Bioware, I fixed bolster for you (seriously)

[Brillat]

Bumped for common sense

 

ALL DEVS TO THE PVP FORUM !!!!

 

Devs are not allowed to read the PvP forum. It's in their contract.

[HBMalachorfive]

I love how it is so simple Hell the dev's could quite easily implement this in a 4 hour patch tonight but no we will have to wait as that is the unfortunate machine which is BW.

I will say one thing though. As an avid pvp'er and playing ranked as much as I can I love the idea of bolster (if it was working correctly) but I don't think it has a place in ranked WZ's. Ranked is there for a reason and It should be the best teams facing off against each after grinding their gear out, not people who are exploiting the system and coming in roflstomping everyone in sight.

But still this isn't about that love the idea's guys keep em coming

[Jeeses]

I love how it is so simple Hell the dev's could quite easily implement this in a 4 hour patch tonight but no we will have to wait as that is the unfortunate machine which is BW.

I will say one thing though. As an avid pvp'er and playing ranked as much as I can I love the idea of bolster (if it was working correctly) but I don't think it has a place in ranked WZ's. Ranked is there for a reason and It should be the best teams facing off against each after grinding their gear out, not people who are exploiting the system and coming in roflstomping everyone in sight.

But still this isn't about that love the idea's guys keep em coming

 

 

Imo, ranked should have bolster, however it would need to be 100% working as intended before it had a true place in ranked. I believe ranked should be where the big kids go to flaunt their skills, and what better way to do that than with 100% gear equality, or something close to it.

 

Tbh though, it shouldn't matter because full conq should be what all ranked players are wearing, maybe not quite yet but eventually, which would make bolster irrelevant anyway.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Jeeses

[MahneWarrior]

Please don't fill this thread with "just remove bolster"... It should not happen and I pray to god that BW stick it out with bolster.

 

If you can't see the benefits of the system you need to get your head checked.

 

For those of you with brainpower issues, I'll dumb it down for you...

For the sake of my example, lets say they implement what the OP, I and one other have already posted.

 

All pve gear is buffed/nerfed to 75% of lowest pvp gear.

 

Then there is partisan, the average lvl of gear, (this is a 25% boost in stats so worthwhile to grind it out)

 

Then there is conqueror, the current top teir gear (lets say for the sake of example its 25% better than partisan, just to keep numbers easy)

 

Then lets say 2.1 rolls around, and they release a new set of gear.

 

They increase bolster stats to partisan lvl, they have essentially made partisan the new recruit gear.

Now conq gear is bought with comms, and is still 25% better than partisan, so theres still point in grinding it out if you dont have it already.

 

They release a new set (lets call it top teir 2.1)

 

Now those who are new to pvp, or casuals etc have partisan stats, those who pvp semi regularly will quickly grind out conq gear, while those who are determined pvpers will quickly get top teir 2.1.

 

The idea of bolster @ 55 is that they dont have to constantly change gear stats around, they just increase the stats of bolster to an appropriate lvl.

 

Maybe I'm just seeing this too clearly, or 2/3 of the forum posters were dropped at birth... IDK sometimes

 

Road to hell is often paved with good intentions. Bolster is causing more problems then what it is worth. I PvE mainly and pvp for fun, I like that I really do not have to grind out two sets of gear, but I do not agree that those who are hardcore pvpers are forced do the bugs that players use to gain a competitive edge for the sake of allowing players like myself to enjoy PvP but mainly PvE.

 

Either fully normalize stats, or keep pvp geared based trying to find a happy middle ground is a noble cause but in the end simply did not pan out.

 

Maybe I am just odd, if something is causing more problems then it is worth say like car I simply write off and get something more reliable. Hardcore pvpers should not have to play through a broken system because bioware wishes to make pvers like myself happy.

[Jeeses]

Road to hell is often paved with good intentions. Bolster is causing more problems then what it is worth. I PvE mainly and pvp for fun, I like that I really do not have to grind out two sets of gear, but I do not agree that those who are hardcore pvpers are forced do the bugs that players use to gain a competitive edge for the sake of allowing players like myself to enjoy PvP but mainly PvE.

 

Either fully normalize stats, or keep pvp geared based trying to find a happy middle ground is a noble cause but in the end simply did not pan out.

 

Maybe I am just odd, if something is causing more problems then it is worth say like car I simply write off and get something more reliable. Hardcore pvpers should not have to play through a broken system because bioware wishes to make pvers like myself happy.

 

The problem with just dumping the system is that they'll have already spent so much on development and to simply abandon it with nothing to show would look bad. I myself am 100% pvp focused, why should i have to team with players like yourself (no offense) who either can not be bothered, or do not have the time to gain a full pvp set. I wouldn't expect you to carry me through pve content, so I dont want to carry you through pvp content.

 

Bolster is the way forward, you can not deny that fact.

They just need to make it work properly

[abhaxus]

I love how it is so simple Hell the dev's could quite easily implement this in a 4 hour patch tonight but no we will have to wait as that is the unfortunate machine which is BW.

I will say one thing though. As an avid pvp'er and playing ranked as much as I can I love the idea of bolster (if it was working correctly) but I don't think it has a place in ranked WZ's. Ranked is there for a reason and It should be the best teams facing off against each after grinding their gear out, not people who are exploiting the system and coming in roflstomping everyone in sight.

But still this isn't about that love the idea's guys keep em coming

 

Exactly what you said, except you could change it and say "recruit gear has no place in ranked WZ's". Because it's true. Bolster should simply take people that aren't already wearing PVP gear, and give them a recruit set.

[MahneWarrior]

The problem with just dumping the system is that they'll have already spent so much on development and to simply abandon it with nothing to show would look bad. I myself am 100% pvp focused, why should i have to team with players like yourself (no offense) who either can not be bothered, or do not have the time to gain a full pvp set. I wouldn't expect you to carry me through pve content, so I dont want to carry you through pvp content.

 

Bolster is the way forward, you can not deny that fact.

They just need to make it work properly

 

It is a great idea, and a way forward, but honestly their track record shows that fixing issues is not their thing. If they could fix bolster I say go for, but if fixing bolster takes 2 to 3 weeks I would rather they dump it and go back to pve content for pvers and pvp content for pvpers.

 

Granted bolster is their brain child and of course they want to see it flourish, but I do fear the longer the wait the smaller the pvp community will get. I mean Yay they fix bolster, but if say 10 or 15 percent of the active pvp player base quits long before that was the wait really worth it? Of course this is speculative, but I do not see the benefit. of waiting. I mean if they could remove bolster from 55 and ranked, and tinker with it behind the scenes, fulling test it then add it again go for it.

[abhaxus]

My point is that they cannot fix bolster in it's current state. It's too complex. Better to raze it to the ground than keep working on it. Given that, they can either do what I said, or do what others have suggested and give a recruit set to everyone for free. I think the recruit set is a dumb idea personally, and that what I and others have suggested makes a lot more sense than either current bolster, or a recruit set for free.

[Jeeses]

My point is that they cannot fix bolster in it's current state. It's too complex. Better to raze it to the ground than keep working on it. Given that, they can either do what I said, or do what others have suggested and give a recruit set to everyone for free. I think the recruit set is a dumb idea personally, and that what I and others have suggested makes a lot more sense than either current bolster, or a recruit set for free.

 

 

 

The problem with recruit gear is that in higher tiers it will beat beginner lvl pve gear, so pve players would ding 55, equip the pvp gear and win beginning ops etc, which is why they are trying to move away from hand outs.

[Brillat]

The problem with recruit gear is that in higher tiers it will beat beginner lvl pve gear, so pve players would ding 55, equip the pvp gear and win beginning ops etc, which is why they are trying to move away from hand outs.

 

That's why the posters here and elsewhere are saying stats should be boosted to a 'virtual' Recruit gear level, not an actual recruit set.

[NUPHOENIX]

Biowere is doing not besides sitting at a table and discussing this issue like politics. So basically nothing is getting done. Just quit the dam game like i did, star wars is dead thanks to biowere and Disney. SWTOR birth certificate says *expired* . Why play a game and waste your money on a game with no hope?. The economy is bad so just use $15 a month to pay a bill, get some food, go somewhere fun. You only live once so why waste it on this game anymore. I use to think it was the best MMO, But now that they did the bolster its my last straw, They lack the experience needed to keep customers happy. They lack the repair and capability to keep in game drama off the forums. If the Dev don't get their act together and work as a team, and stop thinking too hard i see no future. I love the game i really do but its gone to far. What happened to the old saying "The Customer is always right, even if they are wrong", Also no matter how much u want to kill them "the customer is always right":rak_02:

[abhaxus]

Bump...again.

[Ottoattack]

While I like the idea, lets face it, as long as there is a large discrepancy between PvP and PvE gear (lvl 65 verus 72), we will continue running into the same problem. PvE gear will for a large extent be BiS for some slots (say hilt/barrel main weapon). I am not sure why BW choose putting people in PvP gear at huge disadvantage out of WZs, needless to say, its not working as intended in WZs.

 

I have a much simpler solution. Scrap expertise; remove it completely from the game. Introduce three tier of PvP gear lvl 66, 69 & 72. Convert partisan to 69 and conqueror into 72. Anyone entering the WZ with gear less than lvl 69, will be bolstered to lvl 69 without augments. If you augments they will be added to your stats. The bolster should work on each hilt, barrel, armoring, mode and enhancement separately based on their lvl. At 69 you get zero bolster, same for 72, where you will be at a slight advantage. Implement a 40 to 45% healing debuff (currently is 40% with expertise).

 

This way, at 55 WZs, you will be starting off at 69 gear (regardless if you PvP or PvE), and you can gear either through PvP or PvE to obtain end game gear, which can be used for PvP and/or PvE. You do not need two sets of gear. You just gear up in which ever way you want and play whatever you want, thus all game gear problems will be resolved. Since max lvl gear (72) is only 3 levels from 69, the argument can not be gear vs skill. It will always be skill as the difference is about 2 to 3%. Also people in open world on PvP servers will not be at a huge disadvantage gear wise if not wearing designated PvP gear, because it will not exist.

 

Simple solution. But from how things have been going, I am seeing it as an ego problem. Someone in BW upper management forced the expertise system. It barely worked in 1.7 and is completely messed up in 2.0. Just remove it, unify the gear, put everybody in WZ at lvl 69, except if they are at lvl 72 gear wise. Allow people to gear in which ever avenue they see best. I am seeing SWTOR being a much better game without this bolster/expertise headache. Yet again, all I see is Cartel Market updates. Cartel Market news. If the game fundamentals are not working well and coherently, you will lose subscribers and Cartel Market won't matter.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Zadtro]

I know the bolster is still a big issue. I may need some help understanding how much expertise tanks get when they are wearing full tanking gear and have 37k HP do they still get expertise from bolster.

 

I agree with the bolster system being a good idea and i do think it needs changing but i think at lvl 55 if they removed expertise from bolster then people would have to play warzones to get pvp gear? Would that stop people from wearing pve gear unless they haven't got partisian yet.

 

I got into a warzone with pve gear and i have 29k HP with 1450 expertise or if i go full partisian i get 25.5k HP and get 1950 expertise and thats is with one bit pve because i get more expertise with it then changing it is this normal?

Edited May 7, 2013 by Zadtro

[abhaxus]

While I like the idea for getting rid of separate gear for PvP and PvE, my solution is still the simplest way for BW to fix the problem right away. Minimal effort.

[abhaxus]

For once a shameless bump is actually shameless

[abhaxus]

bump, because bolster is more broken than ever.

[Drake_Hound]

Bolster is fine , I rather have them fix the damn speed hacks or make it so difficult that only a small 1% can cheat .

 

Put resources in fixing your own leaks , sorry balancing the game is one thing .

Listening to cheaters whine about being killed is another .

 

Honestly fix bolster and expertise to be not nullified by 3rd party software ,

 

just delete there toons if they are caught all of them .. Aside from 7 day ban .

Seriously the moans on the forums are about wrong reasons .

[abhaxus]

At least on POT5, hacking is nonexistent. I'm sorry if your server is different.

 

This thread is about bolster and how to fix it.

[Drake_Hound]

At least on POT5, hacking is nonexistent. I'm sorry if your server is different.

 

This thread is about bolster and how to fix it.

 

You are kidding me , if it is noneexcistant then why all the hack upgrades each patch ?

within a couple days ?

 

Sorry reality check , spent more resources in wielding out speedhacks , especially those that affect other people clients .

Cause major stability issues arise of those crappy 3rd party users .

Maybe it is in the core those cheats , then disable them .

Getting tired of strange ghostly things and wierd warzones .

[abhaxus]

lol 10char

[Drake_Hound]

lol 10char

 

Ah so you are using it thanks for confirming it , now go buy more cartel coins .

There is your 10 char .

[MindSpore]

Or an even easier route... scrap bolster for 55, introduce a new recruit set, blue quality unmodable reasonable stats with 2018 capped epxertise, make it cost planetary comms, perhaps a mission reward for reaching 55 is enough planetary comms to purchase a complete or near complete set. Everyone has the same expertise, gear progression continues as normal, and casual/PvE players don't get gibbed upon entering a warzone.

 

Another possible solution, people with no expertise regardless of the strength of their gear are bolstered down/up to a pre determned level of stats (power/acc/crit/surge/etc) with 2018 expertise. Stats wise something slightly inferior to Partisan gear. This might work better because new players either turned in their recruit gear for cash, or just never bothered to wear it. People with gear that does not have full expertise (pvp gear) would be the lowest "tier" gear progression would stay intact, once you get full partisan you can min/max, and bolster will not degrade/boost your stats from there on.

 

Another option is that you could make expertise more valuable, make it do more than just 60% dmg boost, 37.5% damage reduction, 20.38% healing boost. Add percentage boosts to secondary stats, X% boost to endurance/surge/crit/acc/alacrity and reduce the base secondary stats on gear. This boost works in pvp zones/warzones/and pvp combat in world zones, but makes the gear functionally useless for pve content.

 

Downside people with just a set of pvp gear would be at a greater disadvantage while doing dailies for example. Another issue that could come out of this would be the cap for expertise would have to be raised, the 60/37.5/20.38 portion would remain static after 2018 expertise, beyond that it would boost the secondary stats boost level, perhaps with expertise+stat augments, 32 crit 20 expertise as an example allowing you to focus on increasing certain stats over others to meet your preference.

[abhaxus]

As stated many times in the thread, an actual recruit set is quite a bit worse than what I proposed. Recruit gear is deprecated quickly after it's introduction first when players acquire min/max on the current top tier, and then again when new tiers are released. Bolster with a predefined stat allocation would be superior in two main ways: the stats can be rubberbanded at any time to keep 'recruit bolster' in step with the prevailing gear level, and also allow people to customize their look for PVE and have that same look in PVP.

 

Your second suggestion is basically what is in the OP. Heh.

Edited May 31, 2013 by abhaxus

[Grue_Hunter]

I came up with an almost exactly identical idea about 1-2 weeks ago.

I'm glad that someone else has figured out that bolster could very easily be fixed and made exactly how they want it (presuming I know what they're trying to do of course)

 

The way i put it was something along the lines of:

 

"Gear above ilvl X, without expertise is reduced to a % of current bottom lvl pvp gear (currently partisan.)"

and

"Gear below ilvl X, without expertise is increased to a % of current bottom lvl pvp gear (currently partisan.)"

 

A blanket approach would be reasonably simple to implement and whilst not totally 100% perfect, would be just about spot on what they're trying to do.

 

I like the mod idea, however I do think that they would need to adjust mod values with gear, perhaps increase/decrease mod stats by the same % of gear?

 

 

Here is my post:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627635

 

I probably over-complicated things, unfortunately I have a tenancy to do that. But you get the gist of what i was trying to get across

 

Reading what both of you wrote would seem to work akin to calculating a z-score for the player based on the Partisan equipment (for their particular class) and then just re-curving it. To put it in layman's terms, it's similar to what is done for students when their test scores are "curved". As I see it, the only remaining thing for the developers to resolve would be to work out just how "tight" the actual bell curve would have to be -- i.e., whether the curving will be based on all the players in all the warzones or whether the curve should be done just for that particular warzone which the player is in at that time.

 

Both of you seem to advocate within the set warzone. That's fine. And, I like it. A quick sample could give an enjoyable and balanced experience for all players in the warzone at that time.

 

However, statistically, there is an interesting extension possible. One could get a self-calibrating system if there is a growing pool or database if every warzone is allowed to sample and/or tweak the "averages". And, that could save the devs a lot of tweaking time for bolster in the long run. (Plus, I note such a pool of data could also be used as a method to rate players regardless of whether they are PUGing or doing "ranked warzones". Heck, there could even be a way somewhere in there to make valor useful again.)