RotHC // 2.0 : Healing - It's ridiculous.

[NoTomorrow]

You are ignoring one important thing here: Normal warzones.

 

I don't know what kind of normal warzones you are playing but mine consist of atleast four clueless pugs. So how do you implement tactics and "focus" when everyone is scattered and no one ever listens? Yes, your own healers will most likely be able to free cast too but I've never argued that I win less because of healers. I'm arguing that it's *********** boring to play this way. And no, I can't single handedly burn down a healer while he has another healer healing him.

 

in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs, more healers team will always win simply because coordinating cross heals (thanks to ops frame) is always easier than coordinating DPS focus fire (in unorganized pugs)

[L-RANDLE]

in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs, more healers team will always win simply because coordinating cross heals (thanks to ops frame) is always easier than coordinating DPS focus fire (in unorganized pugs)

 

So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?

 

 

 

[MidichIorian]

in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs,.....

So basically +95% of all games played.

[Soxbadger]

You are ignoring one important thing here: Normal warzones.

 

I don't know what kind of normal warzones you are playing but mine consist of atleast four clueless pugs. So how do you implement tactics and "focus" when everyone is scattered and no one ever listens? Yes, your own healers will most likely be able to free cast too but I've never argued that I win less because of healers. I'm arguing that it's *********** boring to play this way. And no, I can't single handedly burn down a healer while he has another healer healing him.

 

Right no one who plays a lot of pvp wants drastic changes over lowbie pvp. The high end pvp is 55+, that is where you run into 4-8 man premade groups who have mumble/vent and mark targets.

 

If you make it easier to kill healers, they will be trampled.

 

In sub 55 wz, you basically are just hoping to have a few competent players, but really it doesnt matter because you are getting EXP/Comms for when you get to the real pvp, level 55.

 

And also in sub 54 pvp most of the healers arent top end healers, so even just 1 dpser chasing them around will likely frustrate them and make them pretty useless.

 

Heck in lvl 55 when I pug I sometimes get groups who dont understand basic concepts like: "focus on their healer", "protect our healer", "DO NOT JUMP OFF THE NODE WHERE I AM HEALING BECAUSE YOU GO OUT OF RANGE."

 

But that is on my group for losing. If they play stupid we deserve to lose. Healing isnt overpowered because everyone has an equal opportunity to receive heals and everyone can be a healer if they want.

 

Healing isnt exactly the most fun part of pvp, you have a significant amount of responsibility and half the time people dont even think twice about you. Yet your entire job is to think about everyone else.

[NoTomorrow]

So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?

 

 

 

 

the marked guy can have a guard and full health, and the idiots will still DPS him instead of the guy 5m to the left of him with health within execute range.

 

Try noticing, in a 3 healer team, how fast you get healed by every healer in the vecinity once your HP goes down. Healers are having a very easy time saving each other from the bring of death with cross-healing. I am ok with healer performance in their 1vs1 against DPS, but cross healing is a real pain, and in unorganized pugs, cross healing always beats focus fire.

Edited April 22, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Soxbadger]

So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?

 

 

 

 

What he is saying is that healers by and large are already trained with a "team first" mentality. Thus when a fellow healer is going down, I will heal them because I am aware of what is going on with my team. I dont need mumble/vent to understand what my team needs because as a healer my entire job is always to help the team.

 

Conversely many dps are "me first" and therefore they will spend minutes death matching the same person to prove "Im the most elite dps" instead of noticing that someone is healing and immediately moving to that target.

 

Its just lazy, especially when it is so very easy to mark a healer. "Oh that guy has a lightning bolt over his head, maybe I should kill him"

[L-RANDLE]

Heck in lvl 55 when I pug I sometimes get groups who dont understand basic concepts like: "focus on their healer", "protect our healer", "DO NOT JUMP OFF THE NODE WHERE I AM HEALING BECAUSE YOU GO OUT OF RANGE."

 

*snip

 

Healing isnt exactly the most fun part of pvp, you have a significant amount of responsibility and half the time people dont even think twice about you. Yet your entire job is to think about everyone else.

 

QFT,

 

Healers should be marked if your team intends to win the WZ, regardless of level. I'm a hybrid tank and I stay on the enemy healers like white on rice. PuG DPS? Not so much...

[L-RANDLE]

What he is saying is that healers by and large are already trained with a "team first" mentality. Thus when a fellow healer is going down, I will heal them because I am aware of what is going on with my team. I dont need mumble/vent to understand what my team needs because as a healer my entire job is always to help the team.

 

Conversely many dps are "me first" and therefore they will spend minutes death matching the same person to prove "Im the most elite dps" instead of noticing that someone is healing and immediately moving to that target.

 

Its just lazy, especially when it is so very easy to mark a healer. "Oh that guy has a lightning bolt over his head, maybe I should kill him"

 

I know I am just saying, when a healer is marked, most PuG DPS run the other way... I mean how hard is it to follow the mark?

Edited April 22, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[NoTomorrow]

I know I am just saying, when a healer is marked, most PuG DPS run the other way... I mean how hard is it to follow the mark?

 

3 healers, all 3 marked, how do you teach disorganized DPS who to shoot and slash? Notice how in RWZ the leader gives order who to DPS and everybody drops what they are doing and ficuses fire. We dont have that kind of dynamic focus fire in random pugs.

 

As much as i am trying to aid whatever team mate with focus fire,i will always miss the bigger picture. While a healer only has to look at his ops frame and he already knows if there is somebody within his LOS that needs heal.

 

And wait, we have special DPS spec requirments to bring down healers. You need mobile melee dps to acrually hunt the down.

Edited April 22, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Soxbadger]

3 healers, all 3 marked, how do you teach disorganized DPS who to shoot and slash? Notice how in RWZ the leader gives order who to DPS and everybody drops what they are doing and ficuses fire. We dont have that kind of dynamic focus fire in random pugs.

 

The same way you do it in pve when you have pugs on a ops or hardmode.

 

Kill in this order, saber, target, lightning.

 

Once again you are arguing for large changes based on lowbie pvp. The only way would be some sort of negative heal bonus in sub 54 zones, but who really is helped by that?

 

Everyone can receive healing equally. If you arent getting enough healers in your wzs, roll a healer.

 

You dont think a lot of us healers would rather run around leaping, pew pewing and not caring?

[xAZUREx]

Do you mean the size of the bars or the text on them?

 

the text on them

[L-RANDLE]

3 healers, all 3 marked, how do you teach disorganized DPS who to shoot and slash? Notice how in RWZ the leader gives order who to DPS and everybody drops what they are doing and ficuses fire. We dont have that kind of dynamic focus fire in random pugs.

 

Chat?

 

I am just being devil's advocate. PuG DPS is so herp-derp, that I doubt they even see marks on healers, let alone have to awareness to pull off and assist on marks...

 

How many times have you seen "we need to focus healers" in chat even though they are marked in the begining?

[Soxbadger]

 

As much asi am trying to aid whatever team mate with focus fire,iwill always miss the bigger picture. While a healer only has to look at his ops frame and he already knows if there is domebody within his LOS that needs heal.

 

Yes all the healer has to do is heal everyone in the pvp, while at the same time fending off 6-8 other people with the sole purpose of killing that healer.

 

Also, what wz can 3 healers effectively be on 1 node where you wont lose?

 

If you ever see that and you keep attacking that node, its your fault because it means there are at least 1 (voidstar) or 2 other nodes that are not defended by healers, unless they have 4-5, in which case, how are they killing you as they have no dps?

[sanchito]

So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?

 

 

 

 

I think it's true, most healers focus too much on the ops frames and not enough on the game, they'll always know when the other healer is in trouble

[NoTomorrow]

The same way you do it in pve when you have pugs on a ops or hardmode.

 

Kill in this order, saber, target, lightning.

 

Once again you are arguing for large changes based on lowbie pvp. The only way would be some sort of negative heal bonus in sub 54 zones, but who really is helped by that?

 

Everyone can receive healing equally. If you arent getting enough healers in your wzs, roll a healer.

 

You dont think a lot of us healers would rather run around leaping, pew pewing and not caring?

 

I am not asking for anything. I am only stating the current situation why pugs are a healer heaven. My only gripe is how we got special DPS requirements to kill healers: Burst specs, highly mobile, instacast abilities, high survivability to be able to last long enough, low interrupt CD, a healer debuff may be... How many specs we got that can fulfill this role??

 

You can forget about snipers, mercs and sorcs as classes albe to hunt down a healer good at LoSing. PT Pyrotech is ruined. Not much options left..The deception will probably hunt snipers, not healers. Concealment? Cannot judge now.

 

A marauderless team is usually bad news if you play against healers.

Edited April 22, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[L-RANDLE]

I think it's true, most healers focus too much on the ops frames and not enough on the game, they'll always know when the other healer is in trouble

 

And healers can't remove their mark... I mean DPS should be a moth to a flame, if they see a mark, but they don't in PuGs.

[DweezillKagemand]

the text on them

 

"Show health text" option after clicking on them in the Interface editor, its right at the bottom.

[Soxbadger]

I am not asking for anything. I am only stating the current situation why pugs are a healer heaven. My only gripe is how we got special DPS requirements to kill healers: Burst specs, highly mobile, instacast abilities, high survivability to be able to last long enough, low interrupt CD, a healer debuff may be... How many specs we got that can fulfill this role??

 

You can forget about snipers, mercs and sorcs as classes ale to hunt down a healer LoSing. PT Pyrotech is ruined. Not much options left..l

 

Well the first thing is that a good healer just should not go down to a dps 1 on 1, especially if that healer is specced right and has cooldowns up.

 

As a sorc I have 2 straight up cc/stun breaks and 1 (force speed) that breaks all slow etc. Since Im fully specced corruption, I can stack much more healing on myself than any single dps could ever imagine to put out.

 

Shield, resurgence, innervate, revivication, repeat. That is technically 3 stacked hots, not to mention my knockback is now a free self heal, plus my 6k+ self heal. If a single dps tries to take me on, they are simply doing it wrong.

 

Remember the healer class is built to sustain health for 4 people in pve. It should be able to sustain health for 1 on 1 in pvp.

[Arkerus]

BioWare, tone down healing.

 

Every warzone is filled up with healers because nowadays it's the amount of healers, that matters in winning or loosing a warzone.

 

2 healer per team are horrible, because you can't even deal enough damage to kill them ( especially if one of them is guarded ). 3 healer - don't think about killing ANYONE of the opponents team.

 

Who the hell has been in the position for the 2.0 PvP balance? It's just horrible.

 

The amount of mass-healing ( especially group heals & HoT's ) is so overwhelming, that it's horrible. You just need one healer to defend a position against 2 DD's - run around and heal like an idiot and he will survive "eternally" until there will be enough friends to help or enemies to kill him. That can't be the sense of PvP.

 

A good healer right now can outheal 2 DD's - I can. And I think it's ridiculous. As soon as there are 2 / 3 healers in a team, you can't kill anybody. What's the sense of 1 healer = 2 DD's? It's laughable.

 

And please, don't argument with focus the healers - yeah, sure, focus 1 / 2 healer, no problem. There are dozens of ways they can protect themselves. Annoying Sorcs / Sages throwing shields like their crazy, Barrier that makes them invulnerable until they got healed completely, Guard, the ticking HoT's.

 

It's horrible.

 

Scale down effective healing in PvP for roughly -30% - I don't know even if that would be enough.

 

Right now PvP is all about the amount of healers you got and that's just dumb.

 

Agreed on all points. When healers can solo defend a point against 2 DPS, there is a serious issue. And it's not a L2P issue on the DPS part. Interrupts only go so far. Healing is far outpacing DPS right now.

[NoTomorrow]

 

Remember the healer class is built to sustain health for 4 people in pve. It should be able to sustain health for 1 on 1 in pvp.

 

pve has designated tanks that take most of the damage.

Pve and pvp of course are different snimals. Trauma is there for a reason to tone down the healing.

[L-RANDLE]

Agreed on all points. When healers can solo defend a point against 2 DPS, there is a serious issue. And it's not a L2P issue on the DPS part. Interrupts only go so far. Healing is far outpacing DPS right now.

 

DPS shouldn't outpace healing. CC/interrupts exist for this very reason. The goal should be to make them move, interrupt and cc as much as possible, and "make" them worry more about their own health, versus the team.

 

 

You don't need to kill them to render them ineffective...

[Cilas]

If healing is so ridiculous, why bother bringing to into a rated team still? Dps is just as big and can burn folks down just as easily if done right. It's all about what target you focus... And that may not always be the healer.

 

I'd say that op healing could use a minor nerf to make them actually think about their energy management... And that's it

[Soxbadger]

If healing is so ridiculous, why bother bringing to into a rated team still? Dps is just as big and can burn folks down just as easily if done right. It's all about what target you focus... And that may not always be the healer.

 

I'd say that op healing could use a minor nerf to make them actually think about their energy management... And that's it

 

Its because all of these complaints are from people who are playing in sub 54 war zones and probably have never played 55, let alone a ranked.

 

Pugging sucks for many reasons and is not where people should be drawing game changing conclusions from.

[Soxbadger]

pve has designated tanks that take most of the damage.

Pve and pvp of course are different snimals. Trauma is there for a reason to tone down the healing.

 

And in pvp there are no tanks, who can guard healers, because that is not part of pvp???

 

PVP is significantly more complicated than PVE. You cant just say "oh healing is overpowered", you have to break down the stats.

 

After your warzone, just check to see what healers took the most damage (if you mouse over deaths, it will show you.) If your team put up more damage to their healers and you had at least 1 semi competent healer, you probably will win.

 

The issue arises when at the end of a warzone there are healers with less than 100k damage taken. No amount of "fixes" will change bad play.

[Hieroglyphics]

If healing is so ridiculous, why bother bringing to into a rated team still? Dps is just as big and can burn folks down just as easily if done right. It's all about what target you focus... And that may not always be the healer.

 

I'd say that op healing could use a minor nerf to make them actually think about their energy management... And that's it

 

no changes to merc healers ? =(

 

i would love to see another healing class running around putting up competitive healing numbers to sorc / op.

 

btw healing is pretty balanced do not change it =)

 

if anything is OP in this game it is smash spec.