Slavery in Star Wars

[FuryoftheStars]

It takes a few moments (i.e. more than a second) to type the calculation into the calculator, during which your brain is already firing off hundreds of signals per second to your fingers telling them exactly which buttons to push. Now explain to me again, how does the calculator work faster than the brain?

 

The problem is not so much in the ability of a computer to process at a certain speed rivaling the human brain, the problem is the interface between humans and computers. Computers can only operate at a speed at which humans can interact with them. Which gives most humans the false impression that their brains are actually slower than the computers because their computers are pushing out information almost instantly after the person types something into the computer. This is not the case, because your brain is constantly sending signals to other parts of your body at millisecond speeds that make even a computer look slow by comparison.

 

Ok, I think I'm understanding a bit better what you're trying to say, but you're still off. Referring back to a previous post:

You do realize that the human brain is essentially the equivalent of a 1,680,000 MHz Processor? Possibly more... The worlds highest clock speed in computers sits right around a 3.6 GHz Dual Core. 3.6 GHz is basically 3,600 MHz even doubled that is nowhere close to what the human brain is capable of. So I think the Human brain has a higher clock speed than a computer. We cannot actually calculate the processing power of the brain though.

Yes, it is capable of more. You were way low on your estimate of the brain. It is capable of (roughly) 20 million billion calculations per second (or 20 Peta-flops). To put your number into perspective, that's 1.68 million million, or thousand billion (Tera-flop). That's a factor of a little more than x10,000 less.

 

Now, the world's fastest computer to date: the Titan, at 17.59 million billion calculations per second (or 17.59 Peta-flops). So in straight numbers, you are correct... the human brain is capable of more calculations per second than a computer (to date). However, the margin of lead is less than you believed.

 

The real kicker I find on the Titan? With a little over a third of the number of processor cores as the previous leader (560,640 vs 1,572,864), it beats it out by over a full Peta-flop (previous leader was 16.32 Peta-flops). Imagine the possibilities there?

 

Additionally, you really can't directly compare the brain to a single processor (or regular PC). Each neuron within your brain, actually only operates at 200 Hz. It's the fact that we have ~100 billion of them with roughly 1000 connections each that makes the calculations so high. Also, we can multi-task... a PC processor (non-multicore) can only take serialized inputs. Furthermore, you cannot take the full processing power of your brain and apply it to 1 application like a supercomputer (the Titan) can. Our brains are more like multiple regular PCs, each with it's own dedicated task(s), that then feeds back into one source/output.

 

Final thoughts, though? A calculator is akin to 1 section of the brain... the part that does math. So, when comparing calculation speed against a calculator, it's actually unfair to also take into consideration nerve signals for moving fingers and heart beat and breathing and everything else. A calculator doesn't have to worry about any of these. As such, I still maintain it is faster. Just for a quick comparison, time yourself on the following math problem, first in your head, then punching it into a calculator: 1549 * 7543 (<- and really, in comparison to what a lot of calculators are capable of handling, that's an extremely simple math problem). And while you're doing that and thinking about the method you're using to multiply it out, also take this into consideration: the way a computer (and calculator) does multiplicative math is it takes the first number and adds it onto itself the second number of times (see last paragraph in link).

Edited May 1, 2013 by FuryoftheStars

[Beniboybling]

So in order for slavery to be "unnecessary", at minimum two things would have to be true: droids would need to be relatively more efficient than organic slave labor at all tasks, and droids would have to be able to be supplied in quantities sufficient to account for galactic labor demand. Neither of these things is demonstrable. They are both possible, but no one can say for certain that they are true, meaning that no one can say for certain that organic slavery was economically inefficient compared to the use of droid labor.

I think we can, as in say organic slavery is economically efficient compared to the use of droid labor.

 

Because:

 

 

• Slaves can be acquired for free, by conquering planets, raiding etc. as you said.
   
   
  
• Droids have to be manufactured which costs resources to build the factory and the droid itself, as well as human capital to man the factory, design the factory and the droids etc.
  

 

So naturally if slaves are cheaper to acquire than droids there are going to be a whole lot more slaves on the labor market which will drive prices down. So anyone looking to purchase some labor and lacking in much morals will opt for the cheaper option: the organic slave. Hence why slavery seems to be favored over droids.

[Beniboybling]

Except by your very claim, Astromech Droids are designed for the sole purpose of maintaining Starships. Yet in Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, R2-D2 can be seen on Jabba the Hutt's Sail Barge performing the tasks of a Waiter. And I know for a fact that C-3PO has on occasion served beverages as well. So they at least in that regard have the ability to serve as Wait Staff in common.

Indeed a droid can be adapted to perform different roles, but if anything this is demeaning as in the end they are carefully designed to fulfill a specific purpose and anything else will seem a degradation and neglect of that purpose and ability. For example someone with a PhD in whatever is not going to opt to be a dustbin man or a waiter.

 

Neither would an astromech droid ever willing opt to be a waiter on a Hutt Sail Barge. So given that they would only want to fulfill one role it makes no sense to give them the freedom to perform other roles which may in fact endanger them. If a droid chooses to leave the protection of their master they risk all kinds of dangers from being scrapped to stolen. And that's not even considering how a droid of the likes of C-3P0 would ever get anywhere by himself.

 

Droids are if anything, like babies, clever they may be but without the aid of sentient beings they are vulnerable and incapable.

[Euphrosyne]

I think we can, as in say organic slavery is economically efficient compared to the use of droid labor.

 

Because:

 

 

• Slaves can be acquired for free, by conquering planets, raiding etc. as you said.
   
   
  
• Droids have to be manufactured which costs resources to build the factory and the droid itself, as well as human capital to man the factory, design the factory and the droids etc.
  

 

So naturally if slaves are cheaper to acquire than droids there are going to be a whole lot more slaves on the labor market which will drive prices down. So anyone looking to purchase some labor and lacking in much morals will opt for the cheaper option: the organic slave. Hence why slavery seems to be favored over droids.

Cheap acquisition does not necessarily mean cheap operation costs. While it may be relatively costless for some groups, e.g. pirates or slavers, to acquire slaves in battle, that does not mean that it is relatively costless to use those slaves. Slaves require sustenance and shelter; droids require maintenance costs. If droid maintenance costs are sufficiently low, or if droid efficiency over slave use is sufficiently high, it may become more efficient to make use of droid labor over organic slave labor at some point, even if enslavement transaction costs are significantly lower than droid manufacturing costs. The problem is that we don't know any of those costs, so we can't compare them.

[Beniboybling]

Cheap acquisition does not necessarily mean cheap operation costs. While it may be relatively costless for some groups, e.g. pirates or slavers, to acquire slaves in battle, that does not mean that it is relatively costless to use those slaves. Slaves require sustenance and shelter; droids require maintenance costs. If droid maintenance costs are sufficiently low, or if droid efficiency over slave use is sufficiently high, it may become more efficient to make use of droid labor over organic slave labor at some point, even if enslavement transaction costs are significantly lower than droid manufacturing costs. The problem is that we don't know any of those costs, so we can't compare them.

You have a point, but then again if the initial cost is significantly lower this may offset any minor long term costs. Cheap also means easily replaceable, which means upkeep is not exactly a priority. If a slave dies, buy another.

 

Nonetheless I'd say that a slave would cost less to maintain than a droid. Given that for a slave you only have to afford food and water (of poor cheap quality) whereas a droid requires power and replacement parts, as well as the skilled worker to administer repairs. And unlike with food and water their is little room for variation in terms of price and quality.

[ZahirS]

You have a point, but then again if the initial cost is significantly lower this may offset any minor long term costs. Cheap also means easily replaceable, which means upkeep is not exactly a priority. If a slave dies, buy another.

 

Nonetheless I'd say that a slave would cost less to maintain than a droid. Given that for a slave you only have to afford food and water (of poor cheap quality) whereas a droid requires power and replacement parts, as well as the skilled worker to administer repairs. And unlike with food and water their is little room for variation in terms of price and quality.

 

Depends beni, if the parts of the droids are mass produced (which they are) means its cheaper to upkeep a droid, while slaves also need other costs like medicine, house, etc not even counting on emotional stuff they need to work so its more probable that droids are more cost-effective even for replacement (newer droids).

 

Droids are somewhat advanced in star wars they can even be sent to do complex choir like missions, so they are perfectly fit for house maintainence, ship repairs, you name it any repetitive work can be done by droids, slaves on the other hand probably need to learn to do those things first and then do them (unwilling) noone wants to be slave.

[schmel]

If I remember the back story correctly, Han rescued Chewy from slavery, and thus the life debt.

Yes, that is what I meant when I referenced Chewy as a slave.

[Beniboybling]

Depends beni, if the parts of the droids are mass produced (which they are) means its cheaper to upkeep a droid, while slaves also need other costs like medicine, house, etc not even counting on emotional stuff they need to work so its more probable that droids are more cost-effective even for replacement (newer droids).

 

Droids are somewhat advanced in star wars they can even be sent to do complex choir like missions, so they are perfectly fit for house maintenance, ship repairs, you name it any repetitive work can be done by droids, slaves on the other hand probably need to learn to do those things first and then do them (unwilling) noone wants to be slave.

Food and water is all a slave needs, their owner's aren't exactly going to set up a welfare state. Medicine? You get sick, you die. House? You live in a slave pen. (Or if your lucky, your master's house.) Emotional issues? Don't expect therapy, expect to be replaced.

 

Granted, a droid is more suited to specific more complex roles. However in terms of slave labor a slave is perfectly adequate, all the need to do is lift stuff etc. And of course humans can perform service roles with relative ease, and then aesthetics and power symbols come into play, making them more appealing options as opposed to droids.

[ZahirS]

Food and water is all a slave needs, their owner's aren't exactly going to set up a welfare state. Medicine? You get sick, you die. House? You live in a slave pen. (Or if your lucky, your master's house.) Emotional issues? Don't expect therapy, expect to be replaced.

 

Granted, a droid is more suited to specific more complex roles. However in terms of slave labor a slave is perfectly adequate, all the need to do is lift stuff etc. And of course humans can perform service roles with relative ease, and then aesthetics and power symbols come into play, making them more appealing options as opposed to droids.

 

Sorry you are wrong beni, droids are more cost effective, wars to conquer planets aren't free so slaves are pretty expensive to acquire. Also droids are capable of self-repairs because you can have a droid to repair other droids.

 

Slaves would never do repetitive choirs exactly the same way, droids can do repetitive tasks exactly the same way, less margin of error too.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ZahirS

[TheronFett]

Slavery exists in the Star Wars universe for the same reason it exists in the real world: Group A exerting power over Group B.

[ZahirS]

Slavery exists in the Star Wars universe for the same reason it exists in the real world: Group A exerting power over Group B.

 

True, the only thing that doesn't add up is that droids make better slaves than taking humans for example.

[Spetulhu]

Sorry you are wrong beni, droids are more cost effective, wars to conquer planets aren't free so slaves are pretty expensive to acquire.

 

But if you were going to conquer the planet anyway the slaves are essentially a free bonus. Or at least a way to recoup some of the costs of the war. And you get rid of troublesome populations in the process if you happen to dislike this or that race for some reason.

 

Criminals sold into slavery are also essentially free, or at least the price you get covers some of the damages they've caused.

 

Debt slavery existed in some places too. Get too deep into debt and your creditors can take you as a slave.

[FuryoftheStars]

True, the only thing that doesn't add up is that droids make better slaves than taking humans for example.

 

Well, they kind of are using them as well, really, it's just that they're not classified as "slaves". They're droids.

[Beniboybling]

Sorry you are wrong beni, droids are more cost effective, wars to conquer planets aren't free so slaves are pretty expensive to acquire. Also droids are capable of self-repairs because you can have a droid to repair other droids.

 

Slaves would never do repetitive choirs exactly the same way, droids can do repetitive tasks exactly the same way, less margin of error too.

But if you were going to conquer the planet anyway the slaves are essentially a free bonus. Or at least a way to recoup some of the costs of the war. And you get rid of troublesome populations in the process if you happen to dislike this or that race for some reason.

 

Criminals sold into slavery are also essentially free, or at least the price you get covers some of the damages they've caused.

 

Debt slavery existed in some places too. Get too deep into debt and your creditors can take you as a slave.

Couldn't have said it much better myself. What's more, leaving the population free is actually a costly disadvantage. Those people, as free citizens, have to be provided for. That means welfare, infrastructure etc. and that is costly. Riots and resistance needs to me put down, costing weapons and manpower and ultimately credits. All these problems can be solved by enslaving the population, which not only eliminates these potential costs but actually creates revenue. So naturally any war-mongering nation is going to be enslaving populations, and flooding the labor market with organic slaves.

 

In response to your other points. I'm curious as to why people bring up 'repair droids' which are actually even more expensive. Repair droids must be purchased, repair parts must be purchased also for the droid to use and that droid itself requires costly maintenance and power. Your effectively doubling the cost. Self-repairs is much the same, you still have to pay for the parts, the droid does not magically create them. The only thing it saves is time and effort on the organic's part, something that wouldn't even come into the equation with a slave who requires no maintenance at all.

 

And I agree, complex tasks are best suited to droids. But simple labor tasks are easily handled by organics, there are no mistakes to make. And in reponse to your point about slaves being unwilling, they can be broken. If you watch TCW you would have experienced this, the Zygerrian slavers have an entire complex dedicating to breaking slaves into subservience. Costly? Not when those slaves are effectively nullifying the costs (if not making profits) but engaging to productive labor when in such complexes.

[Beniboybling]

True, the only thing that doesn't add up is that droids make better slaves than taking humans for example.

As a rule of thumb: better usually means more expensive.

[ZahirS]

Slaves are not easy to acquire if you actually read history a war is one of the most expensives things to do, that why there are slavers which essentially capture people and sell them as slaves.

 

While Droids are nuts a bolts, and can be repaired with minimal effort and are 100% loyal if programmed right, slaves on the other hand need implants to prevent them of leaving.

 

Better not always mean more expensive

[Volomon]

True, the only thing that doesn't add up is that droids make better slaves than taking humans for example.

 

Their is nothing illogical about that, slave owners could have used oxen or horses for most of the labor they used slaves for. Guess what human life is cheaper, because it's more abundant and you can keep one alive on potatoes, or about 15 bucks a month or so. There actually still is a slave market today. Guess what slaves are still cheap even today. In some countries you can pick up a child slave off the street for free still today, no protective laws, no parents, guess what it's kitchen time. If the child gets to expensive you can chop off their limbs and put them on the street as beggers, like they do in some countries. India is an example. Think Ukraine has some issues with this as well. There are still slaves in America as well, it tends to be out further west, California, New Mexico, Texas. Though these are foreign slaves, and used for deviant practices. Some of these slaves are even underaged.

 

Then again you can buy one over seas then bring them over think the price is around $1300, for your standard person. Of course if they learn how to read and understand english, well you going to prison.

 

Think about the price of droid, and then the maintenance. The only thing that doesn't add up is why there isn't more slavery, than droids. Its probably even cheaper to kill the slave and replace them, depending on the planet you could replace it for free or for cheap. Why pay even $1 for a droid when you can get a human for free.

 

Also there's no need for a leash or some sophisticated equipment, woman stay with their abusive husbands all the time. Pain and punishment has it's own way of being a leash.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Volomon

[ZahirS]

Their is nothing illogical about that, slave owners could have used oxen or horses for most of the labor they used slaves for. Guess what human life is cheaper, because it's more abundant and you can keep one alive on potatoes, or about 15 bucks a month or so. There actually still is a slave market today. Guess what slaves are still cheap even today. In some countries you can pick up a child slave off the street for free still today. If the child gets to expensive you can chop off their limbs and put them on the street as beggers, like they do in some countries. India is an example. Think Ukraine has some issues with this as well. There are still slaves in America as well, it tends to be out further west, California, New Mexico, Texas.

 

Then again you can buy one over seas then bring them over think the price is around $1300, for your standard person. Of course if they learn how to read and understand english, well you going to prison.

 

Think about the price of droid, and then the maintenance. The only thing that doesn't add up is why there isn't more slavery, than droids.

 

Please read the above posts, I already said why droids are more efficient slaves than aliens or humans.

 

Secondly I live in mexico and haven't seen any slavery here and its forbbiden by law, also in India is not allowed to have slaves.

 

Im sorry you just need to read up more history, the only reason slavery existed is because it was the most effiecient way back in Roman times or Greece, they didn't have droids or else they would have opted for droids.

 

You see if a droid is better at choirs it means there is more demand for droids

[FuryoftheStars]

The only thing that doesn't add up is why there isn't more slavery, than droids.

 

Well, it's not widespread, at least, because it's illegal in the Republic. Some worlds do have it despite this, though. Tatooine (for example) was too far out for the Republic's "influence", if I remember correctly from Ep I.

[SerikFox]

(Note: this is not a discussion about the morality of slavery--please don't turn it into one.) I was watching some old episodes from season four of The Clone Wars series and they got me thinking: why do they have slaves at all in the star wars universe? In those episodes, they depict the slaves doing things like digging and lifting heavy objects--things that could be done more easily and cheaply by droids. The only case where I could understand (but OBVIOUSLY NOT CONDONE) slavery is with female (or male, I suppose) slaves who were enslaved for their sex appeal--something that a droid could not necessarily replicate. Slavery is everywhere in Star Wars--from Chewbacca to Ackbar to Anakin--but it just doesn't seem to make sense. Can anyone help me out here?

 

In those particular episodes they are being "processed" when doing those things meaning, yes, droids could do it, but it's intended to break their wills. The other slaves on Zygerria are the ones that have already been "processed" - they mostly worked as servants. Also, in many cases, in order to get droids advanced enough to perform complex tasks, it would be to expensive. Only a few droids in Star Wars (HK-47, T3-M4, C-3PO, R2-D2, C-21 Highsinger, IG-88, etc.) are capable of doing complex tasks as well as "meatbags". Aside from C-3PO, all of the droids on that list are expensive (R2 was a Naboo royal astromech unit serving on the queen's starship) or unique (Highsinger).

[Volomon]

Please read the above posts, I already said why droids are more efficient slaves than aliens or humans.

 

Secondly I live in mexico and haven't seen any slavery here and its forbbiden by law, also in India is not allowed to have slaves.

 

Im sorry you just need to read up more history, the only reason slavery existed is because it was the most effiecient way back in Roman times or Greece, they didn't have droids or else they would have opted for droids.

 

You see if a droid is better at choirs it means there is more demand for droids

 

Sorry you need to learn about what's happening in reality.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2012/aug/05/child-slavery-in-india-pictures

 

http://www.womensfundingnetwork.org/resource/past-articles/enslaved-in-america-sex-trafficking-in-the-united-states

 

Humans will always be cheaper than animals or machines, period. Sorry to ruin your day with reality, really am, wish I didn't know anything, it is better to be ignorant as they say.

 

I could go on and on about other slave markets in the world, I mean think of it if there's one in America, there's one everywhere. Worse countries would be some African and some of SE Asian countries. Woman are technically slaves in most Middle Eastern countries as well.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Volomon

[SerikFox]

Please read the above posts, I already said why droids are more efficient slaves than aliens or humans.

 

Secondly I live in mexico and haven't seen any slavery here and its forbbiden by law, also in India is not allowed to have slaves.

 

Im sorry you just need to read up more history, the only reason slavery existed is because it was the most effiecient way back in Roman times or Greece, they didn't have droids or else they would have opted for droids.

 

You see if a droid is better at choirs it means there is more demand for droids

 

He means illegal slavery of the perverted kind, of which there is trade in throughout the world.

[Volomon]

He means illegal slavery of the perverted kind, of which there is trade in throughout the world.

 

It isn't just the perverted kind either, some countries allow you to "adopt" or "take in" a homeless child for labor. Other countries enslave children as soldiers.

 

Slavery never ended. People just sit in their homes thinking the Civil War some how stopped slavery all over the world. It didn't and it wouldn't stop it in the future either.

 

Also most of the cost associate with these slaves is $0. It only costs you to feed these people. You could potentially get hundreds compared to ONE droid. Depending on how organized you are or your group is. Why buy droids when you can enslave the native population?

Edited May 3, 2013 by Volomon

[ZahirS]

Ok I know that kind of slavery, but this is not what we are talking about here.

 

We are talking about open slavery of both males and females and kids to do choirs, servitude just like in Roman times.

there were laws to abolish slavery in our real world, sure it exists as underworld market but it can be dismatled.

 

In Roman times is was looked good to have many slaves, you see what I mean. that changed overtime.

 

So in Star Wars having slaves is too primitive to be in star wars, because of existance of droids, etc.

[FuryoftheStars]

ZahirS, if you will recall correctly from the movies (at least), there are several instances where we can see droids preforming tasks. They are, essentially, slave labor in that context.

 

Any instances of mass slavery (or the attempt thereof, like with the Wookies) is nothing more than an attempt at exerting dominance over them. In those cases, cost is not a factor.