Healing IS TOTALLY ouf of control

[Jorojus]

That isn't balance sir, that is tilted in favor of healing and tanking. In all cases dps tanks and heals will all be screwing up and performing badly because there are people playing them.

Healers surviving doesn't mean healers are playing smart and dps isn't (though that frequently happens), it means heals are overtuned. Stop thinking so highly of yourself because a patch that buffed health pool, shielding mechanics, and resource management for healers all in the same patch while keeping dps at roughly the same burst potential and nerfing crit chance as pre-2.0 has suddenly made you able to keep up your entire team.

A perfect balance would be a case where 16 robots are playing against each other and 50% of the time they died and 50% of the time they lived, with crits being the determining factor. Of course, when one guy dies it can lead to others dying, so in the grand scheme of things more people should be dying than living if "balance" truly exists in this game, which is a fact healers and tanks need to live with.

I realize that sounds kind of like "balance = everyone dies" but I'm just giving it to you factually and logically.

In fact, when you think about all the buffs to healing and tanking I listed up there compared to big crits being roughly the same, it makes me wonder how people who are being healed ever die. This makes me think it's actually healers and tanks who are being bad and not dps as you claim. Though I realize this is moving out of the realm of numbers it's still based on facts of changes in 2.0.

 

Hi again Legatus.

 

I must agree with you, healing numbers are higher then dps numbers, you made your point. Healing is way too overpowered, there, I said it.

 

I wonder if it is Biowares intention or not to have it like this ? I don't know. Do you ?

 

I am starting to realize this discussion about balancing out healing/tanking vs dps'ing is pretty pointless ...

What a waste of my time, bah.

 

Anyway, the winning factor in a game is determined by the "people" and how they coordinate their actions together no matter how the mechanics of the game are.

I hope you agree with that one ? No game ends in a tie and after each game everyone should have had their share of fun.

 

Thx alot for sharing your opinion with me .

 

Btw, I don't think very highly of myself, I am only human. We all make mistakes. I do have to admit I sounded like I knew better somewhere in our discussion but I was wrong.

 

I'll "get lost" and hide in my cave again

[Savej]

Anything's easy against a bad team.

 

The definition of "bad team" pre 2.0 was: "one with bad players (and/or ungeared characters)". Now it's: "one without healers and tanks (and/or ungeared characters - bolster hasn't fixed gear imbalances, just made them a little less obvious)".

Edited May 21, 2013 by Savej

[kweassa]

The definition of "bad team" pre 2.0 was: "one with bad players (and/or ungeared characters)". Now it's: "one without healers and tanks (and/or ungeared characters - bolster hasn't fixed gear imbalances, just made them a little less obvious)".

 

Sorry. The definition of a "good team" always included an ideal balance between the numbers of DPS, tanks and healers as a prerequisite. This was true even way back when they didn't even come up with the term "PvP" , or the concept of team/party combat, yet.

 

If any lopsided-team can take on any team they find with no harsh challenge, then who the *BLEEP* would want to play healers or tanks in the first place? Just pick out eight of your favorite all-out, attack-button mashing DPS class and WIN!

[dcgregorya]

Just pick out eight of your favorite all-out, attack-button mashing DPS class and WIN!

 

I don't really understand the healer elitism. Heals and attacks, in terms of 'button mashing', are the exact same other than who you target. It's not any harder to heal than it is to do DPS. I'd argue its actually harder to do DPS because you have to actually pay attention to whom you're attacking and what they're doing rather than just looking at life bars.

[Jorojus]

I don't really understand the healer elitism. Heals and attacks, in terms of 'button mashing', are the exact same other than who you target. It's not any harder to heal than it is to do DPS. I'd argue its actually harder to do DPS because you have to actually pay attention to whom you're attacking and what they're doing rather than just looking at life bars.

 

Hello good sir, I don't really understand the dps elitisism.

 

Healing and tanking are in my opininon way more immersive and rewarding for a player then dps'ing in my opinion. It feels good to help other people.

 

I am saying this after playing almost for a year as dps operative concealment. So I will also admit, DAMN it feels good when that one healer you could never kill, that you see him again in that following warzone, you drip you knife in the acid go into stealth and let the adrenaline guide from that first hit until you finally got him down.

 

Sooooooo satisfying I know.

 

This effect is called "dopamine" btw. Every young gamer got addicted to this playing on the playstation /xbox and playing f.e."shooters" where you only have to "kill" others.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Jorojus

[EnzoForMe]

The only thing that needs to be toned down is scamper. That **** is crazy op in huttball.

[Soxbadger]

I don't really understand the healer elitism. Heals and attacks, in terms of 'button mashing', are the exact same other than who you target. It's not any harder to heal than it is to do DPS. I'd argue its actually harder to do DPS because you have to actually pay attention to whom you're attacking and what they're doing rather than just looking at life bars.

 

Its not about the difficulty of the class, its about the overall team structure. A healer has to be a team player to be effective. They arent going to be death matching, they are going to be trying to help their team. Since they are already focused on teamwork, they are likely focused on objectives, etc. Same with a tank.

 

In my opinion that is what separates good dps v bad dps (whether they are focused on objectives or not). Pretty numbers dont really mean much. Many DPS get a bad name because healers/tanks watch them chase to get kills/dps numbers, instead of staying on the node/door/etc to actually win the match.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Soxbadger

[sirullrich]

"A perfect balance would be a case where 16 robots are playing against each other and 50% of the time they died and 50% of the time they lived"

 

If this was the case the game would be 0-0 in your logic. It's 50-50 right.

[Jorojus]

I just had a civil war, the opposing team had 2 healers. Ours had noone. We won.

 

Healing is OP

[dcgregorya]

Hello good sir, I don't really understand the dps elitisism.

 

Healing and tanking are in my opininon way more immersive and rewarding for a player then dps'ing in my opinion. It feels good to help other people.

 

I am saying this after playing almost for a year as dps operative concealment. So I will also admit, DAMN it feels good when that one healer you could never kill, that you see him again in that following warzone, you drip you knife in the acid go into stealth and let the adrenaline guide from that first hit until you finally got him down.

 

Sooooooo satisfying I know.

 

This effect is called "dopamine" btw. Every young gamer got addicted to this playing on the playstation /xbox and playing f.e."shooters" where you only have to "kill" others.

 

Any class role can help other people. Peeling for instance and playing to the objectives. The comment I'm specifically responding to is in line with what a lot of people believe - which is that "DPS is button mashing XBox players'" whereas healing is not. I'd say its the opposite, when I'm healing, I almost never focus on objectives (other than huttball) because if I stop healing people start dropping. At that point I'm relying on the tanks and DPS to do capping. Healing to me is actually way more "mechanical" than DPS.

[Volxen]

I don't really understand the healer elitism. Heals and attacks, in terms of 'button mashing', are the exact same other than who you target. It's not any harder to heal than it is to do DPS. I'd argue its actually harder to do DPS because you have to actually pay attention to whom you're attacking and what they're doing rather than just looking at life bars.

 

Healing and tanking have always been more challenging than DPSing.

[Jorojus]

Any class role can help other people. Peeling for instance and playing to the objectives. The comment I'm specifically responding to is in line with what a lot of people believe - which is that "DPS is button mashing XBox players'" whereas healing is not. I'd say its the opposite, when I'm healing, I almost never focus on objectives (other than huttball) because if I stop healing people start dropping. At that point I'm relying on the tanks and DPS to do capping. Healing to me is actually way more "mechanical" than DPS.

 

/like

[xxIncubixx]

sooo i just played a warzone there was a smashmonkey that made 1.1k DPS , and a scoundrel healer that made 1400 HPS (SINGLE TARGET) Seems legit?

 

the avarege dps is around 800 on a good warzone while healers can almost double that easily, legit i guess.

Edited May 22, 2013 by xxIncubixx

[ilifus]

I just had a civil war, the opposing team had 2 healers. Ours had noone. We won.

 

Healing is OP

 

Hello /like guy, you just made a judgement from one warzone! I am not sure i want to be a part of this pvp community anymore, cause every single day i see more and more intellectual opinions like yours. Are you troll or just an EA employee in cover?

 

Whatever..

[AlrikFassbauer]

This effect is called "dopamine" btw. Every young gamer got addicted to this playing on the playstation /xbox and playing f.e."shooters" where you only have to "kill" others.

 

It might be adrenaline, too.

 

And yes, it's addictive. Seriously.

It's relatively new in science, but it seems to really be addictive.

[dcgregorya]

Healing and tanking have always been more challenging than DPSing.

 

This isn't PVE - it's not like there's tank swapping in PVP. You can't even pop relics anymore. As a DPS I have to identify targets, their capabilities, counter them ideally and burst down the appropriate people, with the right timing and use of CC, while managing my cooldowns and avoiding incoming damage/attackers within a narrow window because my defenses are weak. As a healer I have to look at life bars and try not to die. As a tank, I bash someone in the face now and then or choke them and spam taunt.

 

Sorry but no, tanking and healing are not more challenging in PVP by any stretch of the imagination unless you're a derp running around spamming smash @ groups and dying 20 times a game.

Edited May 22, 2013 by dcgregorya

[Qaoz]

Most boring Voidstar I ever did was a moment ago. The enemy had three healers and one or two tanks. We could not kill anything in there. I think we managed to kill one of the healers thanks to a series of lucky crits and LOS, but he returned from the respawn area long before we could do any serious harm to the next healer.

 

I'm a fan of the taunt and healing mechanics, but combining them is just too much. A couple of healers with a pocket tank are ridiculous in PvP. You can't kill the tank, because this leaves the healers free to heal him. You can't kill the healers, because tank can AOE taunt and Guard.

 

Warzones that require you to cap nodes to win become horribly boring if one team has two or more healers and a dedicated tank. The tank kills your burst and the healers make the tank invulnerable. Your only chance of capping the node is a well-timed mez, but they've got three CC breakers between them (five if the two healers are Sages/Sorcerers).

 

Balance...

Edited May 22, 2013 by Qaoz

[SpaniardInfinity]

This isn't PVE - it's not like there's tank swapping in PVP. You can't even pop relics anymore. As a DPS I have to identify targets, their capabilities, counter them ideally and burst down the appropriate people, with the right timing and use of CC, while managing my cooldowns and avoiding incoming damage/attackers within a narrow window because my defenses are weak. As a healer I have to look at life bars and try not to die. As a tank, I bash someone in the face now and then or choke them and spam taunt.

 

Sorry but no, tanking and healing are not more challenging in PVP by any stretch of the imagination unless you're a derp running around spamming smash @ groups and dying 20 times a game.

 

"All generalizations are wrong, including this one." DPS, Tanks, and Healers have their own easy classes (easy to pick up and have success with; low skill floor and ceiling) and challenge/niche classes (easy or hard to pick up, universally hard to master; the skill floor may be low or high, but the ceiling is considerably higher). Smash spec is silly easy. After playing Combat Medic for the last year, Sawbones was laughably easy in PvP. Guardian Tank before 2.0 would pitch a tent, make a campfire, and put their feet up near their guardee and be a good damage sponge. The difficulty of damaging and healing depends entirely on how your team matches up against the other. Tanks are also dependent on the opposition, but first and foremost their dependent on their own team's healers.

Edited May 22, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Brunner_Venda]

Tried a healer, here's what I discovered.

 

Playing a healer in a WZ is like dropping the soap in the middle of a prison shower full of inmates. Any good DPS can kill you, usually two are trying at any moment, and all you can do is delay the inevitable by running around and screaming for help like a little girl. I understand you guys now. I really do .

 

A guarded healer is only slightly over the top. Two DPS focusing you usually can't kill you because your invincible guard is busy killing and CCing them. Maybe 50% damage reduction is a TAD high, but sometimes I still died in that 2v2. Tough call.

 

Two cross healing guarded healers is almost always a face roll unless the other side has the same. THIS is what everyone is complaining about.

 

Any ideas on how to fix the third scenario?

[j-cart]

 

Two cross healing guarded healers is almost always a face roll unless the other side has the same. THIS is what everyone is complaining about.

 

Any ideas on how to fix the third scenario?

 

 

Gonna let you in on a big secret, just harass the healers. No need to kill them, just force push them out of the fight or pull them into your fighting area. Line of sight is our biggest weakness, learn to abuse that.

[Pigvomit]

This isn't PVE - it's not like there's tank swapping in PVP. You can't even pop relics anymore. As a DPS I have to identify targets, their capabilities, counter them ideally and burst down the appropriate people, with the right timing and use of CC, while managing my cooldowns and avoiding incoming damage/attackers within a narrow window because my defenses are weak. As a healer I have to look at life bars and try not to die. As a tank, I bash someone in the face now and then or choke them and spam taunt.

 

Sorry but no, tanking and healing are not more challenging in PVP by any stretch of the imagination unless you're a derp running around spamming smash @ groups and dying 20 times a game.

 

 

If only healing was that mundane. lmao

Any competent damage dealer can make things tough for a healer in warzones. If you have any insight on how to actually play your class then you can either A) kill him or B) put enough pressure on him so that others start dying .

Here's a piece of information that can and will help you kill healers/tanks in wzs.....learn their class. ( I.E Which abilities to interrupt, defensive cool downs, ect...ect.. )

 

This thread has so much fail in it.

[Qaoz]

Operative/Scoundrel sustainability while moving/pressured is pretty silly.

[Altheran]

I think the problem of this game and healing is : too much single-target healing, too few multiple target healing.

 

If 2 healers, by using mostly single target healing abilities like they are now, are supposed to give enough healing against 4+ DPS ("4+" because 4 DPS plus 2 tanks or 5 DPS and 1 Tank), that's obvious they will be able to easily outheal the pressure done on them by one DPS or two without having to rely especially on tanks.

In a case in which we consider that they can provide "only" 300% of a DPS' output together on the same target, in order to take down someone in their team, if they're coordinated and have a tank also coordinated who ease their task, the ennemy team will need to put all their DPS on it (they're not supposed to have more than 4 of them). Add a third healer, and the result is obvious : at most all the DPS focus fire one healer, if they succed to shut him, the two other healers and the tank will still be able to keep him almost alive. If the focused healer throws one or two heals, he's sure to survive.

 

If they were to rely much more on group-wise abilities, they could help the group as much as before if not more against unorganized groups, without being able to grant immortality to the target that multiple healers focus, reducing a lot the interest of having 3 or more healers, and moreover they would not be able anymore to take the tanks' title of "the hardest one to kill" and not being able anymore to easily take down people slowly in 1vs1 fights as they do now. They will still be able to win against tanks because of their low DPS, but they will be in danger left alone against a DPS.

Tanks may even be back at their place of "must have" to protect and help healers by easing their job. At the moment, Tanks are disposable, they're oftenly left at node guarding because they're not really needed in the fight, and this is the only area left to make use of their better survivability (their protection isn't really needed, and they're only holding back the team's offense potential).

 

Like I said in another thread some time ago, if healers were to be group/area focused and be able to consistantly give 50% of a DPS's output to everyone at range at the same time, and using single abilities on top of that, increasing their output up to 75% of a DPS' output on their main target, which are low numbers because they would loose all their 1vs1 against whatever DPS, this is what would happen :

- having one of them would still be better than having none.

- if you have one healer, if the ennemy team not organized (each one attacking one different target), you cannot loose unless the team has a healer that can heal more than you or a second healer

- Having two would be safer than one in order to handle focuses better.

- If you have two healers, if the ennemy team is not organized, then you can't loose whatever the ennemy team is composed of. Only focus fire can take down a member of the group.

- In the case of having two healers, in order to take down someone with the support from these two healers (full potential on him) and one tank, you would need 3+ DPS (because the tank would barely have to care about Guard's damage) which is an important part considering there will likely be only 6 or 7 ennemies at a time, and only 3-4 DPS in them.

- Having three healers can be detrimental because the loss of DPS starts to be huge. You may not have enough people to focus down a player from a team who have 2 healers (you'd have only at most, 3-4 DPS with you, see point above) while they still have a slight chance to bring down one of you. Sound a bit like how it is now, but that does not provide a mathematical "can't loose" situation.

 

But that was only a demonstration. The main idea is that must lower the single-target healing of healers, so that they can't counter focus fire so easily (there is not supposed to have so many DPS in a WZ group) and survive too easily without any help, and it must be balanced with more group healing so that their utility remain unchanged and so that it punishes the lack of focus fire in the ennemy team.

The problem is that it would need a rebalancing in PvE as well, healers may not be able the keep the tank alive, while unnecessarily outhealing the by-standing ones... That is if they keep tanks as they are now.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Altheran

[spectreclees]

Ops/Scouns are impossible to kill if the person is a skilled player. Too many escapes and powerful healing.

[kweassa]

I chased around an enemy op healing himself to invincibility.

 

Guess what. He didn't have any time to heal someone else = WIN

 

...

 

The moral of the story? Stop using healers as an excuse to one's pitiful teamwork.

 

Fought against all sorts of teams with any number of healers ranging from none to five. Won a few, lost a few. That's PvP.

 

If you can't win any, then you, and your team's got issues.