Dear Ancient Hypergates Heroes

[Astarica]

And what if the enemy team does not comply with your recommendations and sends, say 5 to your pylon and 2 stealths to theirs. 5 good players can easily prevent you from capping and the 2 stealth can defend. Your tactic only works, again an equally non flexible team. How you split up your team is absolutely depends on the situation. No preset rules.

 

Have 4 guys go to middle, pick up 4 orbs, and then slaughter the 2 stealth defenders. If 4 guys can't beat 2, you're already doomed.

[foxmob]

Have 4 guys go to middle, pick up 4 orbs, and then slaughter the 2 stealth defenders. If 4 guys can't beat 2, you're already doomed.

 

if 2 stealth can't delay 4 ppl long enough for help to arrive, then those are some sorry stealth. that strat isn't going to fly against decent stealthies. but I can see it working half the time in regs.

[Astarica]

if 2 stealth can't delay 4 ppl long enough for help to arrive, then those are some sorry stealth. that strat isn't going to fly against decent stealthies. but I can see it working half the time in regs.

 

Um it's more like you can stall against regs but not if these guys are any good. 4 guys all cap at the same time. 10 seconds later you've 4 guys with full white bars from trying to sap them, so your stealth has to come out of stealth and then die horribly because they also have no energy/force left to do anything, not that it'd matter against such odds. The end. Besides, what help is coming? You're using a very unorthodox, more like cowardly strategy, which reflects your team's lack of confidence at actually winning a direct fight (because if you can win a direct fight there's no reason to be so fancy), so why would help be coming if you can't possibly fight the enemy straight up?

 

This is pretty much like the '2 guys at enemy goaline Huttball strat'. If it works, it's because your team can play 5on8 and still win, not because it's actually a good idea. Though unlike the Huttball version, using a strat like this implies extreme weakness of your team and is fairly contradictory to what you're attempting to achieve.

[SystemProcess]

I hate it, too. My boyfriend and I usually play dual Sin or dual Op, and we always ask the team to stay away from the pylon so we can cap it about ~30 sec before the end of each round.

 

But, without fail, some idiot will constantly run over to their pylon alone and feed them kills, as well as put them on the defensive...so we end up wasting our time.

 

And, of course, if you say anything about it in ops chat, they usually say "i do wat i want" and keep doing it.

 

Bad.

[Wrthlessnoob]

I hate it, too. My boyfriend and I usually play dual Sin or dual Op, and we always ask the team to stay away from the pylon so we can cap it about ~30 sec before the end of each round.

 

But, without fail, some idiot will constantly run over to their pylon alone and feed them kills, as well as put them on the defensive...so we end up wasting our time.

 

And, of course, if you say anything about it in ops chat, they usually say "i do wat i want" and keep doing it.

 

Bad.

 

Oh god yes. Several times I have tried to help people learn from their mistakes, and they give that same "I do what I want" response.

[sauerkraut]

Have 4 guys go to middle, pick up 4 orbs, and then slaughter the 2 stealth defenders. If 4 guys can't beat 2, you're already doomed.

 

Or not, since i have 1 more guy in reserve just for situations like this.

[Przemo_No]

I've played a Kinetic Combat Shadow since launch, and I have to agree with the OP. Generally, unless you're a stealth class with REALLY good CC and escape mechanics, you have no business trying to cap an enemy pylon. Your skillset is too critical to running orbs, controlling the mid-field, and defending your own team's pylon.

 

Now, I consistently win games by ninja capping pylons, but then again my spec is built specifically for doing so.

 

For starters: if there's more than one player defending the pylon, I don't even bother. I'll go run orbs since I took 2 points in Celerity and my Force Speed is on a 15-second cooldown.

 

If there's a single defender, it's really easy if his/her trinket is down. I stealth in using Blackout, get on top of the pylon (and preferably out of his/her field of view), and open with Force Lift. That way, I'm already out of stealth, they're CC'd, and I can insta-click to cap.

 

If they manage to trinket it gets a little trickier. I'll go for a restealth, wait for combat to break, then use Mind Maze. Once they're CC'd you have to be SUPER QUICK to break stealth and click on the pylon. You cannot waste even half a second or the CC will wear off before you can cap.

 

My point is this - ninja capping takes precision, timing, and insane amounts of situational awareness. Unless your class is built for that, you're better off killing the enemy, running orbs, and defending your own pylon.

 

The OP is right. Don't rush to your death trying to overwhelm a well-guarded enemy pylon. You're just feeding the enemy points.

 

Cannot agree more.

 

As an Infiltrator.

 

BTW how about of mind-mazing them twice instead of lifting?

Provided they are clumsy enough NOT to try to call 4 help or put you out of stealth by some knockback or so..

[kamikrazy]

Sounds like a pug problem. Play ranked. Split squad AHs are epic fun.

 

...

No duh it's a pug problem.

 

For all the hoohahs that like to suggest "play ranked" as the solution to most problems...

Because what's more fun than rounding up 7 others and waiting around in the hopes another team is queued up, especially with the reluctance of people to queue due to the buggy bolster system.

 

Also, this isn't a strategy thread for Hypergates so I'm not sure why some of you are bringing up unorthodox situations. My message is simple: Don't mindlessly feed the other team.

[foxmob]

Sounds like a pug problem. Play ranked. Split squad AHs are epic fun.

 

rated AHG are the worst AHGs by far. there is some strat involved, but for the most part, it devolves into a boring circle jerk where snipers camp the entrances to guard nodes, melee dps chill behind him waiting for a sin or pyro to pull someone who gets too close or goes for an orb. at least one sage chills near the sniper to rescue one of your own guys who gets pulled. stealthy guards node. healer stand halfway between node and mid (on the precipice). it's extremely....frustratingly...dull. I'd rather stalemate at mid in CW and NC or the first door on VS...or lose a 0-0 HB to a turtle under the platform.

 

this type of thing can only play out in rated, and I seem to encounter it almost every time. screw rated AHG.

[LarryRow]

Foxmob, as long as we are in perma-preseason, why not take a risk and send 6 guys right? If it doesn't work, who cares, it's not like your rating matters. Edited April 23, 2013 by LarryRow

[ranscow]

Good post, OP.

[SomeJagoff]

think I've only been in 3-4 matches in the past 5 months where a team went to the enemy pylon to "stall" them, but actually capped and held the entire round. Each of those times, it was a premade (one time it was a full guild 8m premade in the same match) holding it. Every other time (hundreds of matches), it's usually joe bob and his buddy who think that they're doing the team a service by stalling the enemy team (feeding them kills), which always results in the enemy team being "stalled" for maybe 2 seconds longer than they otherwise would have been, but with the added bonus of a higher score off the bat from the free kills.

 

So yeah, I agree with OP, unfortunately, it's just going to get worse with this lolbolster system.

 

All the bad players are joining wzs now because they think that they can get easy wins, except with or without gear, if you ignore objectives (which bad players do), you're not helping your team. Too many people erroneously believ ethat bolster "evens the playing field" except the problem is, from a stat basis (assuming they ever fix the multitude of exploits, of course) min-maxed augmented gear is always going to be better than generic bolster of stats to approximate levels. Not only that, but given the fact that one team is going to be in min-maxed augmented gear on teamspeak, while the other team is going to be solo queue bolstered pve gear, the playing field will Never be "even."

 

So my only advice to OP is, queue up with your guild or friends or strangers that play well, just by virtue of being in a group queue, there's a very high likelihood that you're going to end up in a match Against the solo queue baddies who are there for free wins and you'll probably be matched with another group or premade on your team as well.

[kamikrazy]

So my only advice to OP is, queue up with your guild or friends or strangers that play well, just by virtue of being in a group queue, there's a very high likelihood that you're going to end up in a match Against the solo queue baddies who are there for free wins and you'll probably be matched with another group or premade on your team as well.

 

Oh, I rarely queue solo. I'll do it if I have some spare time at work or if I'm the odd-man out when my guildies have a 4-man premade. Some people, on the other hand, are gluttons for punishment and possess greater patience/willpower than I do and predominantly solo-queue.

 

However, even with a full 4-man premade, 1 or 2 bad pugs can totally ruin it for the team against good opposition. These "heroes" would be better off waiting at our pylon, while one from my premade will babysit them because I can't trust even 4 pugs to watch the pylon, but that's a different story...

 

In other warzones, it's possible to carry players, but bad pugs in AH are a disease.

Edited April 23, 2013 by kamikrazy

[Master-Nala]

Equally annoying are the dps heroes who never stop to think "Man, we are wrecking these guys. But we can just keep doing it. No way they would try to take our pylon with coordinated stealth, even though that's the only way they can win. That one schmuck non-stealther we left guarding is enough."

 

ROFL!! Oh man, I hate that.

[Ridickilis]

In other warzones, it's possible to carry players, but bad pugs in AH are a disease.

 

I'm one of those glutton for punishment, solo types (no guild, no premade, no nothing).

 

I think you nailed it here, this is my problem with this WZ in a nutshell. On the other 4 maps I feel I can, I don't want to say 'carry', but can have a bigger impact on a win than I can on this map. I don't feel one or two players could win this one alone.

[Banderal]

I'm one of those glutton for punishment, solo types (no guild, no premade, no nothing).

 

I think you nailed it here, this is my problem with this WZ in a nutshell. On the other 4 maps I feel I can, I don't want to say 'carry', but can have a bigger impact on a win than I can on this map. I don't feel one or two players could win this one alone.

 

Depends on if the 1 or 2 are stealth or not. I've been in several "lost" games that we won because some stealther (me, or someone else) capped their not-well-guarded-pylon at the last second and flipped the score. I think that counts as that person pretty much solo winning the game. But, yeah, I guess that with straight up killing or grabbing orbs, this game is just not one you can turn around easily.

[Astarica]

The guys feeding them free kills aren't any harder to carry than the guys who decide to attack a side cannon in Alderaan in a suicide run as that cannon is usually guarded by the best player of the enemy side, and unlike the case of AH, the defender also has a huge home court advantage due to the speeders whereas at least in Hypergates there isn't any particular advantage for the defender as a function of terrain.

 

Stealth capping only works against bad players. Just because there's a lot of them doesn't mean this is a strategy you should count on, though of course if you're behind you don't have a choice and just have to hope the other team is dumb. Like I said earlier, you can have a guy stand by the WZ powerup just facing the pylon and you'd never be able to stealth cap that guy with one person (he's way too far away to do this) and yet he can reach the pylon on time if you ignore him. Of course you can kill him but that should immediately give away your plan, though stranger things have happened in WZs.

 

Using 2 stealther basically never works unless your team is way stronger because it implies you're fighitng 5 on 7 in middle. If the guys at middle are at all good they should roll the 5 rather easily or at least be able to grab an orb while fighting and then your surprise attack is doomed to fail because someone's going to come back to drop off an orb and be on time to assist the lone defender. Of course there are plenty of teams that never leave middle but then you're again counting on the enemy being dumb as a strategy, and that shouldn't be how you approach games unless you're desperate.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Astarica

[Jherad]

TLDR: Dying in Ancient Hypergates is bad. Stop dying so much. You're a bad player if you die a lot. Don't be a bad player.

 

 

This PSA was paid for by the Association of Frustrated PvP'ers

 

 

I think we made almost every mistake possible. Lost the pylon TWICE. And yet...

 

I love it when the other team feeds.

[foxmob]

Foxmob, as long as we are in perma-preseason, why not take a risk and send 6 guys right? If it doesn't work, who cares, it's not like your rating matters.

 

the scenario I described are intentionally designed to prevent losing nodes or giving up orbs. there's a chain of defenders going back to the pylon. everyone is in voice. you'd have to have 6 stealthies and hope the defenders don't notice that there's only 2 ppl on the other side of mid. it's the equivalent of New Jersey Devils hockey in the late 90s, early 2Ks. or, if you watch international soccer matches, it's how international teams play: defensive traps and pinches. it's just the most frustratingly boring stuff to watch or, imo, play. give me regs with idiots screwing up and creating massive point swings any day.

 

no. the way these ridiculously boring matches are won/lost are...

• someone gets killed cuz his dumb *** wandered too close to mid
  
• one of the teams controls the wings, boxes the other team at mid and super slows them while the wings sprint in for the cap. even then, they need to be able to hold their 2 cap. but it's possible to get right out of mid cuz the whole other team is bunched up there.
  

 

I don't mean to imply that there's no strategy or counter strat involved. it's just that it becomes a ridiculously boring match. dps just sitting there, not even guarding anything. I realize this isn't call of duty, but that's a total snore fest.

Edited April 23, 2013 by foxmob

[LarryRow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, typical AHG matches start with each team sending 8 people out the left door. If you drop 6 guys out the right door, they will get to the pylon around the same time as the other team. Sure, the other team can send people through the tunnel to your left node, but how many do they send? The result, it sounds like to me, would be 2 smaller-scale battles, one at each node, resulting in people getting killed and either leading to a 2-cap scenario, or a more interesting battle at mid.

 

It's certainly risky because it basically opens up a similar Prisoner's Dilemma to what to pick for x-y-z on Alderaan Civil War, but at least it won't be such a rut, eh?

[Godlymuppet]

Depends on if the 1 or 2 are stealth or not. I've been in several "lost" games that we won because some stealther (me, or someone else) capped their not-well-guarded-pylon at the last second and flipped the score. I think that counts as that person pretty much solo winning the game. But, yeah, I guess that with straight up killing or grabbing orbs, this game is just not one you can turn around easily.

 

That still doesn't count as solo winning apparently. I took the opposition node three times in a row the other day. The opposition scored zero at the end. Felt so sorry for their guy on defender, he must have dealt with a lot of insults. He did stand on the damn node though the *******.

 

All that and not one MVP vote. You can't account for the stupid, even from your own team. You would have thought me yelling AND IT'S A HATRICK would have made my team realise why we won by such a landslide but no. Lol

Edited April 23, 2013 by Godlymuppet