What none of you seem to understand about subscriber CC stipends

[branmakmuffin]

All i know is my sub is up in 19 days, after that i am done with this game. Going to play a game i know when i sub i don't have to worry about when new content comes out am i going to have to pay extra on top of what should be standard with the game.

Which MMO is that? The one which name you dare not mention?

[Vinjar]

Which MMO is that? The one which name you dare not mention?

 

I'm not sure which MMO he is talking about but I also sub to Champions Online. While mounts are not account wide they can be shared through the shared bank.

 

CO is actually pretty fun. You gets TONS of customization for your character from costumes, to power color palette. A lot is given under the F2P and then you get more options with a sub.

[branmakmuffin]

I'm not sure which MMO he is talking about but I also sub to Champions Online. While mounts are not account wide they can be shared through the shared bank.

 

CO is actually pretty fun. You gets TONS of customization for your character from costumes, to power color palette. A lot is given under the F2P and then you get more options with a sub.

I've never played CO, so I will reserve judgement. But I find it rather suspicious that he praises some unknown MMO Utopia (maybe that's what it's called!) without naming it.

 

Maybe he's afraid of the BWEA MiBs.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Anijae]

LOL was talking about WoW

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

No one believes that. Not even you. Sure, it's easy to say when you know it will not happen.

 

:rolleyes:

[branmakmuffin]

LOL was talking about WoW

Have fun.

 

:rolleyes:

If that's all you got. I win the interwebz with this final flourish:

 

And it's like something the Nazis would have done.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Feztonio]

Great post OP and true,

 

I am sure when patch 3.0 comes out in the future, and the CM portion is a 5 gig download because it got so big, you can BET that monthly allowance will still not go up. Nothing in life is free, but I would not mind being "paid" more CC for bending over and taking it a little deeper.

 

it's probably similar to Hulu or other services where they give the milk away for free until you get hooked on their milk, then they start charging for the cow. it's coincidentally how the inner-city crack dealers operated in the 80's.. they gave away the crack until their customers became addicts and then charged for the crack once they had hooked them.

 

now that many of us have alot of lvl 55 toons with raid gear and days and weeks worth of play time invested and we're members of guilds and online communities within the game, and we have committments to these new friends and peers, we've realized we rather play SWTOR than WOW or RIFT or any of the other MMO's now they have us right where they want us and our wallets.

 

unless we're willing to walk away from a year and a half of progression, from friendships and from the little niche of the galaxy far, far away that we've established for ourselves, that we're going to have to pay through the nose to keep it. it's bordering on extortion really.. and to those folks that say "ooooh bioware gives us 500 coins and they should get to rip us off as much as they want...." the market is their sole focus and has been for eight months now. it's only going to continue to grow and take an even more central place in SWTOR. there will be a day soon where your 500 coins a month wont cover the content you're forced to unlock a second time on top of the subscription you pay.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Feztonio

[branmakmuffin]

it's probably similar to Hulu or other services where they give the milk away for free until you get hooked on their milk, then they start charging for the cow. it's coincidentally how the inner-city crack dealers operated in the 80's.. they gave away the crack until their customers became addicts and then charged for the crack once they had hooked them.

 

now that many of us have alot of lvl 55 toons with raid gear and days and weeks worth of play time invested and we're members of guilds and online communities within the game, and we have committments to these new friends and peers, we've realized we rather play SWTOR than WOW or RIFT or any of the other MMO's now they have us right where they want us and our wallets.

Oh, geez, TOR is like crack. Is that the most hyperbolic you can get? "TOR is like the breath of the universe bathing all within it in its glowing gold awesomeness. Please, you cannot take this away from me!"

 

unless we're willing to walk away from a year and a half of progression, from friendships and from the little niche of the galaxy far, far away that we've established for ourselves, that we're going to have to pay through the nose to keep it. it's bordering on extortion really.. and to those folks that say "ooooh bioware gives us 500 coins and they should get to rip us off as much as they want...."

Curse BWEA for making me enjoy myself!

 

the market is their sole focus and has been for eight months now.

The market (and I don't mean the CM) has been their focus since day 1.

 

it's only going to continue to grow and take an even more central place in SWTOR. there will be a day soon where your 500 coins a month wont cover the content you're forced to unlock a second time on top of the subscription you pay.

Gah! I think a piece of the sky just fell on me!

 

There will never be a day when CC is necessary to unlock adventuring content.

 

If you can't control your irrational urges, that's not BWEA's fault.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Velarax]

I used to think a subscription was THE way to go with SWTOR. However, in light of the fact that even subscribers do not have access to new content without paying extra, I don't really see the point of continuing to maintain a subscription. Frankly, given that 2.1 content is NOT available to me for free, all my subscription gets me is: extra action bars, access to Section X and Ops. I believe this cynical ploy by BW devalues subscriptions. Evidently, BW has decided that they can just **** all over subscribers from now on. They must be making a shedload in the CM.

 

If there is even one more patch that is not completely accessible to subscribers without any additional charge, I will cancel my subscription. There is no point in paying a monthly fee to play this game if I still have to purchase features a la carte.

 

Screw that.

[branmakmuffin]

I used to think a subscription was THE way to go with SWTOR. However, in light of the fact that even subscribers do not have access to new content without paying extra, I don't really see the point of continuing to maintain a subscription. Frankly, given that 2.1 content is NOT available to me for free, all my subscription gets me is: extra action bars, access to Section X and Ops.

Is that all you get? You're getting screwed, then. I also get more XP, rest XP, unlimited creds, vautl access, and more. You should complain.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

If that's all you got. I win the interwebz

 

No I win with this epic move

Arlon uses Don't feed troll attack

It's super effective.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Velarax]

unless we're willing to walk away from a year and a half of progression, from friendships and from the little niche of the galaxy far, far away that we've established for ourselves, that we're going to have to pay through the nose to keep it. it's bordering on extortion really...

 

I've played SWTOR (and subscribed) since launch, but if there is a single other patch like 2.1 I will cancel my sub and walk away from the entire game. I will not, cannot, and must not condone or support this unspeakable greed. If my $15 a month doesn't buy me access to all content ( don't mind paying for vanity items) then it isn't worth paying. PERIOD.

 

So, BW you get one more chance to show that 2.1 is just a FREAK OCCURRENCE and not a new trend, because I will not pay a brass frickin farthing or cartel coin for ANYTHING I can't get for free with my subscription. This of course, means that I will just ignore 2.1 altogether as though it doesn't exist. The next patch better be back to normal (i.e., where subscribers don't have to pay to access any new content, playable races, storylines, or world areas, etc.) or SWTOR and I will be history and I will devote my game-playing time to Guild Wars 2 and possibly back to WOW, which to Blizzard's credit hasn't had the face in NINE YEARS to EVER charge subscribers for content apart from the price of an Xpac (which by the way, I also paid for in SWTOR).

[Velarax]

Which MMO is that? The one which name you dare not mention?

WOW and GW2 do not charge for new content. WOW has never charged for new content except for the price of Xpacs. Newly patched content between xpacs are free to subscribers, AS IT SHOULD BE. GW2 has an active vanity items market, but offers all new content for FREE.

[galadimana]

In any other game, a new Race likely would have came with a $40 expansion. In SWTOR, Subs pay SIX bucks for it...

 

In that other MMO, Subs have to pay $25 to switch races. In SWTOR, Subs pay less than 8 dollars.

 

I wish there was a sub only option to pay for the physical changes (excluding race change) via credits, but, it's currently cheap enough that 500 coins should allow to to do most of what you want to do.

 

Some people's sense of entitlement is astounding.

 

I'll disagree with this. IF the new race required a new skeleton (like a quadraped), THEN I might understand a true cost to the racial add. But this race is very much limitied to facial features. Few if any gear changes need to be made to accomodate the race - heck, probably none, since cathar companions exist. So this added race cost Bioware ~$0 to create, and charging subscribers for it seems... unnecessary.

[branmakmuffin]

WOW and GW2 do not charge for new content. WOW has never charged for new content except for the price of Xpacs.

So they never charge for stuff except for the stuff they charge for. Got it.

 

Newly patched content between xpacs are free to subscribers, AS IT SHOULD BE. GW2 has an active vanity items market, but offers all new content for FREE.

Then go play GW2 if it's so much better.

[galadimana]

This is your just your opinion. My opinion is SWTOR from the beginning was well worth its 15 dollar monthly sub. And a lot of people thought the same thing however once people that rushed to hit 50th level they found the end game lacking. This is not a problem that is solely found in SWTOR, but other MMOs can relate to this. All these new "WoW-Killers" start out great from the start. People rush to max level then hit the where is the end-game content wall. So people usually go back to WoW where they started and do their dailies and do the same thing they did before any new MMO came out.

 

Now SWTOR is very high maint. because of it's voice acting and the way it was created from other MMOs. So it takes A LOT more time to create actual new content. New races need or new companions, voice acting etc takes way more resources then any other MMO out there. But it's much easier to produce fluff content through the CM, which then produces more resources to pay developers to pay artists, voice actors, etc.

 

Is there really new voice content? I doubt this, but will bite my tongue if it is the case. (afaik, all the classes have the same coice content, irrespective of race.)

 

Also, his point is not that individuals wouldn't decide it was worth $15/mo, but that The Market (not the CM, but the Worldwide MMORPG Purchasing Market) decided (by unsubscribing) that it wasn't worth $15/mo.

[Velarax]

Entitled would only apply to people asking for things they do not pay for, like a F2p complaining about the same things... in this case, people pay and not s single thing in this update do they stop asking for the money. It gets to a point, its becomes sickening...... I EARNED that right!

 

I beg to differ. An "entitlement" is an EARNED BENEFIT, hence beneficiaries of earned benefits are entitled to those benefits. The English language has suffered greatly through corruption, but your use of the word "entitlement" stands the very concept of being "entitled" on its ear.

 

In this case, I believe paying subscribers are "entitled" to access ALL new content, including playable races. If BW elects to make vanity items additional cost items, that's fine. But as a subscriber I believe I'm "entitled" to basic content without paying extra. In fact, a patch like 2.1 which offers new content but only at additional cost, actually devalues my subscription.

 

However, I digress. Whatever your point is, describing those who have not paid as being "entitled" is incorrect, unless you are strictly speaking, discussing only those benefits to which an F2P player would be "entitled." Expecting a benefit to which one is not entitled is the OPPOSITE of being "entitled."

[Velarax]

I'll disagree with this. IF the new race required a new skeleton (like a quadraped), THEN I might understand a true cost to the racial add. But this race is very much limitied to facial features. Few if any gear changes need to be made to accomodate the race - heck, probably none, since cathar companions exist. So this added race cost Bioware ~$0 to create, and charging subscribers for it seems... unnecessary.

 

Blizzard does not charge for content patches in between Xpacs. BW charged for both the Xpac AND new content (patch 2.1). Charging subscribers additional $$ to access the in-between content patches is a damned outrage and only further devalues the benefit of having a subscription. I could save the $15 a month and buy Cartel Coins instead and get more for my money.

[branmakmuffin]

In this case, I believe paying subscribers are "entitled" to access ALL new content, including playable races. If BW elects to make vanity items additional cost items, that's fine. But as a subscriber I believe I'm "entitled" to basic content without paying extra. In fact, a patch like 2.1 which offers new content but only at additional cost, actually devalues my subscription.

You have 100% access to all basic adventuring content. So your "problem" is solved.

 

Blizzard does not charge for content patches in between Xpacs. BW charged for both the Xpac AND new content (patch 2.1). Charging subscribers additional $$ to access the in-between content patches is a damned outrage and only further devalues the benefit of having a subscription. I could save the $15 a month and buy Cartel Coins instead and get more for my money.

Then stop talking about it and do it.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[sharpenedstick]

As I knew would happen, the Fanboi Forum Defense Force rushed in without bothering to actually read anything in the original post. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I guess there's something to be said for consistency.

 

This is not about whether subs "deserve" Cathar, or anything else for that matter. This is not about the wisdom or desirability of making most new content CM only. It's not even about the size of the stipend.

 

I'm only pointing out to you all that the stipend is not "free." It has a hidden cost built in to the subscription price. When F2P hit, the decision was made to allocate part of our subscription fee to an automatic CC purchase. They could have simply lowered the price of subs, but that would cost them money whereas free coins do not.

 

Remember, this is nothing sinister. EA is a company. Companies exist to make money.

 

But, since companies exist to make money, you have to realize the reality of the economics behind what you mistakenly call "free." Do you really think they're giving us coins because they're all great guys?

[sharpenedstick]

This is your just your opinion. My opinion is SWTOR from the beginning was well worth its 15 dollar monthly sub. And a lot of people thought the same thing however once people that rushed to hit 50th level they found the end game lacking. This is not a problem that is solely found in SWTOR, but other MMOs can relate to this. All these new "WoW-Killers" start out great from the start. People rush to max level then hit the where is the end-game content wall. So people usually go back to WoW where they started and do their dailies and do the same thing they did before any new MMO came out.

 

Now SWTOR is very high maint. because of it's voice acting and the way it was created from other MMOs. So it takes A LOT more time to create actual new content. New races need or new companions, voice acting etc takes way more resources then any other MMO out there. But it's much easier to produce fluff content through the CM, which then produces more resources to pay developers to pay artists, voice actors, etc.

 

There are a number of very dubious assertions here.

 

FIrst, new races do not require new voice acting. Try playing the same class multiple times with the same gender but as different races. They all sound the same! Why? Because race is just a skin. Everything else is the same.

 

Second, it is not necessarily "easier" to produce content for the CM. Other games manage to make content as part of normal game updates. The CM is EA's model and that's fine, because it saved the game.

 

Finally, while you erroneously feel that your subjective sense of value vindicates whatever crazy cost you want, the economic theory of Real Value provides us with an objective measurement that is not so dependent on fanboi fantasies.

 

Let me use an example:

 

Suppose you go to the movies to see Iron Man 3. The nice lady at the ticket booth tells you it's $15 (must be 3D!), and you want to see it, so you pay.

 

At the same time, some other guy approaches the ticket booth and the lady tells him he can see it for free, but he can't watch the trailers or the end credits, and he can only pick a seat after all the paying customers have sat.

 

Whether or not you think getting to pick your seat and seeing the trailers and the end credits is worth $15 to you (after all, you may be rich, or you may love Iron Man and be willing to pay any price), the objective consumer will see the value of a purchased ticket to have been reduced.

 

So the movie theater then gives you a "free" small popcorn. It could reduce the price of the ticket to reach the true value, but the theater would prefer to keep your $3 (the difference, say) and give you popcorn, which costs it (virtually) nothing.

Edited May 17, 2013 by sharpenedstick

[Cay_Chamma]

As I knew would happen, the Fanboi Forum Defense Force rushed in without bothering to actually read anything in the original post. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I guess there's something to be said for consistency.

I read you original post, and I disagree with your opinion. I could repeat some of the rational for why I, and others, disagree with your opinion. But, I'm sure you would ignore it and continue to believe what you wish.

 

I'm only pointing out to you all that the stipend is not "free." It has a hidden cost built in to the subscription price. When F2P hit, the decision was made to allocate part of our subscription fee to an automatic CC purchase. They could have simply lowered the price of subs, but that would cost them money whereas free coins do not.

Unless you can point me towards a quote from one of the developers stating that was the exact reason for giving subscribers 500 CCs, then I will have to treat your statement as baseless conjecture. Because that's what it is.

[Alandross]

Look, this is simple... you don't like the benefits of being a sub then don't sub, very simple. An entire thread debating the word semantics of "free" CC granted to subs is kind of ridiculous. It's like a meta conversation based on a meta conversation based on a meta conversation.

 

From a business/consumer model the CC grant isn't free it's a perk of subbing... call it what you will it doesn't change what it is in the end.

[sharpenedstick]

Unless you can point me towards a quote from one of the developers stating that was the exact reason for giving subscribers 500 CCs, then I will have to treat your statement as baseless conjecture. Because that's what it is.

 

It's not conjecture, just economics. But then again, I'm sure everything you don't understand you label as conjecture. I doubt very much you could engage in any rigorous analysis of the issue.

[Astarica]

The easiest way to see how the CC stipend isn't free is that imagine they offer you $3 off each month of whatever plan you are but you get no CC stipends. I'd imagine 99% of the people would take that plan over the current one, even though technically your stipend is worth more than $3/month.

 

It's really no different than an informercial that sells you one thing plus 10 other random stuff all for free. You're not really getting all that extras for free. It's there to offset the fact that you almost certainly way overpaid to begin with and they're hoping you won't notice with all the extras thrown in. In general, the $15/month subscription model is failing everywhere (even WoW is getting hit hard), so they're hoping to disguise the fact that $15/month for any subscription game is a bad idea with some perks that clearly aren't worth it, as very few people would take the CC stipend over a $3/month discount on their subscription fees.