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Problems with advanced prototype pvp

Feitros

By Feitros
in Vanguard / Powertech

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Brunner_Venda

Brunner_Venda

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Dudes, playing AP is making me depressed. The TTK is so, so, so ridiculous. I'm convinced even Madness Sorcs can kill targets faster. I think I'd recommend playing Pyro if you run at over 20 FPS in WZs (lately I've been between 6-13 in most, so...yeah.) Even nerfed its still scarier than AP, which needs serious help offensively.

 

The key to AP is PFT. You absolutely must pull it off every nine seconds to post any kind of damage and kill people. If you aren't setting up PFT and using it like clockwork, you'll hate it.

 

Problem is that it's a melee range three second cast, and everyone who gets hit by it just stuns, CC's, pushes, pulls, or plain walks out of it.

 

The people who love the spec are either insanely good at pulling off PFT, or play really bad people in PUG matches. Good players don't sit and take three ticks of it.

 

Personally? I think It's situational. AP owns on VoidStar defense. Lots of targets close to the door. I can kill two or three at a time when they crowd trying to plant. Elsewhere? Not so much.

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Aetrus

Aetrus

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Personally? I think It's situational. AP owns on VoidStar defense. Lots of targets close to the door. I can kill two or three at a time when they crowd trying to plant. Elsewhere? Not so much.

Nah, I think maybe that's in those pug matches you're describing. I haven't done ranked with it in 2.0, but I do most matches against Pub premades who know how to play decently. Only 1-2 people are ever near the door, and its usually a tank. Everyone else spreads out past the pylons and DPS to wipe defenders before they even try capping. I think Novare is probably best for AP though for the same reasons you mentioned.

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foxmob

foxmob

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Dudes, playing AP is making me depressed. The TTK is so, so, so ridiculous. I'm convinced even Madness Sorcs can kill targets faster. I think I'd recommend playing Pyro if you run at over 20 FPS in WZs (lately I've been between 6-13 in most, so...yeah.) Even nerfed its still scarier than AP, which needs serious help offensively.

I only run regs and kickball rwz with my AP, and I have a VG for more serious competition. TTK is kinda weird. The thing is, there's really no burst whatsoever, so I can't punch through anyone getting healed. 1v1 though...there isn't another dps or tank AC I don't normally kill. my survivability is so good though, with and (laughably) even w/o, rebounder that I'm going to kill anyone who isn't getting heals or escaping. my utility is very good. alas, burst is king. you cannot waste a dps spot on someone who can't blast someone. my best burst actually comes from the railshot rotation. PFT is something of a red herring....

 

The key to AP is PFT. You absolutely must pull it off every nine seconds to post any kind of damage and kill people. If you aren't setting up PFT and using it like clockwork, you'll hate it.

negative. it's way too easy to interrupt. and trying to catch multiple ppl in it is actually inefficient. I've had markedly better success with this priority:

  • keep RB on the target at all times
  • RP on cd
  • rail on cd (might need to use filler for one or two gcds for RP first)
  • immolate
  • PFT
  • explosive dart when ranged (and not willing to grapple/fill resolve)

 

PFT is a finisher, pref with missiles. I'll use it whenever possible if the initial barrage is on cd, but it's very much not a priority. I will try to CC the target before uncorking it...not so much because I'm afraid of missing him but because there's this ridiculous animation lag while activating hydrolic override and explosive fuel.

 

My Complaints About the Spec Tree

Once again, there is no appreciable synergy between the rail roto, the PFT roto, and the enhanced shoulder cannon. Flame Barrage is an utterly stupid talent for a tree that already runs a HIGH ENERGY CYLINDER. What Flame Barrage should do is reset RP. Say it with me now: Flame barrage should reset RP. Now, you have complete control over a guaranteed crit on rail while not utterly wasting your hardest hitting abil (RP) while you wait for rail to come off cd.

 

Need a passive alacrity buff or, better yet, an alacrity proc in order to make PFT viable....

 

Also need more synergy between PFT and the RP-RS rotos....

 

Here's a wild and crazy idea, just as the medic tree for Mercs rewards a massive alacrity buff after a critical heal, give AP a big alacrity buff after a critical hit. How about...say...a crit hit with RAIL SHOT. OMGZ! LOOK! It's synergy!

 

edit: I sure hope they ask about Tactics/AP in one of these Powertech/Vanguard questions for devs.

 

and why is it that every VG/PT spec calls for spamming FB/IP? I mean...srsly? If you're going to have a 1-button filler, can't we use a different filler for different specs so it doesn't feel like I'm playing the same spec all the time? You don't see a pyro Merc spamming tracer or vice versa. :rolleyes:

Edited by foxmob
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obnoxioussage

obnoxioussage

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i feel like an easy solution that would go a long way towards balancing AP with other specs would simply be to make PTF grant immunity to cc while you channel it. It would be a substantial buff to be sure but I feel like it wouldn't be any more overpowered than sniper cc immunity considering its only a 3 second channel. Maybe to balance it out you could reduce the 70% snare to 50 or 30% so people would have a little bit of a chance to get away. This would give pt dps some much needed utility and provide a reason to include one in ranked teams. What do you guys think? I'm kinda on the fence of whether or not it would be OP.
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foxmob

foxmob

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I don't think the snare should be reduced at all. there are an unruly number of snare/root breaks in 2.0. For example, VGs have hold the line on a 30s cd. that not only breaks roots/snares, but actively increases run speed. there's diversion (not the sniper thing) that breaks roots (nothing on snares). and then there's the standard CC breaker that breaks every root, snare, and stun.

 

while what you suggest will prevent stuns from interrupting and htl already prevents kb's (when it's up), I would say that half (if not more) of the primary targets who escape my canon do so simply by running out of it, which means they popped some sort of break or (not sure if this works) cleanse. Or...

 

to add insult to injury, when I want to pop htl and battle focus to go along with pulse cannon, there's a (relatively) huge animation delay on my BH (he presses buttons on his wrist). The practical effect this has is that my target is almost always 5m+ away by the time pulse cannon starts to tick. the only solution I have for this is to stun before poppping the two buffs with cannon, which is kind of a waste to have to do.

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Valzanik

Valzanik

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i feel like an easy solution that would go a long way towards balancing AP with other specs would simply be to make PTF grant immunity to cc while you channel it. It would be a substantial buff to be sure but I feel like it wouldn't be any more overpowered than sniper cc immunity considering its only a 3 second channel. Maybe to balance it out you could reduce the 70% snare to 50 or 30% so people would have a little bit of a chance to get away. This would give pt dps some much needed utility and provide a reason to include one in ranked teams. What do you guys think? I'm kinda on the fence of whether or not it would be OP.

 

I think it needs to be similar to flame engine in the tank tree to get that FT proc out in about 1.5 seconds. Adding burst and making it more viable

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Zunayson

Zunayson

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I think it needs to be similar to flame engine in the tank tree to get that FT proc out in about 1.5 seconds. Adding burst and making it more viable

 

This^^^^

 

Flame barrage should reset RP and make the next one free! Same chances to proc - with FB and Immolate

 

Power loaders should increase the damage dealt by FT, FB, and shoulder cannon by 15%.

 

Or, add 30% surge to PFT (20% damage in addition to 10% additional surge per stack? No? ._. ), and FB preferably.

 

As for synergy between the two rotations -

 

I've seen all sorts of ideas. A full PFT hits for almost as hard as a crit smash - we're not even talking about when flame thrower itself crits, then it's really a truck. Rail shot could make FT auto crit? Or give a 60% like recklessness. Each stack of PFT could give 20% additional critical hit chance to FT.

 

When I do rail shot its usually followed by flame burst spam to set up PTF. Rail shot could give two stacks of something to increase its damage (Cause let's be honest FB is pretty weak compared to a lot of other class' basic spam moves like snipe, vicious slash, etc).

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MarkXXIV

MarkXXIV

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i feel like an easy solution that would go a long way towards balancing AP with other specs would simply be to make PTF grant immunity to cc while you channel it. It would be a substantial buff to be sure but I feel like it wouldn't be any more overpowered than sniper cc immunity considering its only a 3 second channel. Maybe to balance it out you could reduce the 70% snare to 50 or 30% so people would have a little bit of a chance to get away. This would give pt dps some much needed utility and provide a reason to include one in ranked teams. What do you guys think? I'm kinda on the fence of whether or not it would be OP.

 

How would such a small change make it op? It would probably still be bad... You guys need a bigger buff than that. A tiny change isn't going to fix anything if the class is really as underpowered as everyone says. Until rage, sniper, tank, or healer get nerfed you should not worry about becoming op. To be op you need to be overpowered in comparison to the other specs in the game.

Edited by MarkXXIV
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foxmob

foxmob

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I don't disagree with the dots vs. burst, but a quick study of the two trees reveals to me that pyro is designed to be the dot spec and ap is designed for burst. PFT + rb effect + missiles > anything a pyro could ever do in 3-4 gcds (i.e., the time it takes for FT). the problem is that doesn't include setup time or take into account an opponent that isn't a target dummy. lol

 

edit: I've been having a lot more fun on my AP than Assault. it's a solid spec for regs and casual rateds. in any case, it's serviceable and more fun. I'm not sure what arena-only will do to it though. it's only sorta playable above regs atm.

Edited by foxmob
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MarkXXIV

MarkXXIV

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Don't tell anyone but AP is really good on the PTS. It's not like the devs read the PT forums so let's keep this info just between us, okay? I want to know where Hizoka is.

 

Comments like this might help powertech suck for a lot longer. I took my powertech off my signature, I don't want anyone to know I play this awful class.

Edited by MarkXXIV
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Brunner_Venda

Brunner_Venda

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Comments like this might help powertech suck for a lot longer. I took my powertech off my signature, I don't want anyone to know I play this awful class.

 

People are already complaining about AP on the PTS forums.

 

Someone figured out that we can pull 12K PFT with three stacks, which NEARLY puts the attack on par (but still inferior to) smash. The spec is getting closer to being competitive.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=673301

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af_raptura

af_raptura

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People are already complaining about AP on the PTS forums.

 

The only way I can see anyone thinking we are overpowered is if they don't know to stun during flamethrower. Also, why is it okay for marauders to have like 5 defensive cooldowns, but we are called too tanky because of the 30% damage reduction on stuns/AoE + a lower energy shield cooldown? Even if we were just as hard to kill as marauders, we still don't have nearly the same burstiness, flamethrower included.

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  • 7 months later...
ThaadJarvis

ThaadJarvis

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Yesterday I was running warzones and at the start of ancient hypergate about 4-5 of us ran to into the center "safe zone" and upon reaching the ramp 4 pubs and a vanguard met us face to face and he pulse cannoned and in about 1 sec I realized I was at 10% health and 3 ppl already died cuz we all just walked into his PC for each tick.. I assume he was full partisan ranked bla bla I'm not an extreme pvper but I figured there's only 1 spec that could make PC/FT that lethal. Just figured I'd throw in my little face melt blooper
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Kaos_KidSWTOR

Kaos_KidSWTOR

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Yesterday I was running warzones and at the start of ancient hypergate about 4-5 of us ran to into the center "safe zone" and upon reaching the ramp 4 pubs and a vanguard met us face to face and he pulse cannoned and in about 1 sec I realized I was at 10% health and 3 ppl already died cuz we all just walked into his PC for each tick.. I assume he was full partisan ranked bla bla I'm not an extreme pvper but I figured there's only 1 spec that could make PC/FT that lethal. Just figured I'd throw in my little face melt blooper

 

You must be in some pretty bad PvP gear to get down to 10% HP from Pulse Cannon... on my Concealment Op, i barely take 10% HP in damage, though that's mainly from liberal Shield Probe use.

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Sosajoshua

Sosajoshua

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The only way I can see anyone thinking we are overpowered is if they don't know to stun during flamethrower. Also, why is it okay for marauders to have like 5 defensive cooldowns, but we are called too tanky because of the 30% damage reduction on stuns/AoE + a lower energy shield cooldown? Even if we were just as hard to kill as marauders, we still don't have nearly the same burstiness, flamethrower included.

 

Because devs all play Warriors/Knights and Snipers....this has never changed, never will.

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