tanking basics

[SithLordJakin]

My main is a tank, The focus should be on the Champs and Elites. The point of the DPS are to take out the small mobs. The Tank keeps the focus on the Bigger bosses who will go for the healer. Then when all the mobs are taken care of ( or taken care of that round) the DPS should help the Tank drain the bosses. If are constantly running around hitting everyone, the tank is doing no damage to anything. You have your idea's of a tank all wrong.

[Foambreaker]

Here is another question for you tanks: How often do you start a pull before important cooldowns (like Saber Reflect, AoE Taunt, etc.) are ready, because you can just sense the impatience of the dps and dont want them to pull first.

 

I go pretty quick to start and I try to plan my cooldowns, but I don't modify my tanking style for dps.

 

If a dps pulls:

1) I hope like hell the healer lets them die

2) I ask them not to do that

3) No luck, I just leave, put that DPS on ignore and reQ

 

Really, why F around with a bad group when we have near instant Qs?

 

Especially on the pub side because there are tons of healers; not so much empire side (I tank both, Troop/Assas)

[branmakmuffin]

Out of curiosity, what content are you tanking currently?

I only do landscape content, so Heroics is it for me. I don't have to tank Flashpoints, etc.,to know that it's typical for many people to claim that their current activity of choice is different or more difficult or whatever compared to similar "whatever kinds of activities we are talking about."

 

The fundamental mechanics of aggro are no different in TOR than they are in DDO, LotRO and EQ2. But read those forums and you'll find people claiming that their game of choice is somehow fundamentally different or inherently more difficult. It's common for people to overplay the difficulty of what they are currently doing because failure is more easily excused and achievements become towering victories ("Yeah, you think tanking DDO is hard. You should try tanking TOR. You have to be a tank's tank in TOR").

 

So in short, my comment is more about human nature than about tanking. But if you are one of those who thinks TOR is terribly more challenging than other MMOs, don't let me burst your bubble.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Here is another question for you tanks: How often do you start a pull before important cooldowns (like Saber Reflect, AoE Taunt, etc.) are ready, because you can just sense the impatience of the dps and dont want them to pull first.

 

If its trash mobs and I won't need the CDs then I don't wait even if the DPS is not impatient. I won't start a boss fight without all my CDs though. I very rarely use my AoE Taunt though, that should be saved in case things go wrong.

 

My main is a tank, The focus should be on the Champs and Elites. The point of the DPS are to take out the small mobs. The Tank keeps the focus on the Bigger bosses who will go for the healer. Then when all the mobs are taken care of ( or taken care of that round) the DPS should help the Tank drain the bosses. If are constantly running around hitting everyone, the tank is doing no damage to anything. You have your idea's of a tank all wrong.

 

I would agree with this, DPS should burn down the weakest mobs first because if they take aggro away it won't matter as the mobs die fast. Then switch to the Champions and Elites, that has the added benefit of giving the tank time to build extra aggro so its less likely full out dps will take the aggro.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Syas]

I only do landscape content, so Heroics is it for me. I don't have to tank Flashpoints, etc.,to know that it's typical for many people to claim that their current activity of choice is different or more difficult or whatever compared to similar "whatever kinds of activities we are talking about."

 

The fundamental mechanics of aggro are no different in TOR than they are in DDO, LotRO and EQ2. But read those forums and you'll find people claiming that their game of choice is somehow fundamentally different or inherently more difficult. It's common for people to overplay the difficulty of what they are currently doing because failure is more easily excused and achievements become towering victories ("Yeah, you think tanking DDO is hard. You should try tanking TOR. You have to be a tank's tank in TOR").

 

So in short, my comment is more about human nature than about tanking. But if you are one of those who thinks TOR is terribly more challenging than other MMOs, don't let me burst your bubble.

 

Group mechanics and responsibilities have a fundamental role difference though; namely the responsibility for DPS to pick up and dirt nap normals and work up the chain. This is vastly different than just a "Burn adds phase" as it is mindset your DPS need to be in with every pull. I can only speak to EQ2 of the list you provided, but EQ2 does not work on a "Widespread 5+ bodies normal - elite with a mid grade" pull mechanic.

 

Now don't mistake me, I am not saying that a Tank should not be managing aggro on as much of the pull as they can, and I certainly NOT defending Tanks who don't bother with anything but the strongest mob. I am saying that if you are DPS, (as a rule of thumb) Normals are your responsibility in the pull, and burning down Strongs before Elites is the way you roll.

 

Edit: Also, not more challenging than EQ2, way more challenging than post Wrath WoW though. I am more arguing that there is a slightly different mindset here, not that it is harder than any other MMO Tanking out there. In SWTOR, an efficient group is one who works the order from the respective start points.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Syas

[Uvirith]

Here is another question for you tanks: How often do you start a pull before important cooldowns (like Saber Reflect, AoE Taunt, etc.) are ready, because you can just sense the impatience of the dps and dont want them to pull first.

 

I dont need my cooldowns for trash, only for bosses. The only limit to me is the ressouce of my healer. I chainpull, hitting the next pack before the last is dead most of the time.

[DonkeyGobbler]

When you say "tanking" I assume you mean using specific threat-generating skills like taunt or whacking a bad guy while in threat stance. I could be wrong, certainly, but I wouldn't think just being in threat stance alone generates threat without the tank doing something else (like, e.g., whacking a bad guy).

 

Absolutely, I wasn't clear in my wording.

[Galandro]

I dont need my cooldowns for trash, only for bosses. The only limit to me is the ressouce of my healer. I chainpull, hitting the next pack before the last is dead most of the time.

 

As a healer I call shenanigans on that. That gogogo nonsense may have flown a couple weeks ago when everyone outgeared the content, but not now when people are running the current Hard Modes for gear and not just the comms at the end.

 

I very much enjoy SWTOR's flashpoints. At appropriate levels they are nicely challenging without being too much to handle. They are not like WOW's brain dead dungeons. Tanks can't just scoop everything up and watch while everything gets AOE'ed down (at least not at the moment). I find the trash packs can chew up even geared tanks. A tank who doesn't use cooldowns on the dog packs in Mandalorian Raiders will probably die. A little bit of cc on the droids before the first Athiss boss turns that pull from a nightmare into routine. And dps who start by killing normals before working their way up to the strongs and elites make my healer happier than a bantha on the beach.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Galandro

[Never_Hesitate]

You guys forgot a couple of other points.

 

11. Don't run any group content if you aren't stat-geared correctly. If you do, you might find yourself on everyone's Ignore lists in no time. In other words, if you are a Guardian Tank, you should be Endurance over Strength. NOT Strength over Endurance. NOT Willpower and Cunning(WHY?!), NOT Aim and Strength. Get the idea? Research your class stats before you start gearing your toons.

 

Don't underestimate the second stats (defense, absorb, shield) they are more important than strength, aim, willpower and depending on how high your ratings are, they're more important than endurance

 

 

12. Pick the correct tree and fill accordingly. If you are trying to be a tank, trust me, you might want to stick to that tree on the left. The middle one is usually DPS oriented and the right one is for PVP.

 

Sometimes there are hybrids cappable of doing a just as fine job (juggernaut pre 2.0)

And about the right tree, being the pvp tree, that's simply not true.

The right tree is shared between the two advanced classes

 

If you're not sure about something, ask in game, here on the forums and/or on Google. It doesn't hurt to ask, you know.....

 

I want to encurage any new tanks/players to do so.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[DonkeyGobbler]

As a healer I call shenanigans on that. That gogogo nonsense may have flown a couple weeks ago when everyone outgeared the content, but not now when people are running the current Hard Modes for gear and not just the comms at the end.

 

I very much enjoy SWTOR's flashpoints. At appropriate levels they are nicely challenging without being too much to handle. They are not like WOW's brain dead dungeons. Tanks can't just scoop everything up and watch while everything gets AOE'ed down (at least not at the moment). I find the trash packs can chew up even geared tanks. A tank who doesn't use cooldowns on the dog packs in Mandalorian Raiders will probably die. A little bit of cc on the droids before the first Athiss boss turns that pull from a nightmare into routine. And dps who start by killing normals before working their way up to the strongs and elites make my healer happier than a bantha on the beach.

 

Agreed. I've had several tanks recently (when I've been healing) who would run from pack to pack, not allowing their health to recharge so he starts a new fight at, say, 80% health when I still have a depleted resource pool.

[Uvirith]

As a healer I call shenanigans on that. That gogogo nonsense may have flown a couple weeks ago when everyone outgeared the content, but not now when people are running the current Hard Modes for gear and not just the comms at the end.

 

Why would I not chainpull if my healer has good ressources and I myself have 100% HP?

Trust me, I tank since 13 years, I know what I´m doing

[Never_Hesitate]

Why would I not chainpull if my healer has good ressources and I myself have 100% HP?

Trust me, I tank since 13 years, I know what I´m doing

 

It's you that takes a dirt nap not me.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[Uvirith]

Agreed. I've had several tanks recently (when I've been healing) who would run from pack to pack, not allowing their health to recharge so he starts a new fight at, say, 80% health when I still have a depleted resource pool.

You agreed on what? On the response to my post? As I said, the bottleneck of pulling is always the healers ressource. I would never pull if the healers ressource is depleted. But as long as this doesnt happen, I dont stop pulling. My healers even shout at me in TS if I stop pulling because of chatting

Edited April 23, 2013 by Uvirith

[Uvirith]

It's you that takes a dirt nap not me.

did you even read my post?

 

/edit

Oh, and why does this Forum not summarize Postings made one after another? Where are we, 2005 ?

Edited April 23, 2013 by Uvirith

[danielearley]

lol @ rules made to support dps bads

 

if dps didn't pull, which screws the whole threat model for that pull, the other half of this would not be an issue

 

the fact is tanking in this game is brain dead easy, what makes it hard is terribad dps

 

This one statement shows you do not understand Threat!!!!

[Never_Hesitate]

did you even read my post?

 

/edit

Oh, and why does this Forum not summarize Postings made one after another? Where are we, 2005 ?

 

Yes, I did.

 

The amount you can get healed is not only regulated by your healers energy pool, but by his heal output as well and if you overestimate your healer a chainpull can soon end in you taking a dirt nap

Edited April 23, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[Uvirith]

Yes, I did.

 

The amount you can get healed is not only regulated by your healers energy pool, but by his heal output as well and if you overestimate your healer a chainpull can soon end in you taking a dirt nap

I dont overestimate my healer. I know exactly what he can pull off. And if I miscalculate, thats the time I burn through my cooldowns.

[Never_Hesitate]

I dont overestimate my healer. I know exactly what he can pull off. And if I miscalculate, thats the time I burn through my cooldowns.

 

that only applies when you always run with your healer.

[Cidanel]

Easily the best way to learn tanking basics is not to read a forum or do a google search, but find a handful of people who will actually help you learn. My guild picked up a tank that was fresh to all MMOs and got all the way to 50 essentially soloing. Our main tank, one of our experienced DPS and I (healer) took him in easier FPs letting him tank. Our main tank jumped in to help/correct the new guy when needed. Now that new guy is always the #2 tank for nightmare mode OPs for us. It just took a few hours of instruction/correcting in game. If you are new (even if you don't have a guild), tell people in general chat that you are new and want a few people to help you learn how to tank (or how to play any role for that matter). People like me nearly always step in to help people who want to learn get better.

 

The one thing that does annoy me about tanks is when they automatically guard me. If DPS does something stupid, I can dodge/defense screen, stun the mob and give either DPS or the tank a good 10 seconds before I even begin to take damage. If they cannot correct by then, the group has bigger problems.

[DonkeyGobbler]

The one thing that does annoy me about tanks is when they automatically guard me. If DPS does something stupid, I can dodge/defense screen, stun the mob and give either DPS or the tank a good 10 seconds before I even begin to take damage. If they cannot correct by then, the group has bigger problems.

 

I don't doubt that, and agree completely, but many healers scream out to be guarded in chat

 

Went into a lvl 50 HM the other day playing DPS. Both me and the other DPS were level 55. The tank and healer were level 50. Guess who got guarded? The healer. Meanwhile, the other DPS and I took turns in tanking...

[lordspyder]

Went into a lvl 50 HM the other day playing DPS. Both me and the other DPS were level 55. The tank and healer were level 50. Guess who got guarded? The healer. Meanwhile, the other DPS and I took turns in tanking...

 

So, what you're saying is that you are a terribad DPS who has no idea how to manage agro? If I was that tank, your *** would be on ignore and kicked from my group after the second pull.

DPS need to know how to manage agro, FP's are not about just nuking down the Mobs, but working as a coherent team. If you are unable to do that, then I want nothing to do with you, go ruin some one else's FP.

[Never_Hesitate]

I don't doubt that, and agree completely, but many healers scream out to be guarded in chat

 

I have scared of a whole bunch of healers by not giving them guard and explaining to them, why I give it to a dps.

Some just don't want to get it and leave.

But I always think in such a situation: "Yay another terribad healer gone"

[ninjonxb]

I have scared of a whole bunch of healers by not giving them guard and explaining to them, why I give it to a dps.

Some just don't want to get it and leave.

But I always think in such a situation: "Yay another terribad healer gone"

 

When i first get into a Flashpoint i do generally give guard to a healer. But I watch if anyone pulls agro off me multiple times and if so I guard them.

[MillionsKNives]

So, what you're saying is that you are a terribad DPS who has no idea how to manage agro? If I was that tank, your *** would be on ignore and kicked from my group after the second pull.

DPS need to know how to manage agro, FP's are not about just nuking down the Mobs, but working as a coherent team. If you are unable to do that, then I want nothing to do with you, go ruin some one else's FP.

 

The tanks have a method of managing their aggro for them, while letting things die just as fast. It's called guard.

 

They also have taunts. If the tank is losing aggro on the more important mobs and it's not because the DPS is killing out of order or beating on something the Tank isn't attacking, then it's the tank's fault if the DPS ends up tanking it most of the fight.

[MillionsKNives]

I don't doubt that, and agree completely, but many healers scream out to be guarded in chat

 

Went into a lvl 50 HM the other day playing DPS. Both me and the other DPS were level 55. The tank and healer were level 50. Guess who got guarded? The healer. Meanwhile, the other DPS and I took turns in tanking...

 

Two of my guildmates were going through a HM FP, one tank and one DPS. The DPS is one of the best in our guild so naturally the tank guards him. The healer threw a fit about this and left shortly after. So they pulled out a healing companion and did just fine. Some people are just crazy.

 

When i first get into a Flashpoint i do generally give guard to a healer. But I watch if anyone pulls agro off me multiple times and if so I guard them.

 

I personally don't usually guard other players unless they pull off of me a few times, or if I'm in a more progression op. It gives me an idea of how well I'm managing my threat, and gives me practice with pulling them back. Only in very rare circumstances will I ever bother to guard a healer. I've never received any complaints (I haven't really come across any crazy healers that demand guard) and can keep an otherwise boring run slightly more interesting.

Edited April 23, 2013 by MillionsKNives