Ancient Hypergate

[AngusFTW]

I like AHG more then most but its a really easy wz for your pugs to mess up either by not calling while getting sapped, ramboing the other node, feeding other team kills etc.

[Vaerah]

Ancient Hypergate, as much as I enjoy it, makes no sense to anyone. You can count the number of people who understand how the scoring works on any given server on one hand, it seems like. It's especially weird for people because unlike every other warzone, throwing your bodies at the objective will make you lose. Sure, throwing your bodies at a door in Voidstar might be futile, but it's not giving the other team points, you know?

 

What's difficult in the scoring? It's actually good that one WZ does not reward a blind zerg vs zerg.

[Ajuntalee]

thats all AH is one big zerg fest for smash monkies, and engineering snipers/slingers, they should remove the objectives from AH because everyone treats it as one big TDM map

 

And so should you because that is what it is

 

Ancient hyper gate is a symetric TeamDeathMatch with respawn wave

coupled

with a team resource managment / ninja gimmick

 

King of the hill archetype if you want.

 

It is working fine , and yes it has a difficult metagmae to read for beginners

 

Alderande is a failrly symetric and rather small ressource gathering map

coupled with

A strong bias towards toward defensive game play

toned down team resource managment / ninja gimmick

(read : it is very easy to defend most nodes even with very little mobility and foreplanning )

 

RTS style map if you want

 

this map shoudl be made bigegr and the bias towards defense mitigated to make it stand out a little more from other maps.

 

Novare is a tiny doubleway Tug Of War map

coupled with

A mitigating reinforcements bias mechanism

toned down team resource managment / ninja gimmick

censored out sudden death mode ( usually in a TOW when one side pushed the other to the step of its spawn the game ends immediatly)

 

TOW style really

 

this map is fine, it resembles alderande too much but if alderande becomes bigger and a bit less defensively biased they will feel much more diffrent.

 

Voidstar is a sequential oneway Tug Of War map

couple with

A strongly mitigating respawn bias mechanism

toned down team resource managment / ninja gimmick

( so the fights are bloodiers and mobility is much less important)

 

This maps need a big overhaul, to have it mechanism not so reliant on itemization changes, it worked( works ) very well at level 50, (for baby WZ) but the current Tank/healing scores make it a bit stalemeated and rarely do we ever see the second room at all in 55s.

 

Huttball

is a American footbal/ rugby rip-off

 

it is a fine map, that could benefit from a couple of alternate arenas.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[islander]

thats all AH is one big zerg fest for smash monkies, and engineering snipers/slingers, they should remove the objectives from AH because everyone treats it as one big TDM map

 

Only bads do. You can be great with your character, but stupid at this warzone. This warzone is about getting those orbs after you control mid, and being ultra responsive to inc call outs because it's easier to cap opponent nodes in this warzone then any other.

 

but considering about 75% of warzone participants are bads in one way or another (either poor at their character, or good at their character but poor at objective based PvP), it's not surprising there are threads like this.

Edited May 28, 2013 by islander

[cycao]

Hypergate is somewhat like huttball, you will lose if you cannot control mid. So trickling in or having that one idiot constantly trying to ninja the off node will almost guarantee a loss...oh and having someone defend who has no clue now to. I cannot tell you how many of these nodes I have taken from someone either standing right on the pylon allowing the sap cap or just flat out not paying attention.

[Ridickilis]

It's an extremely difficult map to pug. As someone said in another one of these 'AH sucks' threads, there are far too many layers of derp to make this even remotely enjoyable.

[Lionflash]

thats all AH is one big zerg fest for smash monkies, and engineering snipers/slingers, they should remove the objectives from AH because everyone treats it as one big TDM map

And so should you because that is what it is

 

Ancient hyper gate is a symetric TeamDeathMatch with respawn wave

coupled

with a team resource managment / ninja gimmick

*snip*

 

Just gotta chime in here to give a nod to what he said ^

 

If you ask a large portion of the PVP community they will say they want... scratch that...--demand, a death match arena type Warzone. Personally, I'm all about the objective based PVP.

 

I recall an interview awhile ago where the Dev was asked if they had any plans to add a 'Deathmatch' style Warzone. HIs answer was something along the lines of ... (and this was before AH's release) "Ancient Hypergate is actually very close to a deathmatch style WZ, because it has an emphasis on earning kills and blaw blaw blaw Bob Loblaw..."

 

So if you are wondering why it feels like a zergfest...well that because that's all Deathmatch is... that's why I prefer the objective based PVP (but I don't mind AH, I actually enjoy it) ... (...that is, unless my team is bad )

[YanksfanJP]

Just gotta chime in here to give a nod to what he said ^

 

If you ask a large portion of the PVP community they will say they want... scratch that...--demand, a death match arena type Warzone. Personally, I'm all about the objective based PVP.

 

I recall an interview awhile ago where the Dev was asked if they had any plans to add a 'Deathmatch' style Warzone. HIs answer was something along the lines of ... (and this was before AH's release) "Ancient Hypergate is actually very close to a deathmatch style WZ, because it has an emphasis on earning kills and blaw blaw blaw Bob Loblaw..."

 

So if you are wondering why it feels like a zergfest...well that because that's all Deathmatch is... that's why I prefer the objective based PVP (but I don't mind AH, I actually enjoy it) ... (...that is, unless my team is bad )

 

I don't mind the concept of AH. The retarded part is the layout. They made the objectives so far away from the deathmatch that nobody wants to play the objectives (i.e. sit around and do nothing the entire game). It happens in every map where the main fight is far away from objectives. Novare Coast and Alderaan - nobody wants to spend the whole match defending the side nodes. Often times, nobody even goes there to cap them and then the rage in chat starts.

 

While the maps are designed fine for a coordinated 8-man premade group in rated play, for pugs the layouts are completely terrible.

[Jaiyne]

I hate this map on every level. But I will admit to getting large amounts of amusement from watching lowbies (you know, level 10-29 lowbies) play this for the first time. You can't even get mad at the level of derp. You have to laugh.

[Astarica]

There's really only two 'strategic' element in AH:

 

1. You should all defend on the round where holding your pylon guaranteeds victory (you have >600 points and a lead of greater than about 100 points so that even 8 orbs can't catch up, and that the enemy cannot get to 600 points immediately with orbs).

 

2. If you're at middle and you could capture an orb, you should do so, and then find somewhere to deposit it.

 

Note that this works even if you have no pylons as 4 guys with orbs makes a perfectly good strike team when they need to find somewhere to deposit 4 orbs.

 

Due to the fact the map is entirely symmetrical and gives no advantage to the defenders, it's very free flowing. If you see 6 guys overruning 'your' pylon, simply have the orb carriers attack 'their' pylon because they can only have 2 guys there. There's no need to even respond to an inc because both positions are exactly equal, though you can certainly respond to the inc too. It's a map that greatly rewards individual brilliance, as there's no reason to know what the big picture is beacuse if you're winning on your section of the map, that's generally sufficient as no particular position is any better than any other.

 

The most common failures of the PUG is that you've won the middle but people just stand there and celebrate, instead of at least depositing the orbs. When you've 1 orb that guy generally becomes an extra defender, and if you've orbs in large numbers (4) you can either play safe (all defend) or even go on attack (4 guys is enough to assault).

Edited May 28, 2013 by Astarica

[islander]

The most common failures of the PUG is that you've won the middle but people just stand there and celebrate, instead of at least depositing the orbs. When you've 1 orb that guy generally becomes an extra defender, and if you've orbs in large numbers (4) you can either play safe (all defend) or even go on attack (4 guys is enough to assault).

 

This is the part most people don't get. They are too busy going forward into the spawn side of the other team waiting in anticipation to TDM some more - instead of actually securing an easier victory.

[Ajuntalee]

I don't mind the concept of AH. The retarded part is the layout. They made the objectives so far away from the deathmatch that nobody wants to play the objectives

 

yes because you are mistaken on the 'objective',

 

AH is a TeamDeathMatch the objective is to have your team's core, bully the ennemy's team's core in the center of the map,

 

what you call objective is the TRM/ninja gimmick , that has been added to a TeamDeathMatch to increase a bit the otherwise inexistant Metagaming.

 

The pylons are the 'gimmick number 1'and only here to force the teams into investing ressources ( 1 ninja alone, a couple of duellists or even a part of their core ) into cutting the grass under the enemy's feet, by stealing them the pylon they had chosen if the winning team refuses to sacrifice ressources to its defense and prefered keeping a strong grip on the center.

 

The orbs are "gimmick 2" and there to force the losing team to try to get back at the winning team and throw them downhill, by allowing the winning team ( that one that owns the center) to score points even if the losing team refuses to engage in the fight for the center.

 

At the same time, hauling the orbs are "gimmick 3" and costs some team ressources as well, forcing the winning team ( the one that own the center) into chosing between maintining its grip on the center or investing team ressources into hauling and weakening its grip on the center, increasings the odds of a comeback from the losing team.

 

Last mechanism of AH is the killing respawn wave and increasing wager.

 

Every 2 minutes the game is reset that is "gimmick number 4" and everyone who is not fighting for the center is given a fresh start without awarding point to the opponents, it is a generally misunderstood mechanism where the losing team throws their bodies in the center with the risk of being killed for points, while they could just die in the energy wave giving no points to the winning team.

 

Each phase awards more and more points, once again, enhancing the chances of a come back and keeping the WZ on the run, instead of having people give up cause a comeback is out of reach no matter what.

 

You guys don't like hypergate because you think it is a WZ where the objectives are the pylons and that every one focuces on zerging the center instead, and get *** rewarded for not playing the pylons.

 

In fact the objective is to WTFpawn the other team in the center, while still keeping an eye on a pylon. I don't blame you I focused on the pylons too when I was a newb.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[YanksfanJP]

yes because you are mistaken on the 'objective',

 

AH is a TeamDeathMatch the objective is to have your team's core, bully the ennemy's team's core in the center of the map,

 

what you call objective is the TRM/ninja gimmick , that has been added to a TeamDeathMatch to increase a bit the otherwise inexistant Metagaming.

 

The pylons are the 'gimmick number 1'and only here to force the teams into investing ressources ( 1 ninja alone, a couple of duellists or even a part of their core ) into cutting the grass under the enemy's feet, by stealing them the pylon they had chosen if the winning team refuses to sacrifice ressources to its defense and prefered keeping a strong grip on the center.

 

The orbs are "gimmick 2" and there to force the losing team to try to get back at the winning team and throw them downhill, by allowing the winning team ( that one that owns the center) to score points even if the losing team refuses to engage in the fight for the center.

 

At the same time, hauling the orbs are "gimmick 3" and costs some team ressources as well, forcing the winning team ( the one that own the center) into chosing between maintining its grip on the center or investing team ressources into hauling and weakening its grip on the center, increasings the odds of a comeback from the losing team.

 

Last mechanism of AH is the killing respawn wave and increasing wager.

 

Every 2 minutes the game is reset that is "gimmick number 4" and everyone who is not fighting for the center is given a fresh start without awarding point to the opponents, it is a generally misunderstood mechanism where the losing team throws their bodies in the center with the risk of being killed for points, while they could just die in the energy wave giving no points to the winning team.

 

Each phase awards more and more points, once again, enhancing the chances of a come back and keeping the WZ on the run, instead of having people give up cause a comeback is out of reach no matter what.

 

You guys don't like hypergate because you think it is a WZ where the objectives are the pylons and that every one focuces on zerging the center instead, and get *** rewarded for not playing the pylons.

 

In fact the objective is to WTFpawn the other team in the center, while still keeping an eye on a pylon. I don't blame you I focused on the pylons too when I was a newb.

 

You completely missed the point. My point is that the random dipwits in warzones don't want to be the one to babysit the pylon because it's no fun to sit there and do nothing so far away from the action. Because of that, you either have nobody at the pylon (a guaranteed loss) or maybe one of the actually good players goes and babysits it (taking a good player out of the middle, meaning your randoim dipwits will lose mid and you lose that way too).

 

it's just poorly designed and poorly laid out.

[LaVall]

If orbs were worth far more than kills (2x is not worth it to spend all the time running to your node then running back to mid), and mid was larger with more cover (too difficult for the squishier classes to avoid getting melted down in seconds, too easy for smash monkies to hit multiple targets), it might not be a bad warzone. It's concept wasn't horrible, but it's design was. It also requires class composition moreso than any other warzone, which happens how often with a random group finder?

 

I cringe every time I get it.

[Astarica]

You completely missed the point. My point is that the random dipwits in warzones don't want to be the one to babysit the pylon because it's no fun to sit there and do nothing so far away from the action. Because of that, you either have nobody at the pylon (a guaranteed loss) or maybe one of the actually good players goes and babysits it (taking a good player out of the middle, meaning your randoim dipwits will lose mid and you lose that way too).

 

it's just poorly designed and poorly laid out.

 

Whenever I hear stuff like that I always wonder why the guy doing the complaining isn't babysitting the pylon if it's really that important.

[Astarica]

If orbs were worth far more than kills (2x is not worth it to spend all the time running to your node then running back to mid), and mid was larger with more cover (too difficult for the squishier classes to avoid getting melted down in seconds, too easy for smash monkies to hit multiple targets), it might not be a bad warzone. It's concept wasn't horrible, but it's design was. It also requires class composition moreso than any other warzone, which happens how often with a random group finder?

 

I cringe every time I get it.

 

The whole point of the orbs is that you're supposed to fall back whenever you've at least 2 orbs because you'd be down 2 man in mid which, in the worst case, means the enemy simply overpowers you in mid and get the other 2 orbs you didn't have. Not that this ever works in a PUG, but that's how it's supposed to work.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Astarica

[Kovaos]

Has anyone else been stuck guarding a pylon in AH and finished with 0 dmg and 0 kills 0 healing 0...everything? We won the match and all my medals were objective/defender. I believe I got 3 or 4 MVPs.

[Astarica]

Has anyone else been stuck guarding a pylon in AH and finished with 0 dmg and 0 kills 0 healing 0...everything? We won the match and all my medals were objective/defender. I believe I got 3 or 4 MVPs.

 

You'd have to go back to the middle when the pylon explodes and usually there's going to be some fighting in there, unless you just died with the pylon each time it blew up. It's more possible to try this in Alderaan, though invariably someone attacks your node for no reason to ruin your bid for the 0/0/0 leaderboard score. The closest I've got to that is about 20K damage done (one guy attacked my node once in the entire agme).

Edited May 28, 2013 by Astarica

[YanksfanJP]

Whenever I hear stuff like that I always wonder why the guy doing the complaining isn't babysitting the pylon if it's really that important.

 

That's the point. Very few people in pug groups, if any at all, want to do the ***** work. They want to have fun. AFKing for 2 minutes then back to mid and then back to the pylon to afk for another 2 minutes isn't fun. People PvP because they want to fight other players, not do the garbage work.

[Astarica]

That's the point. Very few people in pug groups, if any at all, want to do the ***** work. They want to have fun. AFKing for 2 minutes then back to mid and then back to the pylon to afk for another 2 minutes isn't fun. People PvP because they want to fight other players, not do the garbage work.

 

So why should someone do the garbage work for you? If you're actually good, shouldn't you lead by example? Why would you want the bad players you complain about to guard a pylon when losing it generally results in guaranteed defeat? Of course I know you're going to say you're also needed in middle or your team will lose, and that makes total sense because while you can't trust those bad players to win the game fighitng at middle, you totally trust them to solo guard (or not guard at all) the pylon where losing it means nearly certain defeat. Most of the time, you're not actually needed in middle, and if you are, you'd understand that there's no choice here and wouldn't be complaining about the issue.

[Kovaos]

You'd have to go back to the middle when the pylon explodes and usually there's going to be some fighting in there, unless you just died with the pylon each time it blew up. It's more possible to try this in Alderaan, though invariably someone attacks your node for no reason to ruin your bid for the 0/0/0 leaderboard score. The closest I've got to that is about 20K damage done (one guy attacked my node once in the entire agme).

 

Nope. I ran under our respawn and waited for the explosion. Grabbed the speed boost and capped. I'm telling ya I had 0 everything except defender and objective points. It was pretty cool .

[Ajuntalee]

You completely missed the point. My point is that the random dipwits in warzones don't want to be the one to babysit the pylon because it's no fun to sit there and do nothing so far away from the action. Because of that, you either have nobody at the pylon (a guaranteed loss) or maybe one of the actually good players goes and babysits it (taking a good player out of the middle, meaning your randoim dipwits will lose mid and you lose that way too).

 

it's just poorly designed and poorly laid out.

 

I am sorry to inform you that no map can ever be designed to enhance the dipwits' performance without further enhancing the performance of halfwits, and crazily bolstering the performance of players fully witted.

 

You want the dipwit at the pylon where he is going to be ninjaed / overpowered in a duel (bad move), and you don't want him in the center to feed points to the enemy team (sounds reasonable). Also aparently you don't like to sit idled at the pylon yourself.

 

Lets just skip ahead, dipwits are detrimental to chances of performing well, don't play with them, group in a premade with people who are at the least halfwits and leave the Hypergate map alone, it works reasonably well, also that is totally your right to not like it.