Power Tech is Unplayable in 2.0. Dev. Response Explaining Changes Needed

[Ottoattack]

In the beginning, I did not want to jump the gun without enough testing to conclude that Power Tech is not viable in 2.0. After I finished Mekab and an ops (about 12 hours of PvE) and did 8 lvl 55 WZ, its safe to conclude that the class is unplayable in 2.0. I primary play pyro as dps and I do tank occasionally for PvE.

 

PvE Prescriptive:

 

Wither its PvE or PvP, for pyro damage, about 50%-60% of damage was coming from Rail Shot (RS) and Combustible Gas Cylinder (CGC). CGC was cut in half and the 15% armor penetration reduction resulted in approximation 6% damage reduction on RS. It used to take me avg. 11 globals to kill an elite in 1.7. At lvl 50, when I started playing 2.0, I realized I need on avg. 16 globals to kill an elite. This may have dropped to 15 globals to burn through the same amount of HP (33K) after I got all skills at lvl 55.

 

I am not heavy PvE dps for ops, but others can tell you that regardless of what damage skill tree you are in (including hybrids), you are putting less damage than equally geared and skilled dps of most other advanced classes. On top of that, the only utility that PT bring to ops is aoe damage, which is easily substitute able.

 

Tanking is pretty much the same. No defensive skills worth a dime other than 25% shield on 2 min CD. While PT tank can fill in for a Juggernaut tank, Juggernaut is better as single target tank and sin is better as multi target tank.

 

PvP Prescriptive:

 

I played 8 PvP games at lvl 55. Needless to say that the lvl of competition at 55 WZs is currently insanely high (almost RWZ lvl), because only an elite few made it to 55 (most of my games were on Friday and Saturday).

 

I put a statistic on the last 4 out of 8 games I played. I avg. 512 damage, which is lower than what I used to avg. on 1.7. I had 39 kills and 11 killing blows, which is 28% chance to kill a target that I attacked. I used to avg between 40%-45% in 1.7. I was 5, 6, 3 and 7th in overall damage and I was 2nd on my team in damage on all 4 games. In 1.7, I was almost always top 3 damage, while leading in damage in about half the games I played. Protection numbers were up, but that was indication of higher damage put by opponents rather than anything else.

 

While I can not put a statistic on this, the time it takes to burn through a target is significantly longer, to the extent, I get ignored by healers, until I put 4-5 globals on them. This is reflected in the drop of killing blows from 40%45% down to 28%. This is primary, because the two main attacks that pressure on target (and provide the burst) have been nerfed (RS and TD). On top sustained damage damage builder, CGC, was cut in half.

 

Conclusion:

 

PvE, PT puts less damage than most other classes and have no utility in PvE as dps. Tank, is pretty much the same, which is the best in nothing, but overall reasonable. Why would a PT be taken into an ops, especially as a dps (DEV EXPLANATION REQUIRED)?

 

PvP, while PT has some utility (grapple and taunts), the class has the weakest survive-ability among dps classes. What gave the class value is the damage output; the ability to put pressure on healers and high priority enemy dps. Now, every other dps class has been buffed (for some significantly), while pyro damage has been reduced between 20%-25% and all of it in the burst section. AP, is still were it was in 1.7, which is nowhere. Tank is slightly better for PvP, due to slows, but still not comparable to the utilities and defensive capabilities of a Juggernaut or a sin. Again DEV EXPLANATION REQUIRED, why would anyone consider a dps PT over most other classes that have superior burst damage, sustained damage and survive-ability?

 

I have already started seeing a lot less PTs in PvP (they were not many to begin with). Soon, they will be extinct.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Brunner_Venda]

This is an excellent point - thank you for sharing. I thought I'd respond before Bioware deletes this.

 

Is anyone else having serious problems with a PT pyro running a Heroic-2 - where you never do with any other class? Sent's wreck them. My pyro gets stomped, where in 1.7 he did fine.

 

I guess it's time to unsubscribe for awhile and play something else, I can't see paying Bioware more money for this.

[vandrhal]

totally agree with u , yesterday we did the new opé and i was near do die when i saw my dps on parser.

i m 55

got load of gear 69 ( with 63 blindage to keep set bonus up )

got a 66 gun with mod and soph 69

using the hybrid spé 8/22/16 its the one who look aviable for the moment

 

i was out classed by commando , gunslinder

 

why did they nerf cgc like hell , can u give us a good explain what will be great

 

ps ( dont speak again the post who give parser for all class he was update the 25th march )

and dev change VG and PW 1 week before the patch 2.0 come up

[JimmyTheCannon]

This is an excellent point - thank you for sharing. I thought I'd respond before Bioware deletes this.

 

Is anyone else having serious problems with a PT pyro running a Heroic-2 - where you never do with any other class? Sent's wreck them. My pyro gets stomped, where in 1.7 he did fine.

 

I guess it's time to unsubscribe for awhile and play something else, I can't see paying Bioware more money for this.

 

I assume you're talking about soloing Heroic 2s - which aren't intended to be soloed?

[Kegparty]

completely agree on the PVP side of things. burst gone

[SafeJungleFever]

My van and my commando used to be neck and neck DPS-wise, not so much anymore. The Devs won't respond, though. That's not how they roll. Van is going back to dedicated tank.

 

On the other hand, a scoundrel in my guild just DPSed in TfB and was 2nd in our group. Very cool to see some classes get love.

[bbare]

Yep, the powertech needed a small nerf. They were actually a little ahead of everyone else on the PTS from a pve dps perspective. However, they didn't need the complete destruction they got.

[yoomazir]

AlI see a lot of PTs QQing about the pyro nerf, but I was wondering have they even tried AP? So far, I'm quite happy on my Vanguard. Edited April 15, 2013 by yoomazir

[Brunner_Venda]

Yes, I tried AP. The rotation took a little practice, but I got it. You have to retrain yourself not to mash rail when it's up!

 

Problem is, the damage on the spec is nowhere near where it should be, and let's be honest - it never was.

 

Immolate should hurt just a little more for the amazing animation, and prototype flame thrower was a sadly underwhelming ability compared to PPA.

 

Bioware had the chance to adjust this spec, but they chose not to. I'll still run with it though, because with rebounder and braced armor in the spec, it's at least more survivable.

[dcgregorya]

Conclusion:

 

PvE, PT puts less damage than most other classes and have no utility in PvE as dps. Tank, is pretty much the same, which is the best in nothing, but overall reasonable. Why would a PT be taken into an ops, especially as a dps (DEV EXPLANATION REQUIRED)?

 

They are fine as tanks. They are fine as DPS. They are no longer *THE BEST* as DPS. Working as intended.

 

PvP, while PT has some utility (grapple and taunts), the class has the weakest survive-ability among dps classes. What gave the class value is the damage output; the ability to put pressure on healers and high priority enemy dps. Now, every other dps class has been buffed (for some significantly), while pyro damage has been reduced between 20%-25% and all of it in the burst section. AP, is still were it was in 1.7, which is nowhere. Tank is slightly better for PvP, due to slows, but still not comparable to the utilities and defensive capabilities of a Juggernaut or a sin. Again DEV EXPLANATION REQUIRED, why would anyone consider a dps PT over most other classes that have superior burst damage, sustained damage and survive-ability?

 

They most certainly do not have the worst survivability. What gave the class its value was being silly easy, 4 button rotation for 500k damage. They're still good, and still easy, just not as bursty as before. Working as intended.

 

I have already started seeing a lot less PTs in PvP (they were not many to begin with). Soon, they will be extinct.

 

Responses above.

[ausmisc]

Sad things is the devs might even follow this same moronic line of thinking.

[JimmyTheCannon]

Yes, I tried AP. The rotation took a little practice, but I got it. You have to retrain yourself not to mash rail when it's up!

 

Well, with the 2.0 changes as long as you're using Rocket Punch on cooldown you pretty much can.

[KainrycKarr]

Responses above.

 

Sorry, but your responses are very lacking in detail. Elaborate.

[oakamp]

Dev wont come to this forum, neither does other BW employees.

[rex_okelly]

yeah Powertech is looking so nerfed atm that it isnt even viable.

 

that being said people used to call operative dps in pve "unviable" blah blah blah and i personaly found that any dps in anyclass played properly was completly viable jst some took more work

 

my main is PT pyro name Seth'oth i have had multiple TORparse top parses i know how to play it very well after about 8 hours of 55 play i had the rotation down very well yet when i logged to my maruader(my old main) i could actually parse higher at lvl 50 in both annhilation and carnage then my powertech could at 55.

 

i will most likley just go back to marauder if powertech isnt fixed but i have found this insane nerf to be rediculious i love my powertech and want to keep playing it but if i cant even put out viable damage with a neer perfect rotation then whats the dam point.

 

i personly dont care if they make powertech as amazing as it used to be for pve/pvp i jsut want it to be viable again so i can play it without feeling like i am usless to my raid group

[rex_okelly]

Pre 2.0 raiding

http://www.torparse.com/a/158850

 

At 2.0 training dummy

http://www.torparse.com/a/181611

[Aetrus]

Responses above.

 

They weren't the best at DPS, and if you think so you're bad. Snipers posted similar numbers, it was just harder to do than a Pyrotech, and Marauders have always posted higher. In addition to having better utility and defensive CDs. And yes, Pyrotechs have the worst survivability of any class. If you're going to spout BS, at least do something more than say 'Nu-uh!' We have one defensive CD on a 2 minute cooldown (and it isn't even amazing), yet the overwhelming majority of our damage has to be done within 10m. Sorcs are pretty squishy in their light armor, but they have their Bubble, Bubblestun, Electric Bindings root, Force Barrier, multiple other slows/CCs, and can deal all their damage from 30-35m away.

[LovarBoy]

I question myself how could BioWare nerf the PT in this amount and buff the ****** Sorcerer in the other way? It's horrible, I totally hate them. Sorcerer & Sages - a trillion CC's and the shield, the heals... no comment.

[skullkandy]

i'm about to be one of those guys I hate who really has nothing to contribute but replies anyway....

 

I love when people use the word "unplayable" in mmos, cracks me up good.

[TheronFett]

Stop the QQ train for a moment.

 

1) Powertech was never designed to have insane burst. It's been said from the beginning, and they have slowly nerfed it over time (first with proc changes, then range nerf, and now abilities). The simple 4-button pwnage days are over. You can continue to whine about it, adapt with the class changes, or re-roll as a burst class such as Carnage Marauder or Marksman Sniper. This is a fact, and there's no getting around it. No amount of missing the good old days are going to change this.

 

2) Max level has increased to 55. Your stats are going to go down 2-3% with each level beyond 50 to make room for the new tiers of gear. If you like your currently optimized gear, then don't level up. Otherwise, be prepared to gain more HP/main stat...but see other stats like crit and surge decrease until you get new gear.

 

3) The class is not unplayable. For one, Shieldtech is boss in PvP now that tanking stats apply to all damage. Some of us hoped this day would finally come, and opted for the Supercommando gear while others focused on DPS gear. While others are getting burned down in 3 GCD, I'm nearly invincible. No, you're not going to smoke everyone on the field as a Shieldtech, but it's hella fun to play. Pyro is still okay as well. The burst is mostly gone, but you can still put up huge damage numbers. AP still needs work IMHO.

[dijskykiller]

Powertech is viable. Pyros got nerfed because CGC is too OP. The cylinder is contributing too much damage making pyros pre-2.0 reach high damage as a single-target spec with low skill cap. Devs made it clear now that pyro is more of a dot spec than burst. AP is a better choice if you like instant damage that does not rely on dots.

 

About time for pyro players to get out of the box and use more keyboard keys.

[Jayshames]

I still know a few PT's who don't mind the changes, hell I even had someone in my guild not even realise there was a 'nerf'

 

All I can say is, your damage was pretty OP for a while and I don't remember seeing one post from a PT saying so, but when you get nerfed you're all quick to make threads about how unfair things are. Obviously all classes should be different, but I do believe all classes should be pretty much similar. That being said, what goes around comes around

[DarthWoad]

The damage was perfectly fine, and it was meant to have high burst considering it has next to no defensive cooldowns. 2.0 totally ruined powertechs

[Ottoattack]

Powertech is viable. Pyros got nerfed because CGC is too OP. The cylinder is contributing too much damage making pyros pre-2.0 reach high damage as a single-target spec with low skill cap. Devs made it clear now that pyro is more of a dot spec than burst. AP is a better choice if you like instant damage that does not rely on dots.

 

About time for pyro players to get out of the box and use more keyboard keys.

 

I am not complaining about skill cap or complexity. I also would not have minded if they changed the rotation (made it more complex) as long as the damage output stayed within the same level. Mind you I played 6 classes and they all have 4-5 buttons to press constantly, 5-6 buttons on occasion, and 10-12 buttons every 1-2 mins, and that's about it. What happened is PT rotation is pretty much the same plus shoulder cannon that hits like wet noodles, while the damage output was cut by 25% and burst be 50%.

 

AP damage PvE wise is reasonable, but too much emphasis on flame thrower, which is terrible for PvP and the damage output is still below most other dps classes.

 

Dps sniper, marauder, juggernaut, sorc, deception sin and arguably operatives, all have superior defensive capabilities and/or utility (for some classes both) and also superior damage output in both burst and sustained damage, when played to full potential. Why would PT be brought in RWZ or Ops instead of any of the above?

Edited April 18, 2013 by Ottoattack

[dijskykiller]

AP damage PvE wise is reasonable, but too much emphasis on flame thrower, which is terrible for PvP and the damage output is still below most other dps classes.

 

Dps sniper, marauder, juggernaut, sorc, deception sin and arguably operatives, all have superior defensive capabilities and/or utility (for some classes both) and also superior damage output in both burst and sustained damage, when played to full potential. Why would PT be brought in RWZ or Ops instead of any of the above?

 

I would have to disagree, AP's damage output is more than viable. Only reason you see it like that is coz you are always thinking of 1 target, which is unlikely in rateds and ops except from boss fights without adds. I've ran rated games with my AP post-2.0, and was able to top damage at 900k with sniper and smash jugg in my team. Heck, I even reach 1m damage in regular warzones with AP and that's not viable?

 

I know PFT is hard to set-up, but that's how smash works too. Ours are just a little harder due to the channel but we have a snare for team-play.

Edited April 18, 2013 by dijskykiller