Eric Musco please enlight me

[iamthehoyden]

I agree. I'm even fine charging extra for "NEW" hairstyle options...but not normal insignificant crap.

 

Customization does KEEP players happy. It's a QoL feature that adds to retention as people waste time fooling around with it vs. playing. Charging RL $ for it is just cheap imo.

 

APB allows MASSIVE freedom in customization - gear, clothing, characters, custom logos, vehicles, music - my son spends days at a time designing cars for people, not doing any missions, he loves it! It's a full time "activity" for him that he enjoys - as a sub, he gets more options, but customization is free to everyone.

I was waiting to see how this all plays out, till we got some details. I'm good with how the Cathar are being deployed. 600 cc - the same as any other race unlock - is a fair price in my opinion (YMMV, of course). I like the way the dyes are coming out, for the most part. The fact that artifice is getting something valuable to craft is awesome.

 

The kiosk...not so much. If they provided something along the lines of vouchers that people could trade on the gtn for use at the kiosk, I'd be perfectly fine with it. But the fact that it's ONLY available through CCs is bulls**t. Not sure why they did this. The market would provide the demand, people would buy vouchers and put them on the GTN, others would buy them. In fact, you'll probably see a reduction in the number of people using the kiosk because these services are not traded on the GTN versus what you would have otherwise - I know I'd be willing to spend a LOT more credits for customization than I will CC and there are people out there willing to buy them with real money and sell them for credits. It is a system that has worked well with the armor and unlocks. Foolish. They could have made more money by providing that option. Perhaps new details will come out that they'll be implementing a system like that, but based on what we know currently, this is BS.

 

Edit: Crap, I forgot to add what I quoted TUXs for, lol. QoL, being able to customize your character is something that adds a huge amount of attachment (and thus loyalty) to your characters and the game. They clearly understand that, but some of these decisions are just poor.

Edited May 1, 2013 by iamthehoyden

[Radzkie]

Hey everyone,

 

There is clearly some frustration around this but I believe there are also some misconceptions about Cathar and our intent for subscribers so I wanted to hopefully clarify some of that for you...

 

-eric

 

Your post made me feel a lot better. I worried that the Devs would get carried away with the Cartel Market, and start charging us subs for every single thing that comes out.

 

Thanks, Eric.

[curtkram]

Sorry if that's how you interpret the coins as something you pay for... but that's your fault. It's clearly listed as "complimentary" and you sign the ToS so you're saying you understand it as such. So really, you're the only one going back on your word and now saying you're paying for something that you agreed was "free of charge". And those "free of charge" coins can get you a race unlock, thus making it "free of charge". So you're not spending a dime on the Cathar race.

don't feel sorry for me. i was here for the first user exodus (was part of it) and don't really care if there is another one either way. feel sorry for the people that are getting hurt by this. i was trying to help anyone who wants to understand why others feel hurt because of this. also, if i pay $15 for something it doesn't matter if you call it free or not, i still payed $15.

 

And when you say "the standard for all new releases of content"... please change that to "new releases of vanity-related stuff". ...

the planet wasn't vanity. some people might think playable races (which were all open to subscribers when they switched to f2p) count as content too. i wasn't suggesting that this *will* be the future. my comment was on the perception of the future that could be. the recent content release cost real life money for the expansion. it sounds like the next release will only be an addition to the cartel market. if a person was paying a subscription with the expectation of access to new content, surely you can understand why they might feel let down?

 

didn't they say cathar was 600 credits? and monthly allowance under subscription is 500? 100 credit gap. i don't have the security thing, so i guess my subscription isn't good enough for a free cathar?

[PariahMessiah]

Your post made me feel a lot better. I worried that the Devs would get carried away with the Cartel Market, and start charging us subs for every single thing that comes out.

 

Thanks, Eric.

 

They still will. This is the test, to see if we'll give them this inch.

[tman_ac]

It's not just the Cathar. Charging people for appearance changes, that are free in every other MMO to subscribers, is another point brushed to the side.

 

For example: If I make a new character, will the *new* customization options be available to newly created characters? Or are the *new* customizations specifically bound to the Cartel Market. This is where subs have a rightful concern. Character Creation is something that most role players // mmo players take seriously... having to pay for different looks is absurd.

 

Basically this nails it. I can't believe that loyal customers (subscribers) have to pay for appearance changes.

[Lostpenguins]

They still will. This is the test, to see if we'll give them this inch.

Oh, I already heard this when they had color crystals, and the reputation vendor for the CM... yes, yes... let's always fall back to this old cliche

[Lostpenguins]

Basically this nails it. I can't believe that loyal customers (subscribers) have to pay for appearance changes.

You have to pay? Really? Do you not notice those free coins you get every month? Looks like you're not paying then, are you?

[Soluss]

This quote clearly indicates that Cartel & content updates are handled separately yet the information on 2.1 released thus far indicates they are now one in the same. This isn't to say you shouldn't charge for Cathar & Appearance Designer Kiosk but rather they shouldn't be the main features of 2.1; it's also ambiguous how rooted in the Cartel store Dye Modules are.

 

If in-fact the bulk of 2.1 is still non-cartel, I see no issue.

 

This is my problem with it. Cartel items should not take up the bulk of a 6-8 week content update.

[Andryah]

You might want to get that record player checked - looks like you need to replace the needle.

 

If different random people did not post the same thing every 5 minutes in the thread, he would not have to keep repeating himself.

 

Many people actually don't read prior posts before transcribing their complaint.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Andryah

[Lostpenguins]

You might want to get that record player checked - looks like you need to replace the needle.

Well, people like to walk into this thread and make some blanket statement showing how they have a serious lack of understanding or recognition of their complimentary cartel coins. It's really mind boggling. Don't they get email notifications telling them that their complimentary coins have arrived?

[Lostpenguins]

This is my problem with it. Cartel items should not take up the bulk of a 6-8 week content update.

Okay, this I can understand. I can get behind you on that in that a patch that is primarily CM driven may not sit well with many who don't consider the CM content.

[iamthehoyden]

Well, people like to walk into this thread and make some blanket statement showing how they have a serious lack of understanding or recognition of their complimentary cartel coins. It's really mind boggling. Don't they get email notifications telling them that their complimentary coins have arrived?

You're simply being repetative. You're not adding any new information. You've got it in your head that your view is the only one that is right. I would try to convince you to consider that others may have a different view and there may be some validity there, but after seeing the dogged persistance you have in not only sharing but attempting to pound that view into every person who disagrees with you, I can clearly see it's a lost cause.

[Andryah]

Okay, this I can understand. I can get behind you on that in that a patch that is primarily CM driven may not sit well with many who don't consider the CM content.

 

True, but personally, I'll wait to see the full patch notes before proclaiming 2.1 as a CM only patch. Half the dyes btw are not available in the CM (only in game)... so just looking at that little microcosm.. yeah.... going to wait to see the full patch notes.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Andryah

[SavingPrincess]

I think a fair solution to the "Subs pay for Cathar" issue, is simple.

 

Up the Cartel Coin grant for subs to 1,500cc per month. That way we are literally getting what we pay for.

 

Other F2P/SubOption MMO's do this, so when they release new content in their marketplace, I never feel cheated or taken advantage of for my devotion. I feel like I'm getting a BENEFIT for being a sub. All the sub-oriented options, and a healthy marketplace grant if I want to purchase cosmetic stuff.

 

This is an extremely simple solution.

 

If BW/EA only sees this as "well we will lose X in Cartel Coin purchases" and not as in "if we offer this, more frequent Cartel Purchasers will turn sub" then I give up. This is simple economics/psychology. If an F2P spends $5-10 on Cartel purchases a month, and sees that sub's get $15 worth of "free" coins for being sub, the option to sub becomes much more enticing. Then the new sub-converts will be more liberal with their spending, buy more things, and will likely continue to spend the additional $5-10 / mo. on TOP of their sub fee, simply because of the psychology of "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" for their sub payment.

Edited May 1, 2013 by SavingPrincess
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[Andryah]

I think a fair solution to the "Subs pay for Cathar" issue, is simple.

 

Up the Cartel Coin grant for subs to 1,500cc per month. That way we are literally getting what we pay for.

 

Other F2P/SubOption MMO's do this, so when they release new content in their marketplace, I never feel cheated or taken advantage of for my devotion. I feel like I'm getting a BENEFIT for being a sub. All the sub-oriented options, and a healthy marketplace grant if I want to purchase cosmetic stuff.

 

This is an extremely simple solution.

 

If you want to use other Freemium MMOs as a reference... the ones I am directly familiar with give ~ 1/3 of your subscription price to you in currency each month. So, on comparison... SWTOR seems to be right in the groove of the market... just like they are with a $15 subscription price as well.

 

Giving you 1500 coins per month would effectively be giving you your entire subscription price back to you in coins each month. Makes no sense.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Andryah

[darthnamel]

I think a fair solution to the "Subs pay for Cathar" issue, is simple.

 

Up the Cartel Coin grant for subs to 1,500cc per month. That way we are literally getting what we pay for.

 

Other F2P/SubOption MMO's do this, so when they release new content in their marketplace, I never feel cheated or taken advantage of for my devotion. I feel like I'm getting a BENEFIT for being a sub. All the sub-oriented options, and a healthy marketplace grant if I want to purchase cosmetic stuff.

 

This is an extremely simple solution.

 

Agreed. This is a post Bioware should read.

[branmakmuffin]

Also, as a disclaimer to anyone: Don't try and pull the "What if operations cost CC coins to activate?" That's totally different from pixels in the game that don't involve any gameplay whatsoever.

So now you're on the "If I don't classify it as content, then it's not content" kick.

 

If it's in the game, it's content, whether that's adventuring content or convenience features or customizations. "Fluff" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't do WZs, Ops or FPs, so to me, those are "fluff."

 

You're simply being repetative. You're not adding any new information. You've got it in your head that your view is the only one that is right. I would try to convince you to consider that others may have a different view and there may be some validity there, but after seeing the dogged persistance you have in not only sharing but attempting to pound that view into every person who disagrees with you, I can clearly see it's a lost cause.

I'd still like to know why it's so important to several posters that the CCs be classified as "free." It's almost as if they have a vested interest in that classification. More likely, though, it's just plain stubbornness. Once it was pointed out that the CCs are in fact not free and they realized the truth of it, they found (continue to find) themselves unwilling or unable to admit they were (and are) wrong.

 

And to those who think the current stipend does not provide adequate value, the solution is simple: go Preferred and buy CC a la carte. I guarantee you BWEA is not going to increase the size of the CC stipend.

Edited May 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Andryah]

I'd still like to know why it's so important to several posters why the CCs be classified as "free." It's almost as if they have a vested interest in that classification. More likely, though, it's just plain stubbornness. Once it was pointed out that the CCs are in fact not free and they realized the truth of it, they found (continue to find) themselves unwilling or unable to admit they were (and are) wrong.

 

A better question, a more objective one, would be: why do a small number of people insist that something given by a merchant as a complimentary item (something other people pay real $$ for) to a customer is not complimentary. Such a position is out of step with the entire free market on the planet.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Andryah

[DarthVengeant]

You know, in other MMO's you can just buy dye or craft it. Would it be such a sin to do that in SWTOR? No. IN fact, if you did that your SUBSCRIBERS would LOVE YOU for it. Or does EA make every single thing in this game a cash grab now? Does the nanny state and greedy gestapo of EA need to ruin every single thing Bioware does now? Yes.

 

The worst thing Bioware EVER did was joining EA. Things like this are more proof of that. Somehow the 15 bucks I give you every month just isn't enough....so, when is enough? Tell me.

 

Try giving BACK to your consumers once in awhile. You'll do more business for it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by DarthVengeant

[Andryah]

You know, in other MMO's you can just buy dye or craft it. Would it be such a sin to do that in SWTOR? No. IN fact, if you did that your SUBSCRIBERS would LOVE YOU for it. Or does EA make every single thing in this game a cash grab now? Does the nanny state and greedy gestapo of EA need to ruin every single thing Bioware does now? Yes.

 

The worst thing Bioware EVER did was joining EA. Things like this are more proof of that.

 

Roughly HALF of the dyes coming in 2.1 are not going to be available in the CM.... only in game.

 

Source: http://dulfy.net/2013/05/01/swtor-patch-2-1-dyes-modules-qa-with-bioware/

Edited May 1, 2013 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

You know, in other MMO's you can just buy dye or craft it.

Name an MMO that was sub-based, then went F2P, lacked certain customization options pre-F2P then added those customizations to the game and included them as part of the basic subscription fee rather selling them for points/coins/whatever via the game store.

 

This is what the store is going to be for. If you don't like it, go Preferred or stop playing. Those are your options if you think subbing is a rip-off.

Edited May 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Pietrastor]

Roughly HALF of the dyes coming in 2.1 are not going to be available in the CM.... only in game.

 

Source: http://dulfy.net/2013/05/01/swtor-patch-2-1-dyes-modules-qa-with-bioware/

Wanna bet CM will get all the "normal" and obviously good-looking/desired (black/white, red, bblack/golden) modules?

[DarthVengeant]

Roughly HALF of the dyes coming in 2.1 are not going to be available in the CM.... only in game.

 

Source: http://dulfy.net/2013/05/01/swtor-patch-2-1-dyes-modules-qa-with-bioware/

 

And you can bet the colors people are really going to want are going to be Cartel or Rep bound.

 

I want a black outfit. Period!!!

 

And why can't the KOTOR items be dyed? What idiot thought that up? The Bastila outfit would look AWESOME in black...not ugly brown. Again, Bioware has no understanding of aesthetics. The majority of the armor in this game is either flat out ugly design, or colored wrong.

[branmakmuffin]

And you can bet the colors people are really going to want are going to be Cartel or Rep bound.

 

I want a black outfit. Period!!!

And they know that. Of course the "cool" colors are going to be more expensive or harder to get.

 

The majority of the armor in this game is either flat out ugly design, or colored wrong.

Well that I agree with.

Edited May 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[iamthehoyden]

A better question, a more objective one, would be: why do a small number of people insist that something given by a merchant as a complimentary item (something other people pay real $$ for) to a customer is not complimentary. Such a position is out of step with the entire free market on the planet.

I can answer that for you. I can also forcast that you probably won't give my view any credence, but that's okay. Can't say it'll keep me awake at night, and maybe someone else who was wondering the same thing may gain some insight into my thought process.

 

The issue that I have is with the casting of the coins as "free." Using the term "complimentary" is, to me, simply marketing semantics. When they changed over the f2p, one of the things they did was to include 500 cc per month to all subscribers. In my mind, and many others', those ccs are bundled into our subscription. We get them, and a customizable UI, and access to an unlimited number of flashpoints, and so on...as part of our subscription. I know that that inclusion goes into my personal calculations as to whether the game retains enough value for me to continue my subscription.

 

Since I pay for these coins through my sub, they are not free. That's where the disagreement comes in between what LostPenguins keeps saying over and over again and where I and others stand. Honestly, this is not a huge issue, or shouldn't be - it's a difference in the way we view those coins, nothing more.