed. Which one of is trying to control how the game is played? Would that be the one trying to change the game to suit himself, or the one asking that it NOT be changed?

[shadowrouge]

I hate this debate but here goes. The main reason not to change is the Guard/Sent, Jug/Mara.

One uses heavy armor the other medium. One uses one weapon the other uses two. Sure they share one tree. but the other two tress don't have a single thing in common.

 

One is Tank/Dps off tank. the other is DPS plain and simple. Ones DPS is hard heavy hitting single blows. The other is fast multiple low hitting blows. These two do not make good AC switching. Playing one well does not mean you can play the other well on the fly.

 

So do I care if they allow it? yes. Should you be able to tell someone switched AC before you group with them. Yes.

 

Will they? have no idea. Let those that want it have it. But make it a CC market item that is one time per buy use. and make it 5000+ CC's. and put it on a one week cool down and I will have no problems with it. Will slow down the Flav of the month crowd and make BW money so I can have more content to play with my Toons I lvled from lvl 1

[Soluss]

Which, of course, makes no sense.

 

Makes sense to me. What do you care anyways.

[TUXs]

You can dismiss those REASONS if you wish. By your logic in dismissing those REASONS, you have provided NO reason to allow it. The "reasons" you have provided for implementing class changes have no more proof or validity than the ones I provided as to why the game mechanics should remain as they are, the way the devs designed and implemented them. All you have done is put up baseless speculation and assumption.

 

I asked for a valid reason, you gave me a list of garbage excuses without anything to support your fictitious claims.

 

The reason to allow it is simple...some players want to use it. If that's what it takes to keep people interested, I'm 100% for it. Just because the Devs designed something one way, doesn't mean it was right. Remember the game at launch? You could only have 2 windows open at a time, opening a 3rd, closed one, a companion returning, closed one. They changed that thankfully because it was...a BAD design.

 

In the end, one of us is arguing for an existing game mechanic, designed and implemented by the devs, to be changed and one of us is asking that the game mechanic in question not be changed. Which one of is trying to control how the game is played? Would that be the one trying to change the game to suit himself, or the one asking that it NOT be changed?

 

Yes, you'd like to keep it the way it is, I believe there are numerous valid reasons to allow it. My main reason is CHOICE! I'm not trying to change the game to suit my needs either, I have a Vanguard, a Commando, a Sage, a Sentinel and an Agent. I like my AC's and my original choices. I wouldn't change any of them. But I know players who would like to and I'm certain there are many who would like to that I don't know. Just because you believe that this shouldn't be changed, doesn't mean you're right...nor does it mean I am...we just differ in our opinions on it.

 

I still haven't heard that ONE good reason not to allow it. Not one. I challenge you one more time...please, give me ONE valid reason this would be bad for the game.

[branmakmuffin]

Makes sense to me. What do you care anyways.

How do you justify being in favor of the more drastic change? Because you like it? Well, then, if that's justification in your mind for allowing faction change, then it's way more than enough to implement the much less drastic change of AC swap.

[Soluss]

How do you justify being in favor of the more drastic change? Because you like it? Well, then, if that's justification in your mind for allowing faction change, then it's way more than enough to implement the much less drastic change of AC swap.

 

Because it would fit with the lore of turning to the darkside or lightside and I think they could make a really awesome questline out of it. It could give some meaning to the light/dark choices. Meaning they could implement something that you have to go the opposite you are. If you are light then you would have to reach dark V to even get the questline. I also don't expect it to ever happen and if it did then probably a straight CC unlock, which I would not be on board with.

 

I also don't have to justify to you or anyone else, why I am or am not on board with anything.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Soluss

[drorold]

hey you all mybe just talk to swtor ! if you rally wan to ac change i wan it we need do something like this

[Ratajack]

I asked for a valid reason, you gave me a list of garbage excuses without anything to support your fictitious claims.

 

The reason to allow it is simple...some players want to use it. If that's what it takes to keep people interested, I'm 100% for it. Just because the Devs designed something one way, doesn't mean it was right. Remember the game at launch? You could only have 2 windows open at a time, opening a 3rd, closed one, a companion returning, closed one. They changed that thankfully because it was...a BAD design.

 

 

 

Yes, you'd like to keep it the way it is, I believe there are numerous valid reasons to allow it. My main reason is CHOICE! I'm not trying to change the game to suit my needs either, I have a Vanguard, a Commando, a Sage, a Sentinel and an Agent. I like my AC's and my original choices. I wouldn't change any of them. But I know players who would like to and I'm certain there are many who would like to that I don't know. Just because you believe that this shouldn't be changed, doesn't mean you're right...nor does it mean I am...we just differ in our opinions on it.

 

I still haven't heard that ONE good reason not to allow it. Not one. I challenge you one more time...please, give me ONE valid reason this would be bad for the game.

 

We've given MANY reasons not to allow it. You just choose to dismiss and ignore them. Many do not consider "choice" to be a good reason to allow class changes considering the possible (probable) negative impact on the game.

 

Let's fact the truth. The MAIN reason people are asking for class changes is because they do not want to put the time or effort into actually leveling that new class. The one argument that I consider the most valid is those players who have unique items on their main that can no longer be obtained in game. To address this, though, there have been suggested compromises which would allow players to change class, but also address most of the major concerns that those opposed to class changes have expressed. Most of those wanting class changes refuse to even consider these suggested compromises, though.

[Jimvinny]

I asked for a valid reason, you gave me a list of garbage excuses without anything to support your fictitious claims.

 

The reason to allow it is simple...some players want to use it. If that's what it takes to keep people interested, I'm 100% for it. Just because the Devs designed something one way, doesn't mean it was right. Remember the game at launch? You could only have 2 windows open at a time, opening a 3rd, closed one, a companion returning, closed one. They changed that thankfully because it was...a BAD design.

 

 

 

Yes, you'd like to keep it the way it is, I believe there are numerous valid reasons to allow it. My main reason is CHOICE! I'm not trying to change the game to suit my needs either, I have a Vanguard, a Commando, a Sage, a Sentinel and an Agent. I like my AC's and my original choices. I wouldn't change any of them. But I know players who would like to and I'm certain there are many who would like to that I don't know. Just because you believe that this shouldn't be changed, doesn't mean you're right...nor does it mean I am...we just differ in our opinions on it.

 

I still haven't heard that ONE good reason not to allow it. Not one. I challenge you one more time...please, give me ONE valid reason this would be bad for the game.

 

If you think the reason to allow it is simply that players want it, I'll counter with this; It should not be allowed, because there are lots of players that DON'T want it.

[LordArtemis]

My reasons are valid, and your reasons are garbage!!!

 

No, my reasons are valid and your reasons are garbage!!!

 

There is no valid reason why this should not be added!!!

 

No, there is no valid reason why this should be allowed!!!

 

Seriously guys? You feel this somehow furthers your point? What exactly about this kind of exchange do you think is compelling and intuitive?

[TUXs]

Let's fact the truth. The MAIN reason people are asking for class changes is because they do not want to put the time or effort into actually leveling that new class

 

Ah...ok. Your "fact" is that you want to punish players who wish to change ACs by making them reroll the class. You don't see how someone switching to a heal/tank/dps role could possibly benefit the community? You see this as ONLY a selfish request.

 

My reason for wanting it is...if it makes someone happy, go for it. Why would I seriously care what AC someone else wanted to be? There's NO negative to allowing it...not for me, not for the community. The only reason I've heard for NOT allowing it is punitive.