Is the Empire really driven that far back?

[stormdrakelord]

The balmorran government didn't join the Empire.

 

I never said a thing about the Balmorran government, did I? I was talking about the people of Balmorra, which is like on Corellia, the Citizens fought back against the Empire, and did not join the Sith crazies.

[Jaigen]

The better question is this:

 

 

what is darth marr planning with the isotope 5 stuff, he is awfully vague about his plans

 

[Axe_Faktor]

We are in "A new hope" territory still. The empire will strike back soon. Empire won big on Makeb. It got the planet and the Isotope-5. Republic got a bunch of refugees and a dubious alliances with surviving Hutts.

 

^^^Ch. 1, 2, and 3 are ANH Good Guys Win. I would bet Ch. 4, 5 and 6 will be ESB culminating in 6 with the return of the Silent Emperor. Then (assuming the game survives this long, which I sincerely hope it does) 7, 8, 9 will likely start with a small victory for the Republic, followed by a seemingly unbeatable turnabout in favor of the Empire, finishing with an against all odds victory for the Pubs, a la RotJ.

 

Hopefully at some point in the story, the individual classes will get their own stories again (I'm looking at you chapter 5, a.k.a Luke visits Yoda, Han flees the Empire, Boba Fett hunts Han, Vader set's trap for Luke <-----Separate class stories)

 

My 2 cents.

[GigasDK]

In the end, that's why being the Bounty Hunter is the best. You don't really have to care. Personally, I like that the Empire pays better, and working with Darth Marr is a ton of fun, but my BH still isn't attached at the hip to the empire and will burn any Sith to the ground who tries to mess with him (Looking at you, Tormen.)

[Onyxus]

Lol you can imagine the next operation/Flashpoint: Darth Marr betrays the Empire!

 

I would just not play that ops/fp, ever

 

They better not kill him off hes too awesome

[Astarica]

I never said a thing about the Balmorran government, did I? I was talking about the people of Balmorra, which is like on Corellia, the Citizens fought back against the Empire, and did not join the Sith crazies.

 

This isn't real life. What the citizens think doesn't matter when you're in a world ruled by guys who can just shooting lightning or force choke you across a hologram. In the Corellia version of Empire you can say stuff like 'serve the Empire or get crushed like a bug' after you conquered Corellia and the citizens will still cheer for you, and why shouldn't they be cheering? Serving the Empire still beats getting crushed like a bug. The story never attempted to say which side the people of Corellia are on, and frankly it doesn't matter because what's important is that CorSec is anti-Empire and they're supposed to be some kind of elite fighting force, along with the Green Jedis.

 

Balmorra's got nothing like that. At its point in the storyline, Balmorra is basically crushed by a promising apprentice/newbie Bounty Hunter/newbie Agent, and there's nothing weird about this. Grand Marshal whatever pulled in some favors to get a single Jedi Knight to help. That roughly explains how pathetic the level of resistance is on Balmorra. It's an open question why if one Jedi Knight is all the resistance can manage, then why did it take so long to bring Balmorra under imperial rule but the point is that just because the citizens of Balmorra don't like Empire doesn't mean very much, and it'd stay that way until the Republic heroes arrived to help. If you look at the lore from both sides, the Empire treated CorSec as a serious threat that required the aid of the hero to do. Whereas when the player is on Balmorra, it's mostly along the lines of 'we can't seem to get across a bunch of farmers using blasters, can you help?'

[stormdrakelord]

This isn't real life. What the citizens think doesn't matter when you're in a world ruled by guys who can just shooting lightning or force choke you across a hologram. In the Corellia version of Empire you can say stuff like 'serve the Empire or get crushed like a bug' after you conquered Corellia and the citizens will still cheer for you, and why shouldn't they be cheering? Serving the Empire still beats getting crushed like a bug. The story never attempted to say which side the people of Corellia are on, and frankly it doesn't matter because what's important is that CorSec is anti-Empire and they're supposed to be some kind of elite fighting force, along with the Green Jedis.

 

Balmorra's got nothing like that. At its point in the storyline, Balmorra is basically crushed by a promising apprentice/newbie Bounty Hunter/newbie Agent, and there's nothing weird about this. Grand Marshal whatever pulled in some favors to get a single Jedi Knight to help. That roughly explains how pathetic the level of resistance is on Balmorra. It's an open question why if one Jedi Knight is all the resistance can manage, then why did it take so long to bring Balmorra under imperial rule but the point is that just because the citizens of Balmorra don't like Empire doesn't mean very much, and it'd stay that way until the Republic heroes arrived to help. If you look at the lore from both sides, the Empire treated CorSec as a serious threat that required the aid of the hero to do. Whereas when the player is on Balmorra, it's mostly along the lines of 'we can't seem to get across a bunch of farmers using blasters, can you help?'

 

well it is kind of part of the story they lose Balmorra and Corellia

[ryanthedark]

Are you entirely sure, though? It isn't ever specifically said what happened after we leave the ship. For all we know, he could have escaped, bribed, had inside agents there,, etc.. I tend to believe that if in any option he lives, especially considering that they even give you the option to "join" him, that he's intended to live, but just be out of the plot for the time being.

 

It just depends on whether the writers find a reason to have him return to the plot at any point or not.

 

But in the end we lose anyways. Coz Darth Bane kills of our beloved empire and goes into hiding. sob

[platinumruggo]

The reason the Sith Empire were so successful during the Great Galactic War, and utterly implode on themselves during the Cold War is because, as Malgus says: The Empire is war made manifest.

 

Sith thrive on war, and languish in peace. During the war they had something to focus themselves, something to rally behind, hatred for the Republic and the Jedi. The Sith have no time to squabble with each other and conduct petty power-plays because their too busy fighting a war. Certainly no time to establish your own miniature Empire. And really there's no need to, want to move up in the Sith hierarchy? Win some battles against the Republic, slaughter some Jedi, capture some planets, you'll quickly win favour with your superiors and be on the Dark Council before you know it. Want to gain your own territory? The Republic encompasses thousands and thousands of star systems, take your pick! Not the mention the fact that with Sith dying left right and center (although not as swiftly as Jedi) power vacuums are opening up constantly, and are quickly filled by those eager Sith looking to climb the ladder. The same applies for those outside the Sith hierarchy, they have a entire galaxy spanning government ripe for the trashing if they want to gain some brownie points.

 

We also have the consider the huge impact that the Mandalorian blockade had on the war effort, in which the Republic actually considered surrendering to the Sith. We also have to consider that ultimately the Republic were not prepared for war, whereas the Sith were more the ready and better equipped, there ships are better, their soldiers are better, and Sith are more effective at killing than Jedi. In such a sense the always remained several steps ahead and by the time the Republic had properly organised itself, the Sith had already conquered a third of the galaxy. And finally, Imperial Intelligence, which outclasses SIS (who hadn't even been properly established with the outbreak of war) in every way.

 

But now, in a Cold War were the conflict had subsided, the Sith have grown restless. Not only do they yearn for conflict but they suddenly have found it increasingly difficult to impress their superiors and rise up the ranks. Instead they resort to internal infighting and backstabbing. Over a decade this becomes the norm and the Empire is plunged into chaos. On the other hand the Republic have a chance to lick their wounds, recover in a peace time climate. So when war breaks out again, the Republic (no longer unprepared and unawares) strike back hard and the Empire falter.

 

So really all the Empire needs is a refocusing to get back on track again and start winning this war!

 

How does Intelligence outclass SIS? I'm just curious, not trying to make fun or anything.

[momentDroid]

How does Intelligence outclass SIS? I'm just curious, not trying to make fun or anything.

The Empire has been preparing for war for probably a thousand years.

Like what Darth Malgus said the Empire is a war made manifest, almost the entire population is prepped to go too war. We most likely had agents in SIS ranks to lay out the foundation for there return as well.

[Fordel]

The SIS is smaller (and/or the republic is bigger) and doesn't have absolute penetration in all aspects of Republic life the way Imperial Intelligence does with it's own citizens. Imp Intelligence also has a few centuries of head start in the war between the two.

 

Of course ImpInt has hit some sangs recently.

[Beniboybling]

How does Intelligence outclass SIS? I'm just curious, not trying to make fun or anything.

Simply put, they are just better in every respect. Bigger, more organised, better trained, better sources, more resources, more influence etc. etc. I'd expect this is because of the nature of the Empire, its an authoritarian state so naturally some sort of Intelligence network/secret police is going to develop. Whereas in a democracy such a network would be brought into constant question, would have to follow the restrictive laws of the Republic, and could only really be justified in times of war.

 

This is evident if we look at their history:

 

The SIS started off in 3,681 BBY, roughly 40 years before the Great Galactic War, as a monitoring and decryption arm in the Senate Library. With the onset of war the Galactic Senate were prompted to shift the group into a fully-fledged information and espionage bureau.

 

Imperial Intelligence has been active long before the Great Galactic War began, and although their is no solid evidence to its origins rumors point to it forming sometime around 4,900 BBY.

 

Imperial Intelligence is simply more well established and operates more effectively under an Imperial government - hope that was informative.

[Denatharion]

What I wonder about is when will the Mandalorians get more screen time and for that matter what about the Chiss Ascendancy? Aside from a few Chiss on Hoth we havent seem much about them..

[Hirilonde]

I see the story as a back and forth, a way to keep the struggle interesting.

 

At the start of most storylines, the Empire is on top. The Republic is struggling to rebuild, even decades after the war, insurrections and local civil wars plague it... Even on Coruscant, they've lost control of whole planetary sectors to gangs and paramilitary groups. Even Ord Mantel, the seat of the Republic military, can barely fend of Separatist attacks.

 

Slowly, the Republic regroups. Taris is their first attempt to build morale... a backwater mudball in the middle of nowhere the Sith once razed. Rebuilding it is symbolic. They make some progress before the Sith show up and kick over their sandcastle.

 

But at the same time, the Balmorran resistance finally gets some traction, and kicks the Imperials off the planet. The war starts to kick off. Initially, the Imperials try and be cute... drag the Republic to backwater conflicts like Hoth or Belsavis, get them to waste their strength on meaningless battles... and get mired in them themselves. Voss was a weird hiccup for both sides because... well, Voss is weird.

 

Corellia was really the first big battle of the war. It illustrated both the lack of confidence many Republic member planets still had in the Republic, and the extent that Sith would co-opt incredibly vital battlegrounds and forces for their own power plays. Both Baras and Thanaton wasted tremendous resources in their domestic squabbles with their subordinates.

 

The end result of Corellia was both sides losing huge resources, Corellia left in smoking ruin (But probably not as irreparably as the Empire would hope). The Empire gets rocked back, falls back to the whole 'Superweapon' strategy, making a play for the Adegan crystals on Ilum (cloaked fleet). Of course, one Jedi quite rightly points out why this is a stupid strategy, as after all the resources and effort are poured into developing this superweapon, the Empire never gets their money's worth before the Republic either devises a counter, or drops a proton torpedo down a ventilation shaft on it.

 

In the end, neither needed to happen, as Malgus got impatient, and absconded with what had to be a sizeable portion of the Imperial forces. That whole mess was another Corellia for the Empire, while the Republic more or less walked away with a free win. The Republic by this point has built up some serious momentum, and is starting to steamroll the Imperials pretty hard.

 

Makeb is the start of things swinging the other way. Darth Marr has stepped into the vacuum, and while he appears to be a reformist like Malgus, he possesses the patience and ability to play the politics that Malgus lacked. Makeb is a big win for the Empire, but it's not going into Superweapons, but into bolstering their defenses, and preparing for the oncoming Republic onslaught, and weather it well enough to find their own right time to hit back, wait for the Republic to overextend themselves.

 

I imagine the Emperor himself has permanently lost his grip on the Empire. If he returns, it will be as another raid boss that both the Imperials and Republic get to face down (He's an omnicidal maniac on a galactic scale, and just this side of an eldrich abomination, who seeks to consume BOTH sides. Even the Imperials can't support that kind of evil)

[Quellryloth]

How does Intelligence outclass SIS? I'm just curious, not trying to make fun or anything.

They arguably get more resources, but, more importantly, they do not allow the ethical implications of a method to deter them from using it. For example, even leaving aside the frequent use of torture, they are perfectly comfortable with truth serum (see Jedi Knight storyline), outright mind control and genetically engineering analysts who are brilliant, but... well, play the Imperial Agent storyline and see. The Republic doesn't have this kind of technology because for the most part, it is reluctant to officially condone evil. Some individuals from the SIS do use such means (ironically, when they are provided by Imperial Intelligence), but it's halfhearted at best and doesn't work out well.

 

All of that said, if you play the Imperial Agent, you'll see how their ruthlessness can hilariously backfire and... let's just say that Imperial Intelligence outclassing the SIS at the end of the story is a rather debatable statement.

[Beniboybling]

What I wonder about is when will the Mandalorians get more screen time and for that matter what about the Chiss Ascendancy? Aside from a few Chiss on Hoth we havent seem much about them..

Completely agree with you on the Mandalorian point. Now I'm no Fandalorian but I think the Mando's have been throughly neglected from both an in and out of universe perspective. I mean, come on Imperials, you've got a whole army of Mando's at your disposal, use them!

I imagine the Emperor himself has permanently lost his grip on the Empire. If he returns, it will be as another raid boss that both the Imperials and Republic get to face down (He's an omnicidal maniac on a galactic scale, and just this side of an eldrich abomination, who seeks to consume BOTH sides. Even the Imperials can't support that kind of evil)

I'm just gonna say it here, I am entirely opposed to the notion of the Emperor being reduced to a raid boss, I think it would just undermine and depreciate the character he is, as well as the important role he plays in the story. Excluding that plot line from players who came for the story pillar (me )

 

I think it would be a far better idea to make him the focal point of a new expansion, preferably one that introduces a new planet. Like with Makeb, the Republic and the Empire would be faced with a common enemy, though with different objectives. How will this come about? Well if BioWare choose to follow the line that the Emperor is bodily dead, they could have him possess someone or another, or become something like Sel-Makor - then rampage.

[ReiKai]

Well that's one thing. Towards the end of the Sith Warrior storyline, the Hand were on the move looking for a new vessel for the Emperor's Voice. They may end up resurrecting the Emperor completely in a new body, either one we haven't seen yet or one of the Children of the Emperor who weren't killed off. And while I agree I wouldn't want to see Vitiate (The Emperor) as some raid boss, I would like to see him be part of a Joint Class Story.

 

Like the Sith Warrior and Inquisitor both reach a point where their stories converge around the Emperor. Perhaps working to restore him or, discovering the plans he had attempted before, work to prevent his reincarnation in order to keep him from wiping out all life in the galaxy. And after which, their stories separate and they each choose separately how to handle the aftermath or their working together. Like, will the Warrior continue to be the Wrath or find some other path? And will the Inquisitor take the remnants of the Emperor's power and proclaim himself the New Emperor or work with Marr and the Dark Council to keep the Empire from fracturing once again and drive back the Republic.

[Gurluas]

I think the Empire may eventually win, and then later be reformed into a new Republic by ousting the Sith, possibly with the help of reformers like:

The Light Side Sith Warrior and Jaesa Wilsaam.

 

The logo of the Republic in the Prequel hints to this, as it was VERY similar to the Sith Empire logo.

[Beniboybling]

The logo of the Republic in the Prequel hints to this, as it was VERY similar to the Sith Empire logo.

Hmmmm, I wouldn't give this too much weight. The developers at BioWare have obviously drawn inspiration for various aesthetics from the movies. For example the Republic insignia looks quite similar to the insignia of the Rebel Alliance - yet they are not linked.

 

And I'm not sure the Sith insignia even looks that similar to the prequel Republic insignia. Seems to be more based on the insignia of the Galactic Empire is anything.

 

I therefore doubt it was intentional, lets also remember that like flags on our planet, insignia in the Star Wars universe will have some similarities. Regardless, what your suggesting could happen, I'd rather a complete Sith takeover though really. Not because I'm an Imp-fan (which I am) but because it would fill a lot of plot holes.

[Aurbere]

Not because I'm an Imp-fan (which I am) but because it would fill a lot of plot holes.

 

If you are referring to the 'once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy' comment, that is most likely in reference to Darth Ruin.

 

As for the 'Republic that has stood for over a thousand years' comment. That is referring to the Ruusan Reformation, as the Republic was reformed (as the title suggests). Which would also explain why Sio Bibble says 'there hasn't been a full scale war since the foundation of the Republic.'

 

Edit: Yup, I was right. The Ruusan Reformation was introduced by authors to explain those comments.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

If you are referring to the 'once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy' comment, that is most likely in reference to Darth Ruin.

 

As for the 'Republic that has stood for over a thousand years' comment. That is referring to the Ruusan Reformation, as the Republic was reformed (as the title suggests). Which would also explain why Sio Bibble says 'there hasn't been a full scale war since the foundation of the Republic.'

 

Edit: Yup, I was right. The Ruusan Reformation was introduced by authors to explain those comments.

Yup, however while this may be a reference to Darth Ruin it is hardly set in stone, nor did Ruin actually ever rule the entire galaxy, just a portion of it. I also doubt he ever took Coruscant or many if any of the Core Worlds given the fact that the Republic was still around... so that's not really ruling the galaxy.

 

But I'm not talking about the other quote, but the technological Dark Ages the Republic seemed to be in during and leading up to and before the New Sith Wars. I mean it looked like something out of the medieval era. There must be a reason. The Republic simply could have not stood for another 1,000 years, their technology is far to advanced in comparison.

[Aurbere]

Yup, however while this may be a reference to Darth Ruin it is hardly set in stone, nor did Ruin actually ever rule the entire galaxy, just a portion of it. I also doubt he ever took Coruscant or many if any of the Core Worlds given the fact that the Republic was still around... so that's not really ruling the galaxy.

 

But I'm not talking about the other quote, but the technological Dark Ages the Republic seemed to be in during and leading up to and before the New Sith Wars. I mean it looked like something out of the medieval era. There must be a reason. The Republic simply could have not stood for another 1,000 years, their technology is far to advanced in comparison.

 

That is explained by the Draggulch Period or the early times of the New Sith Wars. A point in time when the Republic ceased to exist in comparison to later centuries. Basically, the Republic abandoned countless worlds to the Sith, companies went bankrupt, etc.

 

This most likely explains the technological discrepancies.

 

Edit: Thought that I might expand on this. Early on in the war (early being subjective), both sides were near collapse. The Republic couldn't maintain the holonet outside of the Core, and galactic commerce had slowed down to a crawl, or even ceased. I believe this explains the technological discrepancies in the Light and Darkness War.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

That is explained by the Draggulch Period or the early times of the New Sith Wars. A point in time when the Republic ceased to exist in comparison to later centuries. Basically, the Republic abandoned countless worlds to the Sith, companies went bankrupt, etc.

 

This most likely explains the technological discrepancies.

Losing a war does not throw you back several thousands years technologically, the 'blueprints' are still there, the technology as still been discovered and invented, only a complete devastation of civilization could possible achieve that. For example if some power destroyed all our nuclear weapons testing plants, we'd still have the knowledge of how to create nuclear weapons.

 

Now you could say they simply don't have the resources, but if this is the case, how is it that the Sith are in the same position? Using the same technology?

[Aurbere]

Losing a war does not throw you back several thousands years technologically, the 'blueprints' are still there, the technology as still been discovered and invented, only a complete devastation of civilization could possible achieve that. For example if some power destroyed all our nuclear weapons testing plants, we'd still have the knowledge of how to create nuclear weapons.

 

Now you could say they simply don't have the resources, but if this is the case, how is it that the Sith are in the same position? Using the same technology?

 

You need money to make impressive starships and weapons. Both sides had suffered economic collapse. It's not the same as having something destroyed. Both sides had seen economic collapse. They may have the ability to produce these things, but they don't have the resources to do it.

 

Basically, the Republic had nothing going for them, and the Sith Empire had all but collapsed. Most of the former Republic territory was split between Sith warlords, who then squabbled for more territory. The Republic tried to take these worlds back, but, for the most part, left them alone.

 

Simply put, the galaxy was in a dark time. You can say that it was the possible victory of the Sith Empire in TOR that contributed to this, but then I don't remember the New Republic suffering from these overwhelming economic troubles, despite suffering from a pretty long war, and then periodic war.

[Beniboybling]

You need money to make impressive starships and weapons. Both sides had suffered economic collapse. It's not the same as having something destroyed. Both sides had seen economic collapse. They may have the ability to produce these things, but they don't have the resources to do it.

 

Basically, the Republic had nothing going for them, and the Sith Empire had all but collapsed. Most of the former Republic territory was split between Sith warlords, who then squabbled for more territory. The Republic tried to take these worlds back, but, for the most part, left them alone.

 

Simply put, the galaxy was in a dark time. You can say that it was the possible victory of the Sith Empire in TOR that contributed to this, but then I don't remember the New Republic suffering from these overwhelming economic troubles, despite suffering from a pretty long war, and then periodic war.

There is a difference cheap and unimpressive and just plain backward. I mean if we were at war with whoever and went into economic collapse do you think we've revert to fighting with swords, halberds and maces? And started smelting armour and shields? No, we would fight with guns and modern combat gear, but equipment would simply be scarce. We don't have the means to effectively produce centuries old technology because as it has become outdated, the machinery used to create it has been replaced.

 

Therefore an economic collapse in the Republic should not have led to a technological retreat, but rather a scarcity in armaments. For example the Kuat Shipyards of the Empire era do not have the capabilities to produce Sith warships of the Great Hyperspace War. However if civilization was all but decimated, we'd be force to start from scratch and with limited resources and information believable would revert to spears and arrows etc. and develop from there.

 

Also, the Sith Empire were not always squabbling and fighting, else they never would have been able to score such decisive victories against the Republic. Indeed at times they were very much unified and conquered large portions of the galaxy, with armaments, resources, shipyards etc. And even if they did split into warring factions, they'd still possess that technology and those capabilities, but supply would be divided.

 

P.S. A Sith victory would not necessarily lead to this, mutual destruction however would.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Beniboybling