Beware: Dye Modules, TOTAL RIPOFF

[Anzel]

Exactly.

 

Every single dye in the first release that I wanted for armor dying I now have multiple copies of and in storage for my use. It cost me ZERO coins (hey Anzel.. that means I did not play any lottery, or spend any cartel coins ) and frankly cost me less then if I actually used my Artificer (on a total investment basis).

 

Dyes are a new feature in the game. I you like/want dyes.. they are available to any player who would like to go get them off the GTN. Dyes have constraints... but even with the constraints.. they are well enough done for first release to let players make some very nice color improvements to their gear.

 

Their lottery system is total garbage. Every new little feature they add to this game is purposely over complicated and driven by their garbage lottery packs. Good for you for buying them off of the GTN but the system is complete garbage.

 

The design is intentionally convoluted and they probably spent 100x more effort designing it that way instead of just adding them directly to the market. That's the most disgusting part of the system. They are already asking for more money from their subscribers/customers. Every tiny little feature is now stamped "extra". It's not enough that you have to pay extra... they have to be even more terrible by making it a lottery system.

 

THEY ARE A BUNCH OF LIARS AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE.

 

They aren't worried about all of you quitting. They know that you are going to quit. They are banking on it. It's on their little financial projections and project plans. The only goal for this game right now is to suck as much money from the existing subscriber base with their garbage lottery packs.

 

But you know that already don't you?

Edited May 19, 2013 by Anzel

[Sazabius]

Weeks behind?

[dyarshin]

" AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE"

/signed

Exactly what i think about it...

Will they loose customers and forfeit having players actually make good use of coloring items? I bet they do. I had to laugh out loud when reading "We hear you loud and clear" while we all know that nothing is going to change...

Basically they farted into our faces and dare to act as if they are surprised that we kinda don't like it.

But ..hey! That's no problem at all since there will be other content ...yay..other content that won't be "market-driven" ...soon ...something... it will be cool ... and..definatly not solve things that we are really interested in ..like haveing ..lets say black/black.

And...after that... whats next? another "market-driven" scam? ^^

 

Won't probably not be here by that time though.... i usually tend not to reward unethical buisness by spending money or time into it.

Edited May 20, 2013 by dyarshin

[Knockerz]

The dye colour system is fine.

[Anzel]

" AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE"

/signed

Exactly what i think about it...

Will they loose customers and forfeit having players actually make good use of coloring items? I bet they do. I had to laugh out loud when reading "We hear you loud and clear" while we all know that nothing is going to change...

Basically they farted into our faces and dare to act as if they are surprised that we kinda don't like it.

 

Oh they heard it alright. They just don't give a flying crap. They posted that hoping everyone would just shut up about it. But they didn't say, "and oh by the way we are just going to add a tab on the kiosk for dyes" or they didn't say, "we're taking dyes out of our crappy gambling packs" or they didn't say, "oh by the way, dyes are reusable". Nooooooooooo.

 

They've designed the most complicated and unethical system possible so that they can keep sucking your money over and over and over again. They could care less if you quit. They don't care. They know everyone's leaving. It's part of their business plan at this point. They just want as much cash as possible from everyone before they go.

[Knockerz]

Their lottery system is total garbage. Every new little feature they add to this game is purposely over complicated and driven by their garbage lottery packs. Good for you for buying them off of the GTN but the system is complete garbage.

 

The design is intentionally convoluted and they probably spent 100x more effort designing it that way instead of just adding them directly to the market. That's the most disgusting part of the system. They are already asking for more money from their subscribers/customers. Every tiny little feature is now stamped "extra". It's not enough that you have to pay extra... they have to be even more terrible by making it a lottery system.

 

THEY ARE A BUNCH OF LIARS AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE.

 

They aren't worried about all of you quitting. They know that you are going to quit. They are banking on it. It's on their little financial projections and project plans. The only goal for this game right now is to suck as much money from the existing subscriber base with their garbage lottery packs.

 

But you know that already don't you?

 

 

Not really. I haven't log into the game in two week, because of school work. However, I still pay my sub. When I have free time I log in and play the game in french to practice my french. I get to practice my french and play swtor so I get the best of two worlds. As for cost, I it isn't much. On Friday I went to the movies, semi bar to play pool, then had a beer pong. I can tell you I spent more on Friday like 30-40 dollars on drinks, food, and a movie ticket. Swtor is cheap compared to going out and like the fact that I can play it in French, German, or English compared to the other panda game that forces you to buy separate copies for different regions.

[Seravie]

" AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE"

/signed

Exactly what i think about it...

Will they loose customers and forfeit having players actually make good use of coloring items? I bet they do. I had to laugh out loud when reading "We hear you loud and clear" while we all know that nothing is going to change...

Basically they farted into our faces and dare to act as if they are surprised that we kinda don't like it.

But ..hey! That's no problem at all since there will be other content ...yay..other content that won't be "market-driven" ...soon ...something... it will be cool ... and..definatly not solve things that we are really interested in ..like haveing ..lets say black/black.

And...after that... whats next? another "market-driven" scam? ^^

 

Won't probably not be here by that time though.... i usually tend not to reward unethical buisness by spending money or time into it.

 

Oh yes, the worst unethical business practices ever, like how Siemens aided the final solution, or the congo free state.. yes EA's decision to charge us for virtual items are worse than any of these business practices.

[DmdShiva]

I really wish other MMO games would take what City of Heroes had with their tailor shop. That was the best customization to date imo. So sad to see it go.

 

Unfortunately, no gear-based MMO is ever going to have the flexibility of City of Heroes' costume editor. And even being able to pay your money and pick whatever primary and secondary colors you wanted wouldn't begin to address the problem -- for example, my Imperial Agent has (IIRC) the TD-04A Talon chestpiece; her arms, from the middle of the upper arm (above that, the sleeve covers it) to her wrists is a pale grey... that's part of the 'uncolorable' part of the chestpiece mesh, so no matter what colors I picked for primary and secondary, she always had pasty-grey arms; only the grey combinations didn't look horrible, and the grey sets looked like generic Imperial uniforms, which I already had.

[Anzel]

Oh yes, the worst unethical business practices ever, like how Siemens aided the final solution, or the congo free state.. yes EA's decision to charge us for virtual items are worse than any of these business practices.

 

I think we understand each other

[DmdShiva]

GTN market forces are already taking care of this, and doing so much better then your suggestion could ever achieve. There is no need to implement fixed price CCs on dyes in the CM. All that will do is drive up prices in game and make even the common CM dyes out of reach of average players.

 

The problem with this is that there is clearly a wide and deep streak of "I know what the value of this item is, and nothing in the GTN can convince me differently" among the playerbase. Items can only be listed on the GTN for two days at time, but I still see CM items listed -- with 'two days left to run' -- for hundreds of thousands of credits, while the exact same item can be found on the GTN for under a thousand credits. There are apparently people solidly convinced that their rare CM item is worth half a million credits, and if they keep relisting it enough times, someone will recognize its value and pay that much for it, instead of paying a hundredth that much or less for someone else's listing of the same item. They're the GTN equivalent of a vexatious litigant, and all they do is clog the market with spam listings (fortunately, though, these are off at the end of the listing, so you don't normally see them, although their presence skews your perception of what's available when, say, the last five screens of ten are listing items for a thousand times what they're selling for earlier in the listings).

[MeisterBabylon]

Which is the problem with this gambling system. Some guys just get all the luck, other's have none of it. And then there's the rest of us who aren't ever going for black/black for various reasons and instead are drowning in GTN-bought modules for bargain bin prices.

 

If the random dyes never existed, the GTN wouldn't be deluged with dye modules, and even more players would never get to spend credits to buy these things.

 

If there was a way to buy cash currency using game currency, then yes, gambling makes it all worse. But since there isn't, the only way most of us are getting it within reasonable prices is for the system to generate so much junk that the price of each not-so-demanded module gets competed right down to the clearing point.

 

I'd hate to admit it, but its the better of a really bad situation.

[Andryah]

The problem with this is that there is clearly a wide and deep streak of "I know what the value of this item is, and nothing in the GTN can convince me differently" among the playerbase. Items can only be listed on the GTN for two days at time, but I still see CM items listed -- with 'two days left to run' -- for hundreds of thousands of credits, while the exact same item can be found on the GTN for under a thousand credits. There are apparently people solidly convinced that their rare CM item is worth half a million credits, and if they keep relisting it enough times, someone will recognize its value and pay that much for it, instead of paying a hundredth that much or less for someone else's listing of the same item.

 

It matters not what someone lists an item for. What matters is what people will pay. I play the GTN, so I am very familiar with the true market prices for many CM items on the GTN. When supply dries up on an item periodically, some people then try to list and scalp buyers with unrealistic prices. Those items sit and do not sell, because most players actually know the approximate fair market value of the item they are shopping for. I see it all the time on the market... and the reason I follow it closely is because when I want to list an item.. I want it to sell, so I set price to 95% of the current fair market price trend for the item for the last several weeks.

 

Dye prices are in flux right now, with some people dumping and others trying to scalp the market.. but I already know the market price point for a good number of the dyes in spite of this. Prices will zero in to a normal range for each item fairly quickly and then oscilate around that point. It may shift over time due to a change in the game, but otherwise.. they are going to be stable (regardless of silly high listing prices by some).

 

I'll say it one more time.. market forces are already dealing with baselining the true price (value) of individual dyes, both crafted and CM dyes.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Andryah

[Thaed]

The problem with this is that there is clearly a wide and deep streak of "I know what the value of this item is, and nothing in the GTN can convince me differently" among the playerbase. Items can only be listed on the GTN for two days at time, but I still see CM items listed -- with 'two days left to run' -- for hundreds of thousands of credits, while the exact same item can be found on the GTN for under a thousand credits. There are apparently people solidly convinced that their rare CM item is worth half a million credits, and if they keep relisting it enough times, someone will recognize its value and pay that much for it, instead of paying a hundredth that much or less for someone else's listing of the same item. They're the GTN equivalent of a vexatious litigant, and all they do is clog the market with spam listings (fortunately, though, these are off at the end of the listing, so you don't normally see them, although their presence skews your perception of what's available when, say, the last five screens of ten are listing items for a thousand times what they're selling for earlier in the listings).

 

I dunno, I do that with my Korrealis mount so people think that the ones up for 20 mil are cheap. That way, they'll buy all the cheaper ones until people run out and I'll be the only person to have any left. Teehee.

 

Also, this dye system is still terrible beyond the dye lottery. It's an obviously rushed job so that they can say 'hey! look! we have dyes too!'

[Anzel]

It matters not what someone lists an item for. What matters is what people will pay. I play the GTN, so I am very familiar with the true market prices for many CM items on the GTN. When supply dries up on an item periodically, some people then try to list and scalp buyers with unrealistic prices. Those items sit and do not sell, because most players actually know the approximate fair market value of the item they are shopping for. I see it all the time on the market... and the reason I follow it closely is because when I want to list an item.. I want it to sell, so I set price to 95% of the current fair market price trend for the item for the last several weeks.

 

Dye prices are in flux right now, with some people dumping and others trying to scalp the market.. but I already know the market price point for a good number of the dyes in spite of this. Prices will zero in to a normal range for each item fairly quickly and then oscilate around that point. It may shift over time due to a change in the game, but otherwise.. they are going to be stable (regardless of silly high listing prices by some).

 

I'll say it one more time.. market forces are already dealing with baselining the true price (value) of individual dyes, both crafted and CM dyes.

 

Explaining over and over again how this garbage system works doesn't make it any less crappy. A steaming pile of dog cap smells just as bad no matter how many times you 'explain' it to us.

 

1.) The dyes are part of the new gambling system that is predatory and unethical at best

2.) They are disposable. Spend hundreds of dollars for that special color? Its a one time use. Just keep spending.

3.) They purposely convoluted a system that should have been both simple and FREE.

[Snowangel]

THEY ARE A BUNCH OF LIARS AND ARE DOING BUSINESS IN ONE OF THE MOST UNETHICAL WAYS POSSIBLE.

 

They aren't worried about all of you quitting. They know that you are going to quit. They are banking on it. It's on their little financial projections and project plans. The only goal for this game right now is to suck as much money from the existing subscriber base with their garbage lottery packs.

 

But you know that already don't you?

 

Yes I already know. The thought, that the game is going to be shut down, did cross my mind when I realized what a big opportunity was given away for quick money. Obviously, they have lost faith in SWTOR and decided on short-tail business for the future. Plus there is a world wide trend to sell out the young ones, especially via computer and console games. That indeed is unethical.

 

However, I haven't lost my faith. I still hope everyone will wake up some day and refuse to be milked like cows any longer. Its our money they want. We want fun, entertainment, distraction from the of the real world. What we really don't need is a virtual world where we get restricted, bossed around, betrayed and again. I will definitely not pay someone for doing so. I still have a choice.

 

Of course I don't want SWTOR to go offline either. In fact, I want it to become the most successful F2P/Sub-Hybrid game ever. So I just don't buy any more Dye Modules - neither in the Cartel nor on GTM - for they indeed are a total rip-off and absolutely boring at that. Colors must be freely selectable and easily available for everyone.

However, I am looking forward to the next Contraband Cartel Pack because before they get my money for coloring, I need some gear that is worth coloring at all. And by the time my barbies are all dressed up, I wish to paint them decently - not with bright children's colors - in any way I like.

 

Supply and demand. Control the demand and you control the supply. It's like PVP; Gel two turrets and win a game. Just don't suck at guarding plus you better not forget to support what you like - otherwise they will have no foundation to provide new supplies.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited May 20, 2013 by Snowangel

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Grumpy Cathar approves this thread:

http://www.robertjturner.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/e64d49007c_wpid-facebook--3632397281.jpg

[Quraswren]

Oh and let's not forget, not only can you not change the colors... you also cannot simply buy the colors you want from the market! No, when you buy a Dye pack it's luck of the draw!

SNIP...

 

Thats the worst part for me. Not being able to buy the colors I want but waiting for someone else to buy enough packs and then post what I would like on the GTN.

 

Not fond of it as a subscriber.

[WreckLessRebel]

You just cant please some people smh.

[DarthTHC]

Explaining over and over again how this garbage system works doesn't make it any less crappy. A steaming pile of dog cap smells just as bad no matter how many times you 'explain' it to us.

 

1.) The dyes are part of the new gambling system that is predatory and unethical at best

2.) They are disposable. Spend hundreds of dollars for that special color? Its a one time use. Just keep spending.

3.) They purposely convoluted a system that should have been both simple and FREE.

 

1) It's only predatory or unethical if the people buying the gambling packs are unaware they're buying gambling packs. So basically you're saying you're unaware that you're buying gambling packs? How could you possibly be unaware of that fact?

 

2) Why would you spend hundreds of dollars when you can wait patiently for 2 days and buy it from GTN for a few million credits (worst case on my server)? If you can't afford a few million credits, read the stickies in the Crew Skills forum or figure out how to turn cartel coins into credits risk-free. (Hint: $ -> Cartel Coins -> Gambling Packs (UNOPENED!) -> GTN -> Credits!)

 

3) They did it because they need to draw revenue from this game because they spend money to keep it running. They deserve to draw revenue from the customers who enjoy the game because customers are getting value (entertainment - enjoying the game) and EA is providing the service through which that happens.

 

 

Thats the worst part for me. Not being able to buy the colors I want but waiting for someone else to buy enough packs and then post what I would like on the GTN.

 

Not fond of it as a subscriber.

 

As a subscriber, that's the best part of it for me. I don't have to spend a single cartel coin. I can be a bit patient (and my wife says I have none, HAH!) and get whatever I want for credits.

 

It's the Kiosk that grinds me a bit - no other way to do that than to spend cartel coins.

Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC

[EmblemElite]

They need a cartel market item that makes people stop crying on the forums and makes people that keep saying they are quitting the game actually quit, and maybe it can even get the people who quit and come back to quit and not come back. That would be awesome.

 

P.S. Dye system works perfectly fine. Got black/black and pink/purple the two patterns I wanted for a total of 500k credits on the GTN.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

They need a cartel market item that makes people stop crying

 

CM Pacifier. Love it.

[TheLordMagnus]

this game has become a giant pile of poo doo

 

from day one we asked for this.... this took over 1 year to make and look at it by far the worst dye system i have ever seen in 20 years of gaming

 

my sub runs out in 4 days good bye sick of this crap let the 100 or so white knights play

 

i love star wars but this game has become a bad joke:(

[Anzel]

CM Pacifier. Love it.

 

That's a great idea. To get the pacifier you have to buy... wait for it... gambling packs. The pacifier will take 100 reputation certificates which are ultra rare drops from the packs of course. Also, you have to have "Ultra Hero" status with the Cartel Market to actually use the certificates.

 

Also, the pacifier is single use and binds on pickup. Start saving your money because there's no way EA can run this game on $15,000,000 of your money every single month. Also, your subscription is due.

[branmakmuffin]

this game has become a giant pile of poo doo

The door, as they say, is that way -------------------->

 

But you say you're unsubbed. You'll be back, though.

Edited May 20, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[DarthObelisk]

this game has become a giant pile of poo doo

 

from day one we asked for this.... this took over 1 year to make and look at it by far the worst dye system i have ever seen in 20 years of gaming

 

my sub runs out in 4 days good bye sick of this crap let the 100 or so white knights play

 

i love star wars but this game has become a bad joke:(

 

Sweet one less person i dont have to worry about being before me in the que