Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[MajikMyst]

That's like saying, "Okay each new flashpoint we add into the game will cost 600 CC. But its fine because that's what you guys get each months. Or each new tier of gear is going to cost an unlock of 600 CC to use but that's okay for the same reasons." Sure this is just cosmetic and the actual value to the gameplay is minimal, but the idea that its so easy to change the subscriber system just scares me a bit.

 

No it isn't.. A flashpoint is actual content.. A species is not.. Sorry.. But that post is full of it..

 

You need to come to terms with something.. The Cathar species skin is cosmetic.. That is it.. Just cosmetic.. It is in no way a comparison to a flash point.. Wow.. I can't believe you said that..

 

Tier gear is not cosmetic... The gear that is sold on the CM is cosmetic.. Again.. What were you thinking when you typed that??

 

Character skins are cosmetic.. Other than looks, they serve no purpose in the game.. They are not content.. That would be like saying our mounts is content.. Or the little pets that follow us around.. Is that content too??

 

Content is anything we do as an activity.. Dailies, Ops, FP, leveling, and so forth and so forth..

 

The Cathar species belongs in the CM because it is cosmetic.. It just makes your character look like a Cathar.. That is all it does..

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Trollokdamus]

"Full access to all Character Creation options."

Actually, from what i see, this particular phrase is worded in such a way that it may justify Bioware's actions if they decide to go for it. The key words are "character creation". Bioware may just give the barbershop customization options a different name, like "character editing options" or "advanced character recustomization" or whatever. This way the original "character creation" options will stay untouched, fully acceccible for subscribers as they were before, while the new "character editing/recustomization" options will require you to spend some real cash. A dirty move, i know, but this is still an actual possibility for them to justify their actions.

[MisterMuse]

Look here at what you didn't post from the link..

 

Free access to any and all new species added to the game now and in the future..

 

Get it now?? Come on dude.. You are stretching it really thin there.. I mean thin!!

 

So when they release new, non-expansion content you think its acceptable to charge extra for this every time as well just because they haven't written Free access to any and all non-expansion content updates as well? Next raid 600CC, next flashpoint 600CC, just because we get that stipend each month?

[Soluss]

I dont have a problem with putting the race on the cartel market. I think it should have been packaged with the expansion though. I dont have a problem charging for race changes either. The "barber shop" features though, like changing your hair or facial features, should have a credit way to buy.

[MajikMyst]

So when they release new, non-expansion content you think its acceptable to charge extra for this every time as well just because they haven't written Free access to any and all non-expansion content updates as well? Next raid 600CC, next flashpoint 600CC, just because we get that stipend each month?

 

Cathars are not content..

 

Have a nice day..

[MisterMuse]

No it isn't.. A flashpoint is actual content.. A species is not.. Sorry.. But that post is full of it..

 

They promised content, they promised customization. They're taking one thing and I'm afraid that they could go on and begin taking the other. You don't care for the Cathar thing because you don't place a high value on it, you don't think that it could spill over and that's lovely for you. I myself am not so sure, I've seen other games follow the same pattern and generally EA has an atrocious track record. We're arguing about two different things here, I value the principle in general not the Cathar in specific.

[Varium]

Cathar should be free for subs without using cartel coins.

[Lovethebeard]

Sorry.. But that is irrelevant.. Why does that matter?? Again, subscribers get a monthly grant.. So the Cartel Market is covered..

 

Look.. If you all just want to sit back and QQ about this fine.. But honestly.. There is nothing to QQ about.. That is the entire reason that subscribers have a monthly grant is so that we could buy some stuff for free.. We are not entitled to everything for free.. Credits or otherwise..

 

I mean crap.. We got 50% off on the expansion.. Just $10 is what we paid.. Now you all are going to complain about 600cc for a Cathar species?? Really??

 

Bioware did not false advertise anything.. I have not read a single valid reason as to how we are being jipped or unfairly treated.. All I have seen is a bunch of people that have memory lapses about our monthly grant.. That is free money every month.. They even back paid us all the way back to when you first subscribed.. For me that was the start of the game.. That was all free money.. Where is the accounting for that??

 

I will gladly pay my 600cc for the Cathar.. Well.. My wife will.. I am not sure yet..

 

You win the forums for today.

[MisterMuse]

Cathars are not content..

 

Have a nice day..

 

You don't think Cathar is content. Other might disagree.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=631662

Have a nice day .

Edited April 27, 2013 by MisterMuse

[PariahMessiah]

Seriously if you think subs are getting any new content without shelling out extra cash to EA I have a some oceanfront property in Nebraska to sell you. You're basically paying for a month's worth of ops FP and WZ passes with your subscription.

[Varium]

Cathar should be free for subs without using cartel coins.

 

They promised content, they promised customization. They're taking one thing and I'm afraid that they could go on and begin taking the other. You don't care for the Cathar thing because you don't place a high value on it, you don't think that it could spill over and that's lovely for you. I myself am not so sure, I've seen other games follow the same pattern and generally EA has an atrocious track record. We're arguing about two different things here, I value the principle in general not the Cathar in specific.

 

This.

Soon they will have Section X or Black hole copies that even subs have to pay for.

[MisterMuse]

Seriously if you think subs are getting any new content without shelling out extra cash to EA I have a some oceanfront property in Nebraska to sell you. You're basically paying for a month's worth of ops FP and WZ passes with your subscription.

 

Yeah that's the way a subscription model works. Its the addition of extra "costs" that has my nickers in a twist.

[Icebergy]

They promised content, they promised customization. They're taking one thing and I'm afraid that they could go on and begin taking the other. You don't care for the Cathar thing because you don't place a high value on it, you don't think that it could spill over and that's lovely for you. I myself am not so sure, I've seen other games follow the same pattern and generally EA has an atrocious track record. We're arguing about two different things here, I value the principle in general not the Cathar in specific.

 

I would like to see where they promised all this customization would be free. Do you have a link to it?

[Jeweledleah]

Sorry.. But that is irrelevant.. Why does that matter?? Again, subscribers get a monthly grant.. So the Cartel Market is covered..

 

Look.. If you all just want to sit back and QQ about this fine.. But honestly.. There is nothing to QQ about.. That is the entire reason that subscribers have a monthly grant is so that we could buy some stuff for free.. We are not entitled to everything for free.. Credits or otherwise..

 

I mean crap.. We got 50% off on the expansion.. Just $10 is what we paid.. Now you all are going to complain about 600cc for a Cathar species?? Really??

 

Bioware did not false advertise anything.. I have not read a single valid reason as to how we are being jipped or unfairly treated.. All I have seen is a bunch of people that have memory lapses about our monthly grant.. That is free money every month.. They even back paid us all the way back to when you first subscribed.. For me that was the start of the game.. That was all free money.. Where is the accounting for that??

 

I will gladly pay my 600cc for the Cathar.. Well.. My wife will.. I am not sure yet..

 

its extremely relevant.

 

had the species had the same cost as all the other unlocks - they would still be only available to subscribers for credits, considering that f2p accounts have very strict credit caps and it would have given people an option. keeping subscriber's good will if you would. right now they are basically telling me - oh you know that complementary grant we're giving you with subscription? did you really think it was truly complementary? nope, its not, can't use it as alternative for legacy unlocks for example, or whatever extra fluff you might want, not if you want to get new content without shelling out extra money.

 

so what am I paying my subscription for exactly?

 

and before you say anything - I can buy twice as many coins while paying only $10, without having to pay subscription. it literally seems to be $15 a month for minor conveniences at this point for someone who's been playing for a while.

 

I don't know if its precisely false advertising. semantics are interesting things. but it IS damn shady (and btw, I was one of the people defending Makeb costing real money) and borderline lies.

[MisterMuse]

I would like to see where they promised all this customization would be free. Do you have a link to it?

 

First post, under Character Creation and you can check out the 1st F2P review video where they say the same. "All this customization" is really just the race. The Barber shop I don't have a problem with that much, don't like it but its not something which has been promised us.

Edited April 27, 2013 by MisterMuse

[MajikMyst]

They promised content, they promised customization. They're taking one thing and I'm afraid that they could go on and begin taking the other. You don't care for the Cathar thing because you don't place a high value on it, you don't think that it could spill over and that's lovely for you. I myself am not so sure, I've seen other games follow the same pattern and generally EA has an atrocious track record. We're arguing about two different things here, I value the principle in general not the Cathar in specific.

 

But see dude.. Your big issue really is definitions.. You need to understand what is or isn't considered content.. I guarantee you, there will be hell to pay of they ever stick a Flashpoint or an OP in the Cartel Market and demand that subscribers pay for it... There will hell to pay of they even just make us by some trinket that we need to just get in..

 

Real content will never be in the Cartel Market.. It just won't.. They would totally lose all of their subscribers.. Including me..

 

The Cathar species thing is not content.. It is cosmetic.. Anything consmetic can or should be in the Cartel Market.. That is what it is for.. Other than the unlocks that the F2P people have to buy, everything on the CM is cosmetic.. Everything in those packs are cosmetic or nifty toys.. Be it mounts, pets, or cool uniforms for our characters... None of it is content.. You really need to separate the two..

 

It has nothing to do with who values what more.. You don't seem to understand the difference between cosmetic and content.. Planet Makeb is content.. We paid for that because it is an expansion.. It is a new planet that was not there when the game originally released.. When Terror From Beyond was added.. We did not pay for that.. We all had access.. That was content.. Then the Gree event was added.. We didn't have to pay for that.. When EC was added, we didn't have to pay for that.. That is content..

 

Are you starting to get it now?? You have nothing to be worried about.. Nobody is getting jipped.. Bioware is not going back on their word.. We as subscribers were never given 100% access to all of the species available.. We either had to pay for them with credits or with time by leveling one up to 50.. In either case, we never had full access to all the different species..

 

There is nothing wrong with the Cather being added to the Cartel Market only because of our monthly grant that we get as subscribers.. You need to understand here.. If you spend your 600cc on other stuff.. You still got 600cc worth of stuff for free.. So it is totally fair if have to buy more CC to get the Cather species?? Why?? Because it is all a wash.. Had you spent your 600cc on the Cathar species, you wouldn't have got all the other stuff you bought, and would have had to purchase coins to get it.. So it doesn't matter.. It is all about how you manage your CC.. Bioware has no control over that other than to give you your monthly grant..

 

So there is really nothing to complain about.. You are not being treated unfairly.. They can sell the Cather species from the Cartel Market and every subscriber in the game can use their grant and get it for free..

[MisterMuse]

But see dude.. Your big issue really is definitions.. You need to understand what is or isn't considered content.. I guarantee you, there will be hell to pay of they ever stick a Flashpoint or an OP in the Cartel Market and demand that subscribers pay for it... There will hell to pay of they even just make us by some trinket that we need to just get in..

 

Real content will never be in the Cartel Market.. It just won't.. They would totally lose all of their subscribers.. Including me..

 

The Cathar species thing is not content.. It is cosmetic.. Anything consmetic can or should be in the Cartel Market.. That is what it is for.. Other than the unlocks that the F2P people have to buy, everything on the CM is cosmetic.. Everything in those packs are cosmetic or nifty toys.. Be it mounts, pets, or cool uniforms for our characters... None of it is content.. You really need to separate the two..

 

It has nothing to do with who values what more.. You don't seem to understand the difference between cosmetic and content.. Planet Makeb is content.. We paid for that because it is an expansion.. It is a new planet that was not there when the game originally released.. When Terror From Beyond was added.. We did not pay for that.. We all had access.. That was content.. Then the Gree event was added.. We didn't have to pay for that.. When EC was added, we didn't have to pay for that.. That is content..

 

Are you starting to get it now?? You have nothing to be worried about.. Nobody is getting jipped.. Bioware is not going back on their word.. We as subscribers were never given 100% access to all of the species available.. We either had to pay for them with credits or with time by leveling one up to 50.. In either case, we never had full access to all the different species..

 

There is nothing wrong with the Cather being added to the Cartel Market only because of our monthly grant that we get as subscribers.. You need to understand here.. If you spend your 600cc on other stuff.. You still got 600cc worth of stuff for free.. So it is totally fair if have to buy more CC to get the Cather species?? Why?? Because it is all a wash.. Had you spent your 600cc on the Cathar species, you wouldn't have got all the other stuff you bought, and would have had to purchase coins to get it.. So it doesn't matter.. It is all about how you manage your CC.. Bioware has no control over that other than to give you your monthly grant..

 

So there is really nothing to complain about.. You are not being treated unfairly.. They can sell the Cather species from the Cartel Market and every subscriber in the game can use their grant and get it for free..

 

Its lovely that you've got such faith, really. But I don't share it. Your problem is that you're to stuck arguing about the case in specific while not really comprehending that the difference between you and me is how afraid we are that this could become a slide, you don't have any fear and I do, that's just a difference of opinion, not understanding. Also you're very opinionated what is content and not, which sure it might not have value to yourself but that does not mean everyone is the same.

Edited April 27, 2013 by MisterMuse

[MajikMyst]

its extremely relevant..

 

Sorry.. But until you want to sit down and account for your monthly grant, which you continually ignore..

 

Other than 'That's irrelevant.' There really isn't much I can say..

 

You just seem to want to rant about stuff that doesn't make much sense.. Did you even read my post??

Edited April 27, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Its lovely that you've got such faith, really. But I don't share it. Your problem is that you're to stuck arguing about the case in specific while not really comprehending that the difference between you and me is how afraid we are that this could become a slide, you don't have any fear and I do, that's just a difference of opinion, not understanding. Also you're very opinionated what is content and not, which sure it might not have value to yourself but that does not mean everyone is the same.

 

You should have faith in your fellow gamers..

 

Specifics is the only way to argue this because it is the issue you are making.. You still have failed to show how anything has been done wrong.. You say you are worry about something.. But have failed to show what or why..

 

The fact that you have fear is your own choice.. I am actually not opinionated.. Just stating facts.. You just seem to want to see it your own way.. Not the way it is.. You want to be scared and not informed.. That is all your choice..

 

Like I said, it isn't an issue of having faith.. I know that if they ever made a subscriber pay for content.. Bioware would never hear the end of it.. I think they know it too...

[Jeweledleah]

speaking of semantics. we were promised regular content updates. every 6-8 weeks. seems like Cathar and customization options fit RIGHt into that window. we're not getting anything else there.

 

ergo. this is considered content. like others have said - not all content needs to be action oriented.

 

but.. correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't had a content patch that wasn't a cartel market patch since return of the gree.

I would really honestly like to feel like my subscription pays for a bit more than just minor conveniences, you know. but that's just me

[Kubernetic]

So from what we've heard of the new 2.1 update it seems as both the new race, Cathar and the new customization options are being put into the cartel market. As such I'd like to draw attention to a page that Bioware themselves used as commercial for subscribing.

 

http://www.swtor.com/free/features

 

We've been constantly promised that subscribers would have full access to character customization. You guys at Bioware going to update that soon and stop making false advertisement? While I'm sure that the F2P and Cartel Market pushed this game forward there seemed to be a trend to make some actual content in this game a P2W hybrid where either you have to have enough in-game money to buy packs off the GTN or enough real-money to buy packs of the CM.

 

You need to read more closely. What subscribers are promised is full access to "Character Creation" options, and as of the time of that page, Cathar were not a species available.

 

I don't think F2P players get as many options as Subscribers get when you CREATE a character.

 

Notice that CREATING and SUBSEQUENTLY ALTERING a character's customization options are two separate things.

 

Be careful when you try to accuse someone of false advertising. You might actually be inadvertently committing libel or slander against them.

[MisterMuse]

Sorry.. But until you want to sit down and account for your monthly grant, which you continually ignore..

 

Other than 'That's irrelevant.' There really isn't much I can say..

 

You just seem to want to rant about stuff that doesn't make much sense.. Did you even read my post??

 

I've read every line in every post. But things generally don't make sense when you're arguing about different things and when our detention of content, promise and advertisement differ as much as they do. All you're saying is that its perfectly acceptable that the Cathar is on the Cartel Market, which I don't really care much for in specific.

 

All I'm trying to present is that the mentality behind the decision is what I'm afraid of, which you says you're not and that's great, difference of opinion makes the world better. I'm afraid of actual carry over into other parts of the game which using your logical argument (the stipend makes adding things to the CM exclusive fine because we then can use to unlock it) fine. You don't believe there is a chance for this to happen, I do, its a simple difference of thought.

[MajikMyst]

speaking of semantics. we were promised regular content updates. every 6-8 weeks. seems like Cathar and customization options fit RIGHt into that window. we're not getting anything else there.

 

ergo. this is considered content. like others have said - not all content needs to be action oriented.

 

but.. correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't had a content patch that wasn't a cartel market patch since return of the gree.

I would really honestly like to feel like my subscription pays for a bit more than just minor conveniences, you know. but that's just me

 

How quickly we forget about Makeb and the expansion..

 

When was the expansion release?? Are we a month and half to 2 months after the release yet?? No??

 

Well?? They have been meeting that goal of 6-8 weeks since pretty much Sept. of last year.. In fact in many ways, beating it..

[MajikMyst]

I've read every line in every post. But things generally don't make sense when you're arguing about different things and when our detention of content, promise and advertisement differ as much as they do. All you're saying is that its perfectly acceptable that the Cathar is on the Cartel Market, which I don't really care much for in specific.

 

All I'm trying to present is that the mentality behind the decision is what I'm afraid of, which you says you're not and that's great, difference of opinion makes the world better. I'm afraid of actual carry over into other parts of the game which using your logical argument (the stipend makes adding things to the CM exclusive fine because we then can use to unlock it) fine. You don't believe there is a chance for this to happen, I do, its a simple difference of thought.

 

That wasn't to you..

[MisterMuse]

You need to read more closely. What subscribers are promised is full access to "Character Creation" options, and as of the time of that page, Cathar were not a species available.

 

I don't think F2P players get as many options as Subscribers get when you CREATE a character.

 

Notice that CREATING and SUBSEQUENTLY ALTERING a character's customization options are two separate things.

 

Be careful when you try to accuse someone of false advertising. You might actually be inadvertently committing libel or slander against them.

 

I have no problem with the Barber Shop, just the fact that when I create my next character I'll have to use my CC to unlock a Creation option.