Please, allow FACTION DEFECTION as a part of end game!

[Sarafain]

The way I would like to see this roll out -

 

CC market purchase item to start the quest. Yes I'd like to not pay anything but as SWTOR is a F2P MMO it'll go bust if it spends time developing content with no financial gain. Subscribers can have enough CC saved in 2-3 months if they don't want to put out extra $'s.

 

The item that starts the quest has the conditions that you're finished your class quest and level 50. If you start it before Makeb have one of the characters from the defect quest start your go to Makeb, if you're doing or done the Makeb chain and switch you start at the begining of the opposing faction.

 

I'd like to see a new zone for the quest area, something more then the travel 15 minutes on 1 planet then go to another to do the same thing. I'd like to see your companions slowly taken away to a point where your ship droid and neutral/added pets (HK, Ewok).

 

The big moment; I'd like to see a bit of story here, partial betrayal, perhaps b/c of your roomance companion or to help another, an offer to help yourself by helping the other faction. I want a good gritty story behind it.

Afer you choose you meet and agent of your now old faction who wipes mind of all faction info, bye bye codex, like all of it, including datacrons. Yes you have to go out and get them all back

 

Then it's time to do 5 mini quests and at the end you choose what companion you want between the class and the mirror's. The companions you keep retain there affection, the new ones start at scratch. I'm not sure any require quests for you to be on the fleet so another solution might be needed.

 

You get a new ship, the same as all defectors. add a 5th spot to the docking bay on the fleet. Same with Vendors, just give them a little corner to sell from. Going forward any Class related quests would be picked up by a Defect quest giver.

 

You pay a bit to play on the faction you want with the character you want and get to have a unique set of companions.

 

It's been said many times so why not 1 more. All voices already exist, all animations exist, it's just a matter of linking them.

[Allronix]

This could get interesting, especially since there's one Imperial class where the endgame option can be taken as turning traitor on the Empire. Light Side Inquisitors seem to have a loyalty to the Empire and Sith that are questionable at best (a background as a slave probably isn't going to make one the most loyal Imperial patriot). And the Dark Side ending of the Knight's story could be read as "Heaven doesn't want me, and I just took over Hell."

 

Other classes could get problematic though. Not sure how you'd pull it off with the Warrior of Consular, for example.

[Chicktopus]

I heard rumours during beta that faction defection was a thing. It became apparent after a while that it couldn't be due to SWTOR actually being fairly bland in it's choice systems. I suppose it could be implemented later, sort of like heroic classes in WoW where you'd need a level 55 character to create a Death Knight, except perhaps in this instance you'd need a level x character who'd fulfilled x criteria, at which point you unlocked a new 'heroic' class. This new class would allow you to create a new character (so as you don't lose your old one) and would be, for all intents and purposes, your old character, albeit with this new 'heroic' class and on the opposing faction where he/she diverges once again from his/her advanced class with new abilities and talents specific to that heroic class, much in the same way base/advanced classes work, albeit with a new story line.

[Sarafain]

Can anyone else confirm or deny they were trying it in beta?

 

Would be nice if there was some feedback from the dev's. Not sure how many people are following the thread but if it's just not possible based on engine would like to know and let the subject die.

[Bendu]

I think the first step to this problem of what to do with companions or story lines all starts with Bioware adding in companion alignments. So they would need to have a way to gain more companions regarlds of class. Sorta like the Ewok and HK51. They would need more of these that would fullfil any role you needed. I really hate the fact you can't make your companions leave you by the choices you make in game, but I can understand why they did what did for now. In my opinion, untill they fix the companion alignment system to the point that they will actually leave you, and to the point where you can influence them for light or dark side, I don't see them trying to come up with a way to allow us to defect to the other side. I would be all for this, even though I realize the work that needs to be done. That's why I think they would have to make more ways of getting companions so that if you defect and lose some companions then you could seek out others. It would have to be an epic story line, a story line that involes all your companions to some climax kinda like DA2 when you find out if all your hard work is going to pay off.

[Vrikul]

Just make a story quest line that involves the defection and how is done. The classes are mirrored anyways. I like this idea. We see many who jump sides while leveling, we too should have that choice.

[Yavin_Prime]

I would love this, it reminds me of EQ2 and it's side switching. However you may be neglecting something important: Bioware may be planing to add more class story chapters. I know that so far the only main expansion (Rise of the Hutt Cartel) has been a faction based story, however we can't exclude the fact that mabey Bioware will be adding class specific quest lines.

 

With that said if you switched your sniper to the republic what class story would your character have? Would he/she be a trooper... a smuggler? Also they would have to hire all the voice actors to do even more reading. Afterall you'd want your british sounding accent with your sniper right?

 

I really would love this idea, I want my BH on the republic, like you I too tend to like the republic more (racism kinda makes me sick and the empire is way to full of it). I wouldn't mind so much if they added more alien characters to the empire in high ranking positions.

[Haggardbr]

I would love this, it reminds me of EQ2 and it's side switching. However you may be neglecting something important: Bioware may be planing to add more class story chapters. I know that so far the only main expansion (Rise of the Hutt Cartel) has been a faction based story, however we can't exclude the fact that mabey Bioware will be adding class specific quest lines.

 

With that said if you switched your sniper to the republic what class story would your character have? Would he/she be a trooper... a smuggler? Also they would have to hire all the voice actors to do even more reading. Afterall you'd want your british sounding accent with your sniper right?

 

I really would love this idea, I want my BH on the republic, like you I too tend to like the republic more (racism kinda makes me sick and the empire is way to full of it). I wouldn't mind so much if they added more alien characters to the empire in high ranking positions.

 

I really don't think they will add more class storylines any time soon.

 

And as you said, yeah... let's say that I choose to defect my sniper to the republic (as I so much want to do), he could become a SIS Agent and part of the Republic Military, or a freelance agent working for the army, just like Agent Jaxo (from the trooper's storyline), thus following the trooper's storyline if they add more.

 

BHs could easily become "smugglers" since their life style is equal in most cases (just want to make money).

 

Jedi / Sith wouldn't change a thing, except that a padawan would become an apprentice and a darth a master and vice-versa.

[Sarafain]

I really don't think you should get the option to defect until you're 50, or rather until you're done the class story. Not only would Bioware have to create way for a toon to level but they'd have to make the quest level specific. What would be the point in doing it earlier ?

 

I also doubt they'll have to bring back voice actors. I really only think there's 20-25 different answers that have been pre-recorded... Or maybe I'm just sick of hearing "murder and mayhem await", "I'll be covered in blood from head to toe", "I can absolutely do that", etc

 

From a quest persepctive, going forward, the defecting toon would become a "defection class" regardless of the previous class; basically all defecting classes have the same story quest. I'm found of this idea as it would add a new story/quest to the 4 faction ones.

[Bendu]

It appears to me that there is a lot of good ideas here. Let's hope that Bioware will start to listen some. I think it can be done correctly and efficiently if they time it right. I like some the ideas on here as to how they should handle things. But, I still think that having companion alignment that we can influence would be the first step to this ever going live. Along with the idea of being able to recruit more companions. They could do some kind of tier system based on your light and dark alignment. I would like to see these companions just out in the galaxy hidden away in cantania's or other backwoods places. It would give us a reason to explore the galaxy. These quest for the new companions would only open up if you meet the requirments as per your current alignment, and the fact that you may be missing one. They would have to be only able to get at max level as well. That way you have to complete your current class story. Obiviously they would still have to cap the number of companions you can have, but if they had a system in place to get more no matter what class you played or what side your played, it would then open the door for the abillity to loose comapions based on your decisions you make. No doubt they would have to work hard at this, to make sure each existing companion has a climax that causes them to leave you. However, it would open the idea up for faction defection to make more sense. If you where going to loose all your companions due to a faction defection then with the ability to gain more compainons in the galaxy it would not hurt as much and make sense story wise. They would also have to add more conversation options so that you could scout your companions some to see if they would leave if you did faction defect. They could even make that part of the requirments to faction defection. You have to have all your companions in alignment with you and have them at max friendship.

[darkdoctor]

I would love this figure ingame and maybe your next expansion be called Defection.

 

I would like to see somekind of mission where you stay total loyal to you faction, change side but be a double agent or total change side. For your companions tho some will defect with you and some will leave and try to hunt you down in your side with another faction. Maybe used companions from the other faction or make some new ones would can join you. But I think this should be end game stuff, maybe before Rise of Hutts. That be coll if we could join the hutts side or different faction all together.

[Darth_Hatine]

Personally, I think there should be a legacy unlock to switch animations for mirror classes. Example: Jedi Consular's Project becomes the Sith Inquisitor's Shock or vice versa. However, since we are on the topic of defections. I love playing the Jedi Consular, but I'm also the darkest Jedi to have ever lived! So faction defection would be awesome for my Consular.

 

Also while talking about defections, I think Bioware should make "Fallen Jedi", "Dark Jedi", "Enlightened Sith" and "Redeemed Sith" into titles. "Fallen Jedi" for Jedi who have reached Dark IV and "Enlightened Sith" for Sith who have reached Light IV. "Dark Jedi" and "Redeemed Sith" could be given once given Jedi or Sith reaches Dark II and Light II respectively.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Darth_Hatine

[Fevee]

Lot of nays and yays poured into this concept.

 

I've always considered a defection concept, too, for characters who have reached a certain point. After all, in KOTOR I, the player was given the choice to stay with their friends and defeat Malak or join the Sith and overthrow Malak. (It stinks to be Malak, in that game.) And I don't remember much about KOTOR II, that game flew by too quickly for me to catch on. But these light/dark choices should do more than just determine what kind of relics you can use later. And some sort of endgame choice to stay with your faction or defect to the other would certainly diversify the game.

 

I'm not saying it would be easy. Maybe some companions of yours wouldn't like your choice. After all, Canderous, HK, and T3 stayed with you no matter where you went. While you did have some unhappy companions who turned on you at the choice, you gained a different one. So perhaps SWTOR can have a similar feature. Perhaps you loose patriotic and/or low-affection companions, but gain replacement ones when you arrive at the other faction. Perhaps it's a whole new storyline, like how RoTHC added new material and expanded the story, some sort of defector's storyline can occur; your escape from your current faction, debriefing, and new story missions striking against your old faction.

 

No one's saying it's going to be easy, but new animations and re-voicing shouldn't be needed. The Agent isn't suddenly a smug smuggler with a pistol proficiency. He's still the cover-taking, blaster/sniper-weilding, British accent-speaking, secretive type. Probably a new term is needed to define these defectors. Renaming the force-wielders shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Either the Jedi Sentinel a Sith Sentinel or just make them Marauders with Sentinel animations, and so on. The blaster-type characters are what I'd think would take a little more creativity.

 

(Just thinking out loud, here:

:sy_darkside:Sith Sentinel

Sith Guardian

Sith Shadow

Sith Sage

:sy_lightside:Jedi Marauder

Jedi Juggernaut

Jedi Assassin

Jedi Sorcerer

:sy_darkside:Imperial Vanguard

Imperial Commando

:sy_lightside:Republic Sniper

Republic Operative

:sy_darkside:Freelance Scoundrel

Freelance Gunslinger

:sy_lightside:Freelance Powertech

Freelance Mercenary

 

(Honestly, smugglers and bounty hunters are supposed to work for whoever's got the most zeros on the check, anyways.))

[ZirusZero]

Lot of nays and yays poured into this concept.

 

I've always considered a defection concept, too, for characters who have reached a certain point. After all, in KOTOR I, the player was given the choice to stay with their friends and defeat Malak or join the Sith and overthrow Malak. (It stinks to be Malak, in that game.) And I don't remember much about KOTOR II, that game flew by too quickly for me to catch on. But these light/dark choices should do more than just determine what kind of relics you can use later. And some sort of endgame choice to stay with your faction or defect to the other would certainly diversify the game.

 

I'm not saying it would be easy. Maybe some companions of yours wouldn't like your choice. After all, Canderous, HK, and T3 stayed with you no matter where you went. While you did have some unhappy companions who turned on you at the choice, you gained a different one. So perhaps SWTOR can have a similar feature. Perhaps you loose patriotic and/or low-affection companions, but gain replacement ones when you arrive at the other faction. Perhaps it's a whole new storyline, like how RoTHC added new material and expanded the story, some sort of defector's storyline can occur; your escape from your current faction, debriefing, and new story missions striking against your old faction.

 

No one's saying it's going to be easy, but new animations and re-voicing shouldn't be needed. The Agent isn't suddenly a smug smuggler with a pistol proficiency. He's still the cover-taking, blaster/sniper-weilding, British accent-speaking, secretive type. Probably a new term is needed to define these defectors. Renaming the force-wielders shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Either the Jedi Sentinel a Sith Sentinel or just make them Marauders with Sentinel animations, and so on. The blaster-type characters are what I'd think would take a little more creativity.

 

(Just thinking out loud, here:

:sy_darkside:Sith Sentinel

Sith Guardian

Sith Shadow

Sith Sage

:sy_lightside:Jedi Marauder

Jedi Juggernaut

Jedi Assassin

Jedi Sorcerer

:sy_darkside:Imperial Vanguard

Imperial Commando

:sy_lightside:Republic Sniper

Republic Operative

:sy_darkside:Freelance Scoundrel

Freelance Gunslinger

:sy_lightside:Freelance Powertech

Freelance Mercenary

 

(Honestly, smugglers and bounty hunters are supposed to work for whoever's got the most zeros on the check, anyways.))

 

All of them pretty much fit except for the marauder and SI titles. Otherwise, it fits pretty well.

[Sarafain]

If it's a CC thing or part of an expansion dark vs light shouldn't matter. It takes a ton of time to switch from light to dark. Although I do agree more needs to be done with the dark or light side scale, as well as the legacy level.

 

I don't see it enough in the thread;

 

What class would you defect?

 

For me it'd be a Commando. The look of the heavy fire power coming from 2 little pistol's is no where near as astetically pleasing as a BFG.

[Haggardbr]

Let me bump this to keep the discussion flowing and more ideas to come!

[Icebergy]

Terrible idea at this point in the game's development. Might have been interesting if they had developed the game with this in mind, but as is it is simply not viable. Even if they wanted to make this change, they could not.

 

And personally I think it is a stupid idea. If you want to play Republic, roll Republic; if you want to play Empire, roll Empire. The classes are all mirrors of each other anyways.

[Kelvarn]

Terrible idea at this point in the game's development. Might have been interesting if they had developed the game with this in mind, but as is it is simply not viable. Even if they wanted to make this change, they could not.

 

And personally I think it is a stupid idea. If you want to play Republic, roll Republic; if you want to play Empire, roll Empire. The classes are all mirrors of each other anyways.

 

That's great. You add nothing to this discussion, if you can't give reasons.

The whole "This idea isn't viable" excuse was covered (by me) way back in the thread.

The whole "This is a stupid idea" excuse is your opinion. It's great you don't like it, but try giving reasons why you think it's so stupid, so I can refute them all.

The "the classes are mirrors" excuse, has been covered (multiple times, again by me, as well as others) in previous posts. Go look for why they can still work with faction defection.

The "If you want to play {Insert side here}" argument has been torn to shreds previously. Please, once again, go back and see appropriate posts to counter your argument.

 

Other than that, I am excited to see so much enthusiasm for this idea.

(Much prefer this to be an actual expansion, instead of a cartel market thing, but that's my personal preference)

[Icebergy]

That's great. You add nothing to this discussion, if you can't give reasons.

The whole "This idea isn't viable" excuse was covered (by me) way back in the thread.

The whole "This is a stupid idea" excuse is your opinion. It's great you don't like it, but try giving reasons why you think it's so stupid, so I can refute them all.

The "the classes are mirrors" excuse, has been covered (multiple times, again by me, as well as others) in previous posts. Go look for why they can still work with faction defection.

The "If you want to play {Insert side here}" argument has been torn to shreds previously. Please, once again, go back and see appropriate posts to counter your argument.

 

Other than that, I am excited to see so much enthusiasm for this idea.

(Much prefer this to be an actual expansion, instead of a cartel market thing, but that's my personal preference)

 

Just because you refuse to accept arguments doesn't mean you 'tore them to shreds'.

 

Fine, heres another argument for you then, since you refuse to accept the others. It is a technical nightmare for Bioware to implement this. It would take them years to work out the code and would take away all of their time they could be spending developing new content.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Icebergy

[Kelvarn]

Just because you refuse to accept arguments doesn't mean you 'tore them to shreds'.

 

Fine, heres another argument for you then, since you refuse to accept the others. It is a technical nightmare for Bioware to implement this. It would take them years to work out the code and would take away all of their time they could be spending developing new content.

 

Really? How do you know this? Do you work for Bioware? Are you a game programmer? Do you know a lot of game programmers?

 

Your arguments mean nothing. They are assumptions at best.

Having done some programming I can say it wouldn't be a technical nightmare. Just a simple if/then statement or two, to decide if they are republic or empire. From there, it's just adding on (which mainly means a lot of copy paste of code) for certain areas.

As for it taking them years to work out the code, again not true. In fact, you could use existing planets, and add in rooms to existing areas. Kind of like they did with the fleets, several times already.

Also, this would be new content. (Thus why I keep saying this should be an expansion)

Care to try again?

[Lesaberisa]

Actually, he's got it just about right. If you took the time to read another faction defection topic in the general discussion forum , you would have found this

 

Hey there! I talked to the Technical Director of the whole game at the community cantina event in Chicago. He said it would be a complete technical nightmare to do faction changes because the factions are set with their stories, abilities, companions and they really couldn't make different stories just for the people who wanted to defect. There wouldn't be anymore story for them and changing everything in the system for those characters to redo the things for that side would not work well with the companions, abilities, powers, and what you did. It just wouldn't make sense.

 

The developers also have said that something far simpler - gender change - requires a ton of programming to switch, yet somehow you think some if/then will allow for faction changes?

 

Then you throw in the fact story issues, the fact it doesn't work for many companions story-wise (and the suggestions I've seen in here range from non-suggestions like "good writing will deal with it" to regurgitated or weak story ideas), etc., and there's plenty of good reasons not to do it.

 

And, from my perspective, basing an expansion's story around catering to the idea of faction defections would be really dull.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[Kelvarn]

Actually, he's got it just about right. If you took the time to read another faction defection topic in the general discussion forum , you would have found this

 

 

 

The developers also have said that something far simpler - gender change - requires a ton of programming to switch, yet somehow you think some if/then will allow for faction changes?

 

Then you throw in the fact story issues, the fact it doesn't work for many companions story-wise (and the suggestions I've seen in here range from non-suggestions like "good writing will deal with it" to regurgitated or weak story ideas), etc., and there's plenty of good reasons not to do it.

 

And, from my perspective, basing an expansion's story around catering to the idea of faction defections would be really dull.

 

I don't hang out on the forums. In fact there are usually only a couple threads I actually check into. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

However, the way you wrote it up makes it sound like actually putting it into the game as a possible choice isn't how it was discussed.

There wouldn't be anymore story for them and changing everything in the system for those characters to redo the things for that side would not work well with the companions, abilities, powers, and what you did. It just wouldn't make sense.

That, to me, sounds like the idea of resetting the character, an putting them as the mirror class. In other words, resetting a Trooper as a BH.

My suggestion is write the next part of the story, so it allows for it as a possibility, AND keep it possible to stay the same side if the player makes that choice. A split in the story. Kind of like choose your own path.

 

Now, I will give you that it might be a technical nightmare to do it as a going back thing (at some point previous to max level, there is an option to switch sides, via cartel market, etc), but nothing stated says it can't be brought in as an expansion.

 

Before you sit there and say I am not listening to what you have to say, I will say this is the most convincing argument against it I have seen in this entire thread.

 

Having said that, I don't know you. I am a little skeptical to just take your word on this.

 

I can just as easily say I had friends at the cantina event in Anaheim ask about it, and the technical director said they are working on it, just trying to figure out how to bring it about. IE, as an expansion, cartel market, etc.

 

I hope you understand my point, there.

 

Now, again, I am not saying base the expansion around defection, totally. Yes, there will be the option. Yes, it might even be a theme, for a class or two. However, for the most part I am trying to present it as a decision you can make in the process of the story, that allow for you to switch sides. I fail to see how that would be all that much of a technical nightmare.

 

Now, here's why I say a few if/then statements: You can add in lines of code and (depending on if it's object-oriented coding or more C++ coding) functions, to decide where they go, which level the planets are, which fleet they go to, etc.

 

So yes, it might be a bit more difficult. But, based upon what I know of programming from the classes I have taken, I don't really see the technical nightmare you are saying it is. At least, not the way I am suggesting they implement it.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Kelvarn

[Darth-Malice]

pvp at night and get put on a team with Pubs if you like them so much. There problem solved.

[Lesaberisa]

I'm not the one who posted that in the other topic/attended the event; that's someone else with the same avatar. You're still grossly underestimating the difficulty, though. You're also completely ignoring everything the developers have said too, because of some classes you took.

 

If the flags in the code from your character's gender were problematic for them to deal with (i.e. adjusting companion romances, dialogues, etc. were at least part of why geneder changes aren't possible), then why would you possibly thing a faction change would be easier?

 

Technical dffculties aside, you still haven't addressed story or companion-related concerns, either. Saying "well good writing can answer anything" isn't an answer, and some of the ideas I've seen in this topic sound awful for expansion-related stories.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[Basreia]

I know you really really really really want this. But trust me, I talked to the Technical Director like I said in my other post in the other thread for a good solid 10 minutes on this ONE idea. It would be a complete technical nightmare he said. He explained a lot to me what they would have to do and to them, it just wouldn't be worth it.

 

If you are a Republic Class, you are going to stay a Republic Class

 

If you are an Empire Class, you are going to stay an Empire Class

 

If you would like to change sides, start a new character on the other side and roleplay through your mind you are a defector That's an option.

 

But trust me, what he said and what I understood there will not be a faction defection mission based on what was said. Even by him and Jesse I asked also. I understand your ideas and they ARE great! But just be realistic, it's not happening. Just roleplay you are from the other side and tell people you are

Edited August 11, 2013 by Basreia