Should there be a thing that lets you change to like a juggernaut to a murrader?

[Lostpenguins]

That is not what we are talking about and you know it. We have characters that we have spent time leveling and doing the story, the same exact story, and dont want to start over. There are some styles that are different but they have many of the same ones too (force jump, force choke). I also have Doc at max affection Kira at about 8k and the other are between 6k and 1k and artiface is maxed. So i should just start over cause i would rather be the other advance class even though they share 90% of the game with each other ? No chance.

 

Give us more reasons to play, not more reason to stop playing

I'll say it like many others before me in this thread, "No." Even with their the same basic class and have some similarities, they are different advanced classes. Even more so that Juggs and Marauders wear different armor sets (heavy and medium).

 

When you were first picking your class it clearly said this was permanent. There needs to be some "point of no return" decisions in this game. This is one of them.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[CelCawdro]

When you were first picking your class it clearly said this was permanent. There needs to be some "point of no return" decisions in this game. This is one of them.

 

My question is simple: Why?

 

Don't get me wrong - I loved those old RPGs and even older MMORPGs where virtually every step you took was a decision that would affect the rest of your journey. But that isn't how games are, nowadays. They're ephemeral, individualized and accessible, for good or for ill. Other than resisting change, why you prevent people from going back on this decision when virtually every other one has a reset button?

[Thundergulch]

But that isn't how games are, nowadays.

 

That's how this one is.

[Skylancewalker]

And i don't have time to make it up to 47 all over again and the same story.

 

If you would get off of here and start playing you would have plenty of time.

[CelCawdro]

That's how this one is.

 

This game allows you to cancel conversations to restart them. It allows you to reset your talents as many times as you wish. It allows you to replay stories daily, both in the world and instanced, making different choices each time. It allows you to change the entire appearance of your character. It allows you to change the entire species of your character.

 

The decisions you make are extremely ephemeral. "That's how this one is" in regards to a singular aspect - changing your advanced class. But to change that, too, isn't too much of a leap given the many other ways in which your past decisions mean nothing in-game. That one aspect is a relic.

 

I ask again: Why?

Edited May 16, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Vyerix]

I rather like once you pick your AC that is it. Want a different AC then make a new character.

 

So to the original question. No

[Lostpenguins]

This game allows you to cancel conversations to restart them. It allows you to reset your talents as many times as you wish. It allows you to replay stories daily, both in the world and instanced, making different choices each time. It allows you to change the entire appearance of your character. It allows you to change the entire species of your character.

 

The decisions you make are extremely ephemeral. "That's how this one is" in regards to a singular aspect - changing your advanced class. But to change that, too, isn't too much of a leap given the many other ways in which your past decisions mean nothing in-game. That one aspect is a relic.

 

I ask again: Why?

"Why?" is no more valid than saying "Why not?"

 

Why? Because the designers chose it that way. Because in any system with options, they decide what options are complete. They gave a reason for not being allowed to change gender. They did the same for AC. They want your AC to feel unique enough and not be able to just click a button and become something else entirely. They had the cutoff point at respec'ing your talent trees.

 

That's where they wanted it. Some of us agree for our own opinions. You do not. That's fine, but asking, "Why?" doesn't make you right.

[darkbadeo]

k lerts put everything aside,

lets say bioware does implement respec for adv classes (going from inq sorc to inq assasin)

right now we have tree respecs and those costs credits

or cartel points to do it on the fly

 

however bioware is smart enough to never make adv class respec on the fly

nor will they ever let you use it with creds alone

if they intend to give you adv class respec itl probably cost you cartel market points

 

why you ask?

because the game clearly states that once you choose your adv class this would be irreversable,

so lets say they add the respec into the cm

they will have giant limitations on it(making it once a day or once weekly only)

again why?

cause it would break the game for instance your a inq assasin tank yet your getting suddenly wiped in pvp cause of no healer

you respec to a different class you heal everyone then go back to tanking?

is that fair for the oposing team?

if everyone had it probably it would

but whats the joy in that?

there will no longer be any need for specific class roles

nor would anyone want you in your team if your not a BH or INQ

this would limit game play for agents and warriors

is this what you want?

 

to break the game so that players will stop playing cause everyone expects you to be a class you dont like?

i say no

no to hte class respec unles its a weekly CM thing

 

you can think of this as you may

i gave you the explanation as simple as i could, still dont understand? please go back to wow then.

[gammofet]

I just wan't it to happen so i can switch my AC for my warrior!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lord Latorian 42 Juggernaut

 

Buzzles 19 Commando

[HaoZhao]

I used to be for this, but after thinking about it a while back, I am now dead set against it.

 

If you want to try a new advanced class, start a new character. The big issue for me is experience. I don't want to start a HM flash point with a tank who has only been a tank for hours. The game play experience you get while levelling up your character is vital. In a way, levels 1-50 are training you to be comfortable with your class by the time you reach the end game.

[gammofet]

I still think its a good idea. Edited May 18, 2013 by gammofet

[CosmicKat]

I used to be for this, but after thinking about it a while back, I am now dead set against it.

 

If you want to try a new advanced class, start a new character. The big issue for me is experience. I don't want to start a HM flash point with a tank who has only been a tank for hours. The game play experience you get while levelling up your character is vital. In a way, levels 1-50 are training you to be comfortable with your class by the time you reach the end game.

 

Saying the first 50 levels are for training is like saying playing Donkey Kong is training to be an Olympic hurdler.

 

The first 50 levels are an ultra easy solo game.

[Ratajack]

Saying the first 50 levels are for training is like saying playing Donkey Kong is training to be an Olympic hurdler.

 

The first 50 levels are an ultra easy solo game.

 

The point of the first 50, or 55 for those with the expansion, levels isn't as much about learning to group with a specific class as it is about learning the skills of that class and how and when to use them.

[HaoZhao]

The first 50 levels are an ultra easy solo game.

 

If you don't know what you're doing maybe. The pre-50 game introduces you to flash point and lets you get comfortable with your role's key bindings.

[CosmicKat]

If you don't know what you're doing maybe. The pre-50 game introduces you to flash point and lets you get comfortable with your role's key bindings.

 

The first 10 levels should be to introduce you to game mechanics. The next 10 to teach you how to play your AC and the rest to teach you how to play with other classes, gradually increasing the difficulty so that you need to team with more and more people, which is the only way you can truly learn how to play your own class effectively.

 

That's also the best way to encourage a community to develop in the game, and subsequently to "hook" players to the game for the long term.

[Marb]

I still think this is an issue regarding terminology. The game does let you respec, for no cost at all for a subscriber.

 

Letting you pay to change your advanced class (class) would have to come with some severe restrictions. This system would essentially be monetizing FOTM re-rollers.

 

Can you imagine what would happen to the class distribution in WoW if they offered paid class changes?

[Ratajack]

I still think this is an issue regarding terminology. The game does let you respec, for no cost at all for a subscriber.

 

Letting you pay to change your advanced class (class) would have to come with some severe restrictions. This system would essentially be monetizing FOTM re-rollers.

 

Can you imagine what would happen to the class distribution in WoW if they offered paid class changes?

 

Make no mistake. If they allow AC changes, that will be the next item on the wish list. It will be justified by the excuse "We can already change classes from marauder to juggernaut. Why not let us change from marauder to powertech." The fact that the current argument is that juggernaut and marauder are both the same class(sith warrior) and not two different classes will be completely forgotten or ignored and downplayed.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Ratajack

[CelCawdro]

"Why?" is no more valid than saying "Why not?"

 

Why? Because the designers chose it that way. Because in any system with options, they decide what options are complete. They gave a reason for not being allowed to change gender. They did the same for AC. They want your AC to feel unique enough and not be able to just click a button and become something else entirely. They had the cutoff point at respec'ing your talent trees.

 

That's where they wanted it. Some of us agree for our own opinions. You do not. That's fine, but asking, "Why?" doesn't make you right.

 

I never said it did. Everyone can have an opinion, but the ability to clearly support one's opinion when asked to is pretty important, as well. I like to be able to clearly understand both sides of an issue. I like to know why people hold a particular stance. Even if an agreement cannot be reached, I like to understand, as thoroughly as possible, the viewpoints of everyone involved.

 

Also, you cannot cherry-pick what you want to address. Yes, the developers gave a technical reason for not allowing gender swaps - that's not a "design decision," but a technical limitation. The same one given for faction changes. This isn't because they choose not to have these options, but because the engine itself doesn't allow for these options. In that very same breath, they stated that species changes and AC changes are "likely," one of which has come to fruition:

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.

 

If you were to ask me, "Why not?" I would answer, "Because permanence, for good or for ill, is not conducive to the gameplay structure of modern MMOs, including SW:TOR. This game allows you to change story decisions if you don't like how a conversation is playing out, it allows you to replay entire stories, it allows you to change your character's entire appearance, it allows you to change your species, it allows you to change your specialization. Within your chosen class, you can change virtually anything. The inability to change advanced class is an arbitrary decision, and it is the only relic remaining from a bygone era in the genre."

 

When I ask myself, "Why?" the only answer I can come up with is, "Because decisions used to matter and follow you throughout your entire experience in RPGs and MMOs, both from a narrative and gameplay point of view." Because that's exactly what I thought until relatively recently. But the genre has changed, for good or for ill. I can recognize that. And I can recognize that holding on to now-outdated notions is harming the game, preventing it from exploiting a pretty good chunk of revenue.

 

So I ask again: Why?

 

Make no mistake. If they allow AC changes, that will be the next item on the wish list. It will be justified by the excuse "We can already change classes from marauder to juggernaut. Why not let us change from marauder to powertech." The fact that the current argument is that juggernaut and marauder are both the same class(sith warrior) and not two different classes will be completely forgotten or ignored and downplayed.

 

Except that class-to-class swaps are an impossibility due to story flags - the same reason they gave for stating that gender changing isn't going to happen. Switching between advanced classes is a pretty binary process that doesn't affect any other facets of the game.

Edited May 17, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Ratajack]

 

Except that class-to-class swaps are an impossibility due to story flags - the same reason they gave for stating that gender changing isn't going to happen. Switching between advanced classes is a pretty binary process that doesn't affect any other facets of the game.

 

Is it possible to code in a "change indicator A to B" option? I would say it probably is. Is it possible to code in a reset all quests and story flag option? i would say that is also likely. Is it easier to do the former than the latter? Again, my answer would be probably.

 

Does that fact that something is possible to do mean that it should be done? I would say not always. Some things are better left untouched. The option to have a character of a different class already exists in game. It's called re-roll.

 

As I stated before, the most common reasons I've seen for wanting to change class are either "my class got nerfed and I want to play the OP one" or "I want to level easy mode and then switch to the class I want to play at endgame for my guild". Neither one of those two reason is a legitimate reason, in my opinion. Someone earlier in this thread stated that with the advent of the CM and F2P, some people have spent real life money on a particular character. Fortunately with the advent of the collection system, it might cost that person a little bit, but they can have access to most, if not all, of the items they spent real money to obtain on all their characters, even a new one created to play a different class.

[gammofet]

My son came up with a idea to make the game play better was if you were able to change your spec in the same class. So I am not a fan of my inquisitor so it would be great if I could switch to assassin instead. That way I wouldn't have to regrind all that stuff again. Wow does it that way and it works out great. this is on gammos fourm.

[seekerofpower]

My son came up with a idea to make the game play better was if you were able to change your spec in the same class. So I am not a fan of my inquisitor so it would be great if I could switch to assassin instead. That way I wouldn't have to regrind all that stuff again. Wow does it that way and it works out great. this is on gammos fourm.

 

As has been said many times, WoW allows SPEC changes, which SWTOR already has. What you are asking for is a class change, which WoW does not allow.

[CelCawdro]

As has been said many times, WoW allows SPEC changes, which SWTOR already has. What you are asking for is a class change, which WoW does not allow.

 

Technically, it's an advanced class change, which WoW cannot have because it doesn't have advanced classes, not because of any design decisions. Using WoW as an example for this discussion, as a pro or a con, doesn't work as there is no analogue for this system to be found there.

[CosmicKat]

Technically, it's an advanced class change, which WoW cannot have because it doesn't have advanced classes, not because of any design decisions. Using WoW as an example for this discussion, as a pro or a con, doesn't work as there is no analogue for this system to be found there.

 

Using WoW as a comparison to TOR is pointless on many levels.

 

WoW is far more successful than TOR. TOR has to therefore work to be better than WoW, not to emulate it.

[LordArtemis]

I think we need dual spec first.

 

If they were to add the ability to change your advanced class, which I think would be fine (the whole "choices have to be meaningful" point is pretty pointless now IMO), I think it should be restricted to after you have finished your class storyline. That way there would be no problems with hopping over into an alternate story.

[Aries_cz]

I think there should be no such thing.

 

You can preview the advanced classes before rolling the character, you get to preview them before selecting them. That should let you make a reasonable judgment to pick the one you want.

 

Advanced class IS your class for 99% of the game.

 

They have completely different playstyle, different skills, different roles in combat (even when in the "shared" spec)