Are there any plans in the long term to upgrade or optimise the SWTOR Engine?

[DamionSchubert]

I have been wondering if BW do have plans to update or optimize the engine in future updates and has there ever been a response on the forums indicating yes or no?

 

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

During my search I have been reading that the Hero Engine has since received major updates improving it's quality etc but I have also read that these changes are not applicable to SW:TOR due to the modifications made during development.

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

[bionamaster]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

Thanks for the info, Damion. Edited May 22, 2013 by bionamaster

[Iggster]

Thanks for the info, Eric.

 

That wasn't Eric

Edited May 22, 2013 by Iggster

[Arkerus]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

Nice to see what so many of us have been trying to explain is true.

 

So for you folks out there who keep saying "ditch the engine or upgrade to the new one"' its not happening. End of story. Please move on. This is what we have and this what they are working on.

[theUndead]

Thanks for the info, Eric.

 

Lol that's not Eric that's their lead programmer Damien Shubert lol.

[bionamaster]

That wasn't Eric

 

My mistake, I'll go fix that. Sorry Damion, used to seeing Eric respond to these threads

[OKandrew]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

 

Sounds like a nice way for saying a fix for people who are still having issues in the fleet and in WZs is never coming. Well, thanks for responding atleast BW. I have never ever once considered Unsubbing since Day 1... until now.. Sigh.

[OKandrew]

Nice to see what so many of us have been trying to explain is true.

 

So for you folks out there who keep saying "ditch the engine or upgrade to the new one"' its not happening. End of story. Please move on. This is what we have and this what they are working on.

 

So... you want 25% or more of people to quit the game because a fix is not coming? Ok...

 

That sounds perfectly reasonable for people not to expect excellence from something we are paying for.

Edited May 22, 2013 by OKandrew

[tman_ac]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

Sorry to say Damion, but it feels like your team can't catch up with all the features that are implemented:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=642397

[cashogy_reborn]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

what on earth kind of backwards logic is that?

 

i have a pc that runs bf3 on ultra at 90-100 FPS constant. in swtor warzones, i run typically 50-70 FPS, and it will occasionally drop to the 40-50 range for no apparent reason.

 

this is *the* worst optimized game i have ever played. and that includes SWG. every "optimization" that has been made has reduced overall performance. at launch, i had forced 12x AA and was getting a constant 90fps at all times. with each subsequent update that performance declined, and things like rubberbanding have been introduced.

 

and its not even that running on "very high" yields poor relative frame rates. when i run "very low" in a warzone it increases FPS by ~15%. thats with no AA, no bloom, no shadows, no nothing. this game is absolutely terrible at utilizing available hardware.

 

 

for you to insist that a high end machine will not see the benefits of optimizations is absurd. tbh, getting tired of the dev speak non-answers that the general attitude of the devs here that they are the smartest folks in the room

Edited May 22, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[ChickenWangs]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

You know what would be the greatest 8 week update ever? 2.2 Lag, FPS drops, and Activation time fixes. Just spend 8 weeks totally focused on optimizing the game and have the art department do something like make more cartel armor (not just reskins). I would be willing to bet that an update like that would bring droves of players back. I run on a top end system and have noticed FPS increases of about 2-3 over my course of playing TOR. Even on the lowest settings, the fleet still has about 30 fps. The day that my games sits comfortably at 60 will be a good one.

[spectreclees]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

Should have just passed this along to Eric. You will get flamed so hard for this because it isn't true at all. There haven't really been any improvements on the engine since release and if it is behind the scenes, it is on something that nobody cares about. Like making sure an animation is working properly.

[Tharka]

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

 

Thank you Damion

 

It's nice to know that the work is on going. Not that I ever doubted you guys weren't working on it lol It gives me some confidence that the game is progressing in quality as well as quantity (by this I mean content). In my opinion quality should be first.

 

If I was to ask one more question it would be: What problems are the Dev's encountering in optimising for lower end systems? For example is the engine just not designed to run on older PC's or those with limitations like Laptops etc or is that part of the improvements that are on going?

 

And one last cheeky question: As someone has already mentioned, would an 8 week patch window ever be dedicated to just engine improvements and no content? And for the community, would you accept that in order to improve fps and loading times?

 

Thank you for the responses so far BW. It is very much appreciated and does give me a sense of satisfaction that SW:TOR will regain it's crown.

[Jandi]

Should have just passed this along to Eric. You will get flamed so hard for this because it isn't true at all. There haven't really been any improvements on the engine since release and if it is behind the scenes, it is on something that nobody cares about. Like making sure an animation is working properly.

 

This is nonsense. They fixed the insidious memory leak awhile back. Not every runs with 16gigs or ram you know and those that don't got a massive headache finally fixed.

[spectreclees]

This is nonsense. They fixed the insidious memory leak awhile back. Not every runs with 16gigs or ram you know and those that don't got a massive headache finally fixed.

 

Yes, forgive me the did fix that at least. But no real fixes to the engine itself. I don't understand what you are trying to say in the last part. Not everyone has 16 gigs of ram? Yes, that is true I don't I have 8. I don't get what that second part is aimed at though.

[chuixupu]

I have noticed considerable improvements to the game since it launched. Occasionally some new patches have brought in some issues of their own, but overall it's been getting better, smoother, looking nicer, even if in small steps. They still have a lot to work on, though.

[Jandi]

Yes, forgive me the did fix that at least. But no real fixes to the engine itself. I don't understand what you are trying to say in the last part. Not everyone has 16 gigs of ram? Yes, that is true I don't I have 8. I don't get what that second part is aimed at though.

 

Because you said "only things no one cares about" and everyone with lower than 16gigs cared about the memory leak. Well, those that had longer than 3h sessions at least.

 

The engine is really, really bad though, especially on Makeb where they made huge open spaces with a lot of detailed scenery. Gravity Hook 7 grinds to a halt at times if you have every maxed, for example. Then there is the problems with positional attacks that have been there since launch where trying to backstab just doesn't work at times and you have to try from multiple angles.

 

However, saying they've done no improvements is as wrong as saying the engine is perfect.

[spectreclees]

Because you said "only things no one cares about" and everyone with lower than 16gigs cared about the memory leak. Well, those that had longer than 3h sessions at least.

 

The engine is really, really bad though, especially on Makeb where they made huge open spaces with a lot of detailed scenery. Gravity Hook 7 grinds to a halt at times if you have every maxed, for example. Then there is the problems with positional attacks that have been there since launch where trying to backstab just doesn't work at times and you have to try from multiple angles.

 

However, saying they've done no improvements is as wrong as saying the engine is perfect.

Fair enough then. Though I was on 8 gigs of ram like I said and never noticed the memory leak anyone mentioned. That is why I didn't consider it a fix to anything. Everything else you stated I agree on. Carry on.

[Jandi]

Fair enough then. Though I was on 8 gigs of ram like I said and never noticed the memory leak anyone mentioned. That is why I didn't consider it a fix to anything. Everything else you stated I agree on. Carry on.

 

Didn't mean to come off as hostile, my apologies.

[spectreclees]

Didn't mean to come off as hostile, my apologies.

 

You didn't. I came off that way. All good.

[limenutpen]

I do not agree with the comments posted here. Since launch the engine has improved a lot so I stand with Damion declaration. I remember being in fleet with 40 plus people and lagging about a year ago, now I stand in the fleet with 200 and I have very little spikes.

Is this enough? Surely no. Game has a long way to go, and the solving of this problem will increase or decrease its success.

 

Now where did it go worse...

I would say WZ and especially Ranked ones. I do not suffer lag in most normal ones, never actually did but when I do mostly in some RWZ the lagging is sometimes annoying. Its like actually playing a different game. You also get this, when some top teams roll some Premades. Huttball seems to be the worst of this, but it does happen in the others as well....

Is this because of Macros.... anyways some inspection about this and better clarification should help the matter. IMO the terms of use sort of say that you are not allowed this, but all high end Hard Ware from Razer and similar companies give you programs to do this. Terms of Use and some past interviews hint that is not allowed, but I do understand it is something very difficult to control from you guys.

QUOTE

- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.

UNQUOTE

Still this taken from your ToS is open to some variations IMO.

Edited May 23, 2013 by limenutpen

[Devlonir]

And one last cheeky question: As someone has already mentioned, would an 8 week patch window ever be dedicated to just engine improvements and no content? And for the community, would you accept that in order to improve fps and loading times?

 

Although I think it would be awesome if they did this, I doubt the community will accept it.

Simple fact: no fix to performance will work for everyone. Another important aspect to keep in mind is that, fixes to performance may cause crashing issues to people using hardware/software setups that have not been tested (because it is impossible to test everything).

So we will have an 8 week update that, without a doubt, does not solve all issues for everyone and even creates new issues for some that gets sold as a "performance and bug fixing" patch. How well do you think that will go down?

 

Personally, I'd rather they just sneak it in between content updates more often. I hope to see more than 4-5 lines of actual bug fixing and performance improvements in the patch notes of major updates.

[Asavrede]

It boggles the mind that a high profile game such as SWTOR is stuck with such a lousy engine for anything of scale. Even in 16-man operations, some mobs dont even render unless you click them, because the "engine optimizations" presumably prevent too many characters/mobs etc from being rendered at the same time.

 

DAOC - which is now 12 years old, has a better engine than SWTOR. Jeez.

[Devlonir]

It boggles the mind that a high profile game such as SWTOR is stuck with such a lousy engine for anything of scale. Even in 16-man operations, some mobs dont even render unless you click them, because the "engine optimizations" presumably prevent too many characters/mobs etc from being rendered at the same time.

 

DAOC - which is now 12 years old, has a better engine than SWTOR. Jeez.

 

I'm sure TOR would run smooth as well if it used DAOC's level of graphics and interaction.

 

So a moot point really, engines get better over the years and computers get better to handle engines as well.

 

My current PC runs Unreal Tournament a lot better than the one I had when it came out as well.

[Atlantida]

Guys, I'm sure they will release an "Optimized Engine", or "DX11 upgrade" Cartel Pack. So don't worry.