ETA on Advanced Class change?

[justandulas]

No, it's not.

 

Your turn.

 

 

In your opinion, regarding both of your assertions in that sentence.

 

It has been discussed and debated since beta years back. The community more or less agrees with my opinion that it would be more harmful than beneficial to this game since AC's are seperate CLASSES (Not specs). Everytime this topic is brought up, the vote is overwhelmingly AGAINST AC switching.

[Soluss]

No, it's not.

 

Your turn.

 

 

In your opinion, regarding both of your assertions in that sentence.

 

Actually, the Devs do consider the AC's to be its own class. They have said so. The reason it was done this way was to avoid the cost of separate story. That is not opinion.

[ekwalizer]

In your opinion, regarding both of your assertions in that sentence.

 

It isn't just his opinion.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=178253

Quote: Originally Posted by DanielErickson

Inside each one of those, we treated those as a full class

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=574157

Quote:

Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.

 

Now, that said: http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

Did say that it was "likely". Likely is not "going to happen". This interview was conducted over 9 months ago and BW had just lost Daniel Erickson. So, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into that until you start to see it from a Gold Name on these forums, or in the patch notes.

 

At this point there is very little you can do to alter the state of the game. Your argument has been lost by people who made the same case, better.

 

You lost the moral high ground a long time ago when you and Tidus resorted to condescension and name calling.

Edited July 29, 2013 by ekwalizer

[justandulas]

At this point there is very little you can do to alter the state of the game. Your argument has been lost by people who made the same case, better.

 

Exactly. With all the issues facing SWTOR's future, the lack of pvp content, the missing SSSP, etc... he wants to selfishly waste dev time on AC switching? It would take them forever to get AC switching coded right, would come with an abundance of bugs, and would take development time away from REAL content that matters

[dscount]

I think a AC Change ONLY in the same CLASS should be available.

 

SORC can change to SIN and SIN to SORC.

SNIPER can change to OPERATIVE and OPERATIVE to SNIPER.

MERC to POWERTECH or POWERTECH to MERC.

 

TOTALLY Disagree with going cross class for any changes. (SNIPER> JUGG or MERC > SORC)

[branmakmuffin]

I think a AC Change ONLY in the same CLASS should be available.

 

SORC can change to SIN and SIN to SORC.

SNIPER can change to OPERATIVE and OPERATIVE to SNIPER.

MERC to POWERTECH or POWERTECH to MERC.

 

TOTALLY Disagree with going cross class for any changes. (SNIPER> JUGG or MERC > SORC)

No one is suggesting that. It would probably be too difficult to do in light of the story and companions in any event, as hard as changing factions or genders.

 

It isn't just his opinion.

It's his opinion and the opinions of others who share that opinion. No players opinion will carry the day. If BWEA decides it will, overall, be a money-maker, that's all that matters.

 

At this point there is very little you can do to alter the state of the game. Your argument has been lost by people who made the same case, better.

If it helps you sleep at night to think so, no one can stop you.

Edited July 29, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[JokerThe]

is that to change the type of spec u want to be say like change my guardian to a sentinel is that what u mean.

[JokerThe]

is that to change the type of spec u want to be say like change my guardian to a sentinel is that what u mean.

[DAMossimo]

It's his opinion and the opinions of others who share that opinion. No players opinion will carry the day. If BWEA decides it will, overall, be a money-maker, that's all that matters.

 

That's true; and the fact that nothing has been announced in quite a while is evidence that it doesn't seem to be a viable money-maker for them. When all is considered (losing revenue from additional unlocks, additional armors, XP boosts, etc...), they would have to price the AC switch so high that few would take advantage of it. You see people complaining now about the cost of server transfers. They probably just don't want to come right out and state it in gold and gray right now as touchy as the playerbase is.

[LordArtemis]

It has been discussed and debated since beta years back. The community more or less agrees with my opinion that it would be more harmful than beneficial to this game since AC's are seperate CLASSES (Not specs). Everytime this topic is brought up, the vote is overwhelmingly AGAINST AC switching.

 

Well, not in this thread. Perhaps things are changing, but in this thread it has been pretty much even across the board.

 

It is about the same ratio as those supporting and opposed to sprint at level 1.

 

Also, DE was the loudest and most consistent voice against AC change....the only issue on which he and I ever agreed. He is, of course, gone from the game now.

 

He was also dead set against allowing cross class gear appearance, orange moddable gear, sprint at level 1, connected shuttle paths, quick travel, convenience in the game, a market, free to play, appearance and race change after creation and mail to opposing faction characters.

 

The latest comment from anyone on the Dev staff is much more pro change than in the past.

 

This is one of the things that I worry about. I am VERY HAPPY that DE and devs like him are gone from the game (the game would have been better off if he had never been part of the staff IMO) but that of course means that AC change is open game now like all the other restrictions in place that almost buried the game.

 

I don't think a lack of AC is one of the restrictions that hurt the game originally though....but naturally it's on the table like all the others.

Edited July 29, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

A side note, and I'm just speculating here, but one might think that if, based on internal metrics this represented a money maker for them it would have already been implemented, or perhaps mentioned again.

 

It's been a while, race change was already introduced but not another peep about AC change.

 

I am hopeful that this means, at least for now, it is not considered something they are going to add.

[Toweleeeie]

Wish people cared about ability delay as much as this stupid topic. Over 2000 posts... So stupid. Post about something that actually matters. This topic doesn't matter at all and will not effect the community in the slightest.

 

But I'll add my 2 cents, only allow dps only classes to change to tanks bc we need a lot more.

[MajikMyst]

A side note, and I'm just speculating here, but one might think that if, based on internal metrics this represented a money maker for them it would have already been implemented, or perhaps mentioned again.

 

It's been a while, race change was already introduced but not another peep about AC change.

 

I am hopeful that this means, at least for now, it is not considered something they are going to add.

 

The money issue has already been considered.. They make more money on alts than they would on allowing AC swapping..

 

You have to consider that in order for them to make any money on it, people have to buy it.. So making it some super expensive price isn't going to work.. It has to be reasonable for people to buy it.. The other issue is, would it be one time thing or just would it be something could do when ever they wanted??

 

Alts is a guaranteed income really.. I have a number of alts.. I have bought a number of outfits on the CM for them.. I have also bought mounts.. The more characters a person has, the more chances Bioware has at making money..

 

Doing something that would limit the number of alts a person would need would actually cost them money..

 

Money aside however.. I doubt bioware is going to make a change that it knows most people do not want.. Just saying..

[MajikMyst]

It was an interview with Damion Schubert that happened about 9 months ago.

 

pulled from Dulfy website.

 

However, Stephen Reid had also said this in an earlier interview:

 

Bolded the important part that some people would like to ignore.

 

Then again I stand corrected.. I have never seen them use the word likely until now.. Ok.. Lord.. You have my apologies then..

 

And thanks for the quote Soluss..

[MajikMyst]

Well, not in this thread. Perhaps things are changing, but in this thread it has been pretty much even across the board.

 

It is about the same ratio as those supporting and opposed to sprint at level 1.

 

Also, DE was the loudest and most consistent voice against AC change....the only issue on which he and I ever agreed. He is, of course, gone from the game now.

 

He was also dead set against allowing cross class gear appearance, orange moddable gear, sprint at level 1, connected shuttle paths, quick travel, convenience in the game, a market, free to play, appearance and race change after creation and mail to opposing faction characters.

 

The latest comment from anyone on the Dev staff is much more pro change than in the past.

 

This is one of the things that I worry about. I am VERY HAPPY that DE and devs like him are gone from the game (the game would have been better off if he had never been part of the staff IMO) but that of course means that AC change is open game now like all the other restrictions in place that almost buried the game.

 

I don't think a lack of AC is one of the restrictions that hurt the game originally though....but naturally it's on the table like all the others.

 

And you wonder why I say you are pro-AC..

 

This thread is not pro-AC.. More people are against by a landslide...

[ShadessaWayland]

I'm not aware of ANY game that sells class changes in the cash shop, as you claim. I'm not saying that there are none, just that I'm not aware of any. Could you please list at least a few, since you claim "very normal by alot of mmorpg they sell item ad cash shop and you can change your class"?

 

so far the only mmorpg i play and have that option is RF online

only by a event you can buy a reclass pill and then reclass you character

 

buttttttttttttttt only you can reclass your class with the option you pick first

 

lets say you pick ad begin a ranger you can ad lvl 30 advance to 1 trapper ore 2 gunner

 

ad lvl 40 1 shadow ore 2 striker

 

the only option you have is between those 2 advance classes you cant say i pick mage ore warrior no you cant do that

 

you wil stay and the ranger section

 

its poseble to that that here to

 

i play atm jedi shadow but i think why not reclass to jedi saga its poseble ??

 

but you stick to the jedi con class

 

sorry for my bad english

[LordArtemis]

Getting back to the business at hand.....

 

I think that it is pretty clear this is a divisive issue. I think that if this was ever implemented the uproar would be palpable. Even if it were to be a profitable item for Bioware, I think they could implement many other things that would not be as controversial as this would likely be IMO.

 

I just can't see how implementing an AC change feature would bode well for Bioware...but that is just my slant naturally. They would better answer that than I could.

[TUXs]

It's not a divisive issue, it's people wanting to control others. Who cares what anyone else plays?! What class "I" play, only matters to ME. If I want to change to fill out a group or to meet the needs of whatever team I'm playing on, who are any of you to say "no"? That only hurts the game.

 

There's NO valid reason that this shouldn't be allowed. NONE! It's all selfish and stupid reasoning. This is an MMO, classes and balance are always shifting...let the players shift too.

[LordArtemis]

It's not a divisive issue, it's people wanting to control others. Who cares what anyone else plays?! What class "I" play, only matters to ME. If I want to change to fill out a group or to meet the needs of whatever team I'm playing on, who are any of you to say "no"? That only hurts the game.

 

There's NO valid reason that this shouldn't be allowed. NONE! It's all selfish and stupid reasoning. This is an MMO, classes and balance are always shifting...let the players shift too.

 

Oh boy.

 

If it was folks wanting to control others that would make it divisive. It seems that some folks do care.

 

Oh, and let me perfectly clear about this, so there is no confusion...you do not determine my opinion. If I don't like AC change, you have no control over that. Who am I to say no? An individual that doesn't care for AC change, and who are you to tell me I'm wrong for it?

 

I'm not telling others they can't have AC change...I made it pretty clear I would begrudgingly accept it if that is what the majority want. But no one, and I mean NO ONE can force me to like it.

 

Selfish and stupid reasoning? Really. Because I don't like something and express the reason why the reason has to automatically be stupid and selfish.....hmm....what does that sound like to you? Giving and intelligent?

 

Here's a hint for you. You do not determine what reason is valid or not valid for others...that is up to each individual and their concerns. Not you. You define your OWN reasons.

 

You might want to stick to that.

Edited July 29, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Andryah]

It's not a divisive issue, it's people wanting to control others. Who cares what anyone else plays?! What class "I" play, only matters to ME. If I want to change to fill out a group or to meet the needs of whatever team I'm playing on, who are any of you to say "no"? That only hurts the game.

 

There's NO valid reason that this shouldn't be allowed. NONE! It's all selfish and stupid reasoning. This is an MMO, classes and balance are always shifting...let the players shift too.

 

Generally speaking, anything added to an MMO that makes player commitment and proficiency even more transient is not good for the MMO community as a whole.

 

The ability to change advanced class is not something offered casually by any MMO, not even EVE... and for good reason. It injects chaos, uncertainty, and disorder into the MMO. It absolutely does not matter for the player who only plays a game solo.. but then again..why are they playing and MMO again?

 

Unless you plan to spend your life solo in this game, AC changes do impact other players. How? Because in group play, playing your AC proficiently is expected and is something that takes time to perfect... and progression leveling helps the player do this. Sure..you can level and never learn your class, but that's uncommon and you know it.. so let's not play that card. People however being able to switch ACs will mostly inject players into group play that are sub-par on the class for some period of time. Other group players have no idea if they are proficient or some nub that changed AC two hours ago.

 

Changing AC is nice for the individual, but it's also disruptive to others in the community. Can the disruption be managed within groups who know each other? Absolutely. But let's not pretend that groups consist of only people who know each other.

[TUXs]

Generally speaking, anything added to an MMO that makes player commitment and proficiency even more transient is not good for the MMO community as a whole.

 

The ability to change advanced class is not something offered casually by any MMO, not even EVE... and for good reason. It injects chaos, uncertainty, and disorder into the MMO. It absolutely does not matter for the player who only plays a game solo.. but then again..why are they playing and MMO again?

 

Unless you plan to spend your life solo in this game, AC changes do impact other players. How? Because in group play, playing your AC proficiently is expected and is something that takes time to perfect... and progression leveling helps the player do this. Sure..you can level and never learn your class, but that's uncommon and you know it.. so let's not play that card. People however being able to switch ACs will mostly inject players into group play that are sub-par on the class for some period of time. Other group players have no idea if they are proficient or some nub that changed AC two hours ago.

 

Changing AC is nice for the individual, but it's also disruptive to others in the community. Can the disruption be managed within groups who know each other? Absolutely. But let's not pretend that groups consist of only people who know each other.

 

So your only reasoning is that...it might impact group play because someone might not know their new AC?! Silly. Most of the skills are cross class. If someone doesn't know their new AC, they'll learn in time...it's no different than the Commando switching to his Guardian to tank right now, or no different than that "disruptive" returning player who is learning everything again.

 

Baseless and silly reasoning imo.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TUXs

[Andryah]

So your only reasoning is that...it might impact group play because someone might not know their new AC?! Silly. Most of the skills are cross class. If someone doesn't know their new AC, they'll learn in time...it's no different than the Commando switching to his Guardian to tank right now, or no different than that "disruptive" returning player who is learning everything again.

 

Baseless and silly reasoning imo.

 

There is no might about it. If a level 55 AC just respected to the other AC.. they will indeed not play that AC as well until they become practiced and fluent in the AC. It's worse for some AC-2-AC then others....but the fact is.. they are all different enough that you will need some quality time to really play the AC to proficiency. So..yeah...that would impact your fellow group members...since they would have to "carry you" until you are proficient.

 

Many ACs play VERY differently from their counterparts, so if you want to discuss basesless and silly.... you pretending that they don't is pretty baseless and silly IMO.

 

You took the absolute position that there are no valid reasons. I presented a valid reason and my basis for that reason.

 

You are free to be dismissive of my comments, but then you are being hypocritical in that you lecture others for the same behavior. I get it. It's your way..or the highway....other peoples assessment and views don't matter to you in the slightest and are to be dismissed out of hand regardless.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

Wish people cared about ability delay as much as this stupid topic. Over 2000 posts... So stupid. Post about something that actually matters.

If we wanted to post about things which actually matter, we would be posting in the Off-topic forum.

 

This topic doesn't matter at all and will not effect the community in the slightest.

It's just a game. No part of it matters any more than any other part.

[TUXs]

You took the absolute position that there are no valid reasons. I presented a valid reason and my basis for that reason.

 

That's an excuse, not a reason...and a hypothetical excuse too. How is this any different than a player just returning to the game? Should we wipe all characters after 2-months to make sure those returning players aren't "disruptive" too? EVERY player needs to learn their class...in time, they do.

[Andryah]

That's an excuse, not a reason...and a hypothetical excuse too. How is this any different than a player just returning to the game?

 

It's not hypothetical at all. It's real.. and you even sighted a corollary reason (actually two if we count your other one in the previous post) to validate the concern I expressed.

 

A player just returning to the game does indeed create the same affect. Thank you for the validation.

 

But there is also a difference. The returning player was proficient at one point in the class, and while there would be some talent and skill changes for them to overcome... the path to proficiency is much shorter for them. By analogy.....does a person who has not used a bicycle for 5 years need to relearn how to ride? No. Most are proficient within minutes again and just need a little time to learn the new gears on the bike.

 

A new AC is quite a bit different then a veteran returning and reusing an AC they were already proficient at. And injecting lots of brand new ACs into the community on a server is roughly equal to injecting insta-55s into the community. It's bad for the community.. but it is indeed good to some degree for the individuals needs for self.

 

Should we wipe all characters after 2-months to make sure those returning players aren't "disruptive" too? EVERY player needs to learn their class...in time, they do.

 

Stop being petulant. It's OK if we have different views on the topic. As adults we should be able to discuss them without you resorting hyperbole.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Andryah