So when are you giving bolster for raiding?

[Dawginole]

The top PvP gear is better then the top Raid gear even after bolster... Sooo ummm get over it...

 

 

lulwut? So level 72's are worse than PvP level 28X's?

 

I'd re-examine that if I were you.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Dawginole

[GreenLantern]

You are completely missing the point of bolster. Right now yes it is giving too much benefit, but the point isn't because they want PvE'ers to be able to PvP, they want EVERYONE to be able to get into the Warzone PVP game and not get slaughtered. This was their fix to removing the gear grind from Centurion > Champion > Battlemaster > War Hero > Elite War Hero > Partisan > Conquerer. As with every new tier of PvP and PvE, the old stuff is cut away and a method to re-enter the gear grind system is given (Hard mode flashpoints for PvE progression and Bolster for PvP progression introduction). It's not meant to give you maximum power, but to only get your foot into the door.

[JimG]

So the OP posted a thread 4 days ago announcing unsubbing and quitting the game and giving away all stuff called "I just unsubbed, who wants my stuff? Also a few rants" which contains the following paragraph at the end:

I have no idea why I wasted subscription money on this money grabbing cartel market game. Seems all of the updates now are focused on the cartel store. There has been next to no PvP updates since launch. And i've been playing since launch, I defended this game before it even came out, i had high hopes, I even defended it after launch for a while but meh.. This game flopped badly and deserves to flop even more. Thanks EA. So much potential...wasted.

 

Since then, the OP has posted 13 threads including one today called "Bought CC on wrong account" which states that the OP bought Cartel Coins today. Sorry, but you now have absolutely ZERO credibility with any opinion you post related to this game.

[Spoletta]

You are completely missing the point of bolster. Right now yes it is giving too much benefit, but the point isn't because they want PvE'ers to be able to PvP, they want EVERYONE to be able to get into the Warzone PVP game and not get slaughtered. This was their fix to removing the gear grind from Centurion > Champion > Battlemaster > War Hero > Elite War Hero > Partisan > Conquerer. As with every new tier of PvP and PvE, the old stuff is cut away and a method to re-enter the gear grind system is given (Hard mode flashpoints for PvE progression and Bolster for PvP progression introduction). It's not meant to give you maximum power, but to only get your foot into the door.

 

^At least there is someone who gets it.

 

Edit: Nice find JimG, we totally fell for it.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Spoletta

[Marb]

As a PVPer, i would have to grind PvE gear in order to be good in PvE

 

You as a PvEer wouldnt have to grind PvP gear because your stats would be bolstered, also your higher main stat would make up for the 400 expertise loss or something.

 

I'm not sure why you would want gear checks and treadmills to progress through pvp, when there is no tier or graduation in actual pvp difficulty. In pve its: hm fp>sm ops>hm ops>nightmare ops. Each of these steps require stronger gear to beat those nasty npc's.

 

In pvp it goes: ding 55>queue. How is strong gear tier progression meant to work in an environment with no gated content? Smashing noobs in your elite war hero gear was the worst possible thing for good quality pvp. Skill should be the main deciding factor in pvp, which I thought was the main sentiment of most pvpers anyway.

 

I will concede that ranked warzones shouldn't have any bolster active at all. Pvp should have *some* level of progression, but only if those people are segregated to compete against each other, in the same way that hardmode ops are for people at the same stage of gear progression.

[Copperheadr]

So if "skills" should be the main factor in PVP, what is the main factor in PVE ? Gear, by that logic ?

[Feztonio]

a fully augmented and min/maxed set of top-tier pvp gear will more than gear you enough to do scum and villiany SM, as well as all the new 55-HM flashpoints. run your dailies and use badges to purchase 69 and 72 lvl gear and you'll be fine.

 

or ignore pve gear completely and just raid in your PVP gear. so long as it's augmented (and you have crit at/above 30% and surge at/above 75% - and 110% accuracy if you're a gun / non-glowstick class), you'll be fine. raid with your guild and let them know the deal beforehand and then you won't get any snobs inspecting your gear and getting all butt-hurt.

 

also try getting pug raid slots on monday afternoon / evening as the lockouts and weekly quests reset tuesday; so by monday nights folks are desperate and most players already did the raid content so there's more of a take-what-we-can-get mentality.

[MeisterBabylon]

So if "skills" should be the main factor in PVP, what is the main factor in PVE ? Gear, by that logic ?

Exactly. PVE is gloried 10 men [jumping through the hoops after hitting the gym to beef up by the adequate amount].

 

So, you level the field in pvp.

 

HOWEVER, I dislike the idea of having Bolster in the endgame when you do have a pvp gearing system. I'd much rather have pvp gear that has crap pve stats and some Expertise and Bolster that makes everyone's stats except Expertise equal across ACs.

 

The net result is anyone in any gear can step into pvp and compete, but grinding for pvp gear still rewards you with more expertise. After that, the rest is skill and coordination.

[Radzkie]

Oh as an edit: I would like for you to tell me right now how many people yuou have seen in a WZ with full 72 gear. I mean come on. There's not many guilds (aside from really hardcore ones who care nothing about PvP who have it on farm which is a very small group) that actually have cleared every bit of HM SnV and HM TFB. So please stop the whining

 

*Points to self*

 

Full 72 as of yesterday. Have HM TfB and HM (16 man ) S&V on farm. I do have some conquerors gear though. Plan to grind out a full set eventually. There are actually quite a few hardcore guilds on my server who do both PvE and PvP.

 

Anyway...as people have pointed out, PvE and PvP are two different worlds. Can't treat them exactly the same. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how one of them works.

 

Someone here said that pre 2.0, you could take PvP gear into top tier raids and do OK. The sad truth is that's still true. My group went into 55 HM raids undergeared and cleared them. It was just a bit more stressful. Had to heal the crap out of the tanks because they started off super squishy, and the DPS made sure their rotations were super tight so that we could beat the enrage timers. Gear isn't EVERYTHING in PvE, a good chunk of it is being skilled at your class and coordinating well with your team.

 

Of course, some people wont take PvP geared people into top tier raids because they wont put out the best parses...but on the flip side...some ranked PvP teams wont take PvE geared players because they aren't the best choice.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Radzkie

[AsheraII]

I guess I'll just repost, since raiders love to ignore inconvenient discrepancies they simply can not justify.

 

 

Raiders do dailies and can even easymode the heroics ON THEIR OWN by merrit of their raidgear.

PvP-ers do dailies too, but have a noticably harder time if they try to do the heroic ones on their own.

 

Sure, PvP doesn't damage gear. That is why PVP itself rewards less credits etc.

However, PvP-ers have companions to gear up too, PvP-ers can craft stuff as well and also have to pay through their nose for every diplomacy or underworld trading mission. PvP-ers like customizing their characters too for their own distinguishable appearance, probably even more than raiders, and PvP-ers face the exact same prices for Revans'Mask that raiders do.

 

So WHAT pathetic excuse can you come up with that justifies giving raiders a considerably easier time to aquire the funds and resources involved?

 

Sorry, but it's true, and that raid-or-die design mentality has to end. Raiders are NOT first class citizens, and they should NOT be treated as such either.

 

So that is why I am in favor of introducing a raid-exclusive stat which gives raiders a benefit while they are within a raid environment, but is inactive outside raid environments, meaning their gear would be on par with gear from other content types while outside raid environments.

 

The logic is simply undeniable

[Radzkie]

 

The logic is simply undeniable

 

Or you know...they could just add more PvP dalies. They could also change it so PvP dalies reward bigger sums. There is no need to make a whole new system for PvE gear(that would cause problems/upset...) when there's simple fixes like my aforementioned ones.

 

You can also earn loads of credits via cartel market, and you don't need to PvP or PvE for that. It's not a great option, but it's there nevertheless.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Radzkie

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

So when are you giving bolster for raiding?

 

Asked no one ever.

 

Terrible idea, even worse than the 55 PvP bolster idea.

[Vassise]

Asked no one ever.

 

Terrible idea, even worse than the 55 PvP bolster idea.

 

Thats the point lol

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Thats the point lol

 

Oh so you're saying that because you got shafted everyone else should be too? Glad we're being adult about this

[Vassise]

So the OP posted a thread 4 days ago announcing unsubbing and quitting the game and giving away all stuff called "I just unsubbed, who wants my stuff? Also a few rants" which contains the following paragraph at the end:

 

 

Since then, the OP has posted 13 threads including one today called "Bought CC on wrong account" which states that the OP bought Cartel Coins today. Sorry, but you now have absolutely ZERO credibility with any opinion you post related to this game.

 

Thank you for your post talking about another player, which is against the forum rules.

 

Also, you cant stop me from posting what I want.

[Vassise]

Oh so you're saying that because you got shafted everyone else should be too? Glad we're being adult about this

 

Other people have suggested it too, even if to make a point.

 

55 PvP bolster is a terrible idea, yet they still seem to put it in the game, so why not 55 bolster raiding? lol

[Kilora]

Thank you for your post talking about another player, which is against the forum rules.

 

Also, you cant stop me from posting what I want.

 

Funny, he didn't say he was trying to stop you from posting. Just altering other members to the community about how you aren't actually attempting to do anything constructive.

 

You're trolling out of anger, and it is very immature. Bravo to him for attempting to let the community know.

[Vassise]

Funny, he didn't say he was trying to stop you from posting. Just altering other members to the community about how you aren't actually attempting to do anything constructive.

 

You're trolling out of anger, and it is very immature. Bravo to him for attempting to let the community know.

 

So you're hijacking the thread now? And I'm not trolling, but thats your opinion, which is neither wrong or right

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Other people have suggested it too, even if to make a point.

 

55 PvP bolster is a terrible idea, yet they still seem to put it in the game, so why not 55 bolster raiding? lol

 

Because there's no reason for it at all. Level 55 bolster in PvP was addressing an issue in game, it was implemented horribly, but it was clearly attempting to address a real issue. The issue being that the PvP dailies push a lot of people to PvP who wouldn't otherwise both and those people that only do the daily/weekly gear much more slowly than hardcore PvP. With how Expertise works this undergeared daily crowd was a burden on hardcore crowd. I actually saw people join groups ask "Is anyone just here for the daily" and then bail if anyone said yes.

 

PvE doesn't have the same issue, why? Because it's tiered. Almost all the OPs weeklies can be done via Story Mode and Story Mode is a joke difficulty that you don't really need gear for.

 

Some have argued that tiering 55 PvP would have been a better solution, PvE already has that in place.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Kilora]

So you're hijacking the thread now? And I'm not trolling, but thats your opinion, which is neither wrong or right

 

Yep, clearly I started the hijack.

 

In my opinion, it is trolling. When you've started numerous threads with complaints, many of which contradict each other, and all of which were started after you said you were leaving the game.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Kilora

[Vassise]

Yep, clearly I started the hijack.

 

In my opinion, it is trolling. When you've started numerous threads with complaints, many of which contradict each other, and all of which were started after you said you were leaving the game.

 

I said I cancelled my subscription. Thats different from leaving the game, lets get that out of the way before you trolls start assuming anything else about me.

[AsheraII]

Or you know...they could just add more PvP dalies. They could also change it so PvP dalies reward bigger sums. There is no need to make a whole new system for PvE gear(that would cause problems/upset...) when there's simple fixes like my aforementioned ones.

 

You can also earn loads of credits via cartel market, and you don't need to PvP or PvE for that. It's not a great option, but it's there nevertheless.

They could, but that doesn't solve the core of the problem: raid gear performing better outside raid environments than other gear. The point isn't that PvP-ers have it a little harder aquiring the funds. The problem is that raiders have it *easier* aquiring those funds. And it's not only the credits from the dailies, the same goes for all the other rewards. Reputation rewards, helixes and whatever else the developers may come up with.

 

Giving PvP-ers extra dailies to do doesn't solve that problem. It just masks part of the problem for a while. Untill the next storycontent gets added, like how HK was added, then it'll be glaringly obvious again how raiders, for some unexplainable and unjustifiable reason, are given an advantage over ALL other players in non-raid content.

 

To people who neither raid or pvp, but enjoy spending their time on things like macrobinoculars or space combat or just grinding dailies (yes, some people do just that!), the free advantage raiders get outside raid environments is already undeniably clear. A stat that only increases a players' performance within a raid environment would sort that out. And when that is sorted out, and raiders only have a benefit from their gear within raid environments, the next logical step would be to make expertise only buff the player within designated PvP areas. i.e. warzones, outlaws den and the FFA area on Ilum, but nowhere else, not even on PvP servers.

 

So yes, it should work both ways! Open world content and open world pvp should be where all players face similar challenge and show similar performance. Keep raid benefits within the constraints of dedicated raid content, pvp benefits within the constraints of dedicated pvp content.

For all I care, make dedicated content stats of one type perform for 50% within other dedicated content types, so a player with a 100% PvP buff entering a designated raid area would perform as if he had a 50% raid buff, where a raider would get 100% and someone who did neither would get none, and also the other way round, giving a player who has the full 100% raid buff benefit from a 50% pvp buff while in a pvp environment. Just a small perk from having worked to get the gear you have, but not enough to bring your performance to the max right away. You'd still have to earn that.

 

What does that leave to the players who do neither? They'd get gear progression, identical to raiders and PvP-ers, but just wouldn't get either of the dedicated stats, or a very minimal amount at best, like upto 20%. Outside the dedicated environments, they'd be able to perform completely comparable, but when they enter either of the dedicated environments, they'd have to start from scratch like everybody else and work their way up.

[Vassise]

Because there's no reason for it at all. Level 55 bolster in PvP was addressing an issue in game, it was implemented horribly, but it was clearly attempting to address a real issue. The issue being that the PvP dailies push a lot of people to PvP who wouldn't otherwise both and those people that only do the daily/weekly gear much more slowly than hardcore PvP. With how Expertise works this undergeared daily crowd was a burden on hardcore crowd. I actually saw people join groups ask "Is anyone just here for the daily" and then bail if anyone said yes.

 

PvE doesn't have the same issue, why? Because it's tiered. Almost all the OPs weeklies can be done via Story Mode and Story Mode is a joke difficulty that you don't really need gear from.

 

Some have argued that tiering 55 PvP would have been a better solution, PvE already has that in place.

 

Some good points you have there. But the fact remains that Bioware have completely forgotten about PvP

[Kilora]

I said I cancelled my subscription. Thats different from leaving the game, lets get that out of the way before you trolls start assuming anything else about me.

 

Hmm, seems like you're now the one de-railing the thread.

 

And, calling us trolls for calling you out -- GREAT defense.

 

 

Getting back on subject -- horrible idea.

1.) You can EASILY walk into PvE content with your PvP gear.

2.) You can't do HMs, but guess what? I can't do Ranked in PvE gear. 99% of ranked groups would laugh me out.

3.) PvP gear > PvE gear for PvP. As intended.

4.) PvE gear > PvP gear for PvE. As intended.

[Exastify]

Because there's no reason for it at all. Level 55 bolster in PvP was addressing an issue in game, it was implemented horribly, but it was clearly attempting to address a real issue. The issue being that the PvP dailies push a lot of people to PvP who wouldn't otherwise both and those people that only do the daily/weekly gear much more slowly than hardcore PvP. With how Expertise works this undergeared daily crowd was a burden on hardcore crowd. I actually saw people join groups ask "Is anyone just here for the daily" and then bail if anyone said yes.

 

PvE doesn't have the same issue, why? Because it's tiered. Almost all the OPs weeklies can be done via Story Mode and Story Mode is a joke difficulty that you don't really need gear from.

 

Some have argued that tiering 55 PvP would have been a better solution, PvE already has that in place.

 

What? A fresh 55 with no black hole cant succeed into a sm 55 op or hm 55 fp. Yes it's tiered but that still doesn't stop undergeared people in queueing for the very first tier.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Exastify