The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[Arunas]

That's when I would have left nothing irks me more in PUG games then ninja looters I have quite a few on my ignore list. If they ninja'd on the first then they're going to do it throughout the whole OP/FP.

 

I am not sure what do you people consider ninja-looting. For older content everything is trash anyway, unless you want something for appearance. For sm ops I need on tokens etc. even if I have them on my current char for alts/minmaxing mods since its transferable via legacy. If you really want to limit how much ppl get, can use master loot, but unless agreed then ppl will need stuff they don't need so they can use them to trade for stuff they do need or to guarantee they get at least something.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Arunas

[Irongut]

I am not sure what do you people consider ninja-looting. For older content everything is trash anyway, unless you want something for appearance. For sm ops I need on tokens etc. even if I have them on my current char for alts/minmaxing mods since its transferable via legacy. If you really want to limit how much ppl get, can use master loot, but unless agreed then ppl will need stuff they don't need so they can use them to trade for stuff they do need or to guarantee they get at least something.

 

That is ninja looting. You should only click Need if a piece of gear is for your class / role and better than the item you already have equipped; i.e. you actually need it. If it's for an alt... GREED. If it's for a companion... GREED. If it is lower rating than what you have... GREED. If it's for sale / trade / because it looks nice... GREED. If you want to break one of those rules ask permission, most groups will give you an item for a comp or alt if you ask first. If you don't a lot of people will kick and ignore you. Exceptions are crafting mats, decorations, etc.

 

You already get a guaranteed cookie at the end of the run in the form of comms.

[Memo-]

That is ninja looting. You should only click Need if a piece of gear is for your class / role and better than the item you already have equipped; i.e. you actually need it. If it's for an alt... GREED. If it's for a companion... GREED. If it is lower rating than what you have... GREED. If it's for sale / trade / because it looks nice... GREED. If you want to break one of those rules ask permission, most groups will give you an item for a comp or alt if you ask first. If you don't a lot of people will kick and ignore you. Exceptions are crafting mats, decorations, etc.

 

You already get a guaranteed cookie at the end of the run in the form of comms.

 

Nah, you're living in the past. If it's a transferrable piece, need for alts as well (operations at least, not so much leveling FPs ). I'm sure you would rather I come on my full HM geared main than a fresh alt to ensure a smooth run to the best of my ability. I'm there, I'm entitled to loot (usually it's one token per person, trash gear is free), I'm going to take my share. This "needing only for your class if it's an update" is so unnecessary.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Memo-

[LydMekk]

Nah, you're living in the past. If it's a transferrable piece, need for alts as well (operations at least, not so much leveling FPs ). I'm sure you would rather I come on my full HM geared main than a fresh alt to ensure a smooth run to the best of my ability. I'm there, I'm entitled to loot (usually it's one token per person, trash gear is free), I'm going to take my share. This "needing only for your class if it's an update" is so unnecessary.

 

I will kick you in a heartbeat and ensure my whole guild put you on ignore for attitudes like this. There is a million available DPS standing behind you waiting to take your place...

[Memo-]

I will kick you in a heartbeat and ensure my whole guild put you on ignore for attitudes like this. There is a million available DPS standing behind you waiting to take your place...

 

So you're saying:

 

We have a scenario where the loot rules are that everyone is entitled to one unassembled token. I have a choice of coming on my 186 geared healer, or my 198 geared healer. If I come on the healer with worse gear, I can roll on loot that's an upgrade for that toon, but at the same time it will require more of the team as a whole, since I'm "undergeared". But if I come on my 198 geared HM main with 204 mainhand, I can't roll on a piece for that other toon, even though my value for the team would be much more higher?

 

Okay then.

[Arunas]

I will kick you in a heartbeat and ensure my whole guild put you on ignore for attitudes like this. There is a million available DPS standing behind you waiting to take your place...

 

But don't everybody needs mods/enhancements? Which can mostly be ripped from set tokens, or, in case of enhancements even from other class gear? Or for you the gear progression stops at getting 6/6 set bonus in SM ops

Edited July 2, 2015 by Arunas

[LuxDragon]

Yeah. There will be times where we can't always go on the toon/role that we want. We use whatever it takes to either get the ops going or to ensure it gets cleared.

 

However, we are in an ops spending time and money to clear. So we should be entitled to one piece of loot, even if its for an alt. Now if people are needing and winning MORE than once, that's ninja looting.

 

Also, this is the sort of thing you ask about in every pug ops. "What are the loot rules?"

 

Less chance of pissing people off if things like that are established ahead of time. Personally, I don't care about lowbie ops like DF/DP. Just did DP today on GF, and people were needing all over the place. Some of us greeded and we didn't say a word if we got nothing, mainly cause we didn't care or couldn't be bothered.

Edited July 3, 2015 by LuxDragon

[Shredius]

Not sure if I am the baddie here, or if it's others... I want to say it's others, but it's not as clear cut, some might see me as wrong...

 

I was on my 56 Operative (which I am just now getting to Shadow of Revan and she's in all 172-178 at least) so I decided to do the weekly group finder for the commendations and xp. I get in with a tank and 3 dps all 60's, Blood Hunt. Going pretty well until during the husband/wife duo the tank is like "Wait how did we get a 56 in our group?" to which I replied "Because this is a 55-60 flashpoint" No comment after that. Then as I am an OPERATIVE I am staying in melee, running from the AoES, etc. But of course you can't avoid all damage. Being that I am melee I am not running all the way to the edge to hit the heals, maybe I should have but seeing as how neither of the two other DPS who were both ranged were doing it either, I died (even after emergency healing myself)

 

Vs. Shae Visla pretty much the same thing happened... with me trying to melee her as is my class role, the ranged were not bothering to hit the healing stations and I died.

 

Then I got a tell about how if I can't survive in tacticals, I shouldn't queue for them because I am wasting everyone else's time by not contributing to the fights.

 

So, like I said, not sure if it's my fault or not, but considering I've been playing since beta and have 21 characters spanning all 16 ACs... I would hope I know what I am doing by now.

 

Yes, you were the weird one for expecting people to have common sense.

Want my advice for tacs? Always assume your team is useless, you are on your own. You are a dps and your life gets low? move to the kolto, you are a tank and your life gets low? run to the kolto, you are a healer and somehow your life gets low? also go for the kolto.

 

If you always expect people to be useless you will be very happy when you get an actual team.

[Dark_Mithrandir]

Not sure if I am the baddie here, or if it's others... I want to say it's others, but it's not as clear cut, some might see me as wrong...

 

I was on my 56 Operative (which I am just now getting to Shadow of Revan and she's in all 172-178 at least) so I decided to do the weekly group finder for the commendations and xp. I get in with a tank and 3 dps all 60's, Blood Hunt. Going pretty well until during the husband/wife duo the tank is like "Wait how did we get a 56 in our group?" to which I replied "Because this is a 55-60 flashpoint" No comment after that. Then as I am an OPERATIVE I am staying in melee, running from the AoES, etc. But of course you can't avoid all damage. Being that I am melee I am not running all the way to the edge to hit the heals, maybe I should have but seeing as how neither of the two other DPS who were both ranged were doing it either, I died (even after emergency healing myself)

 

Vs. Shae Visla pretty much the same thing happened... with me trying to melee her as is my class role, the ranged were not bothering to hit the healing stations and I died.

 

Then I got a tell about how if I can't survive in tacticals, I shouldn't queue for them because I am wasting everyone else's time by not contributing to the fights.

 

So, like I said, not sure if it's my fault or not, but considering I've been playing since beta and have 21 characters spanning all 16 ACs... I would hope I know what I am doing by now.

 

There was no healers so who did u expect was responsible for your health aside from you....

Seems it really was your fault.

Playing since beta its not playing well.

But comeon it's tactical it can be soloed so cba.

[QuadraticAmoeba]

So you're saying:

 

We have a scenario where the loot rules are that everyone is entitled to one unassembled token. I have a choice of coming on my 186 geared healer, or my 198 geared healer. If I come on the healer with worse gear, I can roll on loot that's an upgrade for that toon, but at the same time it will require more of the team as a whole, since I'm "undergeared". But if I come on my 198 geared HM main with 204 mainhand, I can't roll on a piece for that other toon, even though my value for the team would be much more higher?

 

Okay then.

 

So, this is a problem easily resolved by setting loot rules at the beginning. On JC, the practice for level 60 ops is "one set piece per person" - no restriction on whether you REALLY need it or not since everyone has alts and always needs gear.

 

Just a few hours back, we ran a SM Rav + TOS with mostly known (to me at least) folks plus a couple of PUGs. We set loot rules as "one left side (relic, implant, ear) and one set piece per person, MH counts but OH is free roll". Then the folks said - why not decide beforehand who wants what? We had a few min discussion and everyone got one "allocated piece" as per their needs. One person wanted an implant so he traded his bracers for it, etc. We ended up doing Revan in 16-man so we got a second MH which was a free roll as well. Everyone got loot, folks brought their 192/198 mains so we one-shot all bosses - heck we used 1 real tank and one dps as tank since heals were very well geared. For Revan, we even did 1 tank, 1 heal, 6 dps - folks were comfortable swapping since loot was guaranteed and pre-allocated.

 

TL;DR for any group runs, best ask and settle loot rules at the beginning. For level 60 ops "one piece per person" is the most fair distribution.

[Memo-]

TL;DR for any group runs, best ask and settle loot rules at the beginning. For level 60 ops "one piece per person" is the most fair distribution.

 

This is what I was trying to convey to the guy. But apparently it's so damn important to only need if it's an item for your class and and upgrade, that there's really no argument.

[aerockyul]

Czerka HM (the one that's not Corporate Labs) last week

 

I'm healing, there's two good DPS and a relatively squishy tank (10k less HP than the rest of us...I know HP is not the end-all, but I figured I'd be spam healing him most of the time). Tank is actually very good at his job through the run. The boss fights take awhile longer than usual (one of the dps was complaining about this) because I am unable to help with any damage (I'm correct in that I'm spending almost all of the time healing the tank. Thankfully he's doing such a great job with aggro that I don't have to worry about healing the two dps all that much beyond topping off).

 

After the first two bosses, one of the dps disconnects. We're heading towards clearing out the final room before the end boss at this point. The three of us are going through some of the larger mobs in the room ok when suddenly the other dps decides to go do something else while we wait for the reconnect and puts his toon on follow. At first I didn't realize this was happening until we pull the next mob and the dps is just standing next to me doing nothing. The tank didn't notice it either, because he went straight for the mob. This takes forever because I have no margin of error in healing him at this point and he's not doing all that much damage (still awesome at keeping me from getting hit!). Somehow we survived this mob.

 

The last mob before going through the door to the boss, the tank jumps again. In the middle of the fight the disconnected dps reconnects, but he's a ways back and will not make it to us in time. This mob is a little larger than the last one and something happens where the tank takes such a massive amount of damage in an instant that I simply cannot save him. Right before he and I wipe the "following" dps who left returns and jumps right into the mob, as we're dying. I can't remember if he died too or if he stealthed out of the fight. He can't believe we wiped, anyway, and exclaims in chat. Well, we're at the last boss, so let's just get this done. Now that the other dps has rejoined, we actually clear the final boss really, really fast. Like, so fast that it's really weird that the first two bosses took so long.

 

Very competent run all around, other than the weirdness of the guy leaving in the middle of the fight and coming back in the middle of another fight, and wondering why the squishy tank and over-taxed healer couldn't get past that last mob alone (if this had been SM, I'd have been with him)

[Halinalle]

Czerka HM (the one that's not Corporate Labs) last week

 

I'm healing, there's two good DPS and a relatively squishy tank (10k less HP than the rest of us...

 

Did the tank really have less than 30k hp? (156/162 with high endurance armorings is around 30k at level 55).

Remember that recommended gear rating for level 55 HMFPs is 148. Anything above that = overgeared.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Halinalle

[aerockyul]

Did the tank really have less than 30k hp? (156/162 with high endurance armorings is around 30k at level 55).

Remember that recommended gear rating for level 55 HMFPs is 148. Anything above that = overgeared.

 

Yeah, I got into that group and thought I'm gonna be posting about this tank later, but like I said, he was really good at his job, even if he had a lot of green stuff on...

[Halinalle]

Yeah, I got into that group and thought I'm gonna be posting about this tank later, but like I said, he was really good at his job, even if he had a lot of green stuff on...

 

162s? 168s?

Always look at item rating. Item quality (green, blue, purple) means nothing.

[Mmurph]

This is what I was trying to convey to the guy. But apparently it's so damn important to only need if it's an item for your class and and upgrade, that there's really no argument.

 

That's not what you guys were talking about. If the loot rules are discussed and decided upon before you start, then go by those. If the rules weren't discussed, then the traditional Need/Greed rules should be used. That's what he was saying.

[LydMekk]

That's not what you guys were talking about. If the loot rules are discussed and decided upon before you start, then go by those. If the rules weren't discussed, then the traditional Need/Greed rules should be used. That's what he was saying.

 

Exactly.

[DawnAskham]

That's not what you guys were talking about. If the loot rules are discussed and decided upon before you start, then go by those. If the rules weren't discussed, then the traditional Need/Greed rules should be used. That's what he was saying.

 

Which is where loot drama happens as everyone's definition on 'need' is different, meaning there is no such thing as 'traditional' Need / Greed which can be applied in the absence of clear and specific rules without leading to issues or disagreements.

 

BTW - the term "ninja looting" is ONLY applicable to someone taking items outside clearly stated loot rules, typically through ML giving themselves or others items they would not have received following the stated rules.

 

Ninja looting is NOT someone winning one or more Need rolls when the run has not established a specific and clear definition of need.

 

To avoid loot drama (or as much of it as possible), specific and clear loot rules MUST be established and communicated at the start of the run.

 

Anyone joining and sticking with a group without specific and clear rules should assume everyone will need on everything, and has no basis to complain if the distribution of loot is not to their liking.

Edited July 5, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Halinalle]

Not group finder but PUG.

H4 in tunnels. While trying to get my lvl60 Guardian geared decently.

I ask if there's group for heroic and get invited almost instantly. We get fourth member quickly and decide to kill Lurker. Vanguard left after it and we 3man the heroic. I can't be undergeared. I had 9x 178 augments. I was a bit werid in heroic area. I got confused for some reason few times and walked away from big monster only to jump back in few seconds later. Guess I thought I was attacking the wrong enemy.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Halinalle

[JeKoCZ]

There once was a guy spamming the fleet every 10 seconds with the "must be well geared + link achiev lurker" (For an 8sm............!?) garbage at the end of his every lfg. I had nothing better to do as I was looking at the gtn for some cosmetic stuff (Goddamit those Mission Vao items are expensive on TRE btw) so I decided to join just to have a good laugh. I kept a look at him every now and then (He was a dps, same as me) and.. Look, I don't know if he left the school when he was younger so nobody told him or if he was just confused or simply doesn't understand the difference between left and right, but he missed each and every single cross. We get wiped once, no big deal, can happen. He starts making excuses saying "I had lag, couldn't move, bla bla bla" so we try again. We get wiped twice (This time a rock fell onto his face, he almost died by that, but he also missed the cross). This time he start accusing others for no apparent reason. We get wiped three times in a row. He rages, calls us undergeared (Which is strange as most of us where in aug 192/198 gear) and unskilled noobs, that he didn't have time to waste on an easy op as ToS and he left. After that run I never ever joined a group "advertised" by someone that spams the "must be well geared + link achiev xxx" garbage.

 

On a side note, I don't understand why a lot of people say that UL is hard, even on 8sm. I've done it only 5 times and nobody ever told me the tactics in detail for it. When someone said to me "You know tacts?", I was like "No dude, 1st (Or it was 2nd) time here" he just replied "Cool, just follow the guys with the mark when the cross appears, hide behind rocks when he barks and attack adds when they appear and you're good to go". I got wiped by UL "only" 3 times (All in the same run and it was that genious' fault in all 3 of them) and died at Revan once (Because I sneezed in the middle of the fight and fell down during the section when you "switch" plattforms), but still, if it wasn't for that genious (And my nose) I'd say that ToS 8sm is fairly easy as it is actually..

[iusCogens]

Lurker is only difficult if you 1) aren't killing adds fast enough, 2) don't know red circle is bad or what the rocks are for and 3) can't tell right and left. The entire fight is step one to three repeated every 45 seconds. Group composition may affect the difficulty of the fight; in one of the more difficult runs I've healed the three mDPS stood between the adds and ate the adds' melee attacks. Their health just melted so fast.

 

Speaking of Lurker, guildmate and I just finished our third ToS run during GF day when we saw a LFG at Lurker. One more run couldn't hurt, we signed up. Turned out to be a guild run, Ops leader asked us to join them in TS. We had a PT DPS; Ops leader said that the group would ignore cross mechanic and stack around the PT for Sonic Rebounder. Would've been fine and dandy, except there would always be someone who stood too far from the PT and be killed by red cross, or died to falling rocks. DPS was pitiful as well; I solo'd the add furthest from the door, by the time I was done and pew pew Lurker (Hydraulic Overrides FTW, rage storm damages no more) the other two were still alive with half health. What were the other four DPS doing?

 

Honestly, with everyone in TS it would've been easier to just do the mechanic properly.

Edited July 5, 2015 by iusCogens

[LuxDragon]

Underlurker can be hard for some groups, I guess.

 

Two GF stories on this vein.

 

Yesterday evening, I was on my sent, when a friend asks if I wanted to tank for ToS via GF. I couldn't, since I needed ultimate comms on the sent, so I told him I'd roll with him next time. His group is pretty much formed and away they went not long after.

 

I circle the fleet for about 10 more minutes, seeing if any groups were forming and looking for a DPS. After the 2nd, "DPS LFG for ToS", and a healer LFG, I had enough. I grab all 3 guys, form the ops myself, and ask for tank, a DPS with a taunt, and a pair of heals. A DPS buddy of mine sees gen chat and asks to come, giving us 4 DPS at least. I didn't once ask for gear check or achievements. I just wanted to get the thing started. 10 minutes later, we got a late night raid party going and we went in.

 

Smooth run all around. Everyone knew what they were doing, even when the tank had a disconnect during the walkers. My sent was tanking 2, another sent tanked 1 for the rest of the fight (About 35% on 2 and going fast). Still, that's a long time to tank unit 1 as a sentank. Heals stayed on top of everything. We burned though the op, no complaints about loot, and say good night. I like to think I led a pretty good raid group.

 

I check to see how my friend was doing. He hated his run. Apparently, heals sucked, DPS sucked, and he was tanking now. He started earlier than me, and was stuck on Underlurker after I had finished. One of the subpar DPS raged quit, and a heals followed not long after. His raid looked to be falling apart, so pitying him, I changed to a DPS sage, asked another friend if he could heal and we jump into the queue to get in.

 

We bounce in, and one-shot the UL. Easy.

 

Same with the rest of the bosses. My buddy couldn't help but whisper that the DPS and heals had improved substantially.

 

Observing the raid lead, he was sorta bossy, but I really couldn't fault the guy since they had probably been wiping a few times. Seemed a tad short on patience. However, I do remember him spamming gen chat for geared people with achievements, whereas I didn't care a bit.

 

Coincidence?

[DawnAskham]

Underlurker can be hard for some groups, I guess.

 

Two GF stories on this vein.

 

Yesterday evening, I was on my sent, when a friend asks if I wanted to tank for ToS via GF. I couldn't, since I needed ultimate comms on the sent, so I told him I'd roll with him next time. His group is pretty much formed and away they went not long after.

 

I circle the fleet for about 10 more minutes, seeing if any groups were forming and looking for a DPS. After the 2nd, "DPS LFG for ToS", and a healer LFG, I had enough. I grab all 3 guys, form the ops myself, and ask for tank, a DPS with a taunt, and a pair of heals. A DPS buddy of mine sees gen chat and asks to come, giving us 4 DPS at least. I didn't once ask for gear check or achievements. I just wanted to get the thing started. 10 minutes later, we got a late night raid party going and we went in.

 

Smooth run all around. Everyone knew what they were doing, even when the tank had a disconnect during the walkers. My sent was tanking 2, another sent tanked 1 for the rest of the fight (About 35% on 2 and going fast). Still, that's a long time to tank unit 1 as a sentank. Heals stayed on top of everything. We burned though the op, no complaints about loot, and say good night. I like to think I led a pretty good raid group.

 

I check to see how my friend was doing. He hated his run. Apparently, heals sucked, DPS sucked, and he was tanking now. He started earlier than me, and was stuck on Underlurker after I had finished. One of the subpar DPS raged quit, and a heals followed not long after. His raid looked to be falling apart, so pitying him, I changed to a DPS sage, asked another friend if he could heal and we jump into the queue to get in.

 

We bounce in, and one-shot the UL. Easy.

 

Same with the rest of the bosses. My buddy couldn't help but whisper that the DPS and heals had improved substantially.

 

Observing the raid lead, he was sorta bossy, but I really couldn't fault the guy since they had probably been wiping a few times. Seemed a tad short on patience. However, I do remember him spamming gen chat for geared people with achievements, whereas I didn't care a bit.

 

Coincidence?

 

If only we had group combat logs (and parsing / meters) to see who isn't performing to address issues rather than playing the game of "Guess who isn't pulling their weight?" or "I wonder why we are failing?" all because the devs thought it would be a great idea to hide group combat data so the 'everyone gets a medal' crowd never gets their feelings hurt when called out for poor performance.

Edited July 6, 2015 by DawnAskham

[CheaterLL]

Lurker is only difficult if you 1) aren't killing adds fast enough, 2) don't know red circle is bad or what the rocks are for and 3) can't tell right and left. The entire fight is step one to three repeated every 45 seconds. Group composition may affect the difficulty of the fight; in one of the more difficult runs I've healed the three mDPS stood between the adds and ate the adds' melee attacks. Their health just melted so fast.

My guild killed UL HM with 4 mDPS on friday. One-shot. It was the first time my healer has seen a HM 60 ops and I was sitting at 48.5k HP.

 

One of our mDPS is disabled and can't tell left from right. He has never messed up a cross.

 

So much for the UL2hard and <50k=undergeared ppl.

[Halinalle]

If only we had group combat logs (and parsing / meters) to see who isn't performing to address issues rather than playing the game of "Guess who isn't pulling their weight?" or "I wonder why we are failing?" all because the devs thought it would be a great idea to hide group combat data so the 'everyone gets a medal' crowd never gets their feelings hurt when called out for poor performance.

 

If we had addons then people would start demanding 4,5k dps on Underlurker before you can join SM ToS run.

 

WoW had those. Players became lazy.

 

DPS isn't that difficult:

I decided to check how much damage I do because I tanked almost everything yesterday apart from 55HM.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/44492

186-190 without set bonus should be around 3,3k-3,7k, right?

If you check my rotation/abilities used then you notice that I'm not even trying.

Mostly 190, some 186, 192s only in bracers and armoring and mod in OH, no set bonus

Augments: 9x 186; 8x Str, 1x Accuracy

Accuracy: 99,36 melee

Crit: 31%

Surge: 71% (yeah, stats are all over the place )

Edited July 6, 2015 by Halinalle