Star Wars: Rebels Has Begun Production

[TalonVII]

TIE fighters were introduced 19 BBY - that's the year the Galactic Empire was founded. Your right about the X-Wings though which is a bummer as that's major IP. However it could be retconned, that would be a minor retcon.

 

Then again, they're not much different from Z-95s...

 

You sure? I could of SWORE that at the end of EPIII and the book about vader right after EPIII they were still using V-wings and the Vigilance fighters. I mean the Victory Class SD and they were still using the republic crusiers you say in EPIII. I don't think the TIE had gone into production quite that fast.

 

I think the TIE was still in testing.

[Eillack]

Ah yes because Ventress is an entirely different character now and everything other than TCW has been rendered non-canon...

 

The only change that as been made to Ventress' story is that prior to the events of her upbringing on Rattatak is that she was born into a nightsister clan. That's it.

 

But perhaps you like to elaborate a little. As right now I could apply that statement to just about anyone and the meaning would be the same. I'm also just really confused and intruiged as how you support such a position.

 

And yeah, I'd like to see some plot holes filled too. One of the biggest plot holes for you must be why Ventress who used to be a womp rat from Tatooine is now a Nightsister from Rattatak...

 

Sure thing.

 

First of all, have you watched any of Clone Wars or read Obsession (Can't recall the names of the other comics which had her at the moment)?

 

Yes her birth originality was changed; along with how she was a random Jedi when he was young, and then was found and taught to be a Sith as a child / young age.

 

- Dooku is supposed to find her when she is the age she is depicted in TCW in a battle arena; she is self-taught and already labels herself as Sith. All Dooku does then is just fix her sloppiness in her fighting styles and gives her new sabers.

 

=> Anything that stemmed from the whole "oh she was traded as a baby from her original Nightsister parents" never happened.

 

Next there are the battles that never happened or were supposed to occur differently.

 

- After said training from Dooku she was sent to kill Anakin, although Dooku and Palpatine both knew she would most likely die and she is just a pawn to make Anakin fall to the darkside. The duel begins and Anakin wins as Ventress is cast into a dark abyss. Her body is recovered and is put in an extensive regenerative treatment merging the force and medical technologies. She is out of the picture for the most part after this and she is not seen until Boz Pity I believe.

 

=> That is were Obsession finishes it off after Anakin feels that she is alive somehow and eventually find her. They battle for the last time and kills her. Obi-wan gives Anakin a speech saying that this could have been him if Maul took him during the events in Ep 1, etc. Later Ventress's corpse along with other dead are on a medical shuttle, she is brought back to life due to the medical - force procedures making her almost immortal.

 

=> She hijacks the shuttle and vows to just leave the war and everything behind. She is gone, simple as that. There is no massive betrayal like on TCW and she is force to become some silly bounty hunter or ally with the Jedi. She simply comes to her senses and was tired of being used.

 

That is as simple as I can make it, but please anymore DB replies are welcomed. I don't know, you seem to be one of those people who deleted her entire wiki page after years of info were gathered, and replaced it with a paragraph. I never bothered to see if someone restored it or not, but that is apparently the way people roll.

 

---------

 

This is why I'm praying that Rebels focuses on the men and women who would otherwise be faceless in the background, focusing on the troops and the untold stories so that we don't have to suffer from the many mistakes TCW did.

[Beniboybling]

Sure thing.

 

First of all, have you watched any of Clone Wars or read Obsession (Can't recall the names of the other comics which had her at the moment)?

 

Yes her birth originality was changed; along with how she was a random Jedi when he was young, and then was found and taught to be a Sith as a child / young age.

 

- Dooku is supposed to find her when she is the age she is depicted in TCW in a battle arena; she is self-taught and already labels herself as Sith. All Dooku does then is just fix her sloppiness in her fighting styles and gives her new sabers.

 

=> Anything that stemmed from the whole "oh she was traded as a baby from her original Nightsister parents" never happened.

 

Next there are the battles that never happened or were supposed to occur differently.

 

- After said training from Dooku she was sent to kill Anakin, although Dooku and Palpatine both knew she would most likely die and she is just a pawn to make Anakin fall to the darkside. The duel begins and Anakin wins as Ventress is cast into a dark abyss. Her body is recovered and is put in an extensive regenerative treatment merging the force and medical technologies. She is out of the picture for the most part after this and she is not seen until Boz Pity I believe.

 

=> That is were Obsession finishes it off after Anakin feels that she is alive somehow and eventually find her. They battle for the last time and kills her. Obi-wan gives Anakin a speech saying that this could have been him if Maul took him during the events in Ep 1, etc. Later Ventress's corpse along with other dead are on a medical shuttle, she is brought back to life due to the medical - force procedures making her almost immortal.

 

=> She hijacks the shuttle and vows to just leave the war and everything behind. She is gone, simple as that. There is no massive betrayal like on TCW and she is force to become some silly bounty hunter or ally with the Jedi. She simply comes to her senses and was tired of being used.

 

That is as simple as I can make it, but please anymore DB replies are welcomed. I don't know, you seem to be one of those people who deleted her entire wiki page after years of info were gathered, and replaced it with a paragraph. I never bothered to see if someone restored it or not, but that is apparently the way people roll.

 

---------

 

This is why I'm praying that Rebels focuses on the men and women who would otherwise be faceless in the background, focusing on the troops and the untold stories so that we don't have to suffer from the many mistakes TCW did.

This doesn't exactly constitute a complete writing of her character, background and story in general does it?

 

Firstly everything you mentioned up until 'battles' is still canon. Dooku still finds her in the arena and trains her etc. And it is still canon that Ventress was a Jedi on Rattatak, and her master was killed by the local warlords etc. that has not been changed either. Heck they even took the liberty of translating those EU created events in animated flashbacks which I thought was a nice homage to the comics. In fact the retcon to her origins was not so much a change but an addition, they just fleshed out her life at a very young age of which previously there was no information about.

 

The only thing that has been retconned are the events of Obsession and that one battle in the original series. But if they were the sole foundations of what made Ventress a great character then she was never a great character to begin with. Her personality is the same, her abilities are the same and I commend the series for not deciding to kill her off and giving her some well deserved screen time.

 

Not sure what your talking about concerning her Wiki page but I would take this moment to advise you to go give it a read. Really it strikes me as strange that these are your only reasons for a complete damnation of what TCW has supposedly done to Ventress. You will find few supporters.

 

P.S. Your also making a leap in logic here i.e. that 'retcon' = bad. Not all retcons are bad and you haven't really given any reasons for why making Ventress a Nightsister is a bad thing... personally I think it makes her more interesting and mysterious, and complements her character.

[Wolfninjajedi]

TIE fighters were introduced 19 BBY - that's the year the Galactic Empire was founded. Your right about the X-Wings though which is a bummer as that's major IP. However it could be retconned, that would be a minor retcon.

 

Then again, they're not much different from Z-95s...

 

X-wings not much different then Z-95s?! Hogwash!

Edited May 28, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

You sure? I could of SWORE that at the end of EPIII and the book about vader right after EPIII they were still using V-wings and the Vigilance fighters. I mean the Victory Class SD and they were still using the republic crusiers you say in EPIII. I don't think the TIE had gone into production quite that fast.

 

I think the TIE was still in testing.

Well according to Wookieepedia the TIE/LN starfighter series was introduced in 19 BBY, and that's sourced from a book by Timothy Zhan called Mist Encounter. And there doesn't seem to be any counters to that claim so I'd assume that that's the case.

 

Nonetheless this doesn't mean the transition from V-Wings etc. to TIE fighters was instantaneous. It could have been a gradual process. I doubt that they came into galaxy-wide use until later. Still I minor retcon could mean that TIE fighters can crop up whichever particular time frame they choose to use.

[Jandi]

No. This has nothing to do with that pal and no such analogy can be made. And frankly its a testament to your incompetence that you even attempted to make such a connection. Don't try and throw me off with nonsensical statements, just admit that your argument has no basis and move on, or attempt to provide some. Thank you.

 

Since you are completely incapable of understanding what people say to you, I'll try my best to explain.

 

When you buy an IP you are legally allowed to do *anything* with it, including completely disregarding previous works and simply pick and choose what you like. That's the whole point of buying an IP instead of simply licensing it. Do you understand? Disney has no legal obligation to do or not do anything unless specifically specified in the terms of the sale.

 

Has either Lucas or someone at Disney revealed an agreement to not do something with the IP? I have not seen any official statements specifying that Disney is under a legal obligation to not do something with the IP, which is why I asked.

 

Therefor, if the sale was a TYPICAL IP sale Disney CAN rewrite the movies if they so choose, which was my entire point, unless specifically and officially stated otherwise by either party of the sale. Now, I have no doubt that Disney will do great things with the IP and that they will have the utmost respect for Lucas and the legacy he has created but even that does not mean they are legally bound to do so. Which, again, was my original point.

 

Now, unless you or someone can provide the terms of the deal then it stands to reason that a typical IP sale contract holds, which means Disney can, in fact, do what they want. Then we get to my last comment, which you fail to comprehend. I say "X is true based on the norm" and if you say "X can't be true because you can't disprove that Y, which there is no evidence at all of, isn't true" then you are, indeed, using the argument which I stated.

 

Do you understand?

[Jandi]

Well according to Wookieepedia the TIE/LN starfighter series was introduced in 19 BBY, and that's sourced from a book by Timothy Zhan called Mist Encounter. And there doesn't seem to be any counters to that claim so I'd assume that that's the case.

 

Nonetheless this doesn't mean the transition from V-Wings etc. to TIE fighters was instantaneous. It could have been a gradual process. I doubt that they came into galaxy-wide use until later. Still I minor retcon could mean that TIE fighters can crop up whichever particular time frame they choose to use.

 

In Battlefront 2 campaign the TIEs come into regular service a bit after the forming of the empire, along with the armor and weapons from the movies. I can't remember if it's stated when exactly but I know it was mentioned in the game.

[Beniboybling]

Since you are completely incapable of understanding what people say to you, I'll try my best to explain.

 

When you buy an IP you are legally allowed to do *anything* with it, including completely disregarding previous works and simply pick and choose what you like. That's the whole point of buying an IP instead of simply licensing it. Do you understand? Disney has no legal obligation to do or not do anything unless specifically specified in the terms of the sale.

 

Has either Lucas or someone at Disney revealed an agreement to not do something with the IP? I have not seen any official statements specifying that Disney is under a legal obligation to not do something with the IP, which is why I asked.

 

Therefor, if the sale was a TYPICAL IP sale Disney CAN rewrite the movies if they so choose, which was my entire point, unless specifically and officially stated otherwise by either party of the sale. Now, I have no doubt that Disney will do great things with the IP and that they will have the utmost respect for Lucas and the legacy he has created but even that does not mean they are legally bound to do so. Which, again, was my original point.

 

Now, unless you or someone can provide the terms of the deal then it stands to reason that a typical IP sale contract holds, which means Disney can, in fact, do what they want. Then we get to my last comment, which you fail to comprehend. I say "X is true based on the norm" and if you say "X can't be true because you can't disprove that Y, which there is no evidence at all of, isn't true" then you are, indeed, using the argument which I stated.

 

Do you understand?

Funnily enough, if you don't make your position clear, people will not understand you. Case in point: this is the first time you have made the following clear. Making nonsensical statements does not exactly improve your position.

 

But either way there is something called moral rights which would prevent Disney from unduly tampering with Lucas' work e.g. overriding any canon laid down by the movies. So its not as simple as 'Disney owns Star Wars are can do whatever the hell they want with it' because this is not the case, there are other clauses involved.

 

On that basis the fact remains that both stances, the first being that Disney has the ability to override movie canon, and the second stance, that Disney does not due to clauses introduced by Lucas, have no factual basis, only logical speculation. And neither side can claim that they do. In fact I'd say stance B is more likely, as moral rights are the norm regarding the intellectual property. However we cannot make any specific assumptions regarding the nature of any such clauses.

[Jandi]

Funnily enough, if you don't make your position clear, people will not understand you. Case in point: this is the first time you have made the following clear. Making nonsensical statements does not exactly improve your position.

 

But either way there is something called moral rights which would prevent Disney from unduly tampering with Lucas' work e.g. overriding any canon laid down by the movies. So its not as simple as 'Disney owns Star Wars are can do whatever the hell they want with it' because this is not the case, there are other clauses involved.

 

On that basis the fact remains that both stances, the first being that Disney has the ability to override movie canon, and the second stance, that Disney does not due to clauses introduced by Lucas, have no factual basis, only logical speculation. And neither side can claim that they do. In fact I'd say stance B is more likely, as moral rights are the norm regarding the intellectual property. However we cannot make any specific assumptions regarding the nature of any such clauses.

 

From the very wiki article you posted:

 

While the United States became a signatory to the convention in 1989,[6] it still does not completely recognize moral rights as part of copyright law, but rather as part of other bodies of law, such as defamation or unfair competition

 

 

I'm not going to start debating law because I'm not a lawyer though, just had to post that tidbit.

 

Regardless however, I have a bad habit of being unclear and rarely verbose so my apologies.

[Beniboybling]

From the very wiki article you posted:

 

While the United States became a signatory to the convention in 1989,[6] it still does not completely recognize moral rights as part of copyright law, but rather as part of other bodies of law, such as defamation or unfair competition

 

 

I'm not going to start debating law because I'm not a lawyer though, just had to post that tidbit.

 

Regardless however, I have a bad habit of being unclear and rarely verbose so my apologies.

We all do at some point or another.

 

And yes, I did note that part. However if George Lucas feels his creations are being infringed upon, he'll likely take Disney to court over it, which could get ugly.

 

So to avoid that kind of confrontation I highly doubt Disney would make any major changes to the movies, however it does bring into question whether general rules put in place by Lucas will remain. E.g. that Yoda's race, origins etc. should remain unrecorded. We shall see.

[Jandi]

They wouldn't do anything to upset the fan base regardless. As EP I and II showed us it's a.... terrible, terrible idea.

[Eillack]

This doesn't exactly constitute a complete writing of her character, background and story in general does it?

 

Firstly everything you mentioned up until 'battles' is still canon. Dooku still finds her in the arena and trains her etc. And it is still canon that Ventress was a Jedi on Rattatak, and her master was killed by the local warlords etc. that has not been changed either. Heck they even took the liberty of translating those EU created events in animated flashbacks which I thought was a nice homage to the comics. In fact the retcon to her origins was not so much a change but an addition, they just fleshed out her life at a very young age of which previously there was no information about.

 

Your "addition" WAS a change. Not sure where you come from but where I do change means taking one thing and turning it into something else.

 

The only thing that has been retconned are the events of Obsession and that one battle in the original series. But if they were the sole foundations of what made Ventress a great character then she was never a great character to begin with. Her personality is the same, her abilities are the same and I commend the series for not deciding to kill her off and giving her some well deserved screen time.

 

Funny..tossing away a bulk of info on her, let alone any character tends to not be a good; again if that I all sunshine and rainbows where you come from then cool beans. TCW just turned her into a boring "we need an

in-between' episode arcs" character.

 

Not sure what your talking about concerning her Wiki page but I would take this moment to advise you to go give it a read. Really it strikes me as strange that these are your only reasons for a complete damnation of what TCW has supposedly done to Ventress. You will find few supporters.

 

Then it was restored. When that episode aired, her page was reduced to one paragraph. I stated that I haven't bothered to check in some time, so thanks for reading.

 

P.S. Your also making a leap in logic here i.e. that 'retcon' = bad. Not all retcons are bad and you haven't really given any reasons for why making Ventress a Nightsister is a bad thing... personally I think it makes her more interesting and mysterious, and complements her character.

 

Once more changing who she is tends to be bad. How should I know the reasons behind the TCW team, but yeah keep trying to live in the "everything is perfect" world you live in haha.

 

Ah good to see you continued the DB replies as requested.

[Beniboybling]

Ah good to see you continued the DB replies as requested.

OK, its clear that there is no convincing you so I won't bother. I'd just like to point out that me not agreeing with your opinion is no grounds for personal insults and comes across as bigoted. Ah well, enjoy your quagmire of negativity. I'm off to have some rainbow cake and watch Witches of the Mist.

[Beniboybling]

They wouldn't do anything to upset the fan base regardless. As EP I and II showed us it's a.... terrible, terrible idea.

Lol, agreed.

[Eillack]

You sure? I could of SWORE that at the end of EPIII and the book about vader right after EPIII they were still using V-wings and the Vigilance fighters. I mean the Victory Class SD and they were still using the republic crusiers you say in EPIII. I don't think the TIE had gone into production quite that fast.

 

I think the TIE was still in testing.

 

No, you're right - V-wings were used as the primary fighter craft for some time until Tie Fighters were at a certain point in production that they would be the most beneficial as primary use. This is also why you see V-wings only in any Rise of the Empire - type era comic.

[Wolfninjajedi]

They wouldn't do anything to upset the fan base regardless. As EP I and II showed us it's a.... terrible, terrible idea.

 

Hey now, I enjoyed them movies and according to the box office and reviews those movies did rather well. But anyway...as long as there is some Rebel action and showing Stormtroopers as actually being elite, I think this new series will be good.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Hey now, I enjoyed them movies and according to the box office and reviews those movies did rather well. But anyway...as long as there is some Rebel action and showing Stormtroopers as actually being elite, I think this new series will be good.

I second that, especially the second motion. Although TBH Stormtroopers only suck against the heroes and Ewoks. And who can blame em? I mean, could you shoot this guy?

[Wolfninjajedi]

I second that, especially the second motion. Although TBH Stormtroopers only suck against the heroes and Ewoks. And who can blame em? I mean, could you shoot this guy?

 

I wouldn't say they sucked against the Ewoks, we only really get a couple of scenes with the Ewoks and Stormtroopers. But ya, though there were more factors at play involved then just the Ewoks beating a couple of Stormies.

[Beniboybling]

I wouldn't say they sucked against the Ewoks, we only really get a couple of scenes with the Ewoks and Stormtroopers. But ya, though there were more factors at play involved then just the Ewoks beating a couple of Stormies.

True, true. I expect we will see stormtroopers kicking *** in Rebels though if its less geared towards major characters and more geared towards the 'disposable' kind. I'm also thinking battles with be more intense, as stormtroopers are not as easy to kill as droids.

[Jandi]

I wouldn't say they sucked against the Ewoks, we only really get a couple of scenes with the Ewoks and Stormtroopers. But ya, though there were more factors at play involved then just the Ewoks beating a couple of Stormies.

 

They were supposed to be Wookiees but Lucas changed his mind to make the movie more appealing for a younger audience. Ewoks make no sense whatsoever to fight anything or even survive on Endor due to it's wildlife, let alone fight, according to Palpatine, "Elite Stormtroopers".

[Wolfninjajedi]

They were supposed to be Wookiees but Lucas changed his mind to make the movie more appealing for a younger audience. Ewoks make no sense whatsoever to fight anything or even survive on Endor due to it's wildlife, let alone fight, according to Palpatine, "Elite Stormtroopers".

 

Yes I realize that, but just because they are small doesn't mean they can't fight. Though really what did we actually see the Ewoks even do? Knock over some Stormtroopers, throw stones at them knocking em over, surprise em from behind and stab em with spears....so...the Ewoks didn't really seem to do much of anything. Even when they did something, they pretty much had to gang up on the troopers...4 of them alone ganged up on 2 troopers.

[Eillack]

They were supposed to be Wookiees but Lucas changed his mind to make the movie more appealing for a younger audience. Ewoks make no sense whatsoever to fight anything or even survive on Endor due to it's wildlife, let alone fight, according to Palpatine, "Elite Stormtroopers".

 

Because guerilla warfare was never an effective weapon against an enemy before in an environment that was mostly foreign to them right?

 

I enjoyed Ep III Wookies' situation a lot more than what would have been in Ep VI. Would have been dull to give such a great race a small bland forest.

[TalonVII]

Yes I realize that, but just because they are small doesn't mean they can't fight. Though really what did we actually see the Ewoks even do? Knock over some Stormtroopers, throw stones at them knocking em over, surprise em from behind and stab em with spears....so...the Ewoks didn't really seem to do much of anything. Even when they did something, they pretty much had to gang up on the troopers...4 of them alone ganged up on 2 troopers.

 

or their rather primitive but EFFECTIVE traps for the technologically advanced troopers. the logs tripping the one. Rope traps for the speeders.

 

The dual logs smashing in the AT ST. Did more than just look cute tossing rocks. They were actually quite inventive.

[Wolfninjajedi]

or their rather primitive but EFFECTIVE traps for the technologically advanced troopers. the logs tripping the one. Rope traps for the speeders.

 

The dual logs smashing in the AT ST. Did more than just look cute tossing rocks. They were actually quite inventive.

 

Well yes the traps, but I was speaking more in line of just the Ewoks. The traps were inventive yes, primitive yes but could still work.

[Eillack]

Well yes the traps, but I was speaking more in line of just the Ewoks. The traps were inventive yes, primitive yes but could still work.

 

And from what it looked like, Ewoks greatly outnumbered the stationed troops on Endor.