Is this the most casual friendly MMO of all time?

[racsofp]

As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

On one side, there is the "WoW didn't have Feature A at launch so this game doesn't need it either" crowd and on the other is "It's 2012, new games need to have everything at launch" crowd.

 

Newer games should build upon older games. Certain features become standard and should be included in new games. You should absolutely expect a game launched in 2012 to have more features and be more refined than a game released in 2004.

 

However, complaining that it doesn't have EVERYTHING the game that's been worked on for 8 years has is not really right either.

 

Games like this are expected to be works in progress to some degree. If you want companies to only release MMO's that are 100% complete with every feature imaginable built in at release, games will never get released.

 

This game is barely 24 hours old officially. Opening day issues are to be expected, and items that need to be tweaked or added is also to be expected.

[Xolhardal]

The Automotive industry in not even close to an equal comparison. Software development in an MMO is far different.

 

Take WoW as the primary example. They have had continous development for over 10 years now. Every day that goes by they are adding more to the game or working on expansions and bug fixes.

 

Explain how a MMO that started development today come out with as much content and polish as a game that in the end has had 10 more years to work on their game?

 

WoW was the exact same way when it first released. EQ was bigger, was polished, and had more content than WoW when WoW first came out. Why then did WoW pass them up eventually?

 

WoW was successful because of what they did after the game was released, fixing bugs and adding content, not because of what it was at launch. If WoW was the same game 6 months after launch that it was on day one, it would have failed in the first year.

 

I'm at a loss. I could have used ANY industry and the bottom line is the same, you are trying to sell more than the next guy. I could have used cell phones, MP3 players, Computers, SOFTWARE, etc. Would any of them been more appropriate for you?

 

And to think that more R&D goes into a video game than a car is ignorant on your part. People don't die when their video game crashes. Think before you speak.

[Kurnea]

Trust me. Maybe you fail at finding mods, but there is a rediculous amount of auto-play mods available to WoW. I just did a search out of curiousity and the "screen flash - DOTHISNOW" mods are plentiful.

 

With any of the progressive content, if you can't anticipate the boss doing it before it flashes, you're already dead. "Majordomo is about to leap on you!" will flash a second after you should already have been prepared to move. And even flashes like that are few. If you really think you can go into a heroic raid that you've never done and be able to clear the boss easily through addon help, you're oblivious to what raiding is like. Anything outside of that can be easily downed regardless of addon use.

 

Which is why I enjoy the small 2 and 4-man groups in SWTOR. My wife and I and a few close friends will play the game as we wish and not as other spastic gotta-do-it-now-now-now players.

 

That would be just like instances in WoW, which were/are easy as hell, addons or not.

 

Too many lazy people out there to find 10 people that just want to figure it out on their own, let alone 20 or more.

 

Seems like you're the lazy one if finding like-minded people is too difficult for you.

 

I suggest you hang out in WoW for a little while longer and come back when the "flash-and-click" mods are available in SWTOR.

Already quit WoW. I'm a big Bioware fan, KoTOR remains one of my favorite games, and truth be told I can play well with or without addons, I just happen to like having more options rather than less as a personal preference. Got through Hammer Station just fine last night.

 

However, when addons do get added, I'll be happy to continue playing, even if they're just u.i. addons.

[Putok]

You are 100% wrong.

 

Where's my proper working camera that I can tell not to swing back to front facing at breakneck speeds as soon as I release left mouse? Where's my /roll? Customizable (or at LEAST scaleable UI)? Decent AH interface? Some sort of LFG tool that doesn't require sitting around doing nothing in a main city spamming general when I want to be out questing? This game is strangely missing some very basic features, despite highly developed content in other areas.

 

I'm having a lot of fun, but I think Bioware definitely should have invested the extra month it would have taken to make sure all these features were at least at the level that was industry standard a few years ago.

[Ghaiana]

There are statistics about hardcore gamers, like in WoW 11% of the players makes 80% of the played time. This means that 89% only makes 20% of the played time..

 

Well if I was gaming company I surely would know which crowd I wanted to reach to make money.

 

And OP: Casual != Bad.

[Krookid]

With any of the progressive content, if you can't anticipate the boss doing it before it flashes, you're already dead. "Majordomo is about to leap on you!" will flash a second after you should already have been prepared to move. And even flashes like that are few. If you really think you can go into a heroic raid that you've never done and be able to clear the boss easily through addon help, you're oblivious to what raiding is like. Anything outside of that can be easily downed regardless of addon use.

 

 

 

That would be just like instances in WoW, which were/are easy as hell, addons or not.

 

 

 

Seems like you're the lazy one if finding like-minded people is too difficult for you.

 

 

Already quit WoW. I'm a big Bioware fan, KoTOR remains one of my favorite games, and truth be told I can play well with or without addons, I just happen to like having more options rather than less as a personal preference. Got through Hammer Station just fine last night.

 

However, when addons do get added, I'll be happy to continue playing, even if they're just u.i. addons.

 

We did just fine on Raids without mods and add-ons. I was sad to see the shift to mods as the game progressed. Wipes are supposed to happen. It's how you learn to play. Starting with a synopsis of the fight, ck'ing to see if everyone has the right mods, etc. is boring.

 

I'm not lazy, I just don't see a world where you can find 10 people who just want to play the game and don't start getting loot crazy. It's rare to find people who don't chose "easy" mode or even "God" mode in solo PC games, let alone games where you rely on other players.

 

I have a small group that is also tired of the large guild propensity to lean toward auto-play and are as happy as can be to play without mods, so I have zero need to look for people who don't wish to auto-play.

 

 

I don't have any issue when it comes to UI mods. Some people are right handed, others are not and prefer different locations for UI windows. To me, that doesn't count as an "easy-mode" mod.

 

 

Lunchtime's over and it's time for this "casual player" to get back to work.

 

Later.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Krookid

[Xolhardal]

There are statistics about hardcore gamers, like in WoW 11% of the players makes 80% of the played time. This means that 89% only makes 20% of the played time..

 

Well if I was gaming company I surely would know which crowd I wanted to reach to make money.

 

And OP: Casual != Bad.

 

A one month subscription is a one month subscription, doesn't matter if you play 24 hours in that month or 24 hours/day in that month. If the 11% quit, you'd still have 89% paying a monthly fee...who cares how many hours they put in, rofl.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Xolhardal

[Hindricks]

Why keep out such a large potential userbase? .

 

Because the base that they have targeted is much Much MUCH larger

[Kurnea]

We did just fine on Raids without mods and add-ons. I was sad to see the shift to mods as the game progressed. Wipes are supposed to happen. It's how you learn to play. Starting with a synopsis of the fight, ck'ing to see if everyone has the right mods, etc. is boring.

 

You seem a fan of the whole 'difficulty by trial and error' approach. Many gamers, including myself, would rather not spend an ungodly amount of time just trying to know what it's basic abilities are, and would rather go straight to building a strategy around said abilities. A boss killing you with an ability without the players having any idea of what was coming is a well-known example of artificial difficulty.

 

Also, if someone offers to join your group and has already done the fight and can give a step by step tutorial of what to do, would you really turn such a person down?

I'm not lazy, I just don't see a world where you can find 10 people who just want to play the game and don't start getting loot crazy. It's rare to find people who don't chose "easy" mode or even "God" mode in solo PC games, let alone games where you rely on other players.

 

If you have no problem finding like-minded people and grouping with them, why should you be concerned with how other people play? You say it's rare to find players who don't want to do things the easy way, but if you're not lazy as you claim, it still shouldn't be any problem finding people to group with regardless.

 

Let's admit what your real issue is: You'll pug with anyone who comes your way, and that's why it's a problem that not everyone agrees with your playstyle.

 

 

I have a small group that is also tired of the large guild propensity to lean toward auto-play and are as happy as can be to play without mods, so I have zero need to look for people who don't wish to auto-play.

 

Then I really don't see how mods would affect you. You have a small group of people who refuse to use addons, so how does it hurt you if people you're not playing with chooses to do otherwise? People who like addons can choose to use them, people who don't can choose not to.

 

I really don't get why people's playstyle should concern you if you're not playing with those people in the first place.

[Aeviana]

OP, stop whining

[inseeisyou]

Here is some maths for you.

 

When you allow the "hardcore" to dominate in all competitive aspects of the game, this may be around 10% of the server population.

 

The other 90% are not enjoying the fact that they stand no chance due to the fact that they only have a handful of hours to devote to the game each week. Some of them will stick it out. But many will simply screw it and un sub. You can't force people to play a video game.

 

You can get in a good laugh at them and feel and get a hard on from "dominating" them (bear in mind this is a video game), but Bioware cares only about the $$$. The people they will lose because they don't let you run around ganking level 1s in the starting area is far less than they would lose if they did allow it.

[RachelAnne]

I think it is.

 

I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums.

 

Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's?

 

I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill.

 

Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar.

 

You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

 

First, of all is the amount of professionel players maybe 1% at wow. Why should BW design the game for them? Doesnt make any sense.

 

Second, hostile are the elitist players and not the casuals. Did you even read a bit at the forums? The elitist demands, demands, demands - all they do since day 1 is demand. They want to adjust the game so that they can do their thing, they dont care a bit about the other 99% and their ability to have fun.

Addons, LFG, Dual Spec etc. all these "pro tools" destroy a lot for those who just want to play for fun, because they get insulted by elitist´s all the time. Look at wow, look how great wow at vanilla was and how bad it became since wotlk.

 

Third, if BW is smart then they wont make a second wow. What the MMO community does need is an MMO for adults, people that just play the game and dont have a job in it. If they manage SWTOR will be successfull, if they dont it will die like every other MMO that came after wow and did copy it.

[nawtyuh]

We are the 99%.

 

#occupyswtor.

[Rychean]

This thread is what's the matter with MMOs today. Too many opinions and chattering. Not enough playing.

[Thorkir]

I believe I shall reserve my judgement on the casual-friendliness of this game until it has been officially launched for a month.

 

There are bugs that need fixing. There are features that are strangely absent. However, the launch itself went fairly well, despite server queues and the like.

 

I'm going to give BW a little time to work on the problems, rather than rage for no obvious reason.

[Bollah]

This game will be hardcore friendly at endgame, watch and see in both PvP and PvE.

 

Regardless, even if it wasn't BioWare won't care because casuals are like 90% of the audience.

[Rhinoplat]

I think it is.

 

I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums.

 

Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's?

 

I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill.

 

Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar.

 

You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game.

 

Lol. You're idea of hardcore are addons and mods. That is the baby way. You are asking for an easier game, not one that is hardcore.

 

If you want hardcore, start asking for better PvP between guilds, as in guild city warfare. If you want hardcore start asking for loot to drop when you die; crafters wouldn't be bothered too much by this as you can pull mats from your ship cargo.

 

But asking for addons, mods and combat logs does not make the game more hardcore. All I hear is sniveling because you're not good enough to keep up with players that don't need mods. You can't compete with other players that have natural skill, so you want them to allow mods so you can have a computer program beat them for you. Nice job.

[Beatmiser]

I'm not going to debate what is or isn't hardcore. What I will say is BioWare knows -exactly- the market they want, and it's the casuals who will continue to pump money in and not get upset over every little thing that happens, and who will probably not sit on the server all day long adding queue load.

 

Casuals tend to have more disposable income because they are older and have families. They also tend to be more mature about problems because the game is not their life.

 

I know this is not EVERY CASUAL, but it is a large chunk of that group.

[Tewnam]

What WoW had or didn't have in 2004 is irrelevant. This is a game released nearly a decade later, in pretty much 2012. Infact, your reasoning does nothing but hurt the integrity of the game if you think about it... Bioware have had 8 years to watch WoW and its development, and despite having taken most of their game from WoW, they've failed to take what players now expect as a standard in MMO's. ****, a combat log has been expected long before even WoW. The 'WoW didn't launch with X' argument has no logical basis whatsoever. Sure, WoW didn't launch with X, but that was a long time ago.

 

You shouldn't be using a 2004 release as the basis on which to judge a 2012 game. If you're doing that, then your game is poor, and stale.

 

SWTOR should be blowing WoWs 2004 release out of the water, it truly is a testament to how lacking this game is that people are comparing it to an 8 year old release.

 

It's entirely relevant. Programming hasn't changed so drastically in the past 10 years that all of these new features that people complain aren't included can be developed so much faster.

 

You're saying that a game's development time should be longer and have larger development teams as time moves forward? Well I hope some people are working on games for the 2025 release now, because that's what it's going to take with the amount of self-entitlement going around.

 

This game has already released much cleaner, smoother, and with more features than most other MMOs out there ever did. Just because the features it released with aren't the features that you're looking for doesn't mean they aren't there.

[Krookid]

You seem a fan of the whole 'difficulty by trial and error' approach. Many gamers, including myself, would rather not spend an ungodly amount of time just trying to know what it's basic abilities are, and would rather go straight to building a strategy around said abilities. A boss killing you with an ability without the players having any idea of what was coming is a well-known example of artificial difficulty.

 

Also, if someone offers to join your group and has already done the fight and can give a step by step tutorial of what to do, would you really turn such a person down?

 

 

If you have no problem finding like-minded people and grouping with them, why should you be concerned with how other people play? You say it's rare to find players who don't want to do things the easy way, but if you're not lazy as you claim, it still shouldn't be any problem finding people to group with regardless.

 

Let's admit what your real issue is: You'll pug with anyone who comes your way, and that's why it's a problem that not everyone agrees with your playstyle.

 

 

 

 

Then I really don't see how mods would affect you. You have a small group of people who refuse to use addons, so how does it hurt you if people you're not playing with chooses to do otherwise? People who like addons can choose to use them, people who don't can choose not to.

 

I really don't get why people's playstyle should concern you if you're not playing with those people in the first place.

 

It doesn't bother me.

 

I'm not the one whining.

 

I like the lack of mods, the lack of a DPS meter, etc.

 

I'm happy with the game as is and I'm only telling you why.

[Dalenaria]

Um yes it is. Rift launched with almost 100% of wows features and more. Game sucks but the features in terms on UI etc were there. Star wars not so much. I still love the game though and moreso then Rfit. I hold gameplay to the top of my list and STORS gameplay so far for me is great. No combatlog though is pretty fail.

 

Seriously? Do you remember the Rift release, forums were crammed full of people doing exactly what they are doing here, QQ'ing about how it missed blankity-blank of what WoW did. In fact there was more griping on Rift then there is right now on ToR, which I figure is a good sign that ToR is doing something right. But that first month in the Rift forums...toxic.

[RenegadeXan]

I dunno i think not, people are jerk in chat, if you tend to ask a single question, you get mocked and people go on with whats wrong bro umad? trolololol?

 

I could go on and on, i just leave chat off.

[Kurnea]

It doesn't bother me.

 

I'm not the one whining.

 

I like the lack of mods, the lack of a DPS meter, etc.

 

I'm happy with the game as is and I'm only telling you why.

 

I'm happy with the game as well, but I'll still be happy once an addon api gets here.