RotHC // 2.0 : Healing - It's ridiculous.

[Laforet]

I have seen some strange stuff after almost 8 years of PvP MMO (several games) but healing becoming FOTM and everyone rolling one flooding the WZs with 8 man teams of 4 healers each is the strangest thing ive ever seen.

[Princz]

How exactly do you interrupt instant heals? You also realise that healer have several heals they can cast and interrupts have cool downs right?

 

Also with 30k hp being effortless to get those 10 and 11k hits are akin to 6k hits in the old system at 50.

 

I play a Sage healer and i have 2 insta heal casts.....

1 of them is only for me...

If you let me proc i can have an insta AOE cast (after minimum 2 long casts)

 

Now tell me what class you play and i ll tell you how many interupts you have....

Edited April 25, 2013 by Princz

[LovarBoy]

I play a Sage healer and i have 2 insta heal casts.....

1 of them is only for me...

If you let me proc i can have an insta AOE cast (after minimum 2 long casts)

 

Now tell me what class you play and i ll tell you how many interupts you have....

 

Interrupt is quite useless regarding to the fact that every healer has 2 instant casts and 2-3 casted / channeled heals.

 

Sorcs have the shield ( it's a "heal" ), the HoT ( isn't the AoE instant? ) - OP's have single target HoT, AoE HoT and the Probe, Merc has Missile, Emergency Scan - they can heal with them quite good. And every healer has another 1 short casting and 1 long casting heal.

 

So you interrupt one, they will cast another. If interrupt would be like a silence: okay. But so it's quite laughable.

 

30-54 is unplayable. Healers are incredibly strong to begin with, stack them with a tank and they are impossible to kill. two healers and two tanks=game over. I have no idea what 55 pvp matches look like but 30-54 is just a joke. I personally am not wasting my money on subbing if I can't even have fun pvping.

 

30-54 it's ALL about the healers. Don't know if 55 is exactly the same.

 

I'm actually inclined to agree, even though I play three healers. It's starting to seem that (with both maxed out) sorc/sage is more tank-like than a shadow/assassin.

 

It's the sad truth.

 

Its likely to be all symptomatic, sans healers TTK is stupidly fast, with healers its eternal. Lower ttk even a fraction and healers become even more overpowered.

 

Yep, unfortunately this is related to each other. The gap between no healer and healer is faaaaaaar to big.

 

Not true, I've seen in many accounts, where a group of pure DPS utterly flattens the other team, even if they have a healer.

 

Than the healer is quite a... noobie, sorry.

_______________

 

It's funny how some players ( healers? ) argument, that everything is fine.

 

There are so many healers in warzones - please, tell me, why the hag now there are 2-3 healers per warzone when there were none prior to 2.0.

[Princz]

Interrupt is quite useless regarding to the fact that every healer has 2 instant casts and 2-3 casted / channeled heals.

 

Sorcs have the shield ( it's a "heal" ), the HoT ( isn't the AoE instant? ) - OP's have single target HoT, AoE HoT and the Probe, Merc has Missile, Emergency Scan - they can heal with them quite good. And every healer has another 1 short casting and 1 long casting heal.

 

So you interrupt one, they will cast another. If interrupt would be like a silence: okay. But so it's quite laughable.

 

 

 

30-54 it's ALL about the healers. Don't know if 55 is exactly the same.

 

 

 

It's the sad truth.

 

 

 

Yep, unfortunately this is related to each other. The gap between no healer and healer is faaaaaaar to big.

 

 

 

Than the healer is quite a... noobie, sorry.

_______________

 

It's funny how some players ( healers? ) argument, that everything is fine.

 

There are so many healers in warzones - please, tell me, why the hag now there are 2-3 healers per warzone when there were none prior to 2.0.

 

Sorry sir.... but you are clueless

 

1 insta cast that can heal MAX 2K

1 Self heal

Insta casts over .... the bubble healing ... ok i ll laugh

IF you let me cast long enough my healing trance i will get ista AOE ....but then again if i can cast healing trance with no problem then i dont mind casting the aoe.

 

Short casting yes? but still casting comparing to instas of dps class.... mobility? wanna talk about the mobility of a balance Sage>? or the instas of melees?

 

There is absolutely no way to make me die faster....

Healing is fine .... it is time to learn and do something more than hit your forehead on the keyboard and kill ppl....sowwy

 

Don't know if 55 is exactly the same.

 

You have to really love those that haven't played post 2.0 end game and still come here asking for nerfs....

Positive feedback from ppl talking out of their *ss..... gg

Edited April 25, 2013 by Princz

[Yestreen]

Coordinate DPS. Call targets. The best teams how to switch targets and kill somebody that is out of position in less than 3 seconds, before the opposing team can switch guard, taunt and heal.

 

I recall a kill we made yesterday against a sniper, where our Jugg tank pushed the opposing team's sniper towards our team, and we killed him before we could stand up. Before pushing, he called out on mumble, "im pushing the sniper, burst on him in 3, 2, 1" He pushed, we burst, he died instantly, from 100% - 0% health.

 

So, given that lightning sorcs/snipers/rage jugs and maras can do ridiculous burst, all you need to do is coordinate that burst.

 

Also, good warzone teams know you can win a warzone without killing anybody (except maybe Voidstar). I have won/lost a lot of games against very good teams where there less than 10 deaths, total, for both team.

 

If you need to kill somebody, the best way to do so is not to kill the healer, but to CC the healer and kill the DPS that is standing in a bad spot. Use Fear/Flash Grenade/Whirlwind/etc. Look out for enemy Line of Sight.

 

People too often make the mistake of trying to kill certain players/classes/specs when it is much more important to simply target and kill the player that is out of position.

 

If you don't know what im talking about, watch a live stream of Ranked Warzones to learn what's going on. Several members of my guild stream when we play.

 

I understand I am mostly talking about ranked warzones here, but the same applies to unranked. Group up with 4 people. You are playing against a pug so less coordination is needed, but it can be done.

 

Hope this helps

[Cilas]

Coordinate DPS. Call targets. The best teams how to switch targets and kill somebody that is out of position in less than 3 seconds, before the opposing team can switch guard, taunt and heal.

 

I recall a kill we made yesterday against a sniper, where our Jugg tank pushed the opposing team's sniper towards our team, and we killed him before we could stand up. Before pushing, he called out on mumble, "im pushing the sniper, burst on him in 3, 2, 1" He pushed, we burst, he died instantly, from 100% - 0% health.

 

So, given that lightning sorcs/snipers/rage jugs and maras can do ridiculous burst, all you need to do is coordinate that burst.

 

Also, good warzone teams know you can win a warzone without killing anybody (except maybe Voidstar). I have won/lost a lot of games against very good teams where there less than 10 deaths, total, for both team.

 

If you need to kill somebody, the best way to do so is not to kill the healer, but to CC the healer and kill the DPS that is standing in a bad spot. Use Fear/Flash Grenade/Whirlwind/etc. Look out for enemy Line of Sight.

 

People too often make the mistake of trying to kill certain players/classes/specs when it is much more important to simply target and kill the player that is out of position.

 

If you don't know what im talking about, watch a live stream of Ranked Warzones to learn what's going on. Several members of my guild stream when we play.

 

I understand I am mostly talking about ranked warzones here, but the same applies to unranked. Group up with 4 people. You are playing against a pug so less coordination is needed, but it can be done.

 

Hope this helps

 

Exactly. This level of coordination can be more challenging in regs, but the coordination of the opposing team would be just as challenging

[crispb]

Sorry sir.... but you are clueless

 

1 insta cast that can heal MAX 2K

1 Self heal

Insta casts over .... the bubble healing ... ok i ll laugh

IF you let me cast long enough my healing trance i will get ista AOE ....but then again if i can cast healing trance with no problem then i dont mind casting the aoe.

 

Short casting yes? but still casting comparing to instas of dps class.... mobility? wanna talk about the mobility of a balance Sage>? or the instas of melees?

 

There is absolutely no way to make me die faster....

Healing is fine .... it is time to learn and do something more than hit your forehead on the keyboard and kill ppl....sowwy

 

 

 

You have to really love those that haven't played post 2.0 end game and still come here asking for nerfs....

Positive feedback from ppl talking out of their *ss..... gg

 

I love how you say "if you leave me alone long enought to cap". Hello! force speed for range + whatever long cast you want. It effective works as a insta cast because as a dps you have to play it perfect to keep proper range to interupt the force speed+ long cast heal combo. Put los into the equation after force speed, then you long cast heal on yourself is uninteruptable in the majority of situations.

[Soxbadger]

No doubt, but no reason to even argue with some people. The proof is in the numbers. Pre 2.0 it was actually somewhat regular youd in REGS to have NO healers on your team. Now its almost completely rare I have less than 2 healers on my team, but i guess that is completely coincidental......

 

The idea that having NO healers was preferable to 3 healers is somewhat sad as a healer.

 

If you want wzs to be 8 on 8 dps, that is fine, but some of us actually like strategy.

 

And if all the pvp players hate healers so much, Ill just go raid, where people understand what a healer is to a team. I always thought people in pvp would appreciate someone else trying to keep them alive and helping them succeed in a warzone.

 

(edit)

 

To the above poster. Good dps can easily negate force speed if they understand their class. For example some classes can jump at the healer who is force speeding, other classes can pull them back.

 

Now if you are smart and save these moves for when the healer escapes....

 

If you arent smart and OPEN with these moves...

 

Its strategy. The best pvpers on my server can kill me, the bad ones cant. Go figure.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Soxbadger

[DimeStax]

This is a troll post right?

[crispb]

The idea that having NO healers was preferable to 3 healers is somewhat sad as a healer.

 

If you want wzs to be 8 on 8 dps, that is fine, but some of us actually like strategy.

 

And if all the pvp players hate healers so much, Ill just go raid, where people understand what a healer is to a team. I always thought people in pvp would appreciate someone else trying to keep them alive and helping them succeed in a warzone.

 

(edit)

 

To the above poster. Good dps can easily negate force speed if they understand their class. For example some classes can jump at the healer who is force speeding, other classes can pull them back.

 

Now if you are smart and save these moves for when the healer escapes....

 

If you arent smart and OPEN with these moves...

 

Its strategy. The best pvpers on my server can kill me, the bad ones cant. Go figure.

 

I never open with those moves on a force speed class, But GOOD healers can force sprint to los in 1.5 seconds (global cooldown) neer any objective on any map. So answer me this Q, i hit a force speed class he sprints neer at the same time and los within the next global cooldown. I would argue by the time i get los and leap ( jugg here) his channeld cast or big heal is almost off. Its not possible a lot of the time to get los after force sprint and interupt in time to stop the big heal or channeled cast.

[Princz]

I never open with those moves on a force speed class, But GOOD healers can force sprint to los in 1.5 seconds (global cooldown) neer any objective on any map. So answer me this Q, i hit a force speed class he sprints neer at the same time and los within the next global cooldown. I would argue by the time i get los and leap ( jugg here) his channeld cast or big heal is almost off. Its not possible a lot of the time to get los after force sprint and interupt in time to stop the big heal or channeled cast.

 

and that is your reason why healers are op and need a nerf?

 

All classes have escape mecs

 

I dont see your point

[crispb]

and that is your reason why healers are op and need a nerf?

 

All classes have escape mecs

 

I dont see your point

 

My orignal point was that with force speed and GOOD healer play, the big healed or channeled cast effectively works as a insta cast big heal. It was in response to an ealier post that said sages only had 2 effective insta heals.

 

 

And also i wanted to counter act your point that GOOD dps can negate the gains from force speed, i think the situation i presented displayed how good dps cannot counter the force speed big heal combo

Edited April 25, 2013 by crispb

[Soxbadger]

I never open with those moves on a force speed class, But GOOD healers can force sprint to los in 1.5 seconds (global cooldown) neer any objective on any map. So answer me this Q, i hit a force speed class he sprints neer at the same time and los within the next global cooldown. I would argue by the time i get los and leap ( jugg here) his channeld cast or big heal is almost off. Its not possible a lot of the time to get los after force sprint and interupt in time to stop the big heal or channeled cast.

 

Well no one is going to kill me one on one if I really dont want to be killed. That just is not going to happen, and as a healer i feel that is absolutely necessary for my class to be useful. If a dps can beat a healer 1 on 1, there is no point in rolling a healer because all I can do is delay the inevitable.

 

Now to the response. You have won the battle against a healer if you make me run away and heal myself. Why? Because I am not healing other people, my usefulness/utility is entirely related to "keeping other people alive" if I run los, if I escape out of your range, I am also out of the range of my team.

 

When i said to use pull back etc, it was under the premise that you were going to attack the healer 2-1, 3-1, using stuns, slow etc, to ensure death.

 

If you are only going 1 on 1, I dont really believe you should be able to kill a healer if that healer is just healing themselves.

 

(Edit)

 

I agree, 1 on 1 a dps cant really compete with all the tools I have in my toolbox.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Soxbadger

[crispb]

Well no one is going to kill me one on one if I really dont want to be killed. That just is not going to happen, and as a healer i feel that is absolutely necessary for my class to be useful. If a dps can beat a healer 1 on 1, there is no point in rolling a healer because all I can do is delay the inevitable.

 

Now to the response. You have won the battle against a healer if you make me run away and heal myself. Why? Because I am not healing other people, my usefulness/utility is entirely related to "keeping other people alive" if I run los, if I escape out of your range, I am also out of the range of my team.

 

When i said to use pull back etc, it was under the premise that you were going to attack the healer 2-1, 3-1, using stuns, slow etc, to ensure death.

 

If you are only going 1 on 1, I dont really believe you should be able to kill a healer if that healer is just healing themselves.

 

(Edit)

 

I agree, 1 on 1 a dps cant really compete with all the tools I have in my toolbox.

 

I agree that 1 dps should not be able to kill a healer, no problem with that. With the state of healing now i would argue that most competent healers can tank 1 dps and still crank out very respectable healing to the rest of the group. WOuld you agree?. I think 1 healer should be able to handle 1 dps, but have a major reduction in outbound heals to the rest of the group. Right now this is not the case, it takes 2 dps to negate outbound healing.

[Tycoon]

I agree that 1 dps should not be able to kill a healer, no problem with that. With the state of healing now i would argue that most competent healers can tank 1 dps and still crank out very respectable healing to the rest of the group. WOuld you agree?. I think 1 healer should be able to handle 1 dps, but have a major reduction in outbound heals to the rest of the group. Right now this is not the case, it takes 2 dps to negate outbound healing.

 

Sorry I have to disagree with you. I think one dps should be enough to overwhelm a healer to the point he cant heal anyone else but himself or he dies. If the healer has guard, than it should take 2 dps to see the same results. If there were more healing debuffs, and the interrupt's cooldown wasn't so long, than I think the game would be more balanced. I think sundering assault should apply a healing debuff to it's target. I think any ability that reduces armor rating should also reduce the amount of healing that target produces and receives.

[Soxbadger]

I agree that 1 dps should not be able to kill a healer, no problem with that. With the state of healing now i would argue that most competent healers can tank 1 dps and still crank out very respectable healing to the rest of the group. WOuld you agree?. I think 1 healer should be able to handle 1 dps, but have a major reduction in outbound heals to the rest of the group. Right now this is not the case, it takes 2 dps to negate outbound healing.

 

Its hard to balance because healing is reliant on other people actually being there to receive healing. Right now a healer who is good can probably have 1 dps beat on them and still heal effectively. With dps it would become very difficult to do anything but self-heal and survive.

 

But therein lies the problem. If 1 dps can negate 1 healer, you are back to healers dont really mean much. If I cant fend off a single dps and still be able to heal, my team is just better off with me as a dps and then its just who can kill who first.

 

In most warzones Im taking 400k-500k damage, that means as the healer Im still likely dying the most, Im just not being insta-killed 10x+ each zone.

 

I guess its just about what style of game do you want. I personally dont like staring at a gate 50% of a wz.

[Tycoon]

Well no one is going to kill me one on one if I really dont want to be killed. That just is not going to happen, and as a healer i feel that is absolutely necessary for my class to be useful. If a dps can beat a healer 1 on 1, there is no point in rolling a healer because all I can do is delay the inevitable.

 

Now to the response. You have won the battle against a healer if you make me run away and heal myself. Why? Because I am not healing other people, my usefulness/utility is entirely related to "keeping other people alive" if I run los, if I escape out of your range, I am also out of the range of my team.

 

When i said to use pull back etc, it was under the premise that you were going to attack the healer 2-1, 3-1, using stuns, slow etc, to ensure death.

 

If you are only going 1 on 1, I dont really believe you should be able to kill a healer if that healer is just healing themselves.

 

(Edit)

 

I agree, 1 on 1 a dps cant really compete with all the tools I have in my toolbox.

 

I think teamwork should be used to accomplish what you are suggesting. A healer should only be able to out-heal a dps' damage if he has guard.

 

Anyone who believes a healer can solo any class in a 1vs1 match means they enjoy their over-powered characters, and choose to ruin the game instead of making it better.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Tycoon

[Soxbadger]

Healers really cant solo any class.

 

When I say someone shouldnt be able to beat me 1 on 1, that means I am just standing there healing or running away, etc.

 

My job is to keep dps alive to do the killing.

[Tycoon]

Its hard to balance because healing is reliant on other people actually being there to receive healing. Right now a healer who is good can probably have 1 dps beat on them and still heal effectively. With dps it would become very difficult to do anything but self-heal and survive.

 

But therein lies the problem. If 1 dps can negate 1 healer, you are back to healers dont really mean much. If I cant fend off a single dps and still be able to heal, my team is just better off with me as a dps and then its just who can kill who first.

 

In most warzones Im taking 400k-500k damage, that means as the healer Im still likely dying the most, Im just not being insta-killed 10x+ each zone.

 

I guess its just about what style of game do you want. I personally dont like staring at a gate 50% of a wz.

 

Right now a healer might receive 400k-500k damage, but you are also putting out one mill in healing. Everytime I saw more then 3 dpsers do 400k-500k damage, there is atleast one healer who has 1mill-1.5mill in healing.

 

Healing should only be used to negate damage, not cancel it out. If you want to survive a dpser, don't expect to use healing all the time and hope for him to give up. You will also have to dps him to survive the encounter.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Tycoon

[Tycoon]

Healers really cant solo any class.

 

When I say someone shouldnt be able to beat me 1 on 1, that means I am just standing there healing or running away, etc.

 

My job is to keep dps alive to do the killing.

 

But right now healing completely cancels out all damage done. I think that should only happen if the healer has guard, or pops a cooldown. Otherwise healing is only there to negate damage.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Tycoon

[crispb]

Its hard to balance because healing is reliant on other people actually being there to receive healing. Right now a healer who is good can probably have 1 dps beat on them and still heal effectively. With dps it would become very difficult to do anything but self-heal and survive.

 

But therein lies the problem. If 1 dps can negate 1 healer, you are back to healers dont really mean much. If I cant fend off a single dps and still be able to heal, my team is just better off with me as a dps and then its just who can kill who first.

 

In most warzones Im taking 400k-500k damage, that means as the healer Im still likely dying the most, Im just not being insta-killed 10x+ each zone.

 

I guess its just about what style of game do you want. I personally dont like staring at a gate 50% of a wz.

 

Some good points here, but when you get 3+ healers in a wz there is just not enough dps to counter cross healing. I just hate the three healers games, no one dies and it so frustrating. I would be fine to leave healing how it is but put a cap of 2 healers per wz and i think nost problems would be solved. With only two healers per they could still be very powerfull but the net dps "with focus" should be able to burn one down even with cross healing. Sadly, i think there will never be a cap on wz composistion so we are faced with 3 healer stalemate games that blow fat ****!

[Soxbadger]

Tycoon,

 

I never dps, it makes no sense. My entire skill tree, all of my armor, all of my stats are built to be a healer. In an encounter I am never dpsing anyone down, unless someone is dumb enough to attack a position where they are outnumbered. My job is to heal dps and for dps to kill the dps who attack me.

 

So if im required to dps people down, why am I healing? I might as well just break out my dps and win most 1 on 1 battles.

 

Some good points here, but when you get 3+ healers in a wz there is just not enough dps to counter cross healing. I just hate the three healers games, no one dies and it so frustrating. I would be fine to leave healing how it is but put a cap of 2 healers per wz and i think nost problems would be solved. With only two healers per they could still be very powerfull but the net dps "with focus" should be able to burn one down even with cross healing. Sadly, i think there will never be a cap on wz composistion so we are faced with 3 healer stalemate games that blow fat ****!

 

I would be fine with you having to select roles for wzs. I actually hate having more than 3 healers (except voidstar defense), because it usually makes it hard to take a position. Now if you happen to zerg the right places and get one, sure 2 healers at each node in a 4/4 is going to be tough. But if the other team gets 2 nodes, its going to be hard to take a position.

 

Problem is this will slow down warzone ques.

[crispb]

It seems like so many good idea's to tweak pvp are always limited by que legths on various servers. If boiware would just implement cross server wz, they could do some great things for pvp without the byproduct of longer que times.

 

 

IN SHORT BIOAWARE PISS ON CARTEL PACKS AND GET CROSS SERVER QUES GOING.

 

 

Great civil discusion this afternoon, I have to go take a fliud dynamics test now, so iam out of the thread.

 

Crisb

[Zajfien]

Ive seen healers run around and heal them selves while being chased, cant even out dmg the instant heals. Little op

 

Well if their running then they are outta play.... what you want, an easy kill.

[Arkerus]

Exactly. This level of coordination can be more challenging in regs, but the coordination of the opposing team would be just as challenging

 

You don't get this coordination in pugs. Neither side does. If you are admitting it takes strict coordination to even bring down a healer, that's basically an admission healing is way OP. You simply can't tag team, switch and call out targets in pug WZs with any level of effectiveness.

 

Healing has got to be toned down. The game isn't strictly balanced at ranked. And from what we are getting out of rank, they are ending up With stalemates with each side bringing 3 healers.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Arkerus