Guild Wars 2 will be the only game that can compete for WoWs quality. Notice I said quality, numbers alone don't mean ****. Look at Maple Story, that has *********** 92 million players last time I looked.

To me it seems like a WoW clone in a shiny Star Wars suit. It does nothing new or innovative for either the MMO or RPG market and feels rushed and incomplete, no doubt because the direct earthly equivalent of the Sith Empire, EA, wanted it for Xmas release. Honestly, I don't see what this game brings to the MMO table. Its even missing key features that most think are staples in MMO's these days, such as; PvP, Mods, combat log, social interaction, I'm sure you could list your own grievances. But I guess that's fine because its OK to leave out all these things because the massive IP star wars will bring in a lot of people not used to playing MMO's, so they won't notice or complain. Less coding MOAR voice acting! B, b, buut it's only just been released, WoW had problems on release! (right?) Sure! WoW had a great deal of bugs and whatnot on release, but even so, people could see that this was a game that was refreshing and ground breaking for the time. What Blizzard did is take the EQ2 formula, refine it, and create a world and game that's been industry defining. It wasn't the first MMO at all, it just seems like it because when it was released the competition was crushed under its innovation and quality. DaoC/EQ1/2 (2001, 1999, 2004) looked centuries old in comparison to (2004) WoW. Unfortunately, (2011, nearly 12) SWTOR doesn't have **** on old (2004) WoW. They could probably even get away with it too, create a WoW clone in space and add all the things that keep WoW successful these days (competitive PvP being a big one), but its like they decided to copy 99% of the game and leave out the best parts with nothing in return! That isn't "a breath of fresh air" that's like an old fart, its a step back for MMO's, and I for one, won't be fooled by this game. Arenanet are the only hope for a kick to the MMO genre, and thankfully, its looking hopeful so far.

It's cute you googled the same word some guy said a page earlier, but the thread title was not hyperbole to me, the game is unplayable, and I have already acknowledged that I perhaps worded it poorly, but that if you READ THE FIRST POST, you would have understood my meaning. "When will this game be playable to me" is the new thread title as I said earlier.

Yes, I indicated that this game was unplayable to me because of certain features I felt were missing. I did indeed say that most MMOs are never finished on release, but this is sort of besides the point, because I also said that I can live with a game not being 100% finished, as long as certain key elements are implemented. I acknowledged that the game was not finished, and that a lot of varying things were missing, but that only certain key things were preventing me from playing. I didn't expect a finished product when I bought the game, I merely expected certain features to already be implemented. Bringing up these points, and I can't quite believe I'm saying this again to you.. was for me to find out when or if these things that were stopping me playing were going to be implemented, if at all. I honestly cannot see how by now you haven't understood this. You are really, really dumb.

1) perhaps I worded the thread wrongly, but ignoring the title if people had read and understood my paragraph they would have know I meant playable to ME. "When will tor be playable to ME" is the new thread title. 2) These lack of features make the game unplayable to me. See 1). 3) I 'admit' (why are you assuming I'm on the offensive here?) that issues may be fixed, but I have no idea when or what issues will be fixed, and the time-scale is important to me, because of the last paragraph of my post, indicating that when GW2 comes out I will most likely leave. I would like a game I can play before GW2 and if these things aren't fixed before it, then there's no point in playing, and BW won't be getting my sub.

Hang on, are you seriously saying not many other people want; A) Mods. B) Competitive PvP. ??? Seriously?? Have you played a single MMO in the last 10 years? Do you have any idea how big the pvp subscriber base for WoW is these days? How vital addons are to the playability and enjoyment of a lot of players?

I wanted to know if and when certain features important to me are going to be implemented. I can live with certain things not be addressed instantly, because that's the nature of a new game, especially an MMO, but certain things are hindering my ability to play the game. I wasn't asking for your opinion on the features I find important, I don't care what you think, and that's not what this thread was for. Go be a massive fanboy somewhere else, better yet, think before you post and read the damn thread post. You need a lesson in reading comprehension.

First of all, these things might not be game breaking to you, but to ME they are.. They may not be important or needed to YOU but to me they are. My decision on whether to play this game is based off of those points, and if you don't like it then I don't care. The reason for me posting (not a troll) is because of all the posts I got saying things like "blah blah X isnt needed stop whining" etc. I don't give a **** what you think I just wanted to know if anybody helpful had any idea if and when these things would be implemented so I, personally, could play a game I deemed finished. (quite frankly this game was not a finished product on release, but MMO's never are. Deal with it.)

First of all, this isn't a troll question or thread... I think this game has a great deal of potential, I think it could be a very good game, but it seems to me there are a lot of things that BW haven't addressed that they really should have implemented/fixed on release. I'm not going to name them all, because they are varying and great in number. But certain things to me are more important than others, and will depend on whether I will play the game, they are... 1) Arena - Warzones; will they implement some sort of ranked ladder arena or WZ system? Will they add new WZ's and get rid of that ridiculous bolstering system. 2) Will they allow mods soon? This is absolutely essential to me. I wouldn't have played WoW for 7 years if I couldn't tweak the UI/make the game my own in all sorts of ways. 3) The little things; like adding a targets target, a combat log, less city instancing, etc. I know in due time some of these things will be fixed or implemented (I hope for the games sake), but it's really a matter of how soon for me... Guild Wars 2 is due out in late Q1 2012 and to be honest, I'll be on that SO fu*cking hard... I actually think a lot of people will, and that if a lot of things aren't changed TOR (and WoW) is going to lose a Hell of a lot of subs to GW... so basically... When will this game be a finished product?

Guild Wars 2 already looks more promising for players interested in PvP. Even in the beta there is vastly more PvP options and catering towards competitive play. (see - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440171) If you don't like 'those folk' then I would suggest staying well away from GW2...

Is that your attitude to all of life? How sad.

To be honest man, it sounds like your problem is that you are bad. 'Elite' only means good.

What WoW had or didn't have in 2004 is irrelevant. This is a game released nearly a decade later, in pretty much 2012. Infact, your reasoning does nothing but hurt the integrity of the game if you think about it... Bioware have had 8 years to watch WoW and its development, and despite having taken most of their game from WoW, they've failed to take what players now expect as a standard in MMO's. ****, a combat log has been expected long before even WoW. The 'WoW didn't launch with X' argument has no logical basis whatsoever. Sure, WoW didn't launch with X, but that was a long time ago. You shouldn't be using a 2004 release as the basis on which to judge a 2012 game. If you're doing that, then your game is poor, and stale. SWTOR should be blowing WoWs 2004 release out of the water, it truly is a testament to how lacking this game is that people are comparing it to an 8 year old release.

I think it is. I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums. Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's? I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill. Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar. You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

Don't worry, no one will disagree with you any more. There, there.

Well firstly the information about the Thief class isn't the sole source of information we have about the game, and secondly, I didn't say it will be the saviour of MMO's, I said it has a lot of promise, and I've praised it for at least trying something innovative, because I honestly cannot see anything innovative about this game. Anyway, last post, I'm out, its been fun, and its been sad to see how this community is actually not that different from WoWs, but yeah, have fun with this game.

So what? People expect release to be a little different. I'm trying to post constructive criticism, but clearly people can't take it. Fingers in their ears, LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU mode engaged. Some people even get so offended they launch personal attacks! Isn't that cute. I guess doing something helpful for the game, like posting constructive criticism, isn't to be tolerated. I've gotten two warnings so far from a mod on quite tame posts, I'll probably be banned soon. I guess you aren't allowed to criticise this game.

Yes, I have. Have you played Thief? (Inb4 have you. No, I haven't, but I'm not the one writing off a class currently in beta based on a 2 minute long low lvl youtube video.)

GW2 actually looks very innovative. Scrapping away with traditional roles like tank, healer, etc, and focusing on actually dodging that enemies spell, melee attack, whatever. If you think Guild Wars 2 is going to be a SWTOR clone then you are delusional as ****. (Btw you haven't corrected me on anything yet.)

Care to point me to which option that is? Because I would f'ing LOVE to be able to skip all cutscenes like that, but you just can't. Spacebar or nothing.

You know what? Until game developers can start to release MMO's that aren't just clunky WoW clones then I will. This game has done absolutely nothing innovative at all, and on almost everything it copies, (almost all aspects of the gam), it does worse. It's a very nice looking game, and I like how the melee combat looks, but aside from that, crap. Half the dialogue sounds like its been straight ripped from a **** scene its so bad. Guild Wars 2, fingers crossed.

7/10. Not bad, I'd probably come back in a few months or so to play the game once all the crap is cleaned off , but GW2 will be out before that, so... unlucky.

1) First off, you're wrong. You can't skip the cut-scenes, you can skip to the next line of dialogue. It is of my opinion that the cinematic questing puts more people off this game than it draws in. 2) I very often feel like I'm in a single player game, and I often see dead zones. 3) There's no addons at the beginning of this game, because the devs have not allowed for addons. WoW had addons from the beginning. Albeit quite buggy ones, but addons nonetheless. 4) My connection has no impact on the server latency. The game is not very responsive. 5) Some people like functionality and good design in games they devote time too, and pay for.

Where is the logic in this? WoW was released almost a decade ago. As the years go by, people expect more and more. Wow hasn't been operating underground for all these years, Bioware will have looked long and hard at WoW and its development and used that to their advantage when developing this game. Sorry, but that makes no sense.

I hope so. I want nothing more in gaming right now than an MMO to contend with Warcraft. I'm not saying all these things because I like to say them, I'm saying them because I think they are serious issues with the game that prevent it from doing that. I want it to succeed, because I want to play a fun game! I have no allegiance to a developer or game that wouldn't be cut by a better game, I just want a game that is worth spending money on.