I do not get the love for KOTOR

[AhsokaTanorules]

Okay a lot of you swore by this game and I gave it a try. I just can't get into it. Yes perhaps I am judging the game too harshly since it is older but....

 

The graphics are cruddy, the avatar system makes my character look like garbage, it disturbs me that my character does not talk during story scenes, and I find the pace of the fights to be too frenetic, even worse than Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy 13. Dragon Age had these same issues.

 

Yes I understand these games are older but even Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 4 and Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening are more appealing so far for nostalgia.

[spectreclees]

Okay a lot of you swore by this game and I gave it a try. I just can't get into it. Yes perhaps I am judging the game too harshly since it is older but....

 

The graphics are cruddy, the avatar system makes my character look like garbage, it disturbs me that my character does not talk during story scenes, and I find the pace of the fights to be too frenetic, even worse than Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy 13. Dragon Age had these same issues.

 

Yes I understand these games are older but even Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 4 and Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening are more appealing so far for nostalgia.

 

If you played it at the time of it's release you'd feel the same way a lot of us do. You even state in your reasons for hating it: graphics are cruddy. Right there you should have stopped yourself and said, wait a second. That's a terrible argument for a 10 year old game.

[Machine-Elf]

Why don't you go ahead and give it a go past Taris.

 

You'll see what all the praise is about.

[YoshiRaphElan]

In 2003, it was a game to drool over. Seriously, it was awesome. I agree that it's not so cool that your character doesn't talk in conversations, but in a lot of them you introduce yourself, and that would've been impossible to voice over.

[Vandicus]

Graphics are a poor way to judge a game. I'll agree with you that the combat is poor, it generally is in Bioware's rpgs(though in their defense, they simply cribbed off D&D 3e for KoToR, which is what a lot of developers did at the time). The good things about KoToR are the story(which is at least decent) and the various choices that can be made.

 

Now as for the DA:O fans, I've no idea what they're on about. Perhaps it was their first Bioware rpg. IMO that game was only marginally better than Neverwinter Nights(the overarching plot of DA:O is very stereotypical high fantasy, and DA:O only wins out because the companions are done much better than NWN). Both had long areas of grind too, which I dislike in single player rpgs.

[razerfun]

yeah, for me it was the first Star Wars CRPG I ever played. Graphics were amazing for the time. It was basically a D&D 3rd Ed campaign set in the Star Wars universe, which for me was utterly, earth-shatteringly awesome. I guess maybe it hasn't stood the test of time the way Chrono Trigger or FF VI have, but at the time is was an amazing experience.

[Beyzend]

One of the reason why the fights may be hectic is you can pause to strategize your fights. Maybe if you play on easy you don't have to do this. But I play on hard and I always plan my fights by pausing.

 

I tried to play SWTOR2 the other day, but because I play so much swtor it just felt weird. So yeah I know what you're talking about.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Beyzend

[Hyfy]

yeah, for me it was the first Star Wars CRPG I ever played. Graphics were amazing for the time. It was basically a D&D 3rd Ed campaign set in the Star Wars universe, which for me was utterly, earth-shatteringly awesome. I guess maybe it hasn't stood the test of time the way Chrono Trigger or FF VI have, but at the time is was an amazing experience.

 

Pretty much this, being a huge DnD fan and seeing how it was based off of that and placed in the SW universe sold me on it. The story line through it and KOTOR 2 were epic. Hell to this day I will break them out on my 360 and play them through every once in awhile. Still love them.

[Darth_Exar]

The game came out in 2003, so the graphics aren't going to be fantastic (yes they could have done slightly better but I think its aged quite well), I agree that the avatars are not the best....the combat is based off D&D (d20), so I guess it has that appeal of nostalgia and was relatively familiar to RPG 'Vets'. The technology wasn't available to make the combat like todays games and even Mass Effect has been heavily influenced by Kotor. It was one of the first (recent/remembered) western RPGs that became successful (It won a BAFTA, which I think is pretty darn good.). And to me it was a welcome break from Japanese RPGs.

 

The dialogue system was very unique and relatively new, morality system was sort of new, story was in depth and the characters where fleshed out, simple NPCs had a full backstory, hec even your inventory items have a story, and ITS STAR WARS !

 

The reason the character doesn't talk is so that you yourself give he/she a voice (RP!).

 

Also KOTOR was one of the very first games I ever owned and I played it about 10+ times because I just loved it so much, including the plot twist which really made my head spin. What appeals to me personally is that the story and lore is set apart from the main films/main stream games .....And is arguably one of the better things that came from the SW universe (I'm looking at you LucasArts). *cough* That wasn't biased at all

[Vandicus]

 

The dialogue system was very unique and relatively new, morality system was sort of new, story was in depth and the characters where fleshed out, simple NPCs had a full backstory, hec even your inventory items have a story, and ITS STAR WARS !

 

A side point to mention, KoToR was for many western RPG fans their WoW(their introduction to that form of rpg). While many might perceive KoToR as groundbreaking or extremely innovative, Bioware had already been using dialogue and morality systems for half a decade, not to mention the other gaming companies that competed with them.

[TechnogeekSA]

Graphics are a poor way to judge a game. I'll agree with you that the combat is poor, it generally is in Bioware's rpgs(though in their defense, they simply cribbed off D&D 3e for KoToR, which is what a lot of developers did at the time).

 

More specifically, they cribbed off the d20 Star Wars ruleset being published by Wizards of the Coast at the time.

[Darth_Exar]

A side point to mention, KoToR was for many western RPG fans their WoW(their introduction to that form of rpg). While many might perceive KoToR as groundbreaking or extremely innovative, Bioware had already been using dialogue and morality systems for half a decade, not to mention the other gaming companies that competed with them.

 

Yes that as well. But if your thinking of NW or Baldur's gate, I just didn't find it as amazing as Kotor, probably because it wasn't in the same format, leading to fully voiced over dialogue.

[Machine-Elf]

The evolutionary—not revolutionary—part about the morality system in KOTOR was that it changed your character's physical appearance according to your decisions.

 

The three wheeled conversation system where you get to hear your character actually speak is still inferior to KOTOR's more robust alternative, in my opinion, and will remain so until they finally get around to incorporating an adaptive conversation system into it that allows you to fine-tune your character's personality as you go along.

 

The story is a masterpiece as far as the medium of videogames is concerned, very few games even come close to touching it (Eternal Darkness, Fallout, Lands of Lore, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Deus Ex, the StarCraft series and, yes, Dragon Age: Origins, being a few choice examples) -- and is, without question, vastly superior to SWTOR's, as well as its massively overrated sequel's.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Vandicus]

Yes that as well. But if your thinking of NW or Baldur's gate, I just didn't find it as amazing as Kotor, probably because it wasn't in the same format, leading to fully voiced over dialogue.

 

KoToR was definitely far more cinematic than their previous games yes, and perhaps marks the point where they started focusing more heavily on visuals, but from a storytelling point of view there was nothing comparatively remarkable about it to distinguish it from previous works or other products from the same time.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Graphics don't make the game. Duke Nukem Forever and Fable III taught us that.

 

Get past your superficial and actually experience the game.

[Obianon]

It has to do with storytelling, and the story of KOTOR has barely started on Taris. As for graphics and whatnot, keep in mind you are judging a game that came out ten years ago. You wouldn't hate on Ocarina of Time because its graphics aren't like your PS3's.

[Logisitcs]

KotoR is to the PC like FFVII is to the PSX and Ocarina of Time is to the N64

 

Start a Revan vs. Cloud vs. Link thread and the internet will explode

[-IceHawk-]

Checks Override Folders; KOTOR and TSL both still stacked to the brim with dozens upon dozens of mods...

 

...half a dozen save-games each...

 

...have not even started the Restoration Project version of TSL...

 

Knights of the Old Republic was one of the best RPGs produced during the first decade of the 2000s and it emphasized something that made it and other games like it (VTM: Bloodlines still makes me drool...) superior to much of the common faire....

 

..it had solid Bioware storytelling adapted into the Star Wars universe without altering the feeling of the franchise. You can see meaningful character development, branching story-arcs, consequential decisions (especially in the Restored TSL). The same can be said of other games like DA:O.

 

These games were not action games they were instead Story-Driven RPG games with action elements.

 

If your main issue with a game is that graphics from a decade ago do not meet modern standards or the combat is not fast paced enough for you, you are failing to judge it for its merits.

 

/OldManVoice – "Back in my day we considered Story the most important part of a gaming experience...and modability...love me some FemRevan/Bastila/Juhani/Carth love connections...nom nom...." /CreepyOldManVoice

[-IceHawk-]

KoToR was definitely far more cinematic than their previous games yes, and perhaps marks the point where they started focusing more heavily on visuals, but from a storytelling point of view there was nothing comparatively remarkable about it to distinguish it from previous works or other products from the same time.

 

And the same can be said to be true of every major title produced in the modern era; show me a game that lacks the classic tropes of storytelling and the incumbent tropes of its particular franchise and I will give you $1.00...

[Diablo_Cow]

I remember buying this on my xbox has a young kid since it had Star Wars in it. When I tried it I was engrossed by the world but somehow lost the disk :/

 

Tried a few times to get back into it. I managed to go back and actually play it all of the way through. I agree the graphics are kinda horrible but meh, the combat was amazing. Each of the skills felt unique and nicely visualized. Even during pauses the tense atmosphere of combat was present. But unfortunately I actually learned the plot twist via friends so the story lost a lot of its shock value to me. The story is extremely well done and I would love to go back in a couple of months to correct some mistakes I made like having Big Z kill Mission. Even in an evil run through I tried to avoid such a heart breaking decision

 

That said I enjoy the game play, I love the story, and the characters are all extremely well done. But I can't get into the Revan club, I suppose the lack of a voice kind of prevents me revering him. I dislike Revan since he is hyped up a lot.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yes I understand these games are older but even Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 4 and Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening are more appealing so far for nostalgia.

 

If you played those games in their time and not this one then yeah. That's how nostalgia works. You don't get Kotor nostalgia by playing it now, you get if for having played it then. So you have none for it. Older games without it tend to have these identical complaints levied against them, which all boil down to "its outdated." Yeah, of course it is. If you didn't play it when it wasn't, and you're not the kind of person who is able to overlook that (few are, I know I often can't) then no your not going to like the game. Sorry you missed it.

[Machine-Elf]

And the same can be said to be true of every major title produced in the modern era; show me a game that lacks the classic tropes of storytelling and the incumbent tropes of its particular franchise and I will give you $1.00...

I'd say most classes in this game provide a pretty good example of something deviating (not in a positive way) from the classic tropes of storytelling.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[MarvelZombie]

If you played those games in their time and not this one then yeah. That's how nostalgia works. You don't get Kotor nostalgia by playing it now, you get if for having played it then. So you have none for it. Older games without it tend to have these identical complaints levied against them, which all boil down to "its outdated." Yeah, of course it is. If you didn't play it when it wasn't, and you're not the kind of person who is able to overlook that (few are, I know I often can't) then no your not going to like the game. Sorry you missed it.

 

This. So this.

 

Did OP really expect a 10-year old game to blow his socks off?

[Genghistwelve]

A side point to mention, KoToR was for many western RPG fans their WoW(their introduction to that form of rpg). While many might perceive KoToR as groundbreaking or extremely innovative, Bioware had already been using dialogue and morality systems for half a decade, not to mention the other gaming companies that competed with them.

 

Well, there's more to it that that. Would you say the Mass Effect dialogue system was particularly ground-breaking or innovative? Because that's the one which got Drew Karpyshyn his patent (along with fellow "dialogue system" creators Hudson, Bishop, Greig, Martens, Muzyka and Ohlen).

 

I mean, sure, it's not like the real Bioware wasn't without gripes (the Hellforge "Bioware RPG Cliché Chart and/or the Patrick Weekes "Bioware Gets Butthurt Over Story Criticism"), but you have to remember several things...

 

In 2003, this was the first ever CRPG set in the Star Wars universe. This thing face-melted the competition, and swept the awards that year.

 

There's a few things you simply have to ignore:

1) the graphics; we're talking a 10-year old game;

2) the pausable "real-time" turn-based combat: either you love it or you hate it. If you are a pure turn-based'er, then you can play the game that way. If you are a pure real-timer, then you will be annoyed at the auto-pauses when they occur, but you can play the game largely real-time if it suits you.

 

Put those aside, and you have a unique Star Wars game set in a period of the EU that's seldom explored except for the odd comic series or pnp RPG supplement. The fans just ate the thing up.

[AhsokaTanorules]

Anyway I decided to give this game another go.

 

My computer broke down so I was forced to blow the dust off my Xbox 360 and play around with games I "put on the shelf" so to speak like Blue Dragon and Dragon Age. I played Dragon Age long enough that I not only finished Origins but did Awakenings too.

 

When I got my computer back I decided to download KOTOR again and give it another try. This time I decided to canonically play LS instead of DS like I did with my previous file. Obviously since my computer broke and I had to reinstall I had lost my old DS toon. I was starting to get back into the game and even was eager to move onto KOTOR 2 afterwards.

 

Sigh...I don't think I will ever get another non-online game for my PC again. At least even with Starcraft 2 and the Diablo games you can keep your characters so long as you have a Blizzard account.

 

My freaking file for my new LS toon randomly erased somehow. I had noticed the icon for KOTOR 1 had disappeared from my login screen even though the game itself was still fully installed. Any idea how someting like this could happen? I have noticed a lot of new junky stuff on my comp ever since I got it back from the shop. I really hate to have to do Brejik and the Vulkar base all over again.

 

Maybe I should try and find a copy for the Xbox. Did Xbox release a Kotor 1 and 2 package like the PC did and if so would it be compatible for 360?