Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 But it's quite another thing if the developers repeatedly fail to provide a working framework for an entire mode of content. That warrants an apology and some compensation. It's like going to see a movie but the sound won't play. It's been broken since beta and every day since then... I'd say expecting this game to be well polished is like going to an M. Night Shamalan (Spell check) movie and expecting any kind of plot that makes sense. The entire buzz around this game since pre-release was everything is broken but it has potential to be pretty. This is the Linsay Lohan of MMO's and no one should be surprised that it's broken and has numerous flaws. It was public knowledge that BW has never made an MMO before this and that they did it on a brand new, and unfinished engine. So again... my point is... people bought it anyways. If they knew what they bought, it's their fault. If they didn't know, they should have done their homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted_Coconuts Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Quote: Originally Posted by Jaiyne No I wasn't saying that at all...but I wouldn't expect your comprehension level to have equaled your ability to get gear in this (very easy) game...lol Sorry Jaiyne, I couldn't help myself. lulz It's easy to farm gear so stop making excuses for people who don't want to farm gear. Hahahaha you said my point. It is fking easy to get gear bottom line. It doesn't take hours in one day to get one piece. You can get the gear by only playing an hour a night for one week and you will get partisan. I understand your point, that's not the issue. Since you missed mine, I was just pointing out that the comparison is not a good example. It's a logical fallacy, thus, taking away from your point. People also make money off of the lottery, under water basket weaving, and blinking competitions... and? (If that last sentence doesn't make any sense to you, then you have identified a logical fallacy, cograts) Edited April 25, 2013 by Toasted_Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 This is the Linsay Lohan of MMO's That line is EPIC! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I expect that when I dial a number on my phone, that Verizon will connect me with said number I have AT&T and I expect to drop my calls every 5 minutes. Still no apology letter from AT&T. If I order a burger without onions from McDonalds, I expect it'll have no onions - is that "entitled" to you? If I bought a burger without onions and they gave me onions... I would ask for a new burger without onions.... if McDonald's was known to be a crappy burger maker and there were plenty of information publicly available that lead me to believe that they would screw up said burger on a regular basis and rarely get that very burger order correct and may even spit in it once in a while... I may buy a burger from another food chain. Why the hell is expecting something to work the way it's being SOLD and MARKETED synonymous with "entitled" in your mind? McDonald's is Marketing and selling their burgers as "all beef patties".... do you believe that as well? And I call it "entitlement" because as a consumer I have a choice. I can choose to support a product or choose not to. But if I purchase a product in 2011 and I later become less satisfied with that product in 2013, I don't ask for an apology... I find a product elsewhere that more suits my needs. Edited April 25, 2013 by Baedwulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zathmaulthegreat Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Cilas you are a funny funny man... my first post but i couldnt resist after seeing your thread!! hahaaahah your current GM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have AT&T and I expect to drop my calls every 5 minutes. Still no apology letter from AT&T. If I bought a burger without onions and they gave me onions... I would ask for a new burger without onions.... if McDonald's was known to be a crappy burger maker and there were plenty of information publicly available that lead me to believe that they would screw up said burger on a regular basis and rarely get that very burger order correct and may even spit in it once in a while... I may buy a burger from another food chain. McDonald's is Marketing and selling their burgers as "all beef patties".... do you believe that as well? And I call it "entitlement" because as a consumer I have a choice. I can choose to support a product or choose not to. But if I purchase a product in 2011 and I later become less satisfied with that product in 2013, I don't ask for an apology... I find a product elsewhere that more suits my needs. Read somewhere that McDonalds is the worlds largest buyer of cow balls. Still technically; beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Read somewhere that McDonalds is the worlds largest buyer of cow balls. Still technically; beef. This actually works perfect for this scenario... Gross to some, a delicacy to others. Still... not going to ask McDonald's for an apology letter if I don't like bulls balls in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 And I call it "entitlement" because as a consumer I have a choice. I can choose to support a product or choose not to. But if I purchase a product in 2011 and I later become less satisfied with that product in 2013, I don't ask for an apology... I find a product elsewhere that more suits my needs. I don't want an "apology", I want this mess FIXED! If my cable goes out, I want it fixed! Sure, I have the choice of switching from 50MB service to 3MB DSL, but I don't WANT DSL, I want the crap I PAY FOR to work. I want the crap in THIS game to WORK as advertised. I don't give a flip if they scrap Bolster AND expertise, I just want PvP gear to be balanced with PvE gear. I dislike that they can't seem to manage a VERY basic math equation...doesn't mean I want to quit the game, but it's most certainly frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifolad Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Emu ( the bird ) is not beef. Also, Emu is a bird, not the skinny kid you see wearing all black listening to Lacuna Coil. I like that band by the way so no offense to Lacuna Coil or their fans as any offense was not malicious. I do however like to make fun of emo kids. YAY candykids rolling on the pavement again, puns intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Some ppl in this thread really should pull their heads out BW arses Failures constantly !! we play because we enjoy it what we don't like is the constant issues its sad ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I don't want an "apology", I want this mess FIXED! If my cable goes out, I want it fixed! Sure, I have the choice of switching from 50MB service to 3MB DSL, but I don't WANT DSL, I want the crap I PAY FOR to work. I want the crap in THIS game to WORK as advertised. I don't give a flip if they scrap Bolster AND expertise, I just want PvP gear to be balanced with PvE gear. I dislike that they can't seem to manage a VERY basic math equation...doesn't mean I want to quit the game, but it's most certainly frustrating. I want the same things... my point is only that I don't believe as a consumer that we are entitled to it. They can whatever the hell they want with their game and we can do whatever the hell we want with our money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I want the same things... my point is only that I don't believe as a consumer that we are entitled to it. They can whatever the hell they want with their game and we can do whatever the hell we want with our money. OK....so we can quit if we don't like it?! That's always the case though, except with healthcare. How does asking/demanding/insisting/ranting for change, change that?! We always have the freedom to leave if we like, and tbh, over 2million people did just that with this game soon after launch. As a company, I would think EA's goal would be to KEEP subscribers, hence, I feel our feedback, while sometimes over the top, is largely appreciated. I don' think any of us expect Congress to step in and insist through legislation that EA fix PvP, that would be feeling "entitled" - but expressing displeasure isn't expressing "entitlement", it's expressing our views on their product, and any company that values its customers, which I assume EA does to an extent, would be wise to take note of their customers feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Would it really make you any happier about the state of the game if you saw this. Of course they've made a ton of mistakes and handled multiple things poorly and over all considering the potential of this game they have been a huge dissapointment. Would an email to it's subscribers and a POS free Origin game make any of us more satisfied? My point is... either play because it's the most enjoyable MMO on the market, or don't because there's something better out there. I was really dissapointed with ET for Atari... not once did they write me a letter or even give me a free copy of Moon Patrol because of it. Life... and e-life... the saga continued. If it literally said "My bad." Not only would I feel better, but I would also laugh. It isn't about feeling better though. If they submitted something, our perceptions of them would change. At least mine would. They would be thought of as a somewhat more organized and professional organization that not only cares about their product, but cares about its affect on the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 As a company, I would think EA's goal would be to KEEP subscribers, hence, I feel our feedback, while sometimes over the top, is largely ignored. Fixed that for you... For the most part... I completely agree. You WOULD think so and it would be nice. Again, I disagree with the OP and feel that todays gaming community on the whole complains far too much and makes unrealistic demands and expects each game to cater to them. A product of the internet and online gaming. No such complaints existed in the days of Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis. I hate what's happened to the Mortal Kombat games... I would also never buy it, play it and then tell them I want an apology and demand they change it to suit my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Sorry Jaiyne, I couldn't help myself. lulz I understand your point, that's not the issue. Since you missed mine, I was just pointing out that the comparison is not a good example. It's a logical fallacy, thus, taking away from your point. People also make money off of the lottery, under water basket weaving, and blinking competitions... and? (If that last sentence doesn't make any sense to you, then you have identified a logical fallacy, cograts) You think my reasoning is bad, but that is your opinion. My reasoning is that whatever you try do in life whether it's work or fun you do it to the best of your abilities. So I don't see nothing wrong with my examples, but we will never agree so whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 And yes... you and much of the community has a gross sense of entitlment. There was a time where people offered a product and people bought it... or they didn't. The fact that people expect apologies or even demand change is ridiculous. Buy it, or don't. They are NOT obligated to produce a quality product as you are not obligated to buy it. So, with that logic... should bioware refund my product (i.e. subscription) because I'm not paying for what they said I would get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 If you call expecting services we pay for to work properly, "entitlement", then yes, I feel "entitled". I expect that when I dial a number on my phone, that Verizon will connect me with said number, not a random one of their choosing. Does that make me "entitled" as well? When I send a text to my kids, I expect they'll receive it, not some stranger - am I expressing a sense of "entitlement" there too? If I order a burger without onions from McDonalds, I expect it'll have no onions - is that "entitled" to you? Why the hell is expecting something to work the way it's being SOLD and MARKETED synonymous with "entitled" in your mind? That's blatantly dumb! This. ^ I would consider a gross sense of entitlement an expectation that everything will work all of the time with no bugs, errors, or defects. Of course, that's not only a gross sense of entitlement, that's also being unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have AT&T and I expect to drop my calls every 5 minutes. Still no apology letter from AT&T. If I bought a burger without onions and they gave me onions... I would ask for a new burger without onions.... if McDonald's was known to be a crappy burger maker and there were plenty of information publicly available that lead me to believe that they would screw up said burger on a regular basis and rarely get that very burger order correct and may even spit in it once in a while... I may buy a burger from another food chain. McDonald's is Marketing and selling their burgers as "all beef patties".... do you believe that as well? And I call it "entitlement" because as a consumer I have a choice. I can choose to support a product or choose not to. But if I purchase a product in 2011 and I later become less satisfied with that product in 2013, I don't ask for an apology... I find a product elsewhere that more suits my needs. What you're describing just leads me to believe you have a high tolerance for dealing with incompetence. My tolerance is not as high. That has nothing to do with entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 If it literally said "My bad." Not only would I feel better, but I would also laugh. It isn't about feeling better though. If they submitted something, our perceptions of them would change. At least mine would. They would be thought of as a somewhat more organized and professional organization that not only cares about their product, but cares about its affect on the player base. If there's anything I've learned about MMO's... it's that they will always have flaws and even if you keep the right happy, the left will rage. And BW has made mistake after mistake with a number of games they've released over the last few years. Unless it's something as blatant as servers crashing upon launch (Sim City), I completely understand why they wouldn't apologize. It's a functional product even with it's flaws and apologizing even once is admitting failure. From a business perspective I wouldn't either. Though the product has many flaws, it's a working product. And offering it's customers free stuiff or an "I'm sorry" would just admit fault, when instead they can keep on truckin' and say "Working as intended" Sucks you don't like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 And I call it "entitlement" because as a consumer I have a choice. I can choose to support a product or choose not to. But if I purchase a product in 2011 and I later become less satisfied with that product in 2013, I don't ask for an apology... I find a product elsewhere that more suits my needs. You're missing my point entirely and from reading your posts, doesn't look like you will ever get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baedwulf Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) So, with that logic... should bioware refund my product (i.e. subscription) because I'm not paying for what they said I would get? Depends.... Did they EVER promise you: 1. A bug free and expliot free game 2. A perfectly working bolster system 3. Seamless and balanced PvP If they promised you any of the above yes, but to my knowledge they have made no such promises and neither has any MMO developer. Edited April 25, 2013 by Baedwulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Cilas and Ugly you are both cool peeps. I see both of your points. I don't think Cilas wants handouts and yes Ugly there are a lot of people who want handouts. I look at like this I do believe we need to hear something from the DEVS about it. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of apology, but I don't think we need anything given to us. But I also believe the reason we have all these issues is because of people that have a sense of entitlement. The gear gap is too big, premades and pugs shouldn't play each other, ttk is too short, bolster sucks, smash is op, bubble stun is op, gear grind is too long, classes are not balanced, etc ......... So BW tried to fix these issues for the people who cried all the time. I am not defending BW, but it is because of these QQ'ers that the game is in this state. BW only did what the community QQ'ED about. But honestly speaking the gear grind is not bad at all. Most people can get the first set within a week if they just finished dailys and weekly for one or two weeks. Partisan gear is more than competitive enough for regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Cilas and Ugly you are both cool peeps. I see both of your points. I don't think Cilas wants handouts and yes Ugly there are a lot of people who want handouts. I look at like this I do believe we need to hear something from the DEVS about it. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of apology, but I don't think we need anything given to us. But I also believe the reason we have all these issues is because of people that have a sense of entitlement. The gear gap is too big, premades and pugs shouldn't play each other, ttk is too short, bolster sucks, smash is op, bubble stun is op, gear grind is too long, classes are not balanced, etc ......... So BW tried to fix these issues for the people who cried all the time. I am not defending BW, but it is because of these QQ'ers that the game is in this state. BW only did what the community QQ'ED about. But honestly speaking the gear grind is not bad at all. Most people can get the first set within a week if they just finished dailys and weekly for one or two weeks. Partisan gear is more than competitive enough for regs. I guess that's my bigger frustration. Apology or no, they haven't even addressed it correctly with their customers. Do I expect them to call me or send a letter? Do I want them to approach the player base exactly how I want? No. But I think anyone would agree their lack of any type of response is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 2. A perfectly working bolster system Actually, I asked this very question of a Dev and he answered it (it's here in the forums from pre 2.0) - when they went into detail about how Bolster would impact every slot now, I brought up my concern of people swapping mods (any mod) prior to a WZ and they stated that they had that already covered and that it would not be an issue (paraphrasing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittaany_Banks Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Keep this thread alive if you agree. This statement reminded me of those Facebook memes that claim if I do not like and share that I hate all children with cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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