2.0 Hardmode Flashpoints are not worth the payout.

[Lostpenguins]

yes, I do

Or at least purple lvl 53 (66) equip, not the blue bs

Then you're being unreasonable. When HM's first came out in Vanilla there was plenty of blue equipment to go through before final boss.

 

2.0 is no different.

 

Probably later on they'll ramp up the earlier gear as they did in Vanilla once the gear-up hill gets steeper to help newer people.

[Andryah]

yes, I do

Or at least purple lvl 53 (66) equip, not the blue bs

 

 

 

that's just completely untrue.

they are categorized as boss mobs.

 

or do you say the dreadguards and kephess in asation aren't bosses either, they're just hard mobs?

is your opinion that they shouldn't drop any interesting loot as well?

 

Dude... they are flashpoints... NOT OPs.

 

Learn the difference please.

[Never_Hesitate]

These are not operations, they are flashpoints. They are much shorter and easier. There are also at least half as many people as in an operation. It should drop less loot.

 

Even if they dropped a purple lvl 53 item, they'd be dropping less loot than an operation boss.

An operation boss on 8-man drops at least 2 peices, one bm and one kit for an arcanian item

the loot in hm fp's would still be way less than the loot in operations, if the bosses all dropped a bm part or at least a purple lvl 53 part

 

Up until semi-recently the only good drop in the 50 HMs was the last boss and the bonus boss (maybe). Everything else was worthless.

 

do you speak about the time the lvl 50 hm fp's were released or do you speak about the time when a fresh lvl 50 char got free recruit and free tionese?

 

when you didn't get free tionese, every piece of energiced or tionese (which dropped from the bosses except from the end boss who dropped columi) you could get was better than your leveling gear.

now with the gear requirement of 148 on hm fps lvl 55, the orange/blue drops are often worse than the gear your wearing (even if it's your first hm fp on lvl 55)

 

Dude... they are flashpoints... NOT OPs.

 

Learn the difference please.

 

A boss is a boss, it doesn't matter if it's in an ops or fp.

I know the difference pretty well.

To say the bosses in fp's are just hard mobs is bs and you know that, because so are the operation bosses and world bosses.

That's why they are called bosses, because they're hard mobs

Edited April 18, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[Lostpenguins]

Even if they dropped a purple lvl 53 item,

[snip]

That's why they are called bosses, because they're hard mobs

Here we go again. Tbh, the loot progression is fine. HM EV, KP, and EC are super easy at level 55 and drop lvl 63 gear. Basic comms from dailies on Makeb and crafting can get you lvl 66 gear. Final bosses from HM's drop lvl 69 gear. You get Elite comms from from plenty of stuff that gives you lvl 69 gear. SM TFB/S&M drop set-bonus lvl 69 gear. You get ultra comms from doing the Weekly Quest to complete HM EV/KP/EC, from doing 3 HM's in a week, and from que'ing through the LFG tool for SM TFB/S&M.

 

It's super-easy to get gear, the path progression is nice, and there's several ways of going about to get said gear.

 

Everything is fine the way it is.

[Never_Hesitate]

Here we go again. Tbh, the loot progression is fine. HM EV, KP, and EC are super easy at level 55 and drop lvl 63 gear. Basic comms from dailies on Makeb and crafting can get you lvl 66 gear. Final bosses from HM's drop lvl 69 gear. You get Elite comms from from plenty of stuff that gives you lvl 69 gear. SM TFB/S&M drop set-bonus lvl 69 gear. You get ultra comms from doing the Weekly Quest to complete HM EV/KP/EC, from doing 3 HM's in a week, and from que'ing through the LFG tool for SM TFB/S&M.

 

It's super-easy to get gear, the path progression is nice, and there's several ways of going about to get said gear.

 

Everything is fine the way it is.

 

Such ignorance, you didn't even bother reading my post.

[Thundergulch]

Here we go again. Tbh, the loot progression is fine. HM EV, KP, and EC are super easy at level 55 and drop lvl 63 gear. Basic comms from dailies on Makeb and crafting can get you lvl 66 gear. Final bosses from HM's drop lvl 69 gear. You get Elite comms from from plenty of stuff that gives you lvl 69 gear. SM TFB/S&M drop set-bonus lvl 69 gear. You get ultra comms from doing the Weekly Quest to complete HM EV/KP/EC, from doing 3 HM's in a week, and from que'ing through the LFG tool for SM TFB/S&M.

 

It's super-easy to get gear, the path progression is nice, and there's several ways of going about to get said gear.

 

Everything is fine the way it is.

 

How dare you use logic and common sense!

[Lostpenguins]

Such ignorance, you didn't even bother reading my post.

I did... but you're basically complaining about HM gear not being really good for every boss kill. But it's fine the way it is. Maybe some of those bosses dropped something better for you that you didn't find on Makeb for get pre-Vanilla. The way it works is fine. The bosses before may grant an upgrade to your gear. The bonus boss and end boss most certainly will (if you can stand getting bad itemization such as lol str dps with crit and alacrity on it).

 

It's not ignorance... it's telling you to look at the big picture and be fine with it. In Vanilla before they handed out Tionese the bosses before the end boss sometimes dropped upgrades. They were blues, sometimes oranges, but not always upgrades if you used mods from Corellia. You could do dailies on Ilum and Belsavis to get daily comms to get Rakata Implants and artifact lvl 51 hilts/barrels. It's the same thing here. You can do Makeb Dailies and get artifact lvl 66 hilts/barrels.

 

Do you remember none of this? Were you playing the first few months of this game's release?

Edited April 18, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[Andryah]

A boss is a boss, it doesn't matter if it's in an ops or fp.

I know the difference pretty well.

To say the bosses in fp's are just hard mobs is bs and you know that, because so are the operation bosses and world bosses.

That's why they are called bosses, because they're hard mobs

 

I see your problem here... you think loot is boss based. It's not. It is encounter based. Encounters have loot tables and loot rules based on their scale of play (being it hard mode or higher player counts, or both). OPs and FPs are different scale of encounters. OPs require more people.. so they issue more loot and often beter loot. derp...pretty common design in MMOs... regardless of the MMO and the names of the encounters.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Here we go again. Tbh, the loot progression is fine. HM EV, KP, and EC are super easy at level 55 and drop lvl 63 gear. Basic comms from dailies on Makeb and crafting can get you lvl 66 gear. Final bosses from HM's drop lvl 69 gear. You get Elite comms from from plenty of stuff that gives you lvl 69 gear. SM TFB/S&M drop set-bonus lvl 69 gear. You get ultra comms from doing the Weekly Quest to complete HM EV/KP/EC, from doing 3 HM's in a week, and from que'ing through the LFG tool for SM TFB/S&M.

 

It's super-easy to get gear, the path progression is nice, and there's several ways of going about to get said gear.

 

Everything is fine the way it is.

 

I agree.

 

I think the core problem here is people want more for less once again.

 

So they crab walk the problem and attack a particular class of encounter they want to run and demand it give them exactly what they want. The end game progression is a macrocosim.. but they are demanding microcosim play. But this is an age old complaint in MMOs.. so it's nothing new here.

[Lostpenguins]

I agree.

 

I think the core problem here is people want more for less once again.

 

So they crab walk the problem and attack a particular class of encounter they want to run and demand it give them exactly what they want. The end game progression is a macrocosim.. but they are demanding microcosim play. But this is an age old complaint in MMOs.. so it's nothing new here.

Yep... and it always picks up steam after an MMO expansion as the old gear gets tossed aside. And here we are, Week #2 and the complaints are a comin'. =)

[Khevar]

Even if they dropped a purple lvl 53 item, they'd be dropping less loot than an operation boss.

An operation boss on 8-man drops at least 2 peices, one bm and one kit for an arcanian item

the loot in hm fp's would still be way less than the loot in operations, if the bosses all dropped a bm part or at least a purple lvl 53 part

 

...

One thing you have to keep in mind is lockouts. As in, Flashpoints have none.

 

Last weekend, a friend of mine was doing Makeb/GSI and queued the group finder for HM FPs all day long. It would pop, he'd run a flashpoint, he'd finish, queue again and go back to questing.

 

Despite being a dps with longer queue times, he was in FULL 69 over a 2-day period. And these were not guild runs in vent. These were group finder pugs.

 

I'm not trying to present his case as typical. But my point is, because there are no lockouts, you can run them over and over and over again. Two pieces of 69 gear per run. 4 players. Plus the comms. Plus the grade 10 mats to sell on the gtn.

[Ocho-Quatro]

You know.....

 

19 pages of this thread, and I can't believe that no one has made the comment yet:

 

"I like my flashpoints like my *****es... they should be long, hard and payoff more than once."

 

just sayin'

Edited April 18, 2013 by Ocho-Quatro

[chuixupu]

Some people have probably forgotten that at some point they actually upgraded the loot that dropped in the old flashpoints. They'll probably do that with the new ones once another tier or 2 is introduced.

[DarthOvertone]

I primarily PvP. In fact, until this past week, I had never even done a HM FP on my Imp aside from the one I did to get HK.

 

So I ran some with my guildies over the weekend. We finished each one in like 20-30 minutes. No deaths, no real trouble, no sweat. My Sniper now has a full set of PvE gear of assorted styles. He is running Scum and Villainy tonight.

 

HM FPs are ezmode. Can't believe anyone would complain about them.

[Stryges]

Man, I am continually amazed. I thought the mindless fanboy/girl-ism was bad at launch.

 

In my opinion, as far as FP's are concerned, the reward is not particularly worth the effort.* This (again, in my opinion) is partly due to the drops, but mostly due to the community. I can completely understand why people might be upset at the current state considering the annoyance one goes through in a FP (and this is on both sides, a relatively new player being bombarded with various versions of L2P [just like in this thread] can get just as frustrated as a veteran who is trying to wrangle a bunch of ADD players and a tank in DPS gear). There is very little pay off for doing FP's in you are not in a guild.

 

 

*As a related but not strictly relevant topic, doing FP's while leveling up is completely counter productive. Over half the time you get a less than optimal group and you end up wasting your time when you could have made double the xp questing.

[Jason_H]

OP: "2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss."

 

People like you are the reason why places like Lost Island got nerfed. I hated that. What's wrong with content that you can't breeze through?

 

And to answer No. 2 here: Boss difficulty levels are set too high ... Wrong. The Wookie in Cademimu, the tank should be burning em down fast as they come up with the boss' flamethrower channel. Not hard. Secondly, the laser on Hammer Station, why is the healer not purging the debuff off of the tank? Why are people dying from that? The game isn't hard, it's the people who don't know the mechanics who make it hard.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jason_H

[Glorthox]

Ok then why have the tanks not be tanks?? I suffer more dmg 10 times over now than I ever had before! If they allowed tanks to be tanks, I wouldn't have such a problem with the new hardmodes. But dying from trash mobs hitting too hard is a big problem. And its because of this fact that more and more people quit being tanks and switch to dps.

[Jason_H]

Jesus, guys. This new content isn't that damn hard. Find a guild and run with them or something, quit freaking pugging. Do you not remember this from Vanilla? It's like we're starting over. In about two months, once we have all the gear, we'll be storming through content like we was before. Just like vanilla, when even BT HM was freaking a challenge, we ALL gotta learn to start CC'n again. If you CC, you won't wipe. Period. This crap isn't hard -- and for God's sake, quit asking for nerfs. Edited April 20, 2013 by Jason_H

[Thundergulch]

Ok then why have the tanks not be tanks?? I suffer more dmg 10 times over now than I ever had before! If they allowed tanks to be tanks, I wouldn't have such a problem with the new hardmodes. But dying from trash mobs hitting too hard is a big problem. And its because of this fact that more and more people quit being tanks and switch to dps.

 

You need to stop crying about FP's, really, it's getting old.... My alt is a Sorc... I zerg'd her to 55 in a L/M hybrid spec, she's in Tionese gear. I've NEVER EVER EVER healed with any toon in SWTOR..... got 3 guildies... they needed me to heal,I quickly respecc'd, and you know what?? Not one person died, and we finished Mandalorian Raiders in no time.

If you can't handle a frickin FP, then you might as well uninstall because you'll never run an OP.

[Lasica]

You need to stop crying about FP's, really, it's getting old.... My alt is a Sorc... I zerg'd her to 55 in a L/M hybrid spec, she's in Tionese gear. I've NEVER EVER EVER healed with any toon in SWTOR..... got 3 guildies... they needed me to heal,I quickly respecc'd, and you know what?? Not one person died, and we finished Mandalorian Raiders in no time.

If you can't handle a frickin FP, then you might as well uninstall because you'll never run an OP.

 

Nice story, but you left out the part where you healed while standing on your head juggling chainsaws with your feet.

[Thundergulch]

Nice story, but you left out the part where you healed while standing on your head juggling chainsaws with your feet.

 

Funny, you think I'm lying, I have no reason to lie.

FP's are easymode, and if you can't handle them..... well I don't know what to tell ya.

[sumuji]

OP: "2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss."

 

People like you are the reason why places like Lost Island got nerfed. I hated that. What's wrong with content that you can't breeze through?

 

And to answer No. 2 here: Boss difficulty levels are set too high ... Wrong. The Wookie in Cademimu, the tank should be burning em down fast as they come up with the boss' flamethrower channel. Not hard. Secondly, the laser on Hammer Station, why is the healer not purging the debuff off of the tank? Why are people dying from that? The game isn't hard, it's the people who don't know the mechanics who make it hard.

 

Because people aren't used to operation type tactics in a 4-man HM. There's nothing previously that required anything special other than the occasional interrupt. So yeah, for people that don't do operations there will be a learning curve. And I'm not enitrely sure it's neccessary for a 4-man either. It doesn't really hurt to add such things but you gotta remember most people totally PUG 4-mans.

[Thundergulch]

. So yeah, for people that don't do operations there will be a learning curve. .

 

That's the problem, they don't want to learn, and they don't want to work for any type of reward.

Can you imagine what these forums would be like if they ever decide to do an OP?

Edited April 20, 2013 by Thundergulch

[GuruVII]

Because people aren't used to operation type tactics in a 4-man HM. There's nothing previously that required anything special other than the occasional interrupt. So yeah, for people that don't do operations there will be a learning curve. And I'm not enitrely sure it's neccessary for a 4-man either. It doesn't really hurt to add such things but you gotta remember most people totally PUG 4-mans.

Tiny problem with that. The mechanics are almost the same as in the sm fp, FPs that are meant for players between levels 15 and 30. As such saying that they require operation type tactics is silly at best, insulting to anyone that has ever done ops at worst.

If you are not faced with the simplest of tank and spank fights you will always wipe, if you do not know the mechanics of it.

 

 

As for poor rewards. The last time I checked, the last and bonus boss drop ops level gear.

Edited April 20, 2013 by GuruVII

[Khevar]

Ok then why have the tanks not be tanks?? I suffer more dmg 10 times over now than I ever had before! If they allowed tanks to be tanks, I wouldn't have such a problem with the new hardmodes. But dying from trash mobs hitting too hard is a big problem. And its because of this fact that more and more people quit being tanks and switch to dps.

I suggest you go to your class forum and ask for advice.

 

There are many excellent tanks that post on these forums, and they can help you get better.