Is this the most casual friendly MMO of all time?

[Kohloga]

Dec 2011. Move along

 

 

I do nott like these comments lol, mainly because I had to create a new account to play as the one I have had since 2008?? Maybe 09 would not let me redeem codes or answer the sec questions and BW has yet to get back. I am probably in the minority thou lol.

 

Don't just assume anyone who created an account in the last few months is a troll :)

[BBQpizza]

The minute spreadsheets and theory crafting arrived on the scene in WoW, I was gone... Good-fooking-luck.

 

I had a guildy in EQ that would make animated powerpoints to show us how a boss fight would go.

[Norfair]

And you know... I don't hate hardcore or competitive players. Nor do I hate the avid spreadheet/min-max/number cruncher types. If it's what they enjoy, more power to them... But what I do hate, is people who act superior. It's not the elite, it's the elitist attitude that riles me up.

 

Yeah, that's true. If they enjoy it - kudos - but don't drag the rest of us into it. The OP really gave a whiff of "Hey, we want this game to be more hardcore so make it so Bioware" - Like the only people that matter are the Raid Culture crowd ect...

 

TOR is perfect for me. It allows me to come online for an hour or two and enjoy myself. Long gone are the days for me where I could (or indeed would want to anymore) play for 12+ hours a day. Like it or not guys, the casual demographics is going to be a huge part of the MMO from now one.

[sanzuu]

a) i dont remember

b) it had no BG's or any type of honor, rank, nor gear rewards from or for pvp

 

My vote for most casual friendly game would be Rift. I never needed to group in that game as I leveled up, and most of the time I didn't. On my dps I had 1 macro that could do my rotation, and when healing I would only need 2 buttons.

 

What WoW had or didn't have in 2004 is irrelevant. This is a game released nearly a decade later, in pretty much 2012. Infact, your reasoning does nothing but hurt the integrity of the game if you think about it... Bioware have had 8 years to watch WoW and its development, and despite having taken most of their game from WoW, they've failed to take what players now expect as a standard in MMO's. ****, a combat log has been expected long before even WoW. The 'WoW didn't launch with X' argument has no logical basis whatsoever. Sure, WoW didn't launch with X, but that was a long time ago.

 

You shouldn't be using a 2004 release as the basis on which to judge a 2012 game. If you're doing that, then your game is poor, and stale.

 

SWTOR should be blowing WoWs 2004 release out of the water, it truly is a testament to how lacking this game is that people are comparing it to an 8 year old release.

[Kohloga]

What WoW had or didn't have in 2004 is irrelevant. This is a game released nearly a decade later, in pretty much 2012. Infact, your reasoning does nothing but hurt the integrity of the game if you think about it... Bioware have had 8 years to watch WoW and its development, and despite having taken most of their game from WoW, they've failed to take what players now expect as a standard in MMO's. ****, a combat log has been expected long before even WoW. The 'WoW didn't launch with X' argument has no logical basis whatsoever. Sure, WoW didn't launch with X, but that was a long time ago.

 

You shouldn't be using a 2004 release as the basis on which to judge a 2012 game. If you're doing that, then your game is poor, and stale.

 

SWTOR should be blowing WoWs 2004 release out of the water, it truly is a testament to how lacking this game is that people are comparing it to an 8 year old release.

 

2011 just saying

[Lawngnome]

I have nothing against "elitist" content in a game, as long as that same content is available and accessible through other means as well. High-end gear being rewarded faster and in larger quantities to better players is perfectly fine; requiring that high-end gear in order to even have any hope of finishing a damn instance is not. Good gear and *shudder* add-ons should be there to make things easier, not a bloody necessity to play.

 

Worse still is "optimizing" class design based primarily on the needs of hardcore PvP. Again, if said hardcore players want to compete against one another without having to worry about casual peeps who don't know the difference between... uh... I don't know, dodge and parry, that's fine... but make those hard-and-fast rules a separate option for HC players to pick, while the others can still enjoy learning by doing and making mistakes along the way and still get the same sense of accomplishment their own way.

[karcyon]

Because I can already sense that your a WoW troll...

 

a) WoW did not support addons at launch

b) never mind a combat log, WoW had no PvP at launch

 

Stop with this nonsense already! Does this mean every game has to be like WoW 5 years ago? Really? Cut the 'go back to wow' speech for once and think about what you'r writing people! Geee! It's getting old!

[MajorJ]

This is my first MMO, and I think it is for many people who loved the original SW KotOR. So yes, I'm a casual player. And I think this is a perfect game to introduce my kind of people to MMO's.

 

So they've got the basics covered and it is easy to roll into. As soon as people become more accustomed to MMO's they probably will start expanding on it.

[archifikoss]

Yeah, that's true. If they enjoy it - kudos - but don't drag the rest of us into it. The OP really gave a whiff of "Hey, we want this game to be more hardcore so make it so Bioware" - Like the only people that matter are the Raid Culture crowd ect...

 

TOR is perfect for me. It allows me to come online for an hour or two and enjoy myself. Long gone are the days for me where I could (or indeed would want to anymore) play for 12+ hours a day. Like it or not guys, the casual demographics is going to be a huge part of the MMO from now one.

 

I'm loving the game too, in fact it has got me playing more than I expected... But yeah I too don't have the time nor the urge to devote myself to hardcore play. But I do want to see a healthy community, and posts like the OP is not helping in that respect...

[Reddum]

I think it is.

 

I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums.

 

Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's?

 

I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill.

 

Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar.

 

You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

 

I certainly hope so! Most so-called "hardcores" are actually pretty bad, with the only difference from the casuals being that they THINK they're all that good and are rude, while they are getting carried or are just average. I'd rather carry a nice casual than have a rude "hardcore" that is the best player possible, not that it matters, as most "hardcore" aren't that good.

 

BTW: It's not a large potential userbase, it's more like the minority, even in WoW, which seems to be your favorite. Specially so with a Star Wars theme... And I'd like to think that's so because Star Wars fans tend to be more mature.

[PsySHOK]

Obvious console port is obvious:rolleyes:

[Yfelsung]

The minute spreadsheets and theory crafting arrived on the scene in WoW, I was gone... Good-fooking-luck.

 

You never needed an spreadsheet in WoW, it just helped to maximize your potential.

 

You could use a spreadsheet in any game, no matter how casual, to maximize your potential.

 

I could design a spreadsheet that would maximize my potential in bloody tic-tac-toe.

[Webstravaganza]

Hey everyone this guy knows his business cause he used the word scrubs.

[spicycookie]

Unfortunately you do have to use 2004 WOW as a basis because every game starts out light with a base theme and build on it.

 

Do you really think it is wise for games to share all their marbles at launch? The MMO will just get old in 2 months.

 

Get serious!!!

 

What WoW had or didn't have in 2004 is irrelevant. This is a game released nearly a decade later, in pretty much 2012. Infact, your reasoning does nothing but hurt the integrity of the game if you think about it... Bioware have had 8 years to watch WoW and its development, and despite having taken most of their game from WoW, they've failed to take what players now expect as a standard in MMO's. ****, a combat log has been expected long before even WoW. The 'WoW didn't launch with X' argument has no logical basis whatsoever. Sure, WoW didn't launch with X, but that was a long time ago.

 

You shouldn't be using a 2004 release as the basis on which to judge a 2012 game. If you're doing that, then your game is poor, and stale.

 

SWTOR should be blowing WoWs 2004 release out of the water, it truly is a testament to how lacking this game is that people are comparing it to an 8 year old release.

[Celestry]

I love how people rage against casual games. WoW did so well because it was relatively casual and brought in alot of new gamers, especially for the MMO market. Then we look at the sub levels for the so-called hardcore games, and they are a fraction of the more casual games. The game companies want both markets in reality, but targeting hardcore people only has not lead to massive subscription bases for those games.

[Corwingeorge]

I think it is.

 

I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums.

 

Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's?

 

I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill.

 

Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar.

 

You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

 

agree

[Insomune]

Anyone else notice that nearly every complaint thread is made by a Dec 2011'er?

 

Curious.

 

Disagree with 90% of what the OP claims.

 

Merry Xmas regardless.

 

I know right? Ahh what does that tell us? They are just stopping by like every other new game on release date and hot-damn I can't wait til' their gone, onto the next one to troll.

 

So sad it's funny. This guy didn't even make it to 50 and people on the forums are agreeing with him... Where has the intelligence gone?

 

And Flytext isn't good enough for you or do you not pay attention to your battles because you're always on auto-attack? Or because your MACROS do all the work and you do nothing, then afterwards want to examine the log to determine which macro you have to change, eh champ? Stay classy, yo.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Insomune

[gEddeh]

For christ's sake man, the game is only 5 days old.

[nocturnalgamer]

I'm so sick of these so called "elite" gamers whining and crying. The only reason I even open the thread is because I thought it was going to be a positive one. I've played a few mmos before this swg coh wow dcuo and so far this is by far my favorite. I hope BW never caters to the "elite" they are what ruined every other mmo for me. The best thing to do is just ignore them and hopefully they will go away

 

Only reason why I'm posting is I'm at work with nothing to do

[sanzuu]

I'm so sick of these so called "elite" gamers whining and crying. The only reason I even open the thread is because I thought it was going to be a positive one. I've played a few mmos before this swg coh wow dcuo and so far this is by far my favorite. I hope BW never caters to the "elite" they are what ruined every other mmo for me. The best thing to do is just ignore them and hopefully they will go away

 

Only reason why I'm posting is I'm at work with nothing to do

 

To be honest man, it sounds like your problem is that you are bad. 'Elite' only means good.

[Lawngnome]

And good means above average. Being good doesn't mean you're meeting requirements, it means you're exceeding them, and that by definition cannot be a measure of what's necessary to accomplish.

[Jemshank]

And you know... I don't hate hardcore or competitive players. Nor do I hate the avid spreadheet/min-max/number cruncher types. If it's what they enjoy, more power to them... But what I do hate, is people who act superior. It's not the elite, it's the elitist attitude that riles me up.

 

My feelings exactly. I'm a pretty competitive person, and I like to excel at games. But the elitists are just terrible, they ruin the game for so many people.

 

It's sad that we live in a world where it is becoming increasingly unacceptable to discriminate against others due to race, creed, etc etc., and yet so many people still think its okay to degrade and bully others over a video game. Bullying of any kind is sad and shameful; bullying over a video game is downright pathetic.

 

The way I see it, if you're better then someone at something, you can either be a dick about it, or you can be humble and kind, and maybe even help them get better and make a friend out of it. Not to mention strengthening whatever hobby it is you and your formerly incompetent new friend partake in.

 

I would also like to add, I've loved the community of this game so far; I've seen a few jerks but most people have been very kind. I hope it stays that way.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Jemshank

[Eriadni]

To be honest man, it sounds like your problem is that you are bad. 'Elite' only means good.

 

And this comment further makes look foolish.

 

By the way you do know that GW2's PVP system is NOT gear based like your beloved WoW? PvP combat will be ENTIRELY skill based since all gear is normalized in PvP zones.

[Erevan_Kindelar]

I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life...

Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's?

I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill.

Why keep out such a large potential userbase?...

You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

 

First off, I have edited the OP to prevent this being the original wall of text, not because I want to try and distort the message.

It is a fact that most of the people who are interested in SWTOR and who have been waiting and following it for years are also fans of the Star Wars universe. Maybe not fanatical, for the most part, but fans all the same.

With that in mind, are you surprised that a post trashing the game without any constructive criticism is met with hostility (and by this comment I am referring to both your openning and closing comments)? There are many more reasonned posts than this which have received the flame grilled treatment because they bring general criticism without any attempt to suggest a way forward.

Yes, a lot of the tools that a "hardcore" PvE/PvP player has become accustomed to from other games are not in SWTOR. But guess what? The playing field is level, because no-one has those tools, so while you cannot use a macro to manage your rotation or a DPS meter to measure your performance, neither can your opponent.

Bioware took a decision to spend their pre-release development time on other areas of the game. You do not have to like it, but you are playing in their garden so you DO have to either put up with it or play somewhere else.

Yes, the game is geared more toward the casual gamer than to the e-sports enthusiast. While in your post you seem to imply that both the hardcore e-sportsman and the casual gamer are large fanbases (but that the e-sportsman is more intelligent, which I would have to disagree with), you seem to think that the e-sportsman deserves more attention. I would have to disagree - the casuals will bring in more revenue to the game, meaning more opportunity for Bioware to do more with the game, or EA to treat it as a cash cow.

 

If you are looking for a game that, on launch, will be a hardcore PvP/Pve Raiding player's paradise, you will not find it here. Choosing to compare this game to WoW will inevitably result in disappointment and flames, because the two have different design goals and are at different ends of the maturity scale.

 

I will not say that, as a hardcore PvP/PvE raider you need to go back to WoW, but it is a fact that there is more endgame content there than in SWTOR. WoW tries to get you from 1 to 80 in record time so you will partake of the endgame. SWTOR wants you to spend more time getting there, because for Bioware the storytelling on the journey is as much fun as arriving at the destination.

[BriaBres]

If you don't like the game, than don't play. It's the hard-core pvpers that killed SWG with the NGE. And the idiot management team that listened to the minority, yes that's right, minority and dumbed down the game from a thinking game, to a button masher. And the calls to constantly balance. If the devs had spent half the time putting in story content that they did trying to appease the pvp crowd, SWG could have had a hell of a lot more content, the biggest thing it was lacking.

 

This game requires thought, it uses dice rolling instead of FPS style combat. It's also more team oriented. The more rounded out your team is, the better your results.

 

Is the game perfect? No, it can use some tweaks. But BW was never secretive in that this game was going to be story driven, not combat driven. Those of us that understand that, love it.

 

Does it need some tweaks? Yeah, sure it does. For me space combat is rather dull and restrictive. The UI could use more personalization options. But the core is great.

 

As far as macroes, god I hope they never put them in. AFK play and having 90 moves qued to one button, and button mashing is the worst kind of playstyle there is.

Edited December 21, 2011 by BriaBres