Shadows/assassins need a rebalance

[JP_Legatus]

There is no reasoning with the sins on this thread. Between Cycao and his band of misfits, they will argue till their lips are blue that "sins are just fine and actually need buffs" But I guess you wouldnt expect them to say the truth when their main is on the line.

 

I don't know why you're still posting on this thread. You've made it clear you play in trash regs and never go into rated.

WE ALL AGREE DECEPTION IS OP IN REGS. That's why I've said a million times electric ambush needs to be fixed.

 

The part that you and your friends clearly DON'T understand is that in rateds sins are middle tier dps AT BEST, just about even with sorcs, mercs, and leth operatives and pretty much losing to all the other classes. In fact the only class that everyone will agree is WORSE than sins for certain is probably concealment operatives and MAYBE merc dps. Any other spec and you're up in the air for a debate on which is worse.

And my answer to those two comparisons is that sins have madness dps, a spec which quite possibly could be worse than concealment, I'm not sure which one is actually more terrible.

 

If you haven't been into rateds, I don't know why you think you're more qualified to discuss balance when multiple rated players in this thread have told you you're way off.

The spec is only OP in ****** regs, it's second-rate in high-level play.

Edited October 27, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[JP_Legatus]

They need help with sustained damage which is so-so currently in PvP and terrible in PvE. I have said I do not agree with buffing maul.

 

I'm not a terrible player and play a fairly wide range of classes and specs and really don't think any class is overpowered like the majority of people posting here. The damage for rage is fine, op healers are fine, the amount of CC is fine and so on and so on. And I usually play madness or a hybrid with lighting charge, I would love to see that spec get some love but it's currently the worst spec in the game (I can get into it with you with that if you don't believe me) which is why I play deception because for the first time in forever it can finally be used in a ranked setting that's not penalizing a team.

 

Honestly the only thing you keep repeating is their opening burst which comes at the cost at all their cooldowns and you, like everyone who would rather this class just get deleted from the game, are the ones who really don't know what they're talking about. I hear 'every warzone has X amount of sins' and what have you, all that means it's a fairly popular class and everything thinks it's easy which it's not. Every class has a super easy rotation but once you get out of that it's when you see people struggle which is why so many players suck at every single spec.

 

Too make it harder people don't even mention what class/spec they're using to which assassins are causing them all this grief. I know at once you played vengeance '3 years ago' and are playing a mystery spec which apparently every assassin eats up in three global coodowns every single time.

 

All you have to do is take a hard look at ranked warzones pre and post 2.0 for 8v8 for dps specs. Pre 2.0 it was pretty much pyro, snipers and warriors. Post 2.0 it was snipers, warriors and sorcs and mercs started to see their way into the mix, very few teams would run with deception. Though no one thinks that the ranked scene matters, and why would they as it only consists of the best PvPers this game has to offer. This is why myself and others calls this a reg star spec, it excels at tearing through bads, bads who don't min/max their gear, backpeddle, keyboard turn and click, don't use taunts, cant CC, has no idea how every ability functions and in hand knows no counters for all specs/classes...thus making it regstar.

 

Take that as you want. I want deception to get sustained (not through a damage increase to maul), I have written a few times I rather them lose the duplicity proc from low slash and put it back into a positioning and defensive ability and not offensive. The damage potential can be match by mercs, sorcs, warriors and now PT's. Believe it all you want but the damage that all burst classes can put out (minus ops) is more in line now than it has been in a while but all people can see is a stealth class exceeding at 1v1 for some stupid reason and opening burst which is what a stealth class is.

 

This Fozy guy doesn't play rateds. He's a regstar which explains (at least to me) full well why he thinks deception is OP. I tend to agree that in regs against **** teams, deception is pretty broken.

Problem is, he doesn't do rateds, where deception sins aren't even that good. Nor does he realize that if he were to face a good team in regs, deception wouldn't be that good there either.

 

I've been ************ about electric ambush since 2.0 was released and now we see the impact it is causing. I knew this was going to happen as soon as I saw the talent in the tree. I don't know how other people aren't more vocal about this talent. It's one of the worst design decisions this game has ever seen.

 

It's really frustrating when I have to come in here and defend my main's rated viability when it isn't good in rateds to begin with because regstars want to nerf a spec that is broken in regs. I'd really like for once in this game's freaking lifetime to go into an arena comp with my sin and my team is like "oh cool, we have a deception sin, they are great in mid fight so we should do ok against some top teams with this awesome comp". Instead I get to switch to my mara every team rated day only to come into the pvp forums and see this ****.

 

At least there is one other sin on this forums who actually knows what he's talking about. Hope you're still playing this game when our servers merge Still waiting for a chance to play in some games with you and arika.

Edited October 27, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[cycao]

"Oh I usally play madness but oh no is why I play OP FotM deception cuz i dont want penalizing a team " - makes sense.

 

Learn to play scrapper scoundrel, assault commando, watchman sentinel to understanding what worst spec in game IS indeed.

 

Oh honey.

 

That response you just gave is why deception is probably not going to get nerfed, at least not solely based from feedbacks from this forum. Write up a good read with arguments from both sides and then someone who wants it nerfed responds like that.

 

Id also point out I was talking about ranked and as it currently stands deception or even darkness sins have a cemented spot in arenas like operatives and marauders have or even arsenal now.

Edited October 27, 2013 by cycao

[Lalainnia]

Madness assassins are the worse spec in the game anyone that can't admit that has problem. I'm bias on certain things but its plain as day that madness/balance assassins are awful in pvp and pve. The spec is just clunky and has stupid build up time all while being in melee range with crappy mitigation abilities. Deception has one of the highest controlled bursts if not the highest, but its sustained damage is pretty bad. Main thing that iv'e seen and experienced was people getting upset about are the bad decpetion assassins that just triple if not quadruple maul(yes its very possible) someone and get lucky crits and end up killing someone and by bioware buffing maul:( it just encourages that even more so.

 

Force regain needs to be looked at for both dps specs. Imo Mandess/balance spec needs a total revamp for assassins/shadows ever since 2.0 spec was derped used to actually use project and maul then they took it out and you just dot up and spam the hell out of trash/double strike, it's not even fun for me anymore I especially miss the talent that used to give 10% bonus melee damage after using project(think it was called twin towers). I personally hate shadows/assassins with a passion only made one to learn the class (yes its 55),but not going to sit back and see let people say madness sins aren't the worst spec in the game. Deception on the other hand just needs sustained but if they do get it should cut back on that burst......

[Zoom_VI]

5000+ damage AOE in 1.5 seconds is not fluff.

 

5k lolwut

Somebody is stacking dps gear, you can't do that in tank gear and running full dps gear in Shieldtech's current is pointless anyway.

[Technohic]

"Oh I usally play madness but oh no is why I play OP FotM deception cuz i dont want penalizing a team " - makes sense.

 

Learn to play scrapper scoundrel, assault commando, watchman sentinel to understanding what worst spec in game IS indeed.

 

I'm actually working on getting my scrapper and my deception sin both geared up and have been playing both. The thing is, assassin can be shut down just as easily as a scrapper. The difference is, assassins have more tools to deal with things after that, but isn't all that great if a team just ruins their opening rotation; and their opener is a little stronger, but it really doesn't need to be. Teams failing to throw just a half second assist to throw that opener out of whack is why assassins do so well in regs and not so well in ranked.

 

Really; scrappers need more tools (one thing could be adding defense and energy regent to sneak the way there is defense force regen to blackout) AND sustained damage and to keep what they already have in burst; and assassins could probably afford to give up some burst (maybe the ability to have so much recklessness crits as mentioned) but it should be a trade for more sustained damage. Keep in mind, I am just re-familiarizing myself with my toons here, so the more experienced sins and scrappers could confirm or correct me at will.

 

It's not really as bad either way as people might think IMO, but tweaks are still needed and I do not believe the upcoming patch, which is really aimed at assassins in PvE is going to make the perception of PvP balance that much worse.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Technohic

[TonyDragonflame]

I'm actually working on getting my scrapper and my deception sin both geared up and have been playing both. The thing is, assassin can be shut down just as easily as a scrapper. The difference is, assassins have more tools to deal with things after that, but isn't all that great if a team just ruins their opening rotation; and their opener is a little stronger, but it really doesn't need to be. Teams failing to throw just a half second assist to throw that opener out of whack is why assassins do so well in regs and not so well in ranked.

 

Really; scrappers need more tools (one thing could be adding defense and energy regent to sneak the way there is defense force regen to blackout) AND sustained damage and to keep what they already have in burst; and assassins could probably afford to give up some burst (maybe the ability to have so much recklessness crits as mentioned) but it should be a trade for more sustained damage. Keep in mind, I am just re-familiarizing myself with my toons here, so the more experienced sins and scrappers could confirm or correct me at will.

 

It's not really as bad either way as people might think IMO, but tweaks are still needed and I do not believe the upcoming patch, which is really aimed at assassins in PvE is going to make the perception of PvP balance that much worse.

 

Scrapper is dead spec. Yes, conc operative (with much more faster and smoother animations), when you bind some hotkeys combos with macros still deadly in right hands versus bads, but scrapper... just trash.

 

My scrapper 89 valor sitting on shelf. I try play him arenas.. no thanks. I play my guardian, sentinel, shadow, vanguard, gunslinger and lowbies commando and sage...

 

I dunno why you say shadow not for ranked - I have excellent win/lose ration on my shadow on ranked solo arenas.

Edited October 27, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[Technohic]

Scrapper is dead spec. Yes, conc operative (with much more faster and smoother animations), when you bind some hotkeys combos with macros still deadly in right hands versus bads, but scrapper... just trash.

 

My scrapper 89 valor sitting on shelf. I try play him arenas.. no thanks. I play my guardian, sentinel, shadow, vanguard, gunslinger and lowbies commando and sage...

 

I dunno why you say shadow not for ranked - I have excellent win/lose ration on my shadow on ranked solo arenas.

 

Sorry. Should have specified team ranked, where teams know to not let their teammate eat the 1v1 opener of a sin. Solo ranked is still just pugs with matchmaking and a number.

[NogueiraA]

Scrapper is dead spec. Yes, conc operative (with much more faster and smoother animations), when you bind some hotkeys combos with macros still deadly in right hands versus bads, but scrapper... just trash.

 

My scrapper 89 valor sitting on shelf. I try play him arenas.. no thanks. I play my guardian, sentinel, shadow, vanguard, gunslinger and lowbies commando and sage...

 

I dunno why you say shadow not for ranked - I have excellent win/lose ration on my shadow on ranked solo arenas.

 

So you're saying that the difference between animations makes your Scrapper a crap spec, but your Concealment OP the mirror, a deadly spec?

What's the difference?

[JackNader]

Concealment is better than scrapper imo. Animations are smoother, and the procs are easier to see on the bar. Edited October 27, 2013 by JackNader

[Technohic]

Concealment is better than scrapper imo. Animations are smoother, and the procs are easier to see on the bar.

 

This actually is a perception problem. I admit the graphics of the scrapper do make it appear awkward, but I don't think it is really different outside of my own imagination.