Jedi Knight Story (Spoilers)

[DariusSavog]

Hey guys just wandering what your thoughts are after ending of the Jedi Knight story that simple

[SW_display_name]

My thoughts — which will be extremely unpopular here — were: That was ludicrous, and the writers of the JK arc lack storytelling tact, subtlety, and self-control.

 

It felt like watching one of the prequel Star Wars films. Good in that yes, this captured that Lucas-esque Star Wars feel. Bad in that no, this really isn't a very good story, once all the glitzy flashy over-the-top popcorn gimmicks fade out.

 

JK is really the only story I've seen so far that I truly dislike. And I didn't dislike it while playing through it, because it was like watching a summer action move; in the moment, you're caught up in all the flash and action. Instead, I've come to dislike it afterwards, looking back at it, reflecting on how chunky and ham-fisted it is and seeing the contrast with plots that have a lot more subtlety, depth, self-control within the wider context of the story (killing the Emperor solo? Seriously?).

 

At least it was entertaining, though. Stupid, but entertaining.

[YoshiRaphElan]

I'm pretty sure the above poster is in a vast minority. I've never heard anyone else say they dislike the Knight story, IMO it is the best (working on Agent, though, so may be proven wrong). There is literally nothing wrong with the JK story. It is a classic Star Wars tale, where you are basically the "Luke Skywalker" of the story. It's really fun and the story makes more sense than most of the Prequels.

[Ekas]

I've only completed 2 stories so far (Knight and Consular), and of the two, I very much prefer the Knight's story. In fact, I enjoyed it a great deal. I confronted the big bad, saved the day, got the girl, all while swinging a lightsaber, and that's exactly what I signed up to a story driven Star Wars game for.

 

My only problem with the story was that at around the end of chapter 2, I was forced to

 

FALL TO THE FRICKIN DARKSIDE

 

which I didn't want to. That disappointed me a bit.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Ekas

[Jenzali]

Overall the Jedi Knight story was an enjoyable swashbuckling hero (or anti-hero) tale, but it lacked the depth, mystery, diplomacy, and Jedi lore that was to be found in the Consular's storyline.

 

For these reasons the Jedi Knight is also somewhat unconvincing as a pure light-side character, considering that it's modeled after Luke (who courted the dark side in order to defeat Vader and indirectly the Emperor) and Anakin (who fell to the dark side, obviously). A Jedi isn't someone who seeks out enemy after enemy. That's what a Dark Jedi does. The Consular's story was much further in line with Jedi teachings.

 

IMO the "canon" Jedi Knight, if a canon is ever established, will probably be somewhat dark-side because

 

The Agent storyline's finale confirms Tol Braga is dead, which can only be achieved by choosing the dark-side option

 

and honestly the act of "asking the Emperor to surrender return with you to Tython" in the finale is nothing short of ridiculous. It only makes sense to defeat the Emperor by calling on the dark side, otherwise any of the other masters should have been able to defeat him.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Jenzali

[lanawinst]

II confronted the big bad, saved the day, got the girl, all while swinging a lightsaber, and that's exactly what I signed up to a story driven Star Wars game for.

 

And that's exactly why I got bored playing hero and moved on to another story . Too simplistic, too much focus on action for me. So the answer would be that it depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for the same thing as Ekas is, you won't be disappointed. If you're like me and prefer clever stories, full of grey areas and twists go for the agent story.

[dark_wolf]

I'm going to join camp "it was boring and silly." I really wasn't all that well-written.. It was fun when I was playing it, but , but even then I thought "this is really silly and the JK is too powerful." I'm sorry, but a single Jedi Knight with less than a decade of experience should not be able to defeat someone who has lived and ruled for centuries. Luckily, I played the Sith Warrior story first which was much better and:

 

 

showed that the Jedi Knight failed and that the Emperor's spirit simply took a new body. So, yeah, all hail the Emperor!

 

Edited May 15, 2013 by dark_wolf

[Darth_Wicked]

I'm going to join camp "it was boring and silly." I really wasn't all that well-written.. It was fun when I was playing it, but , but even then I thought "this is really silly and the JK is too powerful." I'm sorry, but a single Jedi Knight with less than a decade of experience should not be able to defeat someone who has lived and ruled for centuries. Luckily, I played the Sith Warrior story first which was much better and:

 

 

showed that the Jedi Knight failed and that the Emperor's spirit simply took a new body. So, yeah, all hail the Emperor!

 

I'll assume you have the same issue with Luke on the original trilogy, given the kind of stuff he does and the complete lack of experience as a Jedi Knight. One can easily assume that the JK was trained in the ways of the Jedi, from early on, unlike Luke, who was already a young adult.

 

Double standards FTW.

[psandak]

Classic high fantasy, good vs evil story where good eventually triumphs. Very much "Star Wars."

[Khasur]

I'm going to join camp "it was boring and silly." I really wasn't all that well-written.. It was fun when I was playing it, but , but even then I thought "this is really silly and the JK is too powerful." I'm sorry, but a single Jedi Knight with less than a decade of experience should not be able to defeat someone who has lived and ruled for centuries.

 

You can explain it as the Jedi Knight has tons of natural talent and is constantly training while the emperor may be alive for centuries but sits on his a** for most of that time. That may not work for you but it does for me. I like clever stories with twists but I also enjoy stories where I'm the baddest mother****** around.

 

For these reasons the Jedi Knight is also somewhat unconvincing as a pure light-side character, considering that it's modeled after Luke (who courted the dark side in order to defeat Vader and indirectly the Emperor) and Anakin (who fell to the dark side, obviously). A Jedi isn't someone who seeks out enemy after enemy. That's what a Dark Jedi does. The Consular's story was much further in line with Jedi teachings.

 

I say good because a lot of the Jedi's teachings irritate me and are too good for me. I don't want to be pure light side. And as far as what Ekas said,

 

it was mind control so it's not like the Jedi Knight is actually evil

and also it made the story more interesting. My favorite part was in the last fight

when the emperor said that the Jedi Knight won't kill him because of his teachings and if you choose dark side, the Knight tells him its the last time he'll be underestimated and just destroys him

So basically, I really liked the Jedi Knight story.

[Bytemite]

Overall the Jedi Knight story was an enjoyable swashbuckling hero (or anti-hero) tale, but it lacked the depth, mystery, diplomacy, and Jedi lore that was to be found in the Consular's storyline.

 

For these reasons the Jedi Knight is also somewhat unconvincing as a pure light-side character, considering that it's modeled after Luke (who courted the dark side in order to defeat Vader and indirectly the Emperor) and Anakin (who fell to the dark side, obviously). A Jedi isn't someone who seeks out enemy after enemy. That's what a Dark Jedi does. The Consular's story was much further in line with Jedi teachings.

 

IMO the "canon" Jedi Knight, if a canon is ever established, will probably be somewhat dark-side because

 

The Agent storyline's finale confirms Tol Braga is dead, which can only be achieved by choosing the dark-side option

 

and honestly the act of "asking the Emperor to surrender return with you to Tython" in the finale is nothing short of ridiculous. It only makes sense to defeat the Emperor by calling on the dark side, otherwise any of the other masters should have been able to defeat him.

 

Well the lightside explanation of the last one is because you're honoring Tol Braga's original plan. Makes sense to me. And you're kinda the only person besides Kira who can resist long enough to fight, mostly because an aspect of the light side of the force is intervening on your behalf.

 

Interesting about the agent reveal... I should look into that. Could be other explanations beyond darkside though. Like that whole question about the emperor thing that also gets brought up. Maybe the Empire just doesn't have any better explanation or don't want to admit to losing ground.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Bytemite

[SW_display_name]

I'll assume you have the same issue with Luke on the original trilogy, given the kind of stuff he does and the complete lack of experience as a Jedi Knight. One can easily assume that the JK was trained in the ways of the Jedi, from early on, unlike Luke, who was already a young adult.

 

Double standards FTW.

Luke really doesn't do anything that impressive in the Trilogy. It's minor Force mysticism at best most of the time, it just seems super-impressive because within the context of the original movies, no one else is doing anything with the Force.

 

The JK character is 100% ludicrous in the same vein as Anakin The Chosen One, blessed by Plot Magic™ to just do whatever the writers need it to and auto-escalate its power level to compensate. But at least Anakin is a rather complex character with a lot of details going on; the JK is a plastic Jedi action figure that says silly things when you pull the cord on its back.

[ekimmak]

killing the Emperor solo? Seriously

 

You didn't beat him solo, you had a droid! No one can beat a jedi with an astromech!.

 

Ok, more seriously, yes. The appeal for the knight storyline is in raw awesomeness, not a complex and engaging plot. But I think most people are ok with that.

[YoshiRaphElan]

IMO the "canon" Jedi Knight, if a canon is ever established, will probably be somewhat dark-side because

 

The Agent storyline's finale confirms Tol Braga is dead, which can only be achieved by choosing the dark-side option

 

Umm, I don't think so. Can you provide an exact quote?

[Jenzali]

Umm, I don't think so. Can you provide an exact quote?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BUkO1UbdWQ

 

15:25

[SithKoriandr]

End of Chapter 2 was just AWESOME! End of Chapter 3 was AWESOME!

 

However, much like display name, I have a problem with the JK defeating the Emperor solo. Not that the JK did it, but because then what? You're facing far less dangerous Sith in FPs but for some reason need a team?

 

You just beat the Emperor who is supposed to be ALL THAT and then fail against some no name Sith if you go it alone?

 

The story is fun, just doesn't play well within the context of the rest of the game. And regardless of what happened, you still defeated the Emperor So he force ghosts into some other body, you still beat him. You might as well say any force user who becomes a force ghost was never beaten, because they found a way to live on past death.

[SW_display_name]

The story is fun, just doesn't play well within the context of the rest of the game.

That's my feeling. It feels like it's written for a Star Wars "solo" game, like a console platformer or maybe another KOTOR — but not written responsibly for a world where you have to share your accomplishments and storyline with thousands of other players and 7 other classes, 4 who are on the opposite faction you just single-handedly destroyed, and who are also supposed to feel significant.

 

IMO the writers severely lacked self-control with this one. It is definitely entertaining in a dumb special-effects action movie way, but it also feels irresponsible to me and doesn't "age" well. To use Hitchcock language, it's a very "icebox scene" story.

 

I am not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying it, nor intending to insult anyone who loves the JK plot. The story is legitimately appealing for many reasons. I just don't personally think it's a very good story once you add up all the pieces and look at it as a whole.

[Quellryloth]

That's my feeling. It feels like it's written for a Star Wars "solo" game, like a console platformer or maybe another KOTOR — but not written responsibly for a world where you have to share your accomplishments and storyline with thousands of other players and 7 other classes, 4 who are on the opposite faction you just single-handedly destroyed, and who are also supposed to feel significant.

I disagree. One of the nice things about having 8 distinct storylines in one game is that it allows them to be quite different. The Jedi Knight is the archetypal hero described by Joseph Campbell in the form almost certainly inspired by Luke Skywalker. The Imperial Agent is a variation on the theme of James Bond. The Sith Warrior is the Star Wars version of a mafia enforcer story. The Jedi Consular is a story about the relationships between Jedi masters and apprentices. I haven't finished the others yet, but the Sith Inquisitor appears to be a sort of Indiana Jones type. Having the Campbellian hero around doesn't make all of the other storylines insignificant; they just have a different scope (and not even that different -- galaxy-changing outcomes seem to be shoehorned into every class story).

[SithKoriandr]

I disagree. One of the nice things about having 8 distinct storylines in one game is that it allows them to be quite different. The Jedi Knight is the archetypal hero described by Joseph Campbell in the form almost certainly inspired by Luke Skywalker. The Imperial Agent is a variation on the theme of James Bond. The Sith Warrior is the Star Wars version of a mafia enforcer story. The Jedi Consular is a story about the relationships between Jedi masters and apprentices. I haven't finished the others yet, but the Sith Inquisitor appears to be a sort of Indiana Jones type. Having the Campbellian hero around doesn't make all of the other storylines insignificant; they just have a different scope (and not even that different -- galaxy-changing outcomes seem to be shoehorned into every class story).

 

Yes, but Emperor is the most powerful being in the universe, and the JK beat him solo, then goes on to have to take on other weaker Sith but can't do it on their own.

[BrianDavion]

the JK storyline isa classic star wars tale. where the hero rises from his lowly orgins to single handedly save the galaxy etc

[dark_wolf]

I'll assume you have the same issue with Luke on the original trilogy, given the kind of stuff he does and the complete lack of experience as a Jedi Knight. One can easily assume that the JK was trained in the ways of the Jedi, from early on, unlike Luke, who was already a young adult.

 

Double standards FTW.

The situations are very different. The JK defeated the Emperor in a straight up battle. Luke convinced his father to betray the Darth Sidious while he was distracted throwing lightning at Luke. If Luke had tried the JK's tactic of a straight attack, he would have died.

[Darth_Wicked]

The situations are very different. The JK defeated the Emperor in a straight up battle. Luke convinced his father to betray the Darth Sidious while he was distracted throwing lightning at Luke. If Luke had tried the JK's tactic of a straight attack, he would have died.

 

The JK didn't defeat the emperor but rather...

 

His Voice.

 

Not to mention the fact that he was weakened.

 

- - - -

 

Either way, for me, it's by far the best storyline in the all game. All comes together in the end and what comes to happen is implied from early on, instead of being nothing more than a random assortment of characters and plot threads, that are pursued during one single act and then completely discarded, once you begin a new one.

[SW_display_name]

The JK didn't defeat the emperor but rather...

 

His Voice.

 

Not to mention the fact that he was weakened.

Are we (as a community) actually sure about this? I've seen multiple threads thrashing back-and-forth on this topic, with a lot of people arguing that yes, you killed the Emperor for all intents and purposes.

 

All comes together in the end and what comes to happen is implied from early on, instead of being nothing more than a random assortment of characters and plot threads, that are pursued during one single act and then completely discarded, once you begin a new one.

The BH plot follows this same idea. What you do during the Great Hunt for sport ends up having directly-cascading consequences that last straight through the end of chapter 3.

 

Smuggler is pretty much a "FULL STOP. CHANGE HEADING." at chapter 2, I agree, but everything that happens in chapter 2 is pretty much a direct set-up for the fall-out that occurs in chapter 3. And you can argue that parts of Smuggler 2 & 3 are foreshadowed right at the beginning of the Prologue and hinted throughout the build-up.

 

Inquisitor ... is terrible, but most of the elements are laid in place during chapter 1. While the plot is tedious and bland, everything that happens "makes sense" as continuing on from the events of the Prologue / chapter 1, and it's actually very cohesive.

 

I agree that the Consular plot is basically "Look! Random things!", though. It's more of a thematic story (peace and unification), rather than a cohesive story.

 

So, I don't see JK as being advantaged that much in regards to cohesiveness / overall arc. And really, Jedi Knight chapter 1 is just a big "YOU ARE AMAZING" joy ride with no serious effects on the later plot other than introducing a few characters and concepts. That's pretty much on-par with many other chapter 1's.

Edited May 16, 2013 by SW_display_name

[SithKoriandr]

Are we (as a community) actually sure about this? I've seen multiple threads thrashing back-and-forth on this topic, with a lot of people arguing that yes, you killed the Emperor for all intents and purposes.

 

The BH plot follows this same idea. What you do during the Great Hunt for sport ends up having directly-cascading consequences that last straight through the end of chapter 3.

 

Smuggler is pretty much a "FULL STOP. CHANGE HEADING." at chapter 2, I agree, but everything that happens in chapter 2 is pretty much a direct set-up for the fall-out that occurs in chapter 3. And you can argue that parts of Smuggler 2 & 3 are foreshadowed right at the beginning of the Prologue and hinted throughout the build-up.

 

Inquisitor ... is terrible, but most of the elements are laid in place during chapter 1. While the plot is tedious and bland, everything that happens "makes sense" as continuing on from the events of the Prologue / chapter 1, and it's actually very cohesive.

 

I agree that the Consular plot is basically "Look! Random things!", though. It's more of a thematic story (peace and unification), rather than a cohesive story.

 

So, I don't see JK as being advantaged that much in regards to cohesiveness / overall arc. And really, Jedi Knight chapter 1 is just a big "YOU ARE AMAZING" joy ride with no serious effects on the later plot other than introducing a few characters and concepts. That's pretty much on-par with many other chapter 1's.

 

How I read it (with JK and SW storylines in thought), was the JK does defeat the Emperor, but like how the Jedi become Force Ghosts, the Emperor's soul goes onto a new body. So while you kill the Emperor, he has his own force abilities to keep on going.

[maxetius]

How I read it (with JK and SW storylines in thought), was the JK does defeat the Emperor, but like how the Jedi become Force Ghosts, the Emperor's soul goes onto a new body. So while you kill the Emperor, he has his own force abilities to keep on going.

 

Makeb heavily implied that the Emperor is a bodiless ghost now, since he has had voices destroyed before [the SW destroys one in fact] and yet is never taken out of commission as brutally as when the JK kills him.

 

It'd be fun to see the SI eat him/purify him due to his special connection with ghosts, but with the death of class stories it's all speculation anyway.