Problems with advanced prototype pvp

[Feitros]

Before 2.0 i used this skill tree http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::f20e4f2e12fefe2fef9ef3

With this build and combustible gas cylinder your flame burst gained nice dot , slow and and all tech +3% crit .

The only problem i ever had was flamethrower - it was main hard hit skill -but you had to aim it , your target had to be in 10 m range [ 70 % + 50 % + 30 %slow helps- you always had 1 slow on target with this ] but despite the fact that you could use hydraulic overrides to get immunity to knockback you always get cc .

After 2.0 changes that killed this build are

-prototype weapon systems [ no longer +30 % on crit in flamer burst - main hit skill ]

-you are forced to use high energy gas cylinder [ that was nerf in prototype cylinder [from 3% to 1% ]

-flamethrower is now less effective due to fact that moust calsses got slow / snares breaker now and they can just run around or behind you not to mention cc and that you must have hydraulic overrides or you get knockback.

My requests ;

- give us back old prototype weapon systems [ in lve 55 crit chance is low anyway but still

-buff prototype cylinder for high energy gas cylinder [ not necessary dmg but somethin ]

- change flame thrower : - all below req prototype flame thrower skill

* when using it with high explosive fuel immu to stun

or

* when using it with high explosive fuel channel faster like in flame engine

or

*when using it with high explosive fuel all affected targets are snared

Edited April 17, 2013 by Feitros

[Aetrus]

I played maybe 30 games as AP over the past 2 days. In my opinion, Flamethrower doesn't need a change. It's very situational, and if I wanted to play a turret class, I'd be playing a merc or a sniper anyway.

 

AP feels pretty good to me, except for three things. The biggest is that the rotation isn't smooth, because Immolate's CD is massive. It really needs to be 10 seconds instead of 15, or there needs to be a way to proc it off CD like PPA does for Railshot in the Pyro tree. I'm using Immolate>R-Blade>Rocket Punch>Railshot, and then I have to Flame Burst 3-4 times before Immolate comes off CD. Since I'm not Pyro specc'd, Flame Burst's damage is pathetic. AP's burst is already bad, I don't need to be tickling people with Flame Burst.

 

That's the other thing. AP's burst is too low. If I have to have a top tier ability that's on a 15 second CD, then I damn well want it to be hitting for 8.5k instead of 5.5k.

 

Lastly, the 'Prototype Cylinders' talent in the AP tree for AP is a joke. 1% increased elemental damage? Bioware, do you want me to come to Austin, TX and slap you? You could probably make that 5% increased elemental damage and it wouldn't be OP.

[dijskykiller]

Lastly, the 'Prototype Cylinders' talent in the AP tree for AP is a joke. 1% increased elemental damage? Bioware, do you want me to come to Austin, TX and slap you? You could probably make that 5% increased elemental damage and it wouldn't be OP.

 

Indeed, this is the best talent to spend your skill point on. The designer should've taken a little more time and come up with a better idea. I would prefer an increase in walking speed than this 1% buff.

[iDraxter]

what i`d really want for AP is some skill to have a X% chance to make ur next Prototype Flamethrower cast twice as fast

[PoonPoon]

what i`d really want for AP is some skill to have a X% chance to make ur next Prototype Flamethrower cast twice as fast

 

thats in shield tech already

[foxmob]

I'm using Immolate>R-Blade>Rocket Punch>Railshot, and then I have to Flame Burst 3-4 times before Immolate comes off CD. Since I'm not Pyro specc'd, Flame Burst's damage is pathetic. AP's burst is already bad, I don't need to be tickling people with Flame Burst. .

 

I'm still trying to find a roto I like. I've stopped actively trying to setup massive flamethrower sessions and more or less use that as a finisher.

 

my question to you is why start with immolate? doesn't retractable buff everything else? or is it simply a range thing?

[Aetrus]

I'm still trying to find a roto I like. I've stopped actively trying to setup massive flamethrower sessions and more or less use that as a finisher.

 

my question to you is why start with immolate? doesn't retractable buff everything else? or is it simply a range thing?

 

Yep, its a range thing. 10m vs 4m. You could open with Flame Burst, too, but Rocket Punch is your hardest hitting ability in AP spec and you're delaying it by a GCD doing so.

[Brunner_Venda]

Played some AP PVP last night.

 

Basically, the damage is so bad you barely kill anyone, but they sure as hell can kill you.

 

If there is a healer on the other side? Yeah forget it.

 

This needs to be fixed, the class needs burst for PVP, it's just ridiculous. Not to mention the spec is 300 DPS or more behind other DPS specs on any parse.

 

Stupid *********** biofail.

[Sepulch]

Played some AP PVP last night..

Maybe play a bit more getting to know the spec very well instead of a few hours of warzones followed by a conclusion it sucks. I join Aetrus, AP feels very good to me. It required some serious playing adjustment from my other specs, but once mastered it's quite an interesting spec to play. Edited August 2, 2013 by Sepulch

[foxmob]

Here are my findings for AP 2.0, all reg WZs and Kickball style rated:

 

The Good

• considerably better survivability than pyro
  
• considerably easier resource management (not that pyro was difficult)
  
• better ops utility because more missiles and better survivability to guard node; slightly faster movement speed; shorter cds on grapple, electro dart, and quell; and a longer carbonize (set bonus)
  
• can solo most dps specs and all tank specs
  

 

The Bad

• cannot do as much dmg or burst as pyro, not even full pyro that takes TD (TD is widely considered a dps loss)
  
• although it's on a relatively short cd, cannot execute full flame throwers due to the fact that it's a channel and the plethora of CCs and escapes available to every class
  
• must be within 4m of opponent considerably more frequently than pyro, which makes sitting in smashes and aoe a must, thus nullifying our stronger defenses while attacking.
  

 

My gear is full conqueror combat tech minus head and gloves. all augments are 28 power. all mods are high aim with power, which means a handful of partisan mods/enh still there. I have all of the aim/cunning crons but, commically, not the fleet cron (hey, it's like a 5th toon!). So I'm clearly not min maxed but still very well geared for reg WZs.

 

My Rotations

I have found that focusing effort on a fully buffed flame thrower costs me a lot of set-up time and very little reward (compare to a smasher). So I focus on the 4m stuff and rely on FT as a more situational abil. The following roto assumes running in from distance:

• sticky grenade (forget the pt name)
  
• auto attack
  
• immolate
  
• retractable blades
  
• rocket punch
  
• rail
  

from this point, RB will often already be cleansed, so I may reapply or fp twice. if I get off the two fp's, I'll sell out with a hard stun, pop HO, battle focus (forget pt name) and unload FT -- this is a huge gamble as I can still be stunned and he probably has his breaker, but I'm gambling on him not trying to break a first CC. this works maybe 30-50% of the time. it's not just that I can get CC'd myself, but every class has so many escapes now that this abil is far too telegraphed.

 

in a concentrated burn, I'm gong to pop my missiles while the buffed FT is going off, but the more common scenario is that I fire missiles right from the get go or while stunned (the crit buff is only available for 1 in about 10[?] FTs, so holding missiles for it is a dps and burst loss).

 

FP is filler whenever immolate and RP are on cd or I'm not within 4m. I absolutely strive to get the guaranteed crit railshot combo. I find myself using RB a lot, partly because it's getting cleansed, but also because every new target needs an application of it, and it's almost 50/50 that I'm able to just tunnel one person in an actual WZ.

 

while isolating a healer with grapple, I'll do an immediate carbonize and usually get through buffed rail portion, then fill his resolve with the long stun. part of that is just trying to get as much burst as possible, but mostly it's to isolate him, because most healers pop their best escapes/cc's the second you pull them. I figure full resolve is worth it if I can isolate them, and my carbonize is a little bit longer.

 

so that's my assessment and my basic approach. is there anything you'd suggest that I tweak? I'm thinking of just dumping the 15% speed boost. literally, the only time I notice it is when I outrun other PTs to the expertise buff in ahg. lol

Edited August 2, 2013 by foxmob

[Brunner_Venda]

^^^ I do a lot of the same as AP, except that I use the RB before Immolate for the damage bonus.

 

Only problem is, the spec can't get the 6K damage medal without picking up a battlefield power up and using rail shot on an unarmored sorc. It's pathetic, and PFT does underwhelming damage.

 

Sadly I do better as full pyro.

 

Approach using the regular pistol attack. (Hammer shot?)

Explosive dart at range

Thermal Det

Rail shot. It should crit and both explosives go off at about the same time.

 

That combo still hits for over 12K as an opener (6.5k, 4K, and 1.5K)

 

Then add in incendiary missile (DOT)

Thermal detornator DOT it still ticking.

Refresh CGC DOT with a flame burst.

Three dots ticking can take 1K/sec if not cleansed. This happens on your attack phase and your GCD.

 

Fire rocket punch, Rail shot should reset, then hit that. The other guy should be near dead.

 

For pyro, I stack aim and aim mods with the elim set. With the 9% aim boost, I end up a bit lower on bonus damage than if you stack power, but the extra crit helps with AIM over 3050 (43% so rail shot crit, 28% all else)

[foxmob]

if I could get a consistent 3.4k tick from FT, I think I'd be ok with the fact that it's channeled, so I won't be able to execute it all the time. but rarely do you find a target without some sort of dcd activated, so I'll look at a 3-stack FT that I manage to channel completely on the same target tick for 1k-1.5k each. that's just ridiculously useless. the fact that he's 70% slowed is like the only practical benefit.

 

but this post is just QQ. my previous one is serious. is there something else to try with AP?

[Aetrus]

so that's my assessment and my basic approach. is there anything you'd suggest that I tweak? I'm thinking of just dumping the 15% speed boost. literally, the only time I notice it is when I outrun other PTs to the expertise buff in ahg. lol

 

Gotta stay within 4m more often. That speed boost helps. What I've been doing lately (switched back to AP 4 days ago and have been playing it since) is taking 2 points out of the talent which makes Rocket Punch free after Immolate or Flame Burst, and putting them in the lower FT CD. I did this because I never ever had to use Vent Heat when running AP, the resource management was so easy. And I figured 3 seconds off FT might be worth the DPS gain. So far I like the change. I'm a lot more loose with my FTs because it comes off CD sooner, and I'm staying around most good Smashers in dmg (yesterday in a Voidstar that only lasted about 1 1/2 into the second round, top dmg was a good Smash marauder with 610k dmg, with me being second at 580k.)

[foxmob]

hmm. what's your skill tree look like?

here's what I've had the most success with:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMrRrRRkGhzZb.3

 

I took quick interrupts over minor reduction for electro dart and went with dps whenever there was a choice between dps and survivability (combust, rebounder, power armor).

 

for any suggestions, please thoroughly explain why. I'm not testing you. I genuinely want to understand what this spec is *supposed* to do and milk it for what I can in that way.

 

also, if it wasn't obvious, I'm only really interested in pvp but if there's a max dmg pve approach that's diff, I'd still like to read about it.

[Brunner_Venda]

Good God why would you skip energy rebounder? That's... Bad.

 

It's the best defensive CD in any of our trees.

 

Energy shield is nearly always up and ready.

 

The redoubt proc absorbs damage.

 

Drop a point of quell and hyper fuel for it.

[foxmob]

while I understand it's a great passive defensive talent, my rationale is that survivability is already very good. I'm hesitant to pull anything away from dps (hyper fuel) or utility/interrupt (hitman) since I find myself usually locking down heals.

 

appreciate the input. want to hear moar.

Edited August 3, 2013 by foxmob

[Aetrus]

hmm. what's your skill tree look like?

here's what I've had the most success with:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMrRrRRkGhzZb.3

 

I took quick interrupts over minor reduction for electro dart and went with dps whenever there was a choice between dps and survivability (combust, rebounder, power armor).

 

for any suggestions, please thoroughly explain why. I'm not testing you. I genuinely want to understand what this spec is *supposed* to do and milk it for what I can in that way.

 

My current setup is this. You could take 2 points out of Advanced Tools and put them in Flame Barrage, but like I said before the resource management in AP is good enough to not need it. You could take Hitman over Power Armor, or remove that point in Prototype Cylinders since that talent is practically worthless anyway, but meh. I don't really miss the shorter interrupt. Healers don't usually like to cast stuff in a 3stack Flamethrower anyway, and there's always Carbonize/Electro Dart/Pull if I need another interrupt after the first.

 

And Brunner's right. Energy Rebounder is a must talent. It's what allows AP to 1v1 most other specs. The Redoubt proc is insane.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Aetrus

[iDraxter]

*PvP*

Adv prototype fails againts good players always dmg is to easily out healed,it puts 0 pressure on anyone, Flame thrower is all fluff dmg, buff for AP that would actually really help the core of this spec is giving it the ability from the tank tree "Flame Engine" which makes ur next Flamethrower tick twice as fast, hell smash hits harder and it`s instant, I think it would make AP viable, right now pyro is still better I keep jumping between full pyro and this hybrid. Full pyro has a tiny bit more burst cuz of TD(which is underpowerd and not to mention the garbage high tier stuff u have to waste points to actually reach TD), but this hybrid gives more sustained dmg...it max`s the dmg of ur flame bursts and railshots, It`s getting me TOP dmg always, only a good sniper or smasher can do more dmg then me.

 

Power Armor, Volatile Igniter and Infrared Sensors are the meh nothing better to get abilities of that hybrid

Edited August 3, 2013 by iDraxter

[foxmob]

given the placement of rebounder, hitman and flame barrage are moot, are they not? I'd have to sac something in the shield or pyro trees?

[iDraxter]

hmm. what's your skill tree look like?

here's what I've had the most success with:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMrRrRRkGhzZb.3

 

I took quick interrupts over minor reduction for electro dart and went with dps whenever there was a choice between dps and survivability (combust, rebounder, power armor).

 

for any suggestions, please thoroughly explain why. I'm not testing you. I genuinely want to understand what this spec is *supposed* to do and milk it for what I can in that way.

 

also, if it wasn't obvious, I'm only really interested in pvp but if there's a max dmg pve approach that's diff, I'd still like to read about it.

Remove the point from the cylinders, really 1% inc dmg? hahahaha the guy that designed that was prob high at the moment. the 2nd point to use for Energy rebounder i`d take out 1 point out of blood tracker , hitman or hyper fuel (sack hitman better) Edited August 3, 2013 by iDraxter

[foxmob]

as I find quel invaluable, imma try it without flame barrage. if heat is an issue, I'll split the difference and put 1 in each of them.

 

my concern remains the same, though. I haven't found survivability to be an issue at all, even w/o rebounder.

[iDraxter]

as I find quel invaluable, imma try it without flame barrage. if heat is an issue, I'll split the difference and put 1 in each of them.

 

my concern remains the same, though. I haven't found survivability to be an issue at all, even w/o rebounder.

it`s ur choice but u don`t really need it, but then again i also use grenades so maybe that`s why i`m not feeling it, at the end of the day all ur doing is trying to shut down the healer cuz u`ll never kill him solo(only noobs) and the fact that operatives only ever CAST Kolto injection and everything else is instant...oh and clean my dots...ya their my bane, best healer to harrass are sorc/sage

 

How`s quell`s 2 sec shorted cd gonna counter a healer that`s using his instant heals(operatives non stop) until they get out of melee range from u?(force speed, roll-crouch, vanish or merc shield immune to interrupts) my point is all the healers u face just sit there and take it? which brings me to another serious question about this class......Why is our interrupt melee range but assassins have it at 10m?

Edited August 3, 2013 by iDraxter

[Brunner_Venda]

Maybe play a bit more getting to know the spec very well instead of a few hours of warzones followed by a conclusion it sucks. I join Aetrus, AP feels very good to me. It required some serious playing adjustment from my other specs, but once mastered it's quite an interesting spec to play.

 

I know the spec well, I finished the PVE content with it, and played it in PVP for 2 months straight after 2.0 hit.

 

Then I started running Pyro when grouped with a healer. Lets be honest, it does more damage and kills more players.

The best of both worlds is the 2/22/22 spec, that gets prototype accelerator, firebug, and PFT. It hits for 6.5-7K rail shots every six seconds and has the best goodies in the AP tree.

 

I still use AP for fun stuff like the Gree event and Outlaws Den. I usually respec AP for the defense phase of VoidStar too, because there's no better spec to stay alive and prevent caps.

[JolinTsai]

They should make SC loads all 4 missiles instantly thru out all specs and make power loaders give us the option to either fire the missiles all 7 at once or one at a time. Make Immolate hit a little harder and lower to cd to 9 secs. IMO that should fix the most of the spec issues.

[Aetrus]

Dudes, playing AP is making me depressed. The TTK is so, so, so ridiculous. I'm convinced even Madness Sorcs can kill targets faster. I think I'd recommend playing Pyro if you run at over 20 FPS in WZs (lately I've been between 6-13 in most, so...yeah.) Even nerfed its still scarier than AP, which needs serious help offensively. Edited August 5, 2013 by Aetrus