Keybinders vs Clickers

[NorthFacedMan]

Keybinder, it's faster and you can chain attacks together. It can be the difference by winning a duel, or getting away from a group of people. Edited September 24, 2013 by NorthFacedMan

[WoLFpwr]

I think the best way is to roll assassin bind maul on all keys then you can just...roll your face on the keyboard to win !

[cycao]

I think the best way is to roll assassin bind maul on all keys then you can just...roll your face on the keyboard to win !

 

It's funny when people think this is viable.

[BarronWasteland]

Clicker.

 

But then, I play long-range "turret" classes (Merc/Mando, Snipinger, and currently levelling a Lightning-Sorc) almost exclusively, and that plus GCD makes them quite clicker-friendly.

 

However, I can see how this would put you waaaaaay behind with a mobile melée/brawl-range class. (just as well that that playstyle just doesn't do it for me, never has.)

 

Oh, total LOL-moment:

 

If you get a solo-kill in a WZ, then make sure to /say something to the effect of "You just got your azz solo'ed by a clicker!" The nerd-kiddie rage and tears --especially, quelle surprise, from smash-morons-- are beyond sublime.

 

One thing, though: If you use a Razer Naga or similar, then are you really a key-binder, or really a clicker just with more buttons under your mouse-hand?

 

I use the Belkin N52TE. I love it. I hear what you are saying in that you really are not a "clicker" in the traditional sense.

[Seengularity]

I think the best way is to roll assassin bind maul on all keys then you can just...roll your face on the keyboard to win !

It's funny when people think this is viable.

 

He must be trolling. This can't... be.

[Xakthul]

I can be a viable player with clicks. It's just that in PvP I'm usually the firt to die 'cause I have idiots insisting that I try to use a PS smashmonkey Marauder as a tank. FTW.

[Cessna_X]

Keybinds! This is a bit old (lol ok, really old. Pre-2.0 ); I've made adjustments/improvements since, but for the most part this is what I use:

http://i50.tinypic.com/xekow.png

 

SWTOR-edition Naga ftw! Best mouse ever!

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/3938/swtormousehardwaremacro.png

 

In the future, I'd love to try out a gamepad e.g. the Orbweaver. And I know the guy with the steering wheel was just kidding, but I actually think using footpedals for modifiers could work really well! I have small hands, so stretching for key combinations is kinda hard. And tbh, I think any setup that reduces hand movement/reaching would benefit anyone, because it's just that much faster.

 

I noticed a huge difference when I got my Naga over my old five-button Microsoft mouse, because I now have keybinds for virtually everything, and don't have to reach over to my 6-= keys anymore. I couldn't possibly imagine going back.

 

But my boyfriend uses his laptop's trackpad. That's right - no mouse! I think it's absolutely insane, but you wouldn't be able to tell at all from the way he plays. He does use keybinds, tho. And I'm still trying to convince him to try a Naga. But regardless, I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to interface. If you know what you're doing, and get comfortable with it, then I mean... whatever floats your boat. The difference is probably negligible in most situations. I'd take a PUG of clickers with a brain over a bunch of derptards with keybinds any day, you know?

 

But still, if all else is equal, then I think a "gamer" that clicks is analogous to a "driver" with an automatic (trying to keep the Fast & Furious theme going! ^_^).

 

Oh, btw, that pic with the Force Sweeps was hilarious! XD

Edited September 24, 2013 by Cessna_X

[AlrikFassbauer]

If you get a solo-kill in a WZ, then make sure to /say something to the effect of "You just got your azz solo'ed by a clicker!" The nerd-kiddie rage and tears --especially, quelle surprise, from smash-morons-- are beyond sublime.

 

 

Great idea !

[Asaxor]

You only need one keybind : "P". It opens a list and you can conveniently scroll through your abilities and choose the one you want to execute at that time. Just rebind it to a more convenient key, say to "1", and you're set.

[midianlord]

[...]

 

The difference is probably negligible in most situations. I'd take a PUG of clickers with a brain over a bunch of derptards with keybinds any day, you know?

 

But still, if all else is equal, then I think a "gamer" that clicks is analogous to a "driver" with an automatic (trying to keep the Fast & Furious theme going! ^_^).

 

Oh, btw, that pic with the Force Sweeps was hilarious! XD

 

^^That,^^ re: the PuG group that's competent. How one interfaces with one's UI =/= good or bad player.

 

Perhaps ironically, I absolutely refuse to drive an automatic-gearbox vehicle IRL if I have any choice in the matter --Can't bloody well stand them, and lifelong petrolhead + HGV driver, so I know what I'm doing at the wheel, and don't need it done for me

Edited September 25, 2013 by midianlord

[snaplemouton]

^^That,^^ re: the PuG group that's competent. How one interfaces with one's UI =/= good or bad player.

I look at it this way:

Who does the best between theses 2 players?

Player 2 does. Okay then. Player 2 is a clicker?

Yes.

Player 2 can improve.

Player 1 is a clicker?

No.

Player 1 can improve.

 

Player 1 can improve by simply getting better.

Player 2 can improve by learning how to use keybind effectively.

 

No matter how people see it, using keybinds IS BETTER. There is tons of reasons why, it was stated over and over again and the only reason people are giving about why clicking is fine is that a clicker can be better then a keybinder.

 

Now if we see it this way instead:

Player 1 is alone. Is he doing good?

Yes.

Is he a clicker?

Yes

Can he improve?

Yes.

How?

By learning how to use keybind to improve it's effectiveness and all the other various reasons why keybinding is better then clicking.

[midianlord]

I look at it this way:

Who does the best between theses 2 players?

Player 2 does. Okay then. Player 2 is a clicker?

Yes.

Player 2 can improve.

Player 1 is a clicker?

No.

Player 1 can improve.

 

Player 1 can improve by simply getting better.

Player 2 can improve by learning how to use keybind effectively.

 

No matter how people see it, using keybinds IS BETTER. There is tons of reasons why, it was stated over and over again and the only reason people are giving about why clicking is fine is that a clicker can be better then a keybinder.

 

Now if we see it this way instead:

Player 1 is alone. Is he doing good?

Yes.

Is he a clicker?

Yes

Can he improve?

Yes.

How?

By learning how to use keybind to improve it's effectiveness and all the other various reasons why keybinding is better then clicking.

 

All this is saying is, basically:

 

Key-binding IS BETTER!!!111! because you say so. (I was kind enough to leave the caps in the implied quote, so don't look at me like that :/)

 

I want numbers. I want rigourously and repeatedly tested --do remember the rules pertaining to sample-size and consistency of conditions, please!-- numbers that show this conclusively.

 

Key-binding is better, for some. For others, not so. In some situations, it is better, in others it makes little to no difference if the player behind the avatar is even halfway-competent. (Which, it pains me to say, most SW: tOR players aren't even close to. Or maybe they're just all drunk and/or sleep-deprived?)

 

That's the only axiomatic truth one can make about this, no matter how long you keep your caps-lock key on (maybe you should bind that to something, as well?).

[snaplemouton]

All this is saying is, basically:

 

Key-binding IS BETTER!!!111! because you say so. (I was kind enough to leave the caps in the implied quote, so don't look at me like that :/)

 

I want numbers. I want rigourously and repeatedly tested --do remember the rules pertaining to sample-size and consistency of conditions, please!-- numbers that show this conclusively.

 

Key-binding is better, for some. For others, not so. In some situations, it is better, in others it makes little to no difference if the player behind the avatar is even halfway-competent. (Which, it pains me to say, most SW: tOR players aren't even close to. Or maybe they're just all drunk and/or sleep-deprived?)

 

That's the only axiomatic truth one can make about this, no matter how long you keep your caps-lock key on (maybe you should bind that to something, as well?).

It was tested more then enough. If you want numbers, testimonies, reasons, facts, etc. Check on google, there is so many thread on every game forums about it.

 

Obviously if you go from being used to play with clicking to your first time keybinding you will loose in effectiveness. But once you got the hang of keybinds, you will be better.

 

I havn't seen a single clicker say he was a keybinder before and now he does better by clicking

[Luckeyduckey]

Keybinding doesn't make you good. Ask 90% of every pug. I keybind 1-= and Shift 1-=, F1-F4, B, X, J. I keyboard turn and mouse turn. Does that make me bad? No, but it does mean I can improve if I use mouse turning and more left sided keys. Am I going to? No, because that means I have to endure learning that, where I will be terrible until I get used to it. If I did this, then this game would be too EZ.

[cashogy_reborn]

Keybinding doesn't make you good. Ask 90% of every pug. I keybind 1-= and Shift 1-=, F1-F4, B, X, J. I keyboard turn and mouse turn. Does that make me bad? No, but it does mean I can improve if I use mouse turning and more left sided keys. Am I going to? No, because that means I have to endure learning that, where I will be terrible until I get used to it. If I did this, then this game would be too EZ.

 

Thats some sound logic if Ive ever seen it

[Lovethebeard]

I'm a clicker and a vigilance guardian. As you can tell from the screens below, I tried using keybinds with 2 abilities but they just don't work for me.

 

For me clicking works like a charm, i have no problem putting out high damage in warzones and my guild finds me highly viable for ranked WZs

 

here are the screen shots of 4 different Voidstars.

 

http://imgur.com/nOsxGpc

http://imgur.com/x6UNvfz

http://imgur.com/2X6J4rs

http://imgur.com/2D9VYWL

[snaplemouton]

I'm a clicker and a vigilance guardian. As you can tell from the screens below, I tried using keybinds with 2 abilities but they just don't work for me.

 

For me clicking works like a charm, i have no problem putting out high damage in warzones and my guild finds me highly viable for ranked WZs

 

here are the screen shots of 4 different Voidstars.

 

http://imgur.com/nOsxGpc

http://imgur.com/x6UNvfz

http://imgur.com/2X6J4rs

http://imgur.com/2D9VYWL

I raise my hat to you for playing vigilance.

 

Clicking doesn't mean bad. But keybinding will still always allow for a higher skill cap.

Now, I said skill cap. Not skills.

If skill was a number,

The maximum you could achieved as a clicker would be 1000. The maximum you could achieved as a keybinder is 1000 + x (x because it's pretty hard to tell how much better you can perform)

While as a clicker you can have a skill of 890.

A keybinder can be 500 in skill. You will win even if you are a clicker.

But while the best clicker ever will reach 1000.

The best keybinder ever will reach *higher then 1000. Because he isn't limited by clicking.

One can always improve it's skills. You just have to get used to keybinding and you'll see. I don't know anyone who regret switching to keybinding after getting the hang of it.

 

Here's a few things that make keybinding better:

- Mouse turning instead of keyboard

- Possibility to use multiple spells at the same time (Out of global spells)

- Faster and more convenient to place an AoE on the ground

- Even if you are very good at clicking, it can take more then a global cooldown to reach an ability on your bar.

There is a tons of other reasons and they were mentionned over and over again everywhere.

[Lovethebeard]

I raise my hat to you for playing vigilance.

 

Clicking doesn't mean bad. But keybinding will still always allow for a higher skill cap.

Now, I said skill cap. Not skills.

If skill was a number,

The maximum you could achieved as a clicker would be 1000. The maximum you could achieved as a keybinder is 1000 + x (x because it's pretty hard to tell how much better you can perform)

While as a clicker you can have a skill of 890.

A keybinder can be 500 in skill. You will win even if you are a clicker.

But while the best clicker ever will reach 1000.

The best keybinder ever will reach *higher then 1000. Because he isn't limited by clicking.

One can always improve it's skills. You just have to get used to keybinding and you'll see. I don't know anyone who regret switching to keybinding after getting the hang of it.

 

Here's a few things that make keybinding better:

- Mouse turning instead of keyboard

- Possibility to use multiple spells at the same time (Out of global spells)

- Faster and more convenient to place an AoE on the ground

- Even if you are very good at clicking, it can take more then a global cooldown to reach an ability on your bar.

There is a tons of other reasons and they were mentionned over and over again everywhere.

 

I appreciate this post. Everything you wrote out is pretty much correct. Ive tried keybinding before and its just not for me unfortunatly. Keybinding is perfect for PvP I get that, and I understand in some circumstances that clickers will be one step behind keybinders. All I want to change is the hate clickers receive from keybinders. Both are viable, why cant we just leave it at that?

[rlamela]

Man I really hate those noobs in flashpoints who click their converstaion choices. I mean gosh it takes so much longer then using the keybinds. Stop being a baddie and use your keybinds to choose your conversation choices. Or atleast tell me when I load in that you are a clciker so I can bounce. Thanks

 

The Bastion / Jedi Covenant

Rellik / Syck'syyde

Jenna'syyde / Rázakel

[PloGreen]

The fact people try and debate that clicking is somehow just as quick or efficient as keybinding speaks volumes about those players. People who play this game well, at a competitive level (not that there are many of them left) - they all keybind. It should not be difficult to grasp as to why this is the case, but yet it seems some people are so set in their ways that they will never actually improve, which is another reason why there are only a small number of decent players in this aspect of the game.

 

I don't "hate" clickers, I just find the "im a good player and I click I can kill people" the only actual statement to support why people think it is just as good as keybinding, where as people who keybind have explained in great detail why it is advantageous to keybind. Good luck kiting on a sage using a mouse pointer, you will really struggle with the class if you think its "clicker friendly" - if you want to play that class proficiently you need to keybind, because turreting is only one aspect - its actually a mobile class, you should be using abilities as you think of them on the move when your pressured, you will need to slow and kite, and you often have to turn to face your target to cast a snare. You really cannot do that if you rely on a mouse pointer to click your abilities, every second counts. That is just one example.

 

So its fine if you wish to click but you will hit a skill ceiling and never get beyond that really. The only people that you will do well against are other clickers. Most proficient players who keybind will run rings around you I'm afraid. Not doing this to belittle clickers just trying to get through to people that is one of the things people who play pvp in games in mmos at a competitive level do, it's very basic stuff. The advice is free, and you are welcome to continue in whatever fashion you wish to play the game, and you can choose whether or not you wish to improve or not.

[AlrikFassbauer]

All this is saying is, basically:

 

Key-binding IS BETTER!!!111! because you say so.

 

Yes. The "argumentation" starts with a wrong premise in the first place : "keybinding is better than clicking", and that, although any scientific approach would be to deal both in an neutral way in the beginning.

 

where I will be terrible until I get used to it.

 

That's an interesting point.

 

One is an terrible player until the keybinds are fully memorized and trained.

 

I see this in my case : Having keybound most abilities, I'm still searching for them.

And, when seconds or even fractions of seconds matter, when I've found the key, I might be too late.

 

That's an huge disadvantage over writing lots of text : In the favourite wordprocessor, time isn't that important.

 

(For wordprocessing, I'm altrady "gotten used to it", so it doesn't matter to me anymore.

It's always the Learning Process which slows things down.)

Edited September 26, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[PloGreen]

Yes. The "argumentation" starts with a wrong premise in the first place : "keybinding is better than clicking", and that, although any scientific approach would be to deal both in an neutral way in the beginning.

 

 

 

That's an interesting point.

 

One is an terrible player until the keybinds are fully memorized and trained.

 

I see this in my case : Having keybound most abilities, I'm still searching for them.

And, when seconds or even fractions of seconds matter, when I've found the key, I might be too late.

 

That's an huge disadvantage over writing lots of text : In the favourite wordprocessor, time isn't that important.

 

(For wordprocessing, I'm altrady "gotten used to it", so it doesn't matter to me anymore.

It's always the Learning Process which slows things down.)

 

It comes with repetition - muscle memory. Much like a musical instrument, people will struggle with chords and scales at first, but sooner or later it will click (sorry for the pun) into place.

 

It's not something that happens overnight for most people. This is why its a good idea to bind as you level, by the time you hit 55 you know where everything is by muscle memory.

[AlrikFassbauer]

It comes with repetition - muscle memory. Much like a musical instrument, people will struggle with chords and scales at first, but sooner or later it will click (sorry for the pun) into place.

 

It's not something that happens overnight for most people. This is why its a good idea to bind as you level, by the time you hit 55 you know where everything is by muscle memory.

 

I agree to that.

 

What you call the "muscle memory" enabled the Cambodians to reconstruct their "classical dances" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_classical_dance

Since almost all dancers who knew how to dance this were killed by the "Red Khmers", there were only a few of the dancers alive, and almost all knowledge was lost. "Muscle memory" and the little knowledge that remained enabled them to reconstruct these dances.

Edited September 26, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Hyara]

I'm a clicker and mouse binder. I use to play PVP with my little daugther siting on my legs. So I use the left hand to hold her And the rigth hand to move the Mouse (5 buttons).

 

Still, I manage to become unbeatable or broke the line of 1M Healing for example in a lot of wzs (not all, of course).

 

Ah. Some times is my 8 years olf daugther who plays, but she is a mix: keybinder, mouse clicker and backpedaler..

 

*^_^*

Edited September 26, 2013 by Hyara
My iPhone is trolling me.

[mattycutts]

It was tested more then enough. If you want numbers, testimonies, reasons, facts, etc. Check on google, there is so many thread on every game forums about it.

 

Obviously if you go from being used to play with clicking to your first time keybinding you will loose in effectiveness. But once you got the hang of keybinds, you will be better.

 

I havn't seen a single clicker say he was a keybinder before and now he does better by clicking

 

im one of them. i tried key binding didnt work for me, i went back to clicking and do far better.

 

cant say its that simple key binding is better. depends on the circumstances. For me its a injury and i suffer at times with memory problems so key binding dont work for me and i do aweful because at times i cant remember what key bindings i have. i click, i do better. and u cant tell me im wrong coz i cant actually do better as a key binder due to my health. im sure u are right in alot of cases but its not across board it depends on each person circumstances.